Wyndham limiting access by non-owners during most sought-after dates/locations

[wjappraise]

Those who violate the rules and use Club Wyndham for commercial puposes are certainly not the innocent ones.

I think you missed the point. Not sure why some are blatant Wyndham apologists. But Cindy was making the accurate point that for more than a decade Wyndham sales told us to buy more points to reach the level we could use cancel and rebook and turn around and sell the rental unit. Sales even told me to call the Wyndham owner reservation line and have them cancel the unit and rebook it. It was a much less risky way to do it. So clearly sales and customer service were offering at least tacit approval to this technique and sales profited mightily from it.

So don’t act like owners who rent reservations are somehow now “violating” the rules like a criminal. History may have conveniently been forgotten by some. But others of us here are going to call you out on it. Your post is both inaccurate and inflammatory. You can do better.

Wes.

 

[wjappraise]

Considering what a 2 BR Presidential unit costs at full price (400,000 in prime season), I have no difficulty thinking it was or they were available for months. Lots of Wyndham owners don't have 400,000 points in their account. For whatever reasons and circumstances, they were available and bookable by any Wyndham owner that had sufficient points available.

You dragged the cancel-rebook thing into the discussion when bocabum said. ". . . platinum members get inventory for a discount that resale buyers and owners without status didn't take when they had a chance . . . ." That has nothing to do with cancel-rebook. Maybe these 2BR Presidential units were previously booked and canceled. The fact remains that if someone had found these units before I did, they could have booked them. That didn't happen.

You are correct. Perfect example - a four bedroom presidential unit is available right now for Clearwater for thanksgiving week. Of course it’s 650,000 points. It’s just sitting there - for months now - just waiting for CoSkier to go reserve it. Or will he just ignore it.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I encourage everyone who has been "renting" Wyndham, even if you are only renting at very modest levels, to call Wyndham's customer care department and complain about the new changes of policy and get some clarification on the two guest certificates. I believe you are all mistaken that it is some kind of loophole.

As an English major, who makes a lot of mistakes in written and spoken word (admittedly), I have to state that this letter to owners is confusing, poorly written, and I believe is meant to purposely confuse us. They want us to make assumptions, but do not assume. Make the phone call to Wyndham and find out for sure what the policy is. Be sure to register your complaint or voice your concern over the new policy.

 

[Jan M.]

That must have been waaay back in the days of cancel/rebook. It was a false argument then, because VIP owners would book 3 and 4 bedroom Presidentials at 13 months, then cancel/rebook or cancel-upgrade from a 1 bedroom at 60 days for the VIP discount.

Now that these 3 and 4 bedroom Presidentials are not profitable rentals without the VIP discount, owners who bought into Club Wyndham for their personal use are booking these units at full points cost to take their family on vacation. I do not see how anyone can object to that.

These new restrictions just extend the idea that owners who bought into Club Wyndham for their personal use should have priority over commercial renting, which is, after all, against the rules. I do not see how anyone can object to that.

Clearly the full point reservations in the big units must be profitable. Take a look on eBay at the Wyndham rentals. Then narrow it down to looking at all the listings a seller has and do that for several sellers. I think you'll be just as surprised as I was about how many 3 and 4 bedroom full point reservations are being offered. Dates that aren't in the discount and upgrade window. From what I remember back in the days of cancel/rebook most of the full point rentals offered were for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, 4th of July, special events like Bike Week or a big race week, etc. Maybe I'm mistaken about that? From what I saw on eBay it looks to me like the owners who do a lot of renting will book anything and everything at full points in the big units. It doesn't matter when it is; they'll book it at full points. And there must be enough profit in it to make it worth their while. After looking at a couple of sellers and what they have at several of the most rented resorts I found myself thinking that a huge percentage of the 3 and 4 bedroom units at these resorts have to be occupied by renters rather than owners. I was not expecting to see what I saw and wondered if owners are really any better off at this point than they were pre-Voyager.

When Wyndham's made repeated attempts to control the renting you have to figure at some point when nothing they've done has worked that they'll eventually be forced to to something that will work. It follows that there are owners who are going to be impacted even though they aren't the ones Wyndham is targeting and they won't be happy. Nor will the owners who Wyndham is targeting be happy.

I'm not going to get into a debate with anyone about Wyndham being the biggest renter of all or them not being able to define "commercial renting". You might as well give that up right now because that line of reasoning will get you absolutely nowhere. The important thing to remember is that it's Wyndham's game, they make the rules, it's their ball and their their court. We pay to play. Some of us paid a lot more than others to be allowed to play. If anyone did so based on what they were told that contradicts the verbiage in what they signed when they bought, well it sucks and life isn't fair. I know some of you will say but what will Wyndham do when so many owners decide to be done with Wyndham? That Wyndham won't risk losing them. Think again and quit deluding yourself. Wyndham is exercising right of first refusal on CWA contracts when they come in to be transferred. Someone, if not Wyndham then I don't know who it could possibly be, is drying up the resale market. Those of us who watch the eBay listings for fun or with the intent to buy have been commenting on this. It's pretty darn clear that Wyndham is fully prepared to handle any fallout from what they're trying to accomplish or we wouldn't be seeing this second list come out.

I've already seen people here on TUG and on Facebook saying there will be lawsuits. What exactly do you think that will get you but a lot of your time wasted and any attorney on your case getting richer? If you bought developer and if you're lucky, at best you'll end up with a fraction of what you paid after the attorneys get their fees and/or expenses. Wyndham gets lawsuits brought against them all the time and they typically settle out of court with a non disclosure agreement and those owners being "no longer an owner". In some cases those owners cannot ever own Wyndham again or even stay at a Wyndham property. Some owners may be fine with that.

 

[wjappraise]

I encourage everyone who has been "renting" Wyndham, even if you are only renting at very modest levels, to call Wyndham's customer care department and complain about the new changes of policy and get some clarification on the two guest certificates. I believe you are all mistaken that it is some kind of loophole.

As an English major, who makes a lot of mistakes in written and spoken word (admittedly), I have to state that this letter to owners is confusing, poorly written, and I believe is meant to purposely confuse us. They want us to make assumptions, but do not assume. Make the phone call to Wyndham and find out for sure what the policy is. Be sure to register your complaint or voice your concern over the new policy.

Thanks Cindy.

It seems like a logistics nightmare for us as owners to navigate. And just think of the nightmare this presents to Wyndham IT to correctly track this!!! And we all know (even CO skier has to agree) that Wyndham IT should certainly be devoting it’s resources to actually providing a reliable website - not providing a mafia hit on EH competition.

Wes.

 

[55plus]

I pick up a lot of cancelled units within the 60 day timeframe, but they are for mine and my family's use. If I need a firm date during a demand timeframe I book it ahead. If something that will work comes available within the discount window I book it and cancel the other. I seldom stay some place at full points.

 

[wjappraise]

The timing of this suggests that the prior comments from one of the Wyndham IT helpers here wasn’t accurate. When she was asked “why such a short notice?” the response was that it had been planned much earlier to give owners a good amount of time to adjust their reservations and add guest names as needed, but the final approval for the wording took too long so it resulted in owners only having a few hours (if they even got the email) to adjust.

Now we have the same exact notice- a few hours. So it’s clear they were lying to Richelle then. And this is how they will foist changes on us - with no real advance warning.

Terrible treatment of customers (we like to call ourselves owners, but we clearly are not in Wyndham’s view, we are customers, cash cows).

