You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[Elan]

They're called Speed Profiles: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/...F4B-8B04-09B991368DC5.html#CHOOSINGFSDPROFILE

So, what would be the expected response if I'm in one of the 3 fastest profiles on a stretch of desolate 2 lane US hiway (like US 20) with a posted speed of 65mph? Virtually no traffic, either direction.

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[Cornell]

So, what would be the expected response if I'm in one of the 3 fastest profiles on a stretch of desolate 2 lane US hiway (like US 20) with a posted speed of 65mph? Virtually no traffic, either direction.

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Didn’t I already answer that ?

 

[easyrider]

I remember you telling us your Tesla hit a pothole. Were you using FSD or similar ?

Bill

@HitchHiker71 This comment wasn't made to piss you off. Sorry if it did.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

I also know people who slept in their Tesla during the power outage.

That seems like a bummer more than a positive.

Bill

 

[Elan]

Didn’t I already answer that ?

Yes, but after reading the owners manual, the descriptions of each profile are ambiguous and have reference to "normal speed" and "flow of traffic", so I was looking for "real world" input based on a specific example where there is virtually no traffic flow for reference/calibration.

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[buzglyd]

Yes, but after reading the owners manual, the descriptions of each profile are ambiguous and have reference to "normal speed" and "flow of traffic", so I was looking for "real world" input based on a specific example where there is virtually no traffic flow for reference/calibration.

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In my experience, Standard is about 5 over on normal streets and 7 over on the Interstate. Hurry is maybe 10-12 over on the Interstate and Mad Max will speed for sure. If there are cars in front, of course it slows right down.

 

[HitchHiker71]

That seems like a bummer more than a positive.

Bill

If it's a MY you can buy air mattresses for the rear that many use when camping - just fold down the rear seats and you've got a nice sleeping area - that's why there are tent accessories that extend the MY off the back of the car - then use Camp Mode and boom - a complete HVAC controlled tent!

 

[HitchHiker71]

So, what would be the expected response if I'm in one of the 3 fastest profiles on a stretch of desolate 2 lane US hiway (like US 20) with a posted speed of 65mph? Virtually no traffic, either direction.

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Do you mean two lanes in each direction? IME it can vary quite a bit, especially without a lead car. One of the oddities of FSD is that it always tends to speed more with a lead car present than if there is no lead car present, and if there's literally no lead car - FSD behaves with more variability and uncertainty when it comes to maintaining a constant speed. I think this is from times past when more of the programming stack was actually lead car dependent. Assuming all other things being equal - and they rarely are - then if you use standard - FSD will not exceed 5-10mph over the posted 65mph limit - if using Hurry mode - it won't exceed 20mph over the limit - and if using Mad Max mode - it will never exceed 85mph - because that's the maximum speed FSD is capable of using at this time (been this way for a while now actually).

The issue of not having a lead car has gotten better in the v14.3.x versions - but it still needs a bit of work. One of the complaints you'll see over on TMC (Tesla Motors Club) forums is that people want the "Max Speed" setting back. I'm one of those who is in favor of having this setting back - but I understand the reasoning behind not giving it back at the same time.

If you're referring to a two lanes in each direction non-limited access highway - we've got Rt301 in my area that is similar. It runs through rural MD areas and we use 301S/N to transit back and forth to National Harbor or OTA whenever we go to those resorts. During night hours it's often deserted, though the speed limit is only 55mph since it's not a limited access highway. I routinely run in Hurry mode - and FSD will wander up and down - again dependent upon the billion parameters it's watching all around the car - between 55-75mph. Some folks that want Max Speed back really hate the variability of FSD speed control - it doesn't stay constant generally - because it's literally watching a billion parameter model to determine how to drive the vehicle - at all times - every millisecond.

 

[Elan]

In my experience, Standard is about 5 over on normal streets and 7 over on the Interstate. Hurry is maybe 10-12 over on the Interstate and Mad Max will speed for sure. If there are cars in front, of course it slows right down.

Thank you.

Long stretches of boring open road would be one of the use cases where I'd be most likely to engage FSD. Difficult to tell whether it would perform to a satisfactory level based on the above accounts and also not something I can easily explore during a test drive.

Is there a mode that drops the speed to the posted limit when the chirp of a radar detector is heard?

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[Elan]

Do you mean two lanes in each direction? IME it can vary quite a bit, especially without a lead car. One of the oddities of FSD is that it always tends to speed more with a lead car present than if there is no lead car present, and if there's literally no lead car - FSD behaves with more variability and uncertainty when it comes to maintaining a constant speed. I think this is from times past when more of the programming stack was actually lead car dependent. Assuming all other things being equal - and they rarely are - then if you use standard - FSD will not exceed 5-10mph over the posted 65mph limit - if using Hurry mode - it won't exceed 20mph over the limit - and if using Mad Max mode - it will never exceed 85mph - because that's the maximum speed FSD is capable of using at this time (been this way for a while now actually).

The issue of not having a lead car has gotten better in the v14.3.x versions - but it still needs a bit of work. One of the complaints you'll see over on TMC (Tesla Motors Club) forums is that people want the "Max Speed" setting back. I'm one of those who is in favor of having this setting back - but I understand the reasoning behind not giving it back at the same time.

If you're referring to a two lanes in each direction non-limited access highway - we've got Rt301 in my area that is similar. It runs through rural MD areas and we use 301S/N to transit back and forth to National Harbor or OTA whenever we go to those resorts. During night hours it's often deserted, though the speed limit is only 55mph since it's not a limited access highway. I routinely run in Hurry mode - and FSD will wander up and down - again dependent upon the billion parameters it's watching all around the car - between 55-75mph. Some folks that want Max Speed back really hate the variability of FSD speed control - it doesn't stay constant generally - because it's literally watching a billion parameter model to determine how to drive the vehicle - at all times - every millisecond.

A desolate 2 lane highway. One lane in each direction. Very common out west. Literally can go tens of miles without getting passed by or passing someone traveling in the same direction.

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[HitchHiker71]

Thank you.

Long stretches of boring open road would be one of the use cases where I'd be most likely to engage FSD. Difficult to tell whether it would perform to a satisfactory level based on the above accounts and also not something I can easily explore during a test drive.

Is there a mode that drops the speed to the posted limit when the chirp of a radar detector is heard?

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If FSD sees a marked cop car stationary on the side of the highway - it will actually slow down and switch into the slower lane on a multi-lane highway at least sometimes. Where it doesn’t do well is if the cop car is moving with traffic - like adjacent to you - yes it will attempt to pass that cop car if it’s going slower than FSD wants to go. I’ve had to either switch speed control modes or disable FSD a couple times when this has occurred.


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[buzglyd]

Thank you.

Long stretches of boring open road would be one of the use cases where I'd be most likely to engage FSD. Difficult to tell whether it would perform to a satisfactory level based on the above accounts and also not something I can easily explore during a test drive.

Is there a mode that drops the speed to the posted limit when the chirp of a radar detector is heard?

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Yes you could scroll down to Chill or Sloth. Chill I think goes the exact speed limit and Sloth pisses off everyone behind you.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Yes you could scroll down to Chill or Sloth. Chill I think goes the exact speed limit and Sloth pisses off everyone behind you.

Sloth matches the speed limit or slightly under dependent upon what’s ongoing around the vehicle. Chill will generally do 2-3mph over the posted limit if circumstances allow.


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[HitchHiker71]

A desolate 2 lane highway. One lane in each direction. Very common out west. Literally can go tens of miles without getting passed by or passing someone traveling in the same direction.

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Same as what I already described then. The reason the descriptions provided for the speed profiles don’t provide more explicit guidance is because the current model is tracking roughly one billion parameters to drive the vehicle, so there are very few set rules per se. FSD is 100% a neural network video based training model - there’s hardly any actual code driving the vehicle apart from a few hard and fast rules - like performing a full stop at all stop signs and right turns on red lights, which are NHTSA requirements despite the fact that most human drivers perform rolling stops in comparison under the very same circumstances.

FSD v15 will move up to 8-10x more parameters either later this year or early next year for the consumer fleet. V15 is already running on a portion of the unsupervised robotaxi vehicles in active service today.


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[buzglyd]

My wife went up to San Clemente yesterday to have lunch with a friend. I told her that probably wasn’t a good idea on a Friday. They finished up lunch and shopping and and traffic was brutal coming home. 2 hours to go 35 miles. I told her to put it in FSD and listen to her audio book. It brought her all the way home and she was way less frustrated.

 

[HitchHiker71]

My wife went up to San Clemente yesterday to have lunch with a friend. I told her that probably wasn’t a good idea on a Friday. They finished up lunch and shopping and and traffic was brutal coming home. 2 hours to go 35 miles. I told her to put it in FSD and listen to her audio book. It brought her all the way home and she was way less frustrated.

Driver fatigue is a real thing, whether stuck in traffic or on long road trips. Most folks who’ve never used FSD have no real concept of how eliminating driver fatigue by using FSD is a real thing though.

I’ve taken long road trips using FSD for the entirety of the trip and experience next to no fatigue apart from some joint stiffness from sitting for too long, and braving bumper to bumper traffic is no longer an exercise in frustration either.


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[Elan]

My wife went up to San Clemente yesterday to have lunch with a friend. I told her that probably wasn’t a good idea on a Friday. They finished up lunch and shopping and and traffic was brutal coming home. 2 hours to go 35 miles. I told her to put it in FSD and listen to her audio book. It brought her all the way home and she was way less frustrated.

As I have stated here previously, this is a use case where having FSD would be highly beneficial. Fortunately, where I live, this isn't a reality I have to deal with.

 

[emeryjre]

My wife went up to San Clemente yesterday to have lunch with a friend. I told her that probably wasn’t a good idea on a Friday. They finished up lunch and shopping and and traffic was brutal coming home. 2 hours to go 35 miles. I told her to put it in FSD and listen to her audio book. It brought her all the way home and she was way less frustrated.

The price we pay for some of the finest weather in the world

The expectation of Urban planners is the future will bring us Networked Autonomous Driving
Every vehicle's destination is in the network and routed in the most efficient method possible

How it will really work is left to futurists

A narrow corridor like the I-5 through Camp Pendleton will certainly be a challenge to planners

The other challenge is how many of us will stay on the right side of the grass to see it

 

[PigsDad]

Is there a mode that drops the speed to the posted limit when the chirp of a radar detector is heard?

Tesla should hack into the system that knows the GPS location of all the patrol cars in the area, and then drive accordingly. Heck, that could be an add-on service Tesla could sell!

 

[buzglyd]

The price we pay for some of the finest weather in the world

The expectation of Urban planners is the future will bring us Networked Autonomous Driving
Every vehicle's destination is in the network and routed in the most efficient method possible

How it will really work is left to futurists

A narrow corridor like the I-5 through Camp Pendleton will certainly be a challenge to planners

The other challenge is how many of us will stay on the right side of the grass to see it

That’s the biggest problem with that section of I5 through the base. No options. Years ago, my dad was a fireman in LA and commuted from our home in Vista. An 18 wheeler overturned and blocked all four lanes. He was heading home in the morning and a was trapped on the freeway for hours. No alternate routes available.

 

[easyrider]

It's official. The Cyber Truck is one of the biggest flops in automotive history, lol.

Bill

Cybertruck Called the Biggest Flop in Automotive History, as Tesla Shares Plummet

Tesla investors endured the worst week for the stock since 2022, while a damning new report compared the Cybertruck to one of the most notorious failures in automotive history. The numbers behind that comparison are harder to dismiss than Elon Musk's defenders might hope.

finance.yahoo.com

Cybertruck Called the Biggest Flop in Automotive History​

 

[buzglyd]

It's official. The Cyber Truck is one of the biggest flops in automotive history, lol.

Bill

Cybertruck Called the Biggest Flop in Automotive History, as Tesla Shares Plummet

Tesla investors endured the worst week for the stock since 2022, while a damning new report compared the Cybertruck to one of the most notorious failures in automotive history. The numbers behind that comparison are harder to dismiss than Elon Musk's defenders might hope.

finance.yahoo.com

Cybertruck Called the Biggest Flop in Automotive History​

It might be a flop but I see them everywhere around here. I drove one and it was pretty damn fun. I don’t tow a boat or haul heavy stuff anymore so one would work for me but I’m still running my 2002 Toyota Tundra. She’ll be 25 in May.

 

[divenski]

Driver fatigue is a real thing, whether stuck in traffic or on long road trips. Most folks who’ve never used FSD have no real concept of how eliminating driver fatigue by using FSD is a real thing though.

I’ve taken long road trips using FSD for the entirety of the trip and experience next to no fatigue apart from some joint stiffness from sitting for too long, and braving bumper to bumper traffic is no longer an exercise in frustration either.

For dealing with bumper to bumper traffic, and maybe even open roads, isn't Adaptive Cruise Control good enough? Several brands now offer it and with good reviews. And it's not specific to EVs.

 

[easyrider]

It might be a flop but I see them everywhere around here. I drove one and it was pretty damn fun. I don’t tow a boat or haul heavy stuff anymore so one would work for me but I’m still running my 2002 Toyota Tundra. She’ll be 25 in May.

With the gas prices over in your area, ev's do make sense, imo. I'm paying for non-ethanol premium for less than you guys pay for regular. Regular over here is about $4.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

For dealing with bumper to bumper traffic, and maybe even open roads, isn't Adaptive Cruise Control good enough? Several brands now offer it and with good reviews. And it's not specific to EVs.

According to @davidvel his Subaru's adaptive cruise control is as good as any of them.

Bill