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You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

Sounds almost exactly the same. I use it when I drive the Mazda but it’s still not even close to FSD in the Tesla.
But it sounds like you need to brake to come to a full stop when the Mazda's ACC is engaged? (unless I misunderstood what you said) To me, that would be a big difference when in stop and go traffic. And I agree ACC is no substitute for FSD, but in the context of stop and go traffic on a freeway where you are staying in one lane, it is basically the same -- until you need to do some actual "driving" like switch lanes, exit the highway, etc.

Kurt
 
But it sounds like you need to brake to come to a full stop when the Mazda's ACC is engaged? (unless I misunderstood what you said) To me, that would be a big difference when in stop and go traffic. And I agree ACC is no substitute for FSD, but in the context of stop and go traffic on a freeway where you are staying in one lane, it is basically the same -- until you need to do some actual "driving" like switch lanes, exit the highway, etc.

Kurt
No, it will come to a full stop and then continue once traffic starts moving.
 
*** CONTENT MODERATED/REMOVED ***

I really doubt anyone wants to camp in a Tesla. My bet is you or Laura have never camped in your Teslas. Even if you did , you could camp out in any vehicle. There are many homeless doing this every night. It isn't unique or something Tesla does better. In fact, there are many suv's that are bigger and better for camping purposes.

Bill
Yes, because ICE vehicles have 80kw+ batteries that can last for days providing HVAC into attached tents - along with movies/shows/games/screens. Homeless aren't driving around in relatively new EVs by design, given they cannot afford them in the first place - they're likely driving older ICE vehicles in a generally bad state of repair, unless you're actually referring to those who willingly embrace a nomadic camping type lifestyle of course. I never said EVs were bigger or better, I merely pointed out that ICE vehicles don't have "camp mode" and that EVs have specific accessories and features built for camping, why are you so offended by factual statements of this nature? Maybe you need to ask yourself honestly why that is. For my part, given you are under a great deal of stress from wildfires, one can at least understand why you may not be in the best frame of mind at this time - if I were facing what you're currently facing with wildfires in my immediate area - I know I certainly wouldn't be in the best frame of mind - I hope and pray you and yours stay safe!

Pictures are worth a thousand words - here's some real pics of Tesla's being used for camping: https://guideofgreece.com/ (just one example of many)

1785768082244.png


1785767708342.png
 
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I never said I wouldn’t make decisions based upon my own circumstances, please show me where I actually said that? I simply stated, accurately I might add, that the macrostatistics clearly show that where you live apparently - in a remote mountain area - is not where most people live. Are you saying this isn’t accurate?

Statements of fact are just that, factual statements. If you don’t like them, that is your issue to grapple with not mine.

And yes, imagining something in this life is not at all the same as actually experiencing something for real in this life. Again, I’m surprising you are getting defensive about the reality of such simple life lessons. I speak from real world experience, you don’t, period, full stop. Now, it may be true that your specific circumstances may not be a good match for owning an EV, and that is your choice to make of course. No one said otherwise, myself included.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I said irrelevant, not inaccurate. Accuracy doesn't matter when your "macro statistics" are irrelevant. That you don't get this is remarkable if you truly work in tech.

I've stated numerous times that I'm pro EV (actually had deposit on M3 pre-production), and pro any tech that makes driving safer, more efficient, etc, including delf driving. But I stop short of drinking the Kool-Aid that FSD in it's current form is so life changing.

I find your insistence that I can't possibly imagine the impact of FSD on my life without actually experiencing it to be laughably ignorant. Full stop. Period. It's driving, FFS, not brain surgery. Maybe you're just not adept at perceiving things, without actually doing them. That's fine, but that doesn't apply to everyone. That you keep referencing your "real world" experience mostly tells me you have nothing else to offer. It's your one "ace in the hole" for this discussion, so you keep going back to it. So why don't you elaborate on how your "real world" experience is so much better with FSD? Give us some "real world" examples of the aspects of driving that you found impossible to overcome or struggled with before FSD that are now so much easier or better.
 
I said irrelevant, not inaccurate. Accuracy doesn't matter when your "macro statistics" are irrelevant. That you don't get this is remarkable if you truly work in tech.
One man's trash is another man's treasure I guess.
I've stated numerous times that I'm pro EV (actually had deposit on M3 pre-production), and pro any tech that makes driving safer, more efficient, etc, including delf driving. But I stop short of drinking the Kool-Aid that FSD in it's current form is so life changing.

