We are a cynical bunch on TUG. Can you believe people today are buying full-freight?

[ace2000]

Further I paid $ 1.00 for a two bedroom fixed week in escapes at stonebridge in Branson.. Also happy ! now thats value !!!

That's hilarious. I also own at Stonebridge. Ever try to rent your week? I couldn't even get $450 for a prime summer week last year. I eventually decided to just use it myself. My maintenance fees are almost $700. Do you think I see value?

 

[Beefnot]

That's hilarious. I also own at Stonebridge. Ever try to rent your week? I couldn't even get $450 for a prime summer week last year. I eventually decided to just use it myself. My maintenance fees are almost $700. Do you think I see value?

I am closing on a 2BR at another resort in Branson and they are effectively paying me a net ~$1,200 to take it. I will never, ever go to Branson, and don't really care what I can rent a summer week for there. At ~$500 MF, it will be a cheap trader for me, even if I have to refresh 5 times a day on II during Flexchange.

 

[timeos2]

Something as simple as what TUG Brian has suggested; HOAs can make a better offer to their owners than the PCCs and accept deed backs with a payment equal to 2 or 3 years mf; would be a start

But that is no answer at all! All it does it kick the problem up to three years down the road - if the fees don't rise - in the end when the estimated fees run out the other owners are left paying for the returned weeks. Without a guaranteed plan to get those ownerships moved to new takers it doesn't matter how much is collected up front or if it's accepted back immediately for zero dollars. The other owners are now forced to pay the fees and the by laws, and condo law in geneal do not allow that burden to be placed on them unilaterally by the Board/Association. They would have to modify the Association documents to allow that which is the same super majority usually required to disband the HOA. Almost impossible to achieve.

If these types of proposals are going to be meaningful then they need to include how/where those weeks will go to avoid placing the fees on the other owners. Otherwise it is not a possibility (except in the unlikely event that your resort documents were written to allow that).

 

[ronparise]

But that is no answer at all! All it does it kick the problem up to three years down the road - if the fees don't rise - in the end when the estimated fees run out the other owners are left paying for the returned weeks. Without a guaranteed plan to get those ownerships moved to new takers it doesn't matter how much is collected up front or if it's accepted back immediately for zero dollars. The other owners are now forced to pay the fees and the by laws, and condo law in geneal do not allow that burden to be placed on them unilaterally by the Board/Association. They would have to modify the Association documents to allow that which is the same super majority usually required to disband the HOA. Almost impossible to achieve.

If these types of proposals are going to be meaningful then they need to include how/where those weeks will go to avoid placing the fees on the other owners. Otherwise it is not a possibility (except in the unlikely event that your resort documents were written to allow that).

Of course fees will rise, of course its kicking the can down the road of course there is no guarantee. but I still think a HOA needs a better plan to deal with unproductive intervals than just contracting with a collections company and foreclosure attorney

I also know that the PCCs are making a ton of money exploiting this inability, or unwillingness to act

I keep hearing what an association cant do.....what can they do?

I know Im like a certain political figure I see in the news......Ive got a million ideas and most of them are bad, but there are HOAs where your do nothing approach is just not working

On second thought...John...you win...You have convinced me that if I dont want to pay my fees, I dont have to..the HOA cant or wont do a thing about it In fact Im going to the Post Office today to buy some stamps and some post cards...Im going into business

 

[timeos2]

Of course fees will rise, of course its kicking the can down the road of course there is no guarantee. but I still think a HOA needs a better plan to deal with unproductive intervals than just contracting with a collections company and foreclosure attorney

I know Im like a certain political figure I see in the news......Ive got a million ideas and most of them are bad, but there are HOAs where your do nothing approach is just not working

On second thought...John...you win...You have convinced me that if I dont want to pay my fees, I dont have to..the HOA cant or wont do a thing about it In fact Im going to the Post Office today to buy some stamps and some post cards...Im going into business

A well run HOA WILL be doing something. The things they are both empowered and required to do by the rules. Collect the fees needed, bill all owners the same (per the docs), maintain & improve the resort for the owners. If they aren't doing that you need a new Board. But they CAN'T overstep their rights and commit you the owner, who bought under a tightly regulated set of convenents and regulations, to fees you never agreed to pay. IF the proper procedures of collections & legal foreclosure are followed then, and only then, the owners have agreed, by the law, they will pay the fees. No Association I know of has in the documents that they will take on any and all ownerships no longer desired by other owners & charge the remaining owners the fees. None. It is not legal to do so. Wait & see if any resort actually does it wholesale & see if the Board, management and delinquent owners aren't sued. If they are - and they should be - they will lose. It's the law.

 

[rickandcindy23]

A well run HOA WILL be doing something. The things they are both empowered and required to do by the rules. Collect the fees needed, bill all owners the same (per the docs), maintain & improve the resort for the owners. If they aren't doing that you need a new Board. But they CAN'T overstep their rights and commit you the owner, who bought under a tightly regulated set of convenents and regulations, to fees you never agreed to pay. IF the proper procedures of collections & legal foreclosure are followed then, and only then, the owners have agreed, by the law, they will pay the fees. No Association I know of has in the documents that they will take on any and all ownerships no longer desired by other owners & charge the remaining owners the fees. None. It is not legal to do so. Wait & see if any resort actually does it wholesale & see if the Board, management and delinquent owners aren't sued. If they are - and they should be - they will lose. It's the law.

Well said. This is why I was upset when our resort manager at Twin Rivers announced in a newsletter that we had been taking back all deeds when asked, but we were now only taking back a certain number per year. First come, first served, basically.

There had never been any kind of understanding that we would ever take back anything, but we did. No announcement before, yet she felt it important to say this in a newsletter. And the dummies on the board thought she was perfectly okay to say it. Good thing the board is insured against lawsuits for being stupid, because they are.

 

[ronparise]

A well run HOA WILL be doing something. The things they are both empowered and required to do by the rules. Collect the fees needed, bill all owners the same (per the docs), maintain & improve the resort for the owners. If they aren't doing that you need a new Board. But they CAN'T overstep their rights and commit you the owner, who bought under a tightly regulated set of convenents and regulations, to fees you never agreed to pay. IF the proper procedures of collections & legal foreclosure are followed then, and only then, the owners have agreed, by the law, they will pay the fees. No Association I know of has in the documents that they will take on any and all ownerships no longer desired by other owners & charge the remaining owners the fees. None. It is not legal to do so. Wait & see if any resort actually does it wholesale & see if the Board, management and delinquent owners aren't sued. If they are - and they should be - they will lose. It's the law.

John you can win an argument with me by making up something I never said....I didnt say that a board should accept all deed backs

Im only suggesting that if non payment and foreclosures are a problem at a resort, do something about it...either do something positive to encourage payment. Or if its too late for that do something with the weeks you (the HOA) own

If you dont; the good Doctor Rich is coming to visit

 

[timeos2]

John you can win an argument with me by making up something I never said....I didnt say that a board should accept all deed backs

Im only suggesting that if non payment and foreclosures are a problem at a resort, do something about it...either do something positive to encourage payment. Or if its too late for that do something with the weeks you (the HOA) own

