You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[emeryjre]

There are multiple websites with "ground breaking" technology breakthroughs in manufacturing fuel from CO2
There is always some glitch, usually high cost of material or an inordinate of energy needed to produce a kilo of synfuel
The same with Hydrogen, The miracle fuel for ages. Still takes more energy to produce a kilo of hydrogen than is returned in the end
The technology to produce a kilo of Lithium from Brine has been heavily touted for at least 5 years
So far it has not worked out economically
One of these days a lab breakthrough will come through and produce an energy source cheaper than what we have today
Fusion Energy maybe the one to work first
Who knows
But for today, EVs and hybrids are producing more miles per dollar spent with less emissions than ever before
Solar and wind are producing increasing amounts of electricity every year
Battery technology for vehicles and system storage is evolving daily
The costs are dropping regularly
New industries will evolve
Other industries will fade away
There will be winners
There will be losers

 

[easyrider]

I hear you - and that's certainly better than nothing - but given batteries are 95% recyclable and the rest of the vehicle has far fewer moving parts, over time the simplicity and corresponding superior reliability of BEVs will win out - it's simply a question of when IMHO. I realize this may not be the 100% the case today, but it will increasingly become the case over time as battery tech improves and motor efficiency and reliability improve.

It definitely is a front runner technology. If and when the weight and charging time problems are figured out, and if or when the technology can be used to replace all transportation needs , then it could be the real thing instead of a niche thing. It's still iffy and when isn't now. Other technologies could usurp ev's very easily. Tesla is likely to be the company that creates the product that eliminates the current EV as we know it. Maybe they have already figured out the sci-fi type hover car. Someone mentioned this elsewhere and it is an intriguing concept.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

There are multiple websites with "ground breaking" technology breakthroughs in manufacturing fuel from CO2
There is always some glitch, usually high cost of material or an inordinate of energy needed to produce a kilo of synfuel
The same with Hydrogen, The miracle fuel for ages. Still takes more energy to produce a kilo of hydrogen than is returned in the end
The technology to produce a kilo of Lithium from Brine has been heavily touted for at least 5 years
So far it has not worked out economically
One of these days a lab breakthrough will come through and produce an energy source cheaper than what we have today
Fusion Energy maybe the one to work first
Who knows
But for today, EVs and hybrids are producing more miles per dollar spent with less emissions than ever before
Solar and wind are producing increasing amounts of electricity every year
Battery technology for vehicles and system storage is evolving daily
The costs are dropping regularly
New industries will evolve
Other industries will fade away
There will be winners
There will be losers

They do use Syngas in auto racing now.

Bill

How F1 plans to transition to ‘100% sustainable fuel’

Rule changes intend to make Formula One more environmentally friendly from 2026. But what are the changes, and can a sport known for gas-guzzling engines really go green?

www.chemistryworld.com

 

[emeryjre]

And what is the cost per gallon

 

[DrQ]

They do use Syngas in auto racing now.

Bill

Syngas is a case of "Ignore the man behind the curtain!"

Three of the four sources of Syngas still cause great environmental damage and you have to put in energy to create the stuff.

With oil and natural gas, we are still dealing with the environmental impacts of "Drill, baby, drill."

A West Texas lawmaker wants to redirect millions of tax dollars to plug abandoned wells, curb emissions

The proposal comes after the state’s oil and gas regulatory agency said it needs more money to plug wells that are in some instances erupting.

www.texastribune.org

The proposal comes as the Railroad Commission told state lawmakers it could not afford to keep up with the expenses of plugging abandoned wells that have unexpectedly burst with briney water in the Permian Basin, which supplies 42% of the nation’s oil.​

​

In November, the agency asked for an additional $100 million — almost half of its entire two-year budget. Danny Sorrells, the commission’s executive director, said in a letter that the agency's $226 million budget was not enough to address the growing cost of plugging leaking and erupting wells in the state’s oil fields.​

 

[easyrider]

Three of the four sources of Syngas still cause great environmental damage and you have to put in energy to create the stuff.

I'm not an EV or Syngas expert but the environmental damages caused by ev's are well documented. Even if they used biomass to make Syngas I'm certain it comes with problems. It seems like everything does.

And what is the cost per gallon

I heard about $40 a gallon and a formula car gets about 4 mpg's while racing. Estimates range from $1.50 to $2.50 per gallon if it were produced by a large industrial type refinery. Both of these statements are just chatter so take them with a gain of salt is what I think.

Bill

 

[davidvel]

I'm not an EV or Syngas expert but the environmental damages caused by ev's are well documented. Even if they used biomass to make Syngas I'm certain it comes with problems. It seems like everything does.


I heard about $40 a gallon and a formula car gets about 4 mpg's while racing. Estimates range from $1.50 to $2.50 per gallon if it were produced by a large industrial type refinery. Both of these statements are just chatter so take them with a gain of salt is what I think.

Bill

Translation: no basis in fact.

 

[emeryjre]

One of my old friends was a noted chemist
Exxon hired his employer to develop oil from Algae
One of those firms that sat up on the ridge in La Jolla
Across from the Torrey Pines Golf Course
The algae was force fed CO2 from coal/natural gas plants
Algae grew like crazy
They firm developed a great process
The problem
The oil produced was too expensive to compete in the open market when all the costs were evaluated

 

[easyrider]

One of my old friends was a noted chemist
Exxon hired his employer to develop oil from Algae
One of those firms that sat up on the ridge in La Jolla
Across from the Torrey Pines Golf Course
The algae was force fed CO2 from coal/natural gas plants
Algae grew like crazy
They firm developed a great process
The problem
The oil produced was too expensive to compete in the open market when all the costs were evaluated

It seems that the big oil companies and some automakers have teamed up to create synthetic gas at an industrial scale. There are differing methods and facilities creating this now. The facilities in Chile are backed by oil companies and are making Syngas using water, air and methanol. The facility in Peru is making Syngas using methane. Bosh already has a Syngas product ready to go and it is in use. In 2020, Porsche said it cost $37 a gallon to produce.

Bill

https://www.lincolntech.edu/news/au...synthetic-fuels-can-give-world-clean-gasoline

Bosch manufacturers a renewable synthetic fuel that is ready-to-use in existing gasoline powered vehicles. It can be used as a standalone product, or pumped right into the tank to mix with existing gasoline. Bosch creates their biofuels from waste materials that contain carbon – the source element that is converted into fuel. The result is a fuel that satisfies EU legislation due to the reduction of greenhouse gases.

Simply put, a biofuel must meet the European Union’s sustainability goals to permit use, and Bosch’s fuel meets EN-228 Standards for gasoline vehicles, and EN-590 Standards for diesel-powered vehicles. The future is here, as suggested by Bosch-Mobility when they stated “CO2 can be drawn from the atmosphere for the production of renewable synthetic fuels, which establishes a carbon-neutral cycle and a practically limitless fuel supply4.”

Porsche-backed pilot plant to produce synthetic fuel at industrial scale

Carbon-neutral synthetic fuels could see internal-combustion engines stick around for decades to come.

www.motorauthority.com

Although it's more efficient to use electricity to directly power a battery-electric car, rather than create synthetic fuel to be fed into an internal-combustion engine, plants like Haru Oni show how renewable energy can be transported to where it's needed using existing infrastructure. It also shows how renewable energy will no longer need to be produced where it’s used, but where natural resources like wind and sun are available on a massive scale.

The challenge is generating the necessary hydrogen in a manner that makes synthetic fuel commercially viable, which projects like the Haru Oni plant aim to solve. According to Porsche, synthetic fuel currently costs $10 per liter to produce, the equivalent of $37 a gallon. The goal is to get the cost to down to the level of conventionally sourced fuel.

 

[emeryjre]

If scientists can find the breakthrough that allows us to produce a carbon neutral fuel inexpensively
It will be a great day for the world
There are many extremely bright people working on finding the solution
I wish them luck and continued funding

 

[easyrider]

If scientists can find the breakthrough that allows us to produce a carbon neutral fuel inexpensively
It will be a great day for the world
There are many extremely bright people working on finding the solution
I wish them luck and continued funding

The thing about Synthetic gas is when it is manufactured at a large scale the price goes down. I remember the first Synthectic oil we used for two stroke snowmobiles and boats. It was nice because the exhaust didn't smoke that much compared to using conventional two stroke oil in the gas. It was expensive back then. Now its less expensive and pretty common.

The other thing is the oil companies are in business to sell oil and if they are forced to sell Synthetic gas they probably will. In other words, nothing much is going to change, imo.

Bill

 

[Chrispee]

Why would we want to continue to ship/truck any kind of physical fuel out all the way to the individual consumer level when we have the option to send it out via the grid? Advancements in cleaner electricity production and battery technology make it a no-brainer (if it isn't already).

 

[davidvel]

Why would we want to continue to ship/truck any kind of physical fuel out all the way to the individual consumer level when we have the option to send it out via the grid? Advancements in cleaner electricity production and battery technology make it a no-brainer (if it isn't already).

Those that want it have an inability to respond to and accept change.

 

[Brett]

Why would we want to continue to ship/truck any kind of physical fuel out all the way to the individual consumer level when we have the option to send it out via the grid? Advancements in cleaner electricity production and battery technology make it a no-brainer (if it isn't already).

It is.
But maybe some people don't have brains ..

 

[emeryjre]

Hydrogen is the ultimate green fuel
It certainly has its proponents
The problem is still the cost of producing a kilo of “green” hydrogen
Many advances
I was reading about a new at home device that will produce hydrogen at home at night using grid electricity
Trying to find more info
But nothing so far

 

[HitchHiker71]

Hydrogen is the ultimate green fuel
It certainly has its proponents
The problem is still the cost of producing a kilo of “green” hydrogen
Many advances
I was reading about a new at home device that will produce hydrogen at home at night using grid electricity
Trying to find more info
But nothing so far

The problem with hydrogen is that it takes more energy to produce it than it produces. No one has reliably been able to solve for this core issue. Same thing with fusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

Why would we want to continue to ship/truck any kind of physical fuel out all the way to the individual consumer level when we have the option to send it out via the grid? Advancements in cleaner electricity production and battery technology make it a no-brainer (if it isn't already).

I'm guessing that a percentage of car owners, maybe 40%, don't own a home where they can add a home chargers. About 34% are renters. Many homes built before 1970 were built with 100 amp power service and while technically these do have enough power to charge a car there wouldn't necessarily be room for a dedicated charging breaker.

In a perfect situation it would be a wireless charging as you drive.

The infrastructure exists for the use of Syngas. To me this seems like the best way forward because 98%+ of all vehicles on the road are ice.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Hydrogen is the ultimate green fuel
It certainly has its proponents
The problem is still the cost of producing a kilo of “green” hydrogen
Many advances
I was reading about a new at home device that will produce hydrogen at home at night using grid electricity
Trying to find more info
But nothing so far

Hydrogen would work well if there are enough nuclear plants around. Americans don't like nuclear power plants in their vicinity so I have doubts it will ever happen on an industrial scale in the USA.

Bill

https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/3-nuclear-power-plants-gearing-clean-hydrogen-production