I find your insistence that I can't possibly imagine the impact of FSD on my life without actually experiencing it to be laughably ignorant. Full stop. Period. It's driving, FFS, not brain surgery. Maybe you're just not adept at perceiving things, without actually doing them. That's fine, but that doesn't apply to everyone. That you keep referencing your "real world" experience mostly tells me you have nothing else to offer. It's your one "ace in the hole" for this discussion, so you keep going back to it. So why don't you elaborate on how your "real world" experience is so much better with FSD? Give us some "real world" examples of the aspects of driving that you found impossible to overcome or struggled with before FSD that are now so much easier or better.
Thanks for the disrespectful judgments. Placed on Ignore.
 
Yes, because ICE vehicles have 80kw+ batteries that can last for days providing HVAC into attached tents - along with movies/shows/games/screens. Homeless aren't driving around in relatively new EVs by design, given they cannot afford them in the first place - they're likely driving older ICE vehicles in a generally bad state of repair, unless you're actually referring to those who willingly embrace a nomadic camping type lifestyle of course. I never said EVs were bigger or better, I merely pointed out that ICE vehicles don't have "camp mode" and that EVs have specific accessories and features built for camping, why are you so offended by factual statements of this nature? Maybe you need to ask yourself honestly why that is. For my part, given you are under a great deal of stress from wildfires, one can at least understand why you may not be in the best frame of mind at this time - if I were facing what you're currently facing with wildfires in my immediate area - I know I certainly wouldn't be in the best frame of mind - I hope and pray you and yours stay safe!

Pictures are worth a thousand words - here's some real pics of Tesla's being used for camping: https://guideofgreece.com/ (just one example of many)

View attachment 128060

View attachment 128059
Assuming a mostly full battery, how long would camp mode last? and I suppose you would need to be careful not to run too low because you might need to get to a charging station at some point.

I had an optometrist appointment a few months ago and my son rode with me. I told him I was putting him in dog mode while I was inside. He laughed and insisted on camp mode.
 
Yes, because ICE vehicles have 80kw+ batteries that can last for days providing HVAC into attached tents - along with movies/shows/games/screens. Homeless aren't driving around in relatively new EVs by design, given they cannot afford them in the first place - they're likely driving older ICE vehicles in a generally bad state of repair, unless you're actually referring to those who willingly embrace a nomadic camping type lifestyle of course. I never said EVs were bigger or better, I merely pointed out that ICE vehicles don't have "camp mode" and that EVs have specific accessories and features built for camping, why are you so offended by factual statements of this nature? Maybe you need to ask yourself honestly why that is. For my part, given you are under a great deal of stress from wildfires, one can at least understand why you may not be in the best frame of mind at this time - if I were facing what you're currently facing with wildfires in my immediate area - I know I certainly wouldn't be in the best frame of mind - I hope and pray you and yours stay safe!

Pictures are worth a thousand words - here's some real pics of Tesla's being used for camping: https://guideofgreece.com/ (just one example of many)

View attachment 128060

View attachment 128059
It's a nice camping solution for a couple but for a family of 4 you might end up with a lack of cargo space in both trunks.
One of my former colleagues with 2 kids prefers to tow this electrical camp trailer https://www.proliterv.com/rv-for-sale/e-evasion with his Tesla Model Y AWD long range even if he loses a lot of range and needs to stop more often to recharge the Tesla.
 
Assuming a mostly full battery, how long would camp mode last? and I suppose you would need to be careful not to run too low because you might need to get to a charging station at some point.

I had an optometrist appointment a few months ago and my son rode with me. I told him I was putting him in dog mode while I was inside. He laughed and insisted on camp mode.
Great question - it really depends on the weather, below is Grok's answer - starting with an 80% SoC. What most folks I've actually spoken with do that camp in their Tesla is to book a campsite with an eletrical connection - even if it's just a normal outlet - that's typically enough to offset the usage - and this is really only necessary if you're camping for several days or a week or longer - otherwise you're not using enough juice to worry about having to recharge while camping due to battery drain:


Roughly 40–60+ hours in mild weather (down to the ~20% cutoff), or about 20–40 hours in hotter/colder conditions, depending on factors like outside temperature, cabin setpoint, battery size, and insulation.

