You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[youppi]

I don't know for you in the USA but us in Canada, the majority of our stolen cars are shipped to Africa and the Middle East and this is the reason why BEV cars are way less stolen than ICE cars in Canada

 

[easyrider]

Not unless they figure out how to flatbed the vehicle and take it somewhere first to part it out. The battery packs weigh upwards of 1000lbs alone. No thief is going to be carrying off a battery pack, let alone simply dropping it out from under the vehicle itself on the street. They would need to lift up the entire vehicle itself, have something large under it to house the dropped pack, etc. It’s not anywhere even remotely similar to stealing a catalytic converter for example. Like I said - short of flatbedding the vehicle away, it’s just not going to happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It would take a little effort but a Tesla can be stolen and parted out. Interesting is a guy rented a Turo Tesla and was parting it out. Another was found in a chop shop which is the link below.

With the cost of a new battery at $20,000 and because batteries are rated by their charge capacity, it makes sense that the batteries will be targets. The GPS tracking antenna is in the housing on the front windshield so pulling this apart eliminates the tracking ability. Putting a Tesla on wheel dollies would be easy enough.

Tesla's have enough strength to just jab a forklift through the side windows and lift off the underside of the roof so it could be a really quick heist. First thing would be to disable the cameras with spray paint then break out the windshield to tear out the GPS antenna. Then the forklift puts it on a trailer. It sounds kind of low tech and very easy. I'm just guessing about this exact senario for kicks and giggles but it is possible.

Bill

https://x.com/MikeDizzll/status/1827629095397835156

 

[emeryjre]

Here is a use for your Tesla that you do not see every day

Light show using 902 Teslas

MSN

 

[Passepartout]

It would take a little effort but a Tesla can be stolen and parted out. Interesting is a guy rented a Turo Tesla and was parting it out. Another was found in a chop shop which is the link below.

With the cost of a new battery at $20,000 and because batteries are rated by their charge capacity, it makes sense that the batteries will be targets. The GPS tracking antenna is in the housing on the front windshield so pulling this apart eliminates the tracking ability. Putting a Tesla on wheel dollies would be easy enough.

Tesla's have enough strength to just jab a forklift through the side windows and lift off the underside of the roof so it could be a really quick heist. First thing would be to disable the cameras with spray paint then break out the windshield to tear out the GPS antenna. Then the forklift puts it on a trailer. It sounds kind of low tech and very easy. I'm just guessing about this exact senario for kicks and giggles but it is possible.

Bill

https://x.com/MikeDizzll/status/1827629095397835156

Bill, Is this another of your 'Get Rich Quick' off EVs schemes, like your $50 an hour profit per charger with nobody looking thing? What's next? Melt 'em down for the gold in all those electrical connectors?

 

[easyrider]

Bill, Is this another of your 'Get Rich Quick' off EVs schemes, like your $50 an hour profit per charger with nobody looking thing? What's next? Melt 'em down for the gold in all those electrical connectors?

If you had more reading comprehension skills you would have read the car theft scenario was just kicks and giggles but it does illustrate how fast and easy it would be.

The super charger facility idea is still on the table until next year. It kind of depends on the elections too. I like the idea of an automated profitable business. It's just an idea that popped into my mind while reading some of the posts on this thread.

Bill

 

[geist1223]

Maybe everybody should take a break, take a deep breath, and count to 20.

 

[davidvel]

@HitchHiker71 said Tesla's can't be stolen. The article I posted says they can be stolen. What you are now saying is all ev's have this vulnerability.

The other issue with ev's are they can be hacked at most public chargers.

Bill

https://cluballiance.aaa.com/the-extra-mile/advice/car/can-electric-cars-be-hacked

But the surge in electric car sales also provides a new opportunity for cybercriminals. Yes, electric vehicles can be hacked, and the high-tech scammers behind these cyberattacks will gladly use your EV and public charging stations to steal your personal and financial information or even disable your car or truck.

No I did not say all EV's have this vulnerability. I said any vehicle (ICE or EV) that has remote unlock/start can be accessed by someone who gains access to your login credentials. Nothing in the article is unique to EVs.

@davidvel hasn't taken into consideration is that ev's take longer to charge than to gas up and often times public EV chargers are unattended meaning it would be easier to hack a charger than a gas pump.

...

Bill

Why would I take that into consideration? It is just a wild thought of yours and has nothing to do with what I posted before. Do people hack chargers or gas pumps? They certainly put skimmers on gas pumps and people's cards are bilked for tens of millions. But as usual, none of this has anything to do with the article you posted in an attempt to make it seem stealing people's account credentials is unique to EVs.

 

[davidvel]

It would take a little effort but a Tesla can be stolen and parted out. Interesting is a guy rented a Turo Tesla and was parting it out. Another was found in a chop shop which is the link below.

With the cost of a new battery at $20,000 and because batteries are rated by their charge capacity, it makes sense that the batteries will be targets. The GPS tracking antenna is in the housing on the front windshield so pulling this apart eliminates the tracking ability. Putting a Tesla on wheel dollies would be easy enough.

Tesla's have enough strength to just jab a forklift through the side windows and lift off the underside of the roof so it could be a really quick heist. First thing would be to disable the cameras with spray paint then break out the windshield to tear out the GPS antenna. Then the forklift puts it on a trailer. It sounds kind of low tech and very easy. I'm just guessing about this exact senario for kicks and giggles but it is possible.

Bill

https://x.com/MikeDizzll/status/1827629095397835156

Any car can be stolen and parted out. Much more difficult for a Tesla or other EVs than any ICE vehicle. How come the insurance theft data do not reflect your claims that this is unique to EVs?

 

[TUGBrian]

Maybe everybody should take a break, take a deep breath, and count to 20.

or 20,000

 

[easyrider]

Any car can be stolen and parted out. Much more difficult for a Tesla or other EVs than any ICE vehicle. How come the insurance theft data do not reflect your claims that this is unique to EVs?

Remember, this was a shits and giggles scenario but the reason to target a Tesla would be the cost of the battery and that there are plenty of older Tesla needing a battery.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

After Hurricane Milton, a growing risk: Flooded electric cars going up in flames​

Jimmy Patronis, Florida’s chief financial officer and state fire marshal, issued a statement on Monday detailing a string of fires in the wake of Hurricane Helene, which flooded much of the Gulf Coast just two week ago. The state found 50,000 EV and hybrid registrations in the path of Hurricane Milton’s storm surge and counted at least 64 lithium battery fires after Hurricane Helene. EVs accounted for 17 of those but the rest were devices like scooters, hoverboards and golf carts. One fire was even sparked by an electric wheelchair.​

..​

It’s important to note that outside of salt water flooding damage, electric vehicles actually are much less of a threat to catch fire than gas vehicles. Data from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board shows that there are approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold. That’s in comparison to are approximately 1,530 fires for every 100,000 gas-powered vehicles sold.​

 

[DrQ]

Some members keep on bringing up the canard of "spontaneously combusting EVs", how about "spontaneously exploding orphan oil wells"?

“Should we be worried?”: Another well blowout in West Texas has a town smelling of rotten eggs​

Experts warn that more blowouts should be expected unless oil and gas companies change their methods.

“Should we be worried?”: Another well blowout in West Texas has a town smelling of rotten eggs

Experts warn that more blowouts should be expected unless oil and gas companies change their methods.

www.texastribune.org

It is at least the eighth time since last October that chemical water has spewed from a well in West Texas without clear ownership, according to Sarah Stogner, an oil and gas attorney who for years has documented eruptions from orphaned wells.​

​

About 4.6 million Americans live within a half mile of an often-called orphaned well, according to a 2023 study by the nonprofit Environmental Defense Fund. The Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission has tallied 140,000 documented orphaned wells in the U.S. in 2024 report — 9,313 are in Texas. And the Permian Basin, which includes 61 West Texas counties, is filled with “all these ticking time bombs,” said Adam Peltz, director and senior attorney for the Environmental Defense Fund’s Energy Program.​

I guess this legacy of the ICE age isn't a problem if it's NIMBY

 

[Brett]

Some members keep on bringing up the canard of "spontaneously combusting EVs", how about "spontaneously exploding orphan oil wells"?

