You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[buzglyd]

For dealing with bumper to bumper traffic, and maybe even open roads, isn't Adaptive Cruise Control good enough? Several brands now offer it and with good reviews. And it's not specific to EVs.

You have to still steer with adaptive cruise.

 

[Elan]

Physical discomfort is by far the biggest element for me for extended road trips. I'm stopping every couple of hours, regardless, just to stretch my legs and/or appreciate the scenery. My wife sometimes takes short stints behind the wheel if I want to surf on my phone for 30-45 minutes (usually to check the markets or sports scores or reconcile tee times )

As an important and related aside, there needs to be some acknowledgement that not everyone lives in the same environment nor has the same driving/travel habits. I cannot emphasize this enough. Some examples:

Idaho -- there's effectively (and barely) 2 freeways in the entire state, and everything else is a 2 lane undivided highway. There are many places where, if you break down (on a major US Highway), you might not have cell service and even if you do, you're certainly not ringing AAA and getting a tow in half an hour...

Other than rush hour on I84 west of Boise, we generally don't have stop and go type traffic jams. And those clear in an hour or so.

On our drive to our TS in central Oregon, there are exactly 0 Superchargers in a span of 266 miles (according to Tesla's site) again, on a US Highway. There are a handful of lower capacity chargers along the way.

All this to say that things are WAY different in the mountain west compared to densely populated areas. Hopefully, everyone acknowledges this when making generalized statements in this thread.

 

[divenski]

You have to still steer with adaptive cruise.

True, but in a most bumper to bumper traffic, a lot steering is not needed. And most cars with good ACC also have lane centering systems, and sometimes to the level of hands free in some situations.

https://www.bmwusa.com/DriverAssistance.html

 

[buzglyd]

True, but in a most bumper to bumper traffic, a lot steering is not needed. And most cars with good ACC also have lane centering systems, and sometimes to the level of hands free in some situations.

https://www.bmwusa.com/DriverAssistance.html

My Mazda screams at me if I take my hands off the wheel. Plus you still need the brakes if traffic comes to a complete stop. ACC and FSD or not even close.

 

[emeryjre]

That’s the biggest problem with that section of I5 through the base. No options. Years ago, my dad was a fireman in LA and commuted from our home in Vista. An 18 wheeler overturned and blocked all four lanes. He was heading home in the morning and a was trapped on the freeway for hours. No alternate routes available.

I have been stuck on SoCal Freeways for over 8 hours on 3 separate occasions since the mid 80's
When I say stuck
I mean no way forward or back
Stuck
Once was a terrible accident/road rage incident where somebody shot and killed someone about 10 cars ahead of us
Happened by the 215/I-15 interchange headed to Las Vegas

I was headed to Morro Bay when the entire Freeway system was shut down for a series of accidents that gridlocked the entire LA Basin

A good friend of mine sold his golf course vacation home recently
They drove down from the mountains east of Fresno
They got tired of the uncertainty of the travel time in the LA Basin in the last several years

I think all of us traveling from North to South/South to North in SoCal have horror stories about traffic delays

But what beautiful weather along the coastal strip of Southern California

 

[HitchHiker71]

You have to still steer with adaptive cruise.

I’ve got adaptive cruise on my 2018 RAM 1500 Limited. It’s nowhere close to the same as self driving, and I’m speaking from direct personal experience with tens of thousands of miles in both vehicles (if I include the 2023 MY LR that we traded in on our 2026 MY LR).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[divenski]

My Mazda screams at me if I take my hands off the wheel. Plus you still need the brakes if traffic comes to a complete stop. ACC and FSD or not even close.

From what I have read, a Mazda might not be the best comparison point for enhanced ACC.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Physical discomfort is by far the biggest element for me for extended road trips. I'm stopping every couple of hours, regardless, just to stretch my legs and/or appreciate the scenery. My wife sometimes takes short stints behind the wheel if I want to surf on my phone for 30-45 minutes (usually to check the markets or sports scores or reconcile tee times )

As an important and related aside, there needs to be some acknowledgement that not everyone lives in the same environment nor has the same driving/travel habits. I cannot emphasize this enough. Some examples:

Idaho -- there's effectively (and barely) 2 freeways in the entire state, and everything else is a 2 lane undivided highway. There are many places where, if you break down (on a major US Highway), you might not have cell service and even if you do, you're certainly not ringing AAA and getting a tow in half an hour...

Other than rush hour on I84 west of Boise, we generally don't have stop and go type traffic jams. And those clear in an hour or so.

On our drive to our TS in central Oregon, there are exactly 0 Superchargers in a span of 266 miles (according to Tesla's site) again, on a US Highway. There are a handful of lower capacity chargers along the way.

All this to say that things are WAY different in the mountain west compared to densely populated areas. Hopefully, everyone acknowledges this when making generalized statements in this thread.