Wes.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Clearly the full point reservations in the big units must be profitable. Take a look on eBay at the Wyndham rentals. Then narrow it down to looking at all the listings a seller has and do that for several sellers. I think you'll be just as surprised as I was about how many 3 and 4 bedroom full point reservations are being offered. Dates that aren't in the discount and upgrade window. From what I remember back in the days of cancel/rebook most of the full point rentals offered were for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, 4th of July, special events like Bike Week or a big race week, etc. Maybe I'm mistaken about that? From what I saw on eBay it looks to me like the owners who do a lot of renting will book anything and everything at full points in the big units. It doesn't matter when it is; they'll book it at full points. And there must be enough profit in it to make it worth their while. After looking at a couple of sellers and what they have at several of the most rented resorts I found myself thinking that a huge percentage of the 3 and 4 bedroom units at these resorts have to be occupied by renters rather than owners. I was not expecting to see what I saw and wondered if owners are really any better off at this point than they were pre-Voyager.

When Wyndham's made repeated attempts to control the renting you have to figure at some point when nothing they've done has worked that they'll eventually be forced to to something that will work. It follows that there are owners who are going to be impacted even though they aren't the ones Wyndham is targeting and they won't be happy. Nor will the owners who Wyndham is targeting be happy.

I'm not going to get into a debate with anyone about Wyndham being the biggest renter of all or them not being able to define "commercial renting". You might as well give that up right now because that line of reasoning will get you absolutely nowhere. The important thing to remember is that it's Wyndham's game, they make the rules, it's their ball and their their court. We pay to play. Some of us paid a lot more than others to be allowed to play. If anyone did so based on what they were told that contradicts the verbiage in what they signed when they bought, well it sucks and life isn't fair. I know some of you will say but what will Wyndham do when so many owners decide to be done with Wyndham? That Wyndham won't risk losing them. Think again and quit deluding yourself. Wyndham is exercising right of first refusal on CWA contracts when they come in to be transferred. Someone, if not Wyndham then I don't know who it could possibly be, is drying up the resale market. Those of us who watch the eBay listings for fun or with the intent to buy have been commenting on this. It's pretty darn clear that Wyndham is fully prepared to handle any fallout from what they're trying to accomplish or we wouldn't be seeing this second list come out.

I've already seen people here on TUG and on Facebook saying there will be lawsuits. What exactly do you think that will get you but a lot of your time wasted and any attorney on your case getting richer? If you bought developer and if you're lucky at best you'll end up with a fraction of what you paid after the attorneys get their fees and/or expenses. Wyndham gets lawsuits brought against them all the time and they typically settle out of court with a non disclosure agreement and those owners being "no longer an owner". In some cases those owners cannot ever own Wyndham again or even stay at a Wyndham property. Some owners may be fine with that.

Oh, Jan, you are so right. Wyndham might lose something in a big lawsuit but not enough to hurt them, and I have made enough money over the years to just call Ovations and give it back. Our daughter will be hurt by this more than we will be.

I just kind of thought the policy might be temporary to allow owners that are not platinum, gold or silver to use their points after Covid, and with no clarification as to an end date to these resorts not being available for booking guests, it stands to reason that the policy is not about Covid and a shortage of inventory for other owners to use their ownerships.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I pick up a lot of cancelled units within the 60 day timeframe, but they are for mine and my family's use. If I need a firm date during a demand timeframe I book it ahead. If something that will work comes available within the discount window I book it and cancel the other. I seldom stay some place at full points.

As long as those family members are on your account, you should be fine. But if you have to add guest names, that could become a problem for even booking for family. Our kids are all on our membership, but one daughter-in-law is not listed on the membership.

I always told my aunt and my sister that we look enough alike that I could loan them my driver's license and credit card to check into one of the resorts without a guest certificate, but I was joking about it. Now, I don't know. My sister most especially could pass as me.

 

[chapjim]

<snip>

As an English major, who makes a lot of mistakes in written and spoken word (admittedly), I have to state that this letter to owners is confusing, poorly written, and I believe is meant to purposely confuse us. They want us to make assumptions, but do not assume. Make the phone call to Wyndham and find out for sure what the policy is. Be sure to register your complaint or voice your concern over the new policy.