“Should we be worried?”: Another well blowout in West Texas has a town smelling of rotten eggs​

Experts warn that more blowouts should be expected unless oil and gas companies change their methods.

“Should we be worried?”: Another well blowout in West Texas has a town smelling of rotten eggs

Experts warn that more blowouts should be expected unless oil and gas companies change their methods.

www.texastribune.org

It is at least the eighth time since last October that chemical water has spewed from a well in West Texas without clear ownership, according to Sarah Stogner, an oil and gas attorney who for years has documented eruptions from orphaned wells.​

​

About 4.6 million Americans live within a half mile of an often-called orphaned well, according to a 2023 study by the nonprofit Environmental Defense Fund. The Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission has tallied 140,000 documented orphaned wells in the U.S. in 2024 report — 9,313 are in Texas. And the Permian Basin, which includes 61 West Texas counties, is filled with “all these ticking time bombs,” said Adam Peltz, director and senior attorney for the Environmental Defense Fund’s Energy Program.​

I guess this legacy of the ICE age isn't a problem if it's NIMBY

And everyday a house explodes because of GAS !

Father hospitalized after surviving explosion that destroyed his home​

https://www.wabi.tv/video/2024/10/0...-surviving-explosion-that-destroyed-his-home/

 

[HitchHiker71]

Remember, this was a shits and giggles scenario but the reason to target a Tesla would be the cost of the battery and that there are plenty of older Tesla needing a battery.

Bill

The problem with your theory is that it’s not that simple. It’s not just the pack, it’s the BMS module and software along with the pack - and that isn’t something that is plug and play between old and new models, because it’s a combination of different hardware and newer software. You can’t just bolt up a newer pack to an older model in other words. You need specific software and access to the core system to change out the pack. It’s just not worth the effort, which is why the theft rates are so low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

The problem with your theory is that it’s not that simple. It’s not just the pack, it’s the BMS module and software along with the pack - and that isn’t something that is plug and play between old and new models, because it’s a combination of different hardware and newer software. You can’t just bolt up a newer pack to an older model in other words. You need specific software and access to the core system to change out the pack. It’s just not worth the effort, which is why the theft rates are so low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure how all this works but people do buy salvaged Tesla's at the Insurance Auto Actions to part out. From how it's described it's pretty easy to remove the battery and maybe a bit tougher to install it in a different car. Hers's a videos of a guy doing this with hand tools in his back yard. My thought is this guy can figure it out any good mechanic could.

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

I'm not sure how all this works but people do buy salvaged Tesla's at the Insurance Auto Actions to part out. From how it's described it's pretty easy to remove the battery and maybe a bit tougher to install it in a different car. Hers's a videos of a guy doing this with hand tools in his back yard. My thought is this guy can figure it out any good mechanic could.

Bill

That example is a like for like battery - same size KW pack - same model year 18650 cells - same model year original and donor car (2013) - same wiring connections to/from the pack - and same BMS. One old pack for another old pack. What's the point really? A 200k mile pack swapped out for a 186k mile pack? Sure it's not hard to drop the pack - but that's not really buying you much and you have no idea the health of the donor pack either - could be in worse shape than the original pack dependent upon how it was used over time. My point is you cannot take a pack from a 2022 and install it into a 2018 - let alone a 2013 vehicle - there's simply too many differences over the model years - different wiring connections - very different BMS over those time periods. This is one of the inherent challenges with SDVs as opposed to ICE vehicles. It's more about the software than a simple hardware parts swap.

 

[DrQ]

I'm not sure how all this works but people do buy salvaged Tesla's at the Insurance Auto Actions to part out. From how it's described it's pretty easy to remove the battery and maybe a bit tougher to install it in a different car. Hers's a videos of a guy doing this with hand tools in his back yard. My thought is this guy can figure it out any good mechanic could.

Bill

IDK about Tesla's, but with my Bolt EV, the cells need to matched - otherwise the computer pukes. I assume the same is the same with a Tesla or any other EV.

They are not like Ray-O-Vac batteries.

 

[geist1223]

They are not like Ray-O-Vac batteries.

Well that needs to change

 

[emeryjre]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/snl-parodies-ev-trend-aa-battery-powered-mercedes-benz

 

[easyrider]

IDK about Tesla's, but with my Bolt EV, the cells need to matched - otherwise the computer pukes. I assume the same is the same with a Tesla or any other EV.

They are not like Ray-O-Vac batteries.

I was looking at the Tesla battery module and it looks like the cells are installed with epoxy so the entire module is garbage if a cell goes bad meaning the module in the battery pack could be changed. These are different from the Escape Hybrid battery we worked on as we were able to send out the bad cells for replacement.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

That example is a like for like battery - same size KW pack - same model year 18650 cells - same model year original and donor car (2013) - same wiring connections to/from the pack - and same BMS. One old pack for another old pack. What's the point really? A 200k mile pack swapped out for a 186k mile pack? Sure it's not hard to drop the pack - but that's not really buying you much and you have no idea the health of the donor pack either - could be in worse shape than the original pack dependent upon how it was used over time. My point is you cannot take a pack from a 2022 and install it into a 2018 - let alone a 2013 vehicle - there's simply too many differences over the model years - different wiring connections - very different BMS over those time periods. This is one of the inherent challenges with SDVs as opposed to ICE vehicles. It's more about the software than a simple hardware parts swap.

I get what you're saying. That's probably why no one is paying much for the salvaged Tesla's at the insurance auto auctions.

It does look like Tesla's are not that much harder to steal that a Hyundai. It's a cheap radio hack.

Bill

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-ultra-wideband-radio-relay-attacks/

 

[HitchHiker71]

I get what you're saying. That's probably why no one is paying much for the salvaged Tesla's at the insurance auto auctions.

It does look like Tesla's are not that much harder to steal that a Hyundai. It's a cheap radio hack.

Bill

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-ultra-wideband-radio-relay-attacks/

Not with PIN to drive - quoted from your linked article:

“Since the Tesla 3's keyless entry system also controls the car's immobilizer feature designed to prevent its theft, that means a radio hacker could start the car and drive it away in seconds—unless the driver has enabled Tesla's optional, off-by-default PIN-to-drive feature that requires the owner to enter a four-digit code before starting the car.”

Every Tesla owner I know uses P2D (Pin to drive).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

I was looking at the Tesla battery module and it looks like the cells are installed with epoxy so the entire module is garbage if a cell goes bad meaning the module in the battery pack could be changed. These are different from the Escape Hybrid battery we worked on as we were able to send out the bad cells for replacement.

Bill

Tesla has, through many years of real world battery pack analysis, while working with Munro Associates, long ago realized that the compromises required to make any pack modular produce core engineering problems that shorten the life of the pack, elevate fire risks significantly over the long term, and result in pack failures due to cell failures primarily due to inconsistent cooling across cells within the pack architecture. This is why every Tesla battery pack is encased in special foam epoxy material that actually is a key part of the temperature management of the entire pack.

This is why other packs have had much higher failure rates, including the Bolt and F150L as two examples. Munro Associates has done tear downs of almost every pack on the market to provide this type of data. They have a YT channel where you can go watch these tear downs and feedback sessions - I’ve watched dozens of them over the past several years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DrQ]

This is why other packs have had much higher failure rates, including the Bolt and F150L as two examples. Munro Associates has done tear downs of almost every pack on the market to provide this type of data. They have a YT channel where you can go watch these tear downs and feedback sessions - I’ve watched dozens of them over the past several years.

The Bolt battery failure was due to a manufacturer defect, not the cell design. The Bolt battery performs well WHEN THE SUPPLIER MANUFACTURES THE PART AS DESIGNED. Stay in your lane fan boi.

 

[davidvel]

This article reminded me of a certain someone.

The science behind why people think they're right when they're actually wrong

A new study illustrates the saying, "you don't know what you don't know."

www.nbcnews.com