Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[Sandi Bo]

That's along the lines of what I was thinking the approach would wind up being. My thought is that the more rational approach would be:

July 31 - August 7 - book Bonnet Creek 4 BR Presidential for rental (424,000)
August 2 - August 5 - book Bonnet Creek 1 BR Deluxe in my name so I can rent the 4 BR (60,000)

Net increase in point cost = 14%. You do make a good point about insuring the deposit to further reduce the costs, though they could eliminate that option during the blackout periods to restrict it more.

Right! And might I not rebook that Aug 2-5 for 24,000 as we get within 60 days? Further reducing my cost.

There just has to be a penalty or repercussions of sorts for doing so. Obviously Bonnet Creek (or any resort) would not remove a guest that is in-house if the owner subsequently cancelled their reservation (or even was a no-show). And maybe it is just you can't cancel and lose the points if the owner doens't show up?

Again, no water I care to test, but the more you think about this, the more scenarios you can come up.

 

[dgalati]

This new list was a bold move and I admit to be surprised by the scope of it. In case someone from Wyndham is following this thread and reporting in about what's being said, whoever compiled this new list did a much, much better job this time. It could still use some more work but I doubt anyone from Wyndham is going to call me and ask for my expertise.

I know some people think Wyndham is doing this to benefit Extra Holidays. That isn't at all what these lists are about. While it's true that because of COVID there are a number of owners with points they need to use there's also more to it than that. I can say with absolute certainty that there are valid reasons that factored into the decision to do what Wyndham is doing. I'm not going to discuss what I know or how I know it but I can assure you that Wyndham believes that what they're doing will improve the ownership experience for the majority of owners. It's my personal opinion that if what they're doing doesn't bring about the desired results Wyndham will be taking other steps to accomplish their agenda.

The changes are to help availability for owners use and limit rentals. It also helps EH when long time owners give up on the rental game. It used to be a lot easier and less time was needed to rent at a profit. There comes a point where its just not worth the time or aggravation when factoring in all the new rules let alone the website bugs.

 

[dgalati]

I feel for all of those who did not find out about this on TUG or by email. This is such a nasty thing for Wyndham to do, and it really does affect more people than some might think. It's going to hurt a lot of people. At least we can give back our points that aren't platinum/ founders.

I see a lawsuit in Wyndham's future.

Lawsuits are only beneficial to lawyers. I feel for the owners that bought more points believing the sales pitch of renting extra points to pay all maintenance fees. Cancel re book, elimination of free hk's and elimination of gc's during busy or holiday weekends just drives mega renters to throw in the towel.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Lawsuits are only beneficial to lawyers. I feel for the owners that bought more points believing the sales pitch of renting extra points to pay all maintenance fees. Cancel re book, elimination of free hk's and elimination of gc's during busy or holiday weekends just drives mega renters to throw in the towel.

I wonder if they still pitch the renting extra points to cover your maintenance fees? Surely they don't pitch cancel/rebook (but nothing would surprise me).

This does also help sales, be an owner - get priority booking dates.

 

[dgalati]

Have you seen the NEW black out sites and times? Most weekends and special events will no longer be available to unaccompanied guests at some but not all resorts. It will take an Excel spreadsheet to figure out how you are affected. Thanks, Wyndham for continuing to deny me the use you sold me. So the March letter was just the camel's nose under the tent.............

More like the beginning of the end for mega renters.

 

[dgalati]

I wonder if they still pitch the renting extra points to cover your maintenance fees? Surely they don't pitch cancel/rebook (but nothing would surprise me).

This does also help sales, be an owner - get priority booking dates.

Last presentation in Vegas they were pitching this as a way to lower maintenance fees.

 

[bendadin]

Just surveying the new list:

Non-CWA Resorts

Midtown 45 (PR)
Royal Vista
MVC St Thomas (PR)
Avon (PR)
Kona
Royal Gardens
Beach Walk
Inn On Long Wharf

18 PR Resorts:

Out of 18 PR Resorts, 4 not affected:
Sundara
King Cotton
Dye Villas
Bali Hai

The majority of the resorts are CWA and I would venture a guess also in prime season.