I thought it was just me that thought the letter could have been written more clearly and with less ambiguity. I'm not convinced we know what Wyndham meant when they wrote the part about two guest confirmations/year and whether there is a loophole there as some have suggested. I won't be the first to try it out!

 

[paxsarah]

As an English major, who makes a lot of mistakes in written and spoken word (admittedly), I have to state that this letter to owners is confusing, poorly written, and I believe is meant to purposely confuse us.

I found the letter (email) to be very clear.

The website wording, however, is a hot mess. Given that the two sources don’t convey the same message, Wyndham needs to clean that up ASAP.

 

[55plus]

Surprisingly, Glacier Canyon isn't on the list during the 4th of July. I was able to pick up several units during that timeframe within the discount window. There was a big reservation dump a few days ago. A number of them were two bedroom units so I was able to upgrade from one bedroom units. It's all about timing.

 

[lost patience]

I have a friend that was platinum. July 2020 at Wyndham Cottages he went to the sales presentation. They convinced him to purchase ~300k additional to get to Founders. They provided him with the name of a megarenter. They called the megarenter during the sales pitch to coordinate the megarenter renting the extra points so that it would cover the cost of the ~300k purchase. No, I did not see the math, cause I'm pretty sure it will not work. But wanted to share that "YES" sales staff pushes renting. (At least last July they did)

 

[wjappraise]

I found the letter (email) to be very clear.

The website wording, however, is a hot mess. Given that the two sources don’t convey the same message, Wyndham needs to clean that up ASAP.

There are numerous folks here smarter than I am. And certainly I am far from an English major. So maybe some of you can help me.

Did I miss it, or is there a need for better explanation of the limitations in place for weekend stays? Does that mean it limits guest from staying that are only booked for the two nights comprising a weekend (Friday and Saturday)? Would a guest be allowed to stay for seven nights as this wouldn’t be a weekend stay? Or can a guest only stay on Sunday to Thursday nights? So many questions and no real answers!

And the IT department is already overmatched. I predict a real sh** storm.

I’m your weather man.

Wes.

 

[paxsarah]

Did I miss it, or is there a need for better explanation of the limitations in place for weekend stays?

I guess it’s probably not in there, but I assume that because this is an extension/expansion of the policy put in place in March that the same rules apply - that a single night overlapping with the restricted dates will subject the reservation to cancellation (if applicable under the new allowances).

All the more reason they need to clarify the language on the website and make it a prominent link in multiple places. The website should be the canonical source for the details of this policy, and it shouldn’t be something an owner needs to know to search for - it should be staring them in the face all over the owner website, because this policy is obviously here to stay for a while.

 

[lost patience]

Here is the latest from Wyndham owner services. I just got off the phone, speaking to an agent.
Apparently their computer will keep track of the two guest confirmations allowed without you being there. However, the agent said that you would be best to call owners' services to "clear" the guest confirmation to make sure that it is allowed.
If you have a reservation for a full week that includes one of the blackout weekends, it is subject to cancellation. You could try phoning and asking for owner services and grovelling. It helps to have a birthday celebration, wedding , or some similar event, and they will decide on an individual basis.
Cancellations can occur right up to the day before. She said 24 hours, and I forgot to ask about same day. Either way, it is not convenient for your guests, especially if they have airline tickets.

I just called and the are closed "for the holiday". How did you get through?

 

[dgalati]

Thanks Cindy.

It seems like a logistics nightmare for us as owners to navigate. And just think of the nightmare this presents to Wyndham IT to correctly track this!!! And we all know (even CO skier has to agree) that Wyndham IT should certainly be devoting it’s resources to actually providing a reliable website - not providing a mafia hit on EH competition.

Wes.

Looks like most resources are going to limiting or encumbering the rental game. The web experience is taking a back seat to eliminating owners that rent more then they personally use.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I found the letter (email) to be very clear.

The website wording, however, is a hot mess. Given that the two sources don’t convey the same message, Wyndham needs to clean that up ASAP.

I did not get the email. (And saw your other post, thank you, i am the point of contact under my ownership, but not receiving emails that I should).

 

[Sandi Bo]

Looks like most resources are going to limiting or encumbering the rental game. The web experience is taking a back seat to eliminating owners that rent more then they personally use.

Why not specify what is legitimate use and what is not. Rather than EVERYTHING being subject to interpretation. Wyndham makes the timeshare business the slimy business it is. Unless they don't want to have to follow the same rules we do?

 

[dgalati]

I have a friend that was platinum. July 2020 at Wyndham Cottages he went to the sales presentation. They convinced him to purchase ~300k additional to get to Founders. They provided him with the name of a megarenter. They called the megarenter during the sales pitch to coordinate the megarenter renting the extra points so that it would cover the cost of the ~300k purchase. No, I did not see the math, cause I'm pretty sure it will not work. But wanted to share that "YES" sales staff pushes renting. (At least last July they did)

Wyndham math never adds up! Like I said earlier sales is still promoting and selling more points to cover all maintenance fees.. Corporate turns a blind eye when it comes to padding the bottom line.

 

[dgalati]

Why not specify what is legitimate use and what is not. Rather than EVERYTHING being subject to interpretation. Wyndham makes the timeshare business the slimy business it is. Unless they don't want to have to follow the same rules we do?

The whole business is filled with sharks. Starting with the parking pass desk, to sales and the exit teams. Like Jan said its their game and they make the rules. Even if the rules differ from what sales is saying to sell more points. I found out that you will never get a defined set of rules as they are a moving target and subject to change when they feel it necessary.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Anyone who gets the official word via email about guest confirmations being allowed when the owner is on property, please copy/paste the email here, so we can be clear on that policy. Even after a phone call to owner care, the policy is not clear to me. The written word is always better for clarification (unless it's written as poorly as the information we received so far).

 

[paxsarah]

Anyone who gets the official word via email about guest confirmations being allowed when the owner is on property, please copy/paste the email here, so we can be clear on that policy. Even after a phone call to owner care, the policy is not clear to me. The written word is always better for clarification (unless it's written as poorly as the information we received so far).

Do you mean clarification beyond this?

• Allowing you to bring guests with you when you will be visiting these identified resorts during the select travel dates. As long as the owner and guest reservation(s) have an overlapping day, you may reserve as many guest reservations as you would like.

 

[dioxide45]

Do you mean clarification beyond this?

The problem is that it was indicated that it conflicts with the website that says this;

You can travel with your guests to these resorts during the dates listed below and may use two guest confirmations during the restricted dates. Any guest reservations made after the dates listed below at the following resorts during the select peak travel periods will be subject to cancellation (including guests added to an existing reservation after those dates).

Though I don't really think it does. The problem is that on the website they are trying to say two different things in the same sentence.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Anyone who gets the official word via email about guest confirmations being allowed when the owner is on property, please copy/paste the email here, so we can be clear on that policy. Even after a phone call to owner care, the policy is not clear to me. The written word is always better for clarification (unless it's written as poorly as the information we received so far).

Here are the three bullet points from the email:

With owner feedback in mind, we’re making several enhancements to this effort, including:

• Adding even more resorts and travel dates where owner travel will be prioritized. Your owner website is the best place to find the most up-to-date information about the select destinations and travel periods so that you can plan your vacations accordingly.

• Allowing you to bring guests with you when you will be visiting these identified resorts during the select travel dates. As long as the owner and guest reservation(s) have an overlapping day, you may reserve as many guest reservations as you would like.

• For reservations at identified resorts during the select travel periods when you are not traveling with your guests, up to two times a year, you can use a Guest Confirmation from your annual allotment. Guest reservations during these peak times in excess of the two allowed will be subject to cancellation.


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