Tesla Camp Mode keeps climate control active (heating/cooling as needed), powers the screen/USB ports for entertainment and charging, and maintains cabin comfort while parked. It automatically exits around 20% state of charge to preserve driving range.

Typical drain rates (Model Y, real-world owner/aggregated data)​

  • Mild conditions (roughly 60–75°F / 15–24°C outside, cabin ~68–72°F / 20–22°C): ~1–1.5% battery per hour (often ~0.75–1.2 kWh/h). An 8-hour night commonly uses 8–12%.
  • Hot conditions(heavy A/C, >85–95°F / 30–35°C+): ~1.5–2.5% per hour (or higher with sun exposure).
  • Cold conditions (near freezing or below, heating active): ~2–3%+ per hour (higher in extremes; heat-pump-equipped Model Ys are more efficient than older resistive systems).
These are averages; actual use varies with exact temperature delta, whether the system is mostly circulating air vs. actively heating/cooling, window shades/insulation, screen/media use, and minor loads. Initial temperature pull-down uses more energy than steady-state holding. Smaller-battery (Standard Range/RWD, 58–60 kWh usable) versions show higher percentage drain than Long Range (75–82 kWh usable) for the same energy use.

Estimate with 80% starting charge​

Usable buffer before the ~20% cutoff: 60 percentage points.

  • Mild weather (1%/h): **50–60 hours**.
  • Moderate heat/cold (1.5–2%/h): **30–40 hours**.
  • More extreme (2.5–3%/h): **20–24 hours**.
For a typical overnight (8 hours), expect to wake with roughly 68–72% in mild weather, or 60–68% in hotter/colder conditions—still leaving substantial range.

Tips to maximize runtime​

  • Pre-condition the cabin while plugged in or driving so Camp Mode only maintains temperature.
  • Use window shades or Reflectix-style insulation.
  • Set a moderate cabin temperature (avoid large differences from outside).
  • Disable Sentry Mode (it adds drain and is typically off in Camp Mode anyway).
  • If possible, plug into even a standard outlet—it can offset or exceed the draw.
  • Monitor via the app; don’t plan to run all the way to the 20% floor if you need significant remaining range.
Exact duration is highly condition-dependent, so testing overnight in similar weather with your vehicle and settings gives the best personal baseline. Official Tesla guidance often cites ~1% per hour as a rough mild-weather estimate.
 
It's a nice camping solution for a couple but for a family of 4 you might end up with a lack of cargo space in both trunks.
One of my co-workers with 2 kids prefers to tow this electrical camp trailer https://www.proliterv.com/rv-for-sale/e-evasion with his Tesla Model Y AWD long range even if he loses a lot of range and needs to stop more often to recharge the Tesla.
For sure, if you've got a larger family, you're likely going to have a dedicated tow behind camper or an RV if you're way into camping.
 
Yes, because ICE vehicles have 80kw+ batteries that can last for days providing HVAC into attached tents - along with movies/shows/games/screens. Homeless aren't driving around in relatively new EVs by design, given they cannot afford them in the first place - they're likely driving older ICE vehicles in a generally bad state of repair, unless you're actually referring to those who willingly embrace a nomadic camping type lifestyle of course. I never said EVs were bigger or better, I merely pointed out that ICE vehicles don't have "camp mode" and that EVs have specific accessories and features built for camping, why are you so offended by factual statements of this nature? Maybe you need to ask yourself honestly why that is. For my part, given you are under a great deal of stress from wildfires, one can at least understand why you may not be in the best frame of mind at this time - if I were facing what you're currently facing with wildfires in my immediate area - I know I certainly wouldn't be in the best frame of mind - I hope and pray you and yours stay safe!

Pictures are worth a thousand words - here's some real pics of Tesla's being used for camping: https://guideofgreece.com/ (just one example of many)

View attachment 128060

View attachment 128059

Firstly, I'm not stressed out by anything. Secondly, I'm not offended by any posts as I'm not concerned about what anyone thinks. My concerns are more about actions that can and do kill threads. You know exactly what I think.

Lastly, the big lie about electric cars is that they are a vehicle that has been embraced by most of the American public as a viable product. They aren't .

The truth after all of these years is ev's are still more of a niche product making up about 1.9% of all vehicles on the American road today. The typical buyer is a middle aged man keeping up with their contemporaries living in a tech heavy area.

I really don't see camping in any car a plus. Especially in a tent connected to a car. You should definitely get this. To me it looks like something my family might use once. The only thing I like about a Tesla is the acceleration. I doubt that FSD will ever pass the liability challenges as manufacturers will protect their companies over the safety of drivers.

Bill
 
Firstly, I'm not stressed out by anything. Secondly, I'm not offended by any posts as I'm not concerned about what anyone thinks. My concerns are more about actions that can and do kill threads. You know exactly what I think.
If you're referring to how @Cornell responded to your posts - why don't you try taking responsibility for your own words/actions? I had nothing to do with what you said, nor what Cornell chose to say, nor did I encourage anything in either direction, other than to reinforce the notion that you sometimes conflate things together without any basis, which many others on this thread would also agree with and have repeatedly commented on themselves, and when confronted with the facts, you refuse to back down for whatever reason. You then decided to try to deflect away from your own actions when @Cornell had the nerve to confront you about your conflations, and tried, falsely I might add, to place the blame on me. The blame, if any, is squarely on your own actions and the consequences based on what you posted. If you cannot see that, well, that's on you.
Lastly, the big lie about electric cars is that they are a vehicle that has been embraced by most of the American public as a viable product. They aren't .
Where did anyone say this? I see Tesla's and other BEVs all of the time on the roads, and while no one is arguing they are outselling ICE vehicles, they are currently selling about 1 out of every 10 vehicles in the US since gas prices increased, whereas in Feb 2026 it was 6.5% of all consumer vehicles sold.
The truth after all of these years is ev's are still more of a niche product making up about 1.9% of all vehicles on the American road today. The typical buyer is a middle aged man keeping up with their contemporaries living in a tech heavy area.
What matters is the percentage of how many BEVs are sold, not vehicles on the road, when it comes to determining market penetration. That said, BEVs still have a long way to go, and both range and charging times remain blockers for many, without a doubt.
I really don't see camping in any car a plus. Especially in a tent connected to a car. You should definitely get this. To me it looks like something my family might use once. The only thing I like about a Tesla is the acceleration. I doubt that FSD will ever pass the liability challenges as manufacturers will protect their companies over the safety of drivers.

Bill
When FSD goes unsupervised, please be prepared to eat your words - I'll refer back to this post when (not if) that time comes. Our own Tesla Model Y - is already driving itself 95.4% of the time. Two years ago that was around 50% of the time. Two years from now? Two years is a long time when it comes to how quickly this type of tech is improving. Of course, only time will tell.
 
If you're referring to how @Cornell responded to your posts - why don't you try taking responsibility for your own words/actions? I had nothing to do with what you said, nor what Cornell chose to say, nor did I encourage anything in either direction, other than to reinforce the notion that you sometimes conflate things together without any basis, which many others on this thread would also agree with and have repeatedly commented on themselves, and when confronted with the facts, you refuse to back down for whatever reason. You then decided to try to deflect away from your own actions when @Cornell had the nerve to confront you about your conflations, and tried, falsely I might add, to place the blame on me. The blame, if any, is squarely on your own actions and the consequences based on what you posted. If you cannot see that, well, that's on you.

Where did anyone say this? I see Tesla's and other BEVs all of the time on the roads, and while no one is arguing they are outselling ICE vehicles, they are currently selling about 1 out of every 10 vehicles in the US since gas prices increased, whereas in Feb 2026 it was 6.5% of all consumer vehicles sold.

What matters is the percentage of how many BEVs are sold, not vehicles on the road, when it comes to determining market penetration. That said, BEVs still have a long way to go, and both range and charging times remain blockers for many, without a doubt.

When FSD goes unsupervised, please be prepared to eat your words - I'll refer back to this post when (not if) that time comes. Our own Tesla Model Y - is already driving itself 95.4% of the time. Two years ago that was around 50% of the time. Two years from now? Two years is a long time when it comes to how quickly this type of tech is improving. Of course, only time will tell.
Satirical whimsy time. . .

Which will come first - Tesla true FSD (or autonomous driving, if you prefer) or the Aptera getting sold to the public?
 
Camping in a Tesla or most small cars, is mostly going to be limited by where you can actually go in one. I have a 4WD F150 that will go most anywhere, but my RV is a lightweight bumper pull and I'm pretty restricted as to where I can take it, even though it has decent ground clearance. Thinking about ditching the trailer for a simple shell with overhead pop up tent. Then I could actually get to some nicer camping spots.
 
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Camping in a Tesla or most small cars, is mostly going to be limited by where you can actually go in one. I have a 4WD F150 that will go most anywhere, but my RV is a lightweight bumper pull and I'm pretty restricted as to where I can take it, even though it has decent ground clearance. Thinking about ditching the trailer for a simple shell with overhead pop up tent. Then I could actually get to some nicer camping spots.

I have camped in the back of our SUV. Nothing fancy about it. Usually only for a night or two while doing outdoor activities. For a while, some of our friends were placing pop up tents on their suv's and trucks. If you are looking for one of these you can find fairly new ones on Craigslist and FB market place.

Bill
 
ICYM this recent news

Waymo’s driverless cars crash less often than people​


Interesting comment about L2 systems.
In contrast, the Level 2 partial automation systems that are widely available for purchase by the general public, such as General Motors’ SuperCruise or Ford’s BlueCruise, require a human driver to remain alert and ready to take over at all times. Those systems involve different risks: The monotony of supervision can lead to attention fatigue, and many drivers put too much trust in the technology.
 
I have camped in the back of our SUV. Nothing fancy about it. Usually only for a night or two while doing outdoor activities. For a while, some of our friends were placing pop up tents on their suv's and trucks. If you are looking for one of these you can find fairly new ones on Craigslist and FB market place.

Bill
What I'm looking at is the newer styled popups that are effectively on a topper/shell that mounts on the bed rails. So it looks like a full camper from outside, but the camper floor is the bed of the truck. One of the nicer ones, and the one I'd likely get, is the Tune M1. They're very expensive for what they are, but they're very well engineered and relative to other options with similar capabilities, like a 4WD Sprinter, still "cheap" by comparison.
 
These graphs popped up today in one of my threads on another site


Shows worldwide cars sales in 2025 were 25% fully electric or plug in hybrid

American Automobile Manufacturers dominated world vehicle sales at one time

Not the case at this time
 
EV vs Hybrid Sales and Market Trends

    • Hybrid Growth: Hybrid volume jumped nearly 20% in the first half of 2026, capturing a record 15.4% to nearly 20% of total U.S. market share depending on the reporting metric. [1, 2]
    • EV Slump: Fully electric vehicle market share dropped to roughly 5.3%–5.9% following the expiration of up to $7,500 in federal tax credits on September 30, 2025. [1]
    • Lot Time: Hybrids sell much faster, averaging 59 days on dealer lots compared to 114 days for EVs. [1]
    • Used Market: Used hybrid sales jumped 41.8% year-over-year in early 2026, growing nearly three times faster than used EV sales.

    Key Drivers
  • Tax Credits: The end of federal incentives made high-upfront-cost EVs less competitive.
  • No Lifestyle Change: Buyers view hybrids as a "no-friction" option that delivers high fuel efficiency without requiring home chargers or range planning.
  • Inventory: Automakers are expanding hybrid availability across popular body styles like SUVs.
 
Just got an email to get my pre-order invite for the new Ford Fathom mid-sized EV truck.

Some vehicle info here:

I thought Fathom was a short cut for "Fat Home" but the word fathom exists. I found multiple definitions for the fathom word:
  • a unit of measurement of the depth of water equal to 6 feet or 1.8 meters. So depending on the truck length, they could call them Fathom 1.0 (6 ft), Fathom 1.2 (7.2 ft), ...
  • to discover the meaning of something.
  • to understand someone or why someone acts as they do.
 
I thought Fathom was a short cut for "Fat Home" but the word fathom exists. I found multiple definitions for the fathom word:
  • a unit of measurement of the depth of water equal to 6 feet or 1.8 meters. So depending on the truck length, they could call them Fathom 1.0 (6 ft), Fathom 1.2 (7.2 ft), ...
  • to discover the meaning of something.
  • to understand someone or why someone acts as they do.
Doesn't sound like a great idea to name a new product after a measurement for being underwater unless maybe it's a submarine.
 
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