So what we know:

CWA plays a really huge part in this
PR was hit with a larger percentage

Maybe that reclassification of non-VIP taking precedence over VIP isn't such a fluke afterall. @JanM

 

[Sandi Bo]

The majority of the resorts are CWA and I would venture a guess also in prime season.

So what we know:

CWA plays a really huge part in this
PR was hit with a larger percentage

Maybe that reclassification of non-VIP taking precedence over VIP isn't such a fluke afterall. @JanM

Why does it matter if it's CWA or PR? And what reclassification are you referring to?

 

[Cyrus24]

Jun 20-July 2 - book room and add guest
July 1- July 8 - book room in my name

Have guest checkin on June 20. On any day after that, cancel my July 1 reservation. I realize it's not that simple, I could lose the points cancelling the owner reservation, but I could have insured that, or what if I put a guest on it after June 20 but prior to July 1 - then it would auto cancel and I'd get my points back (and I have my June 20 reservation checked in).

I can't imagine running a rental business juggling these type of things. But with complicated rules come more opportunities to find loopholes/wiggle your way around things.

In your case, book 7/1-2 for yourself. If it's more cost effective, get the points protection. Add the cost to the 12 day reservation. Either don't show on 7/1 or cancel on 6/30.

As for rental businesses, I'm not associated with any rental businesses, but, if I had the points, I'd book those priority weekends for the desired room sizes along with a cheap overlap rental at the end of the rental period Add that cost to the rentals. Then, just don't show up or cancel (if you have points protection). The overlapping reservation option is a real benefit for the mega-renters, rent those high value/high demand reservations at a premium. Mega-renters win, the rest of us lose.

So easy to find loopholes. This priority policy is primed for abuse and doomed for failure.

 

[paxsarah]

Another thing I saw pointed out on Facebook is booking multiple units in the same timeframe at the same resort for rental, but just one owner unit - so that expense could be split among several rentals.

 

[VacayKat]

I wonder if they still pitch the renting extra points to cover your maintenance fees? Surely they don't pitch cancel/rebook (but nothing would surprise me).

This does also help sales, be an owner - get priority booking dates.

They still do both in my experience. Literally was told - Shell you buy the points you need, but with Wyndham, it’s a whole different mentality. Owners are about maximizing their points - rebook at 60 days so you can get double the vacation! And they heavily push ExtraHolidays every time they see how many points we have. Like they essentially say we are stupid if we aren’t doing that.

 

[MaryBella7]

I don’t rent out my points, but I have rented from others if I have run out of points. I currently have an Extra Holidays weekend rental. I am wondering if these restrictions will also impact Extra Holidays rentals? If so it seems like it could really hurt their ability to rent, too. Also when it comes to weekends, does that mean if it is ONLY a weekend rental, or a full week with the weekend attached will also be impacted?

 

[Normita]

Here is the latest from Wyndham owner services. I just got off the phone, speaking to an agent.
Apparently their computer will keep track of the two guest confirmations allowed without you being there. However, the agent said that you would be best to call owners' services to "clear" the guest confirmation to make sure that it is allowed.
If you have a reservation for a full week that includes one of the blackout weekends, it is subject to cancellation. You could try phoning and asking for owner services and grovelling. It helps to have a birthday celebration, wedding , or some similar event, and they will decide on an individual basis.
Cancellations can occur right up to the day before. She said 24 hours, and I forgot to ask about same day. Either way, it is not convenient for your guests, especially if they have airline tickets.

 

[CO skier]

Huh. Wyndham Desert Blue and Wyndham Grand Desert made the list for the last two weeks of the year (among many other times). Maybe someone at Wyndham does read these TUG threads.

That is the only explanation I can think of for why Desert Blue Las Vegas is on the list for July 4th week and Grand Desert Las Vegas is not. With the high point costs at Desert Blue relative to Grand Desert, Desert Blue would have availability within 60 days, whereas Grand Desert might not.

Why are neither of these resorts on the list for the last two weeks of the year?

or maybe it is just coincidence.

 

[chapjim]

In your case, book 7/1-2 for yourself. If it's more cost effective, get the points protection. Add the cost to the 12 day reservation. Either don't show on 7/1 or cancel on 6/30.

As for rental businesses, I'm not associated with any rental businesses, but, if I had the points, I'd book those priority weekends for the desired room sizes along with a cheap overlap rental at the end of the rental period Add that cost to the rentals. Then, just don't show up or cancel (if you have points protection). The overlapping reservation option is a real benefit for the mega-renters, rent those high value/high demand reservations at a premium. Mega-renters win, the rest of us lose.

So easy to find loopholes. This priority policy is primed for abuse and doomed for failure.

You may be right about it being doomed for failure. However, as is often the case, when something like this doesn't work, they do more of it. So, it may be better if it does work. That way they'll pat each other on the back and jolly up each other for a job well done.

Basically, what they have done is make Grand Desert, Bonnet Creek, Ocean Boulevard, and National Harbor off-limits to guests for weekends. We can work with this.

Edit: Add Indio, which I don't understand. Is Indio that much in demand? I know where it is. I've been there and have no burning desire to go back.

 

[rickandcindy23]

According to our daughter, this is a policy that has no end date, so this isn't just about this year, necessarily. This could be ongoing forever. I see us dumping a lot of points and keeping the points associated with the Platinum/ Founders ownership. I am hoping Wyndham will still allow us to use Ovations.

But I did credit pool points for two years out, so there's that.

I kind of thought the policy might be because mega renters had a lot of points credit pooled and had to be used this year, which created a lack of inventory for others. Now it's clear that Wyndham is just restricting rentals for good.

BocaBum99 used to argue that platinum members get inventory for a discount that resale buyers and owners without status didn't take when they had a chance. I agree with that. So IMHO any talk of how platinum members are taking all of the inventory is a weak argument for all that might think we are getting what we deserve. We pay a lot of maintenance fees and purchased developer on the promise that we could have unlimited guest certificates (that was taken away) and we could rent our excess points.

The decision to use Ovations for our resale points will be easy to make. But I do worry about those credit pooled points. Using those will be tough and the timing has to be just right. RCI may not be an option.

 

[CO skier]

BocaBum99 used to argue that platinum members get inventory for a discount that resale buyers and owners without status didn't take when they had a chance. I agree with that.

That must have been waaay back in the days of cancel/rebook. It was a false argument then, because VIP owners would book 3 and 4 bedroom Presidentials at 13 months, then cancel/rebook or cancel-upgrade from a 1 bedroom at 60 days for the VIP discount.

Now that these 3 and 4 bedroom Presidentials are not profitable rentals without the VIP discount, owners who bought into Club Wyndham for their personal use are booking these units at full points cost to take their family on vacation. I do not see how anyone can object to that.

These new restrictions just extend the idea that owners who bought into Club Wyndham for their personal use should have priority over commercial renting, which is, after all, against the rules. I do not see how anyone can object to that.

 

[chapjim]

That must have been waaay back in the days of cancel/rebook. It was a false argument then, because VIP owners would book 3 and 4 bedroom Presidentials at 13 months, then cancel/rebook or cancel-upgrade from a 1 bedroom at 60 days for the VIP discount.

<snip>

BocaBum99 and rickandcindy23 are right. It is true now and has nothing to do with cancel/re-book.

I look for rentable units two months before check-in -- units that have been passed over by all other owners for the previous eight to eleven months. I do not see how anyone can object to that.

 

[rickandcindy23]

A new Wyndham outlet for rentals: https://www.panoramatravelsolutions.com/v6

This is the reason for the limitations on renting inventory. They are making money any way they can, and it will cost owners.

 

[CO skier]

BocaBum99 and rickandcindy23 are right. It is true now and has nothing to do with cancel/re-book.

I look for rentable units two months before check-in -- units that have been passed over by all other owners for the previous eight to eleven months. I do not see how anyone can object to that.

Do you really expect us to believe that the National Harbor 2 bedroom Presidential was just sitting there for "eight to eleven months?"

Wyndham National Harbor, 2BR Presidential, July 17-24

$800 Floor plan may be different. PM me, please!

tugbbs.com

Of course not; you got lucky and found a cancellation that an owner had reserved at full points months and months earlier. Which is fine and within the rules, except for the commercial renting rule.

You just want to deflect from my point about Bocabum99's false argument; owners (did and) do want the highly sought after units that were previously booked and re-booked within 60 days for the VIP discount using the cancel-rebook scam. And now they are finding these units available and booking them at full points cost.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Do you really expect us to believe that the National Harbor 2 bedroom Presidential was just sitting there for "eight to eleven months?"

Wyndham National Harbor, 2BR Presidential, July 17-24

$800 Floor plan may be different. PM me, please!

tugbbs.com

Of course not; you got lucky and found a cancellation that an owner had reserved at full points months and months earlier. Which is fine and within the rules, except for the commercial renting rule.

You just want to deflect from my point about Bocabum99's false argument; owners (did and) do want the highly sought after units that were previously booked and re-booked within 60 days for the VIP discount using the cancel-rebook scam. And now they are finding these units available and booking them at full points cost.

To cancel and rebook within 60 days for the discount, you have to be online at exactly the right time to get a reservation back. That is something our daughter hadn't figured out. Used to be, before the "update/downgrade" a few years ago, we could do that, but that is no longer something we can do without risk of losing the reservation completely. Inventory randomly comes back, and there is no telling when it will make a comeback.

Go ahead and argue that we are the evil ones and not Wyndham. Wyndham's product was always sold as a means of income, even in 2005, our first presentation was all about making money, and we walked away because I was in disbelief. That salesperson told me about TUG, and BocaBum99 and a few others here were instrumental in our decision to acquire platinum benefits, and we paid for it, but the payoff on the investment was immediate, and thank goodness that we can walk away from everything but those still-valuable benefits of our original platinum purchase. The rest of the resale points can go back to Wyndham.

 

[Sandi Bo]

A new Wyndham outlet for rentals: https://www.panoramatravelsolutions.com/v6

This is the reason for the limitations on renting inventory. They are making money any way they can, and it will cost owners.

So isn't this what is driving all of this? Blame it on "megarenters" and looky loo!

 

[rickandcindy23]

So isn't this what is driving all of this? Blame it on "megarenters" and looky loo!

Wyndham has a grand plan. They will get more buyers through their rental sites. How many more rental sites are out there that have Wyndham's name embedded in them.

I remember Kendra from back in the day who was rightly outraged by Wyndham's touting the benefits of owning platinum and free guest certificates (unlimited back then). She actually lost her home after that loss of income. Kendra owned a website that had Wyndham included in the name [of that website]. She was threatened and gave up the website but basically sold her rights to the site for free guest certificates for a while. She would never say how she settled with Wyndham.

Others also won lawsuits over the guest certificate rule change. But none would come here and tell us what happened and how they benefitted from the suits.

 

[CO skier]

Go ahead and argue that we are the evil ones and not Wyndham.

Those who violate the rules and use Club Wyndham for commercial puposes are certainly not the innocent ones.

 

[chapjim]

Do you really expect us to believe that the National Harbor 2 bedroom Presidential was just sitting there for "eight to eleven months?"

Wyndham National Harbor, 2BR Presidential, July 17-24

$800 Floor plan may be different. PM me, please!

tugbbs.com

Of course not; you got lucky and found a cancellation that an owner had reserved at full points months and months earlier. Which is fine and within the rules, except for the commercial renting rule.

You just want to deflect from my point about Bocabum99's false argument; owners (did and) do want the highly sought after units that were previously booked and re-booked within 60 days for the VIP discount using the cancel-rebook scam. And now they are finding these units available and booking them at full points cost.

Considering what a 2 BR Presidential unit costs at full price (400,000 in prime season), I have no difficulty thinking it was (or they were) available for months. Lots of Wyndham owners don't have 400,000 points in their account. For whatever reasons and circumstances, they were available and bookable by any Wyndham owner that had sufficient points available.

You dragged the cancel-rebook thing into the discussion when bocabum said. ". . . platinum members get inventory for a discount that resale buyers and owners without status didn't take when they had a chance . . . ." That has nothing to do with cancel-rebook. Maybe these 2BR Presidential units were previously booked and canceled. The fact remains that if someone had found these units before I did, they could have booked them. That didn't happen.