I will acknowledge what you’re saying, provided you also acknowledge that by far the vast majority of people, globally as well as here in the US, live in densely populated areas - urban or suburban in nature - so while what you’re saying is true - it is by every definition a minority use case scenario from a statistical standpoint, however true it may be for your specific scenario.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

My Mazda screams at me if I take my hands off the wheel. Plus you still need the brakes if traffic comes to a complete stop. ACC and FSD or not even close.

It’s also worth mentioning that in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic - the attention monitoring systems are very relaxed since no vehicles are moving at any significant rate of speed. I can literally take my eyes off the road in our Tesla for minutes at a time in traffic jams of this nature and the attention monitoring won’t bark at me at all as long as the car stays under 10-15mph IME.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

From what I have read, a Mazda might not be the best comparison point for enhanced ACC.

View attachment 128010

TACC does not equal ADAS - to put it in simple terms. Tow different sets of technologies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

Tesla should hack into the system that knows the GPS location of all the patrol cars in the area, and then drive accordingly. Heck, that could be an add-on service Tesla could sell!

Tesla will be adding automated Waze type features soon, it already does this for construction zones and alternate routes actually. Tesla has been developing an automated vision-based reporting system that uses the vehicle's fleet cameras and AI to automatically tag road hazards, speed traps, accidents, and construction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

All this to say that things are WAY different in the mountain west compared to densely populated areas. Hopefully, everyone acknowledges this when making generalized statements in this thread.

I think we live in similar types of areas. Tesla doesn't have any dealers around here. No one services them here. There are a few Super Chargers in our area but I rarely see anyone using them. There are a handful of Tesla models driving around our area. Two of my retired neighbors are driving Tesla my and home charge. Both have large suv's too.

To me, Teslas are still a niche vehicle. The reality is ev's make up about 1.9% of all vehicles on the road today in the USA. Where they work well is in climates like Southern California and Florida where most of these Teslas are. They have range problems in too hot or too cold of an environment even with the battery management system because the system drains the battery while keeping the battery cool or warm.

@Cornell @HitchHiker71 I kind of think you two are laughable about camping out in a Tesla in cold weather at a frozen charging station. This is not a pro, it's a con. Especially when a tow truck can bring a regular car a can of gas, lol.

Bill

 

[divenski]

TACC does not equal ADAS - to put it in simple terms. Tow different sets of technologies.

My main point was that many other modern vehicles have much more than TACC. To cite BMW again

 

[Cornell]

I think we live in similar types of areas. Tesla doesn't have any dealers around here. No one services them here. There are a few Super Chargers in our area but I rarely see anyone using them. There are a handful of Tesla models driving around our area. Two of my retired neighbors are driving Tesla my and home charge. Both have large suv's too.

To me, Teslas are still a niche vehicle. The reality is ev's make up about 1.9% of all vehicles on the road today in the USA. Where they work well is in climates like Southern California and Florida where most of these Teslas are. They have range problems in too hot or too cold of an environment even with the battery management system because the system drains the battery while keeping the battery cool or warm.

@Cornell @HitchHiker71 I kind of think you two are laughable about camping out in a Tesla in cold weather at a frozen charging station. This is not a pro, it's a con. Especially when a tow truck can bring a regular car a can of gas, lol.

Bill

I don’t think you understand what I was describing. I live in an area that was hit with a tornado and people were out of power 3-4 days. This isn’t “running out of electricity”. Kind of a jerk off thing to say. People can sleep in a cool comfortable car vs in their 90 degree house.

 

[Ken555]

Tesla doesn't have any dealers around here.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

I don’t think you understand what I was describing. I live in an area that was hit with a tornado and people were out of power 3-4 days. This isn’t “running out of electricity”. Kind of a jerk off thing to say. People can sleep in a cool comfortable car vs in their 90 degree house.

Wow, why are you being so vulgar to make a point ? Most cars have air conditioning, right ? You probably know more people cooling off in a regular car than a Tesla if that is how people cool off in your area is what I think.

Bill

 

[Cornell]

Wow, why are you being so vulgar to make a point ? Most cars have air conditioning, right ? You probably know more people cooling off in a regular car than a Tesla if that is how people cool off in your area is what I think.

Bill

Because you made a lot of ridiculous assumptions and you insulted me by calling me “laughable”. It’s actually not fun to be without power for 3 days especially after a severe weather event like a tornado.

And no, I don’t know people who are sleeping all night in a gas powered car with the engine running to enjoy AC. In a Tesla it’s easy & convenient and I could even do so in an enclosed garage.

 

[easyrider]

calling me “laughable”

Geez Laura, I don't get the vulgarity. It reeks of anger. My point was that a gas vehicles driver can call someone for gas instead of camping out to get a charge, lol.

Bill

 

[PigsDad]

My Mazda screams at me if I take my hands off the wheel. Plus you still need the brakes if traffic comes to a complete stop. ACC and FSD or not even close.

The ACC in our 2022 Toyota CH-R can come to a complete stop and then continue all on its own. I barely have to touch the steering wheel and only after several seconds will it warn me with my lane centering turned on. Sounds like Mazda doesn't have a very good ACC system.

Kurt

 

[Cornell]

Geez Laura, I don't get the vulgarity. It reeks of anger. My point was that a gas vehicles driver can call someone for gas instead of camping out to get a charge, lol.

Bill

Yes I am angry bc you keep missing the point while calling it laughable.

I didn’t run out of a charge. This isn’t an analogy of running out of gas. You seem to keep thinking this is camping out to get a car charged.

It is describing a scenario of a lengthy power outage in hot weather where someone can comfortably sleep in a Tesla in camp mode.

Not sure how else to explain this to you. You either don’t understand or you’re being willfully obtuse.

 

[buzglyd]

The ACC in our 2022 Toyota CH-R can come to a complete stop and then continue all on its own. I barely have to touch the steering wheel and only after several seconds will it warn me with my lane centering turned on. Sounds like Mazda doesn't have a very good ACC system.

Kurt

Sounds almost exactly the same. I use it when I drive the Mazda but it’s still not even close to FSD in the Tesla.

 

[Elan]

I will acknowledge what you’re saying, provided you also acknowledge that by far the vast majority of people, globally as well as here in the US, live in densely populated areas - urban or suburban in nature - so while what you’re saying is true - it is by every definition a minority use case scenario from a statistical standpoint, however true it may be for your specific scenario.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's irrelevant. Who makes personal decisions based on majority vs what best applies to their specific situation? I certainly don't and I doubt you do either.

The point was that these generalized statements are never qualified and, more importantly, even though it's quite obvious that not everyone lives/drives in the same environment, no acknowledgement that some technology will be of reduced value depending on environment. In fact, you implied that my lack of appreciation for FSD was simply because I hadn't tried it. Like I was incapable of visualizing how FSD would impact my life without actually getting behind the wheel of a Tesla, lol. No regard to where I live, what my local traffic is like, what my driving habits are, etc. That indicates a lack of awareness of environments/behaviors different than one's own. I took the opportunity to address that.




Sent from my Pixel 9a using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

Yes I am angry bc you keep missing the point while calling it laughable.

I didn’t run out of a charge. This isn’t an analogy of running out of gas. You seem to keep thinking this is camping out to get a car charged.

It is describing a scenario of a lengthy power outage in hot weather where someone can comfortably sleep in a Tesla in camp mode.

Not sure how else to explain this to you. You either don’t understand or you’re being willfully obtuse.

I understood exactly what you are saying and will say bless your heart Laura.

Even if I was 100% wrong it doesn't excuse using vulagaities to make a point. You must think it's ok because of your percieved gender but it isn't.

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

That's irrelevant. Who makes personal decisions based on majority vs what best applies to their specific situation? I certainly don't and I doubt you do either.

The point was that these generalized statements are never qualified and, more importantly, even though it's quite obvious that not everyone lives/drives in the same environment, no acknowledgement that some technology will be of reduced value depending on environment. In fact, you implied that my lack of appreciation for FSD was simply because I hadn't tried it. Like I was incapable of visualizing how FSD would impact my life without actually getting behind the wheel of a Tesla, lol. No regard to where I live, what my local traffic is like, what my driving habits are, etc. That indicates a lack of awareness of environments/behaviors different than one's own. I took the opportunity to address that.




Sent from my Pixel 9a using Tapatalk

I never said I wouldn’t make decisions based upon my own circumstances, please show me where I actually said that? I simply stated, accurately I might add, that the macrostatistics clearly show that where you live apparently - in a remote mountain area - is not where most people live. Are you saying this isn’t accurate?

Statements of fact are just that, factual statements. If you don’t like them, that is your issue to grapple with not mine.

And yes, imagining something in this life is not at all the same as actually experiencing something for real in this life. Again, I’m surprising you are getting defensive about the reality of such simple life lessons. I speak from real world experience, you don’t, period, full stop. Now, it may be true that your specific circumstances may not be a good match for owning an EV, and that is your choice to make of course. No one said otherwise, myself included.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

I don’t think you understand what I was describing. I live in an area that was hit with a tornado and people were out of power 3-4 days. This isn’t “running out of electricity”. Kind of a jerk off thing to say. People can sleep in a cool comfortable car vs in their 90 degree house.

Somehow, as is not unusual with Bill, he conflated together charging and camping - why I have absolutely no idea - since no one said anything about combining these two disparate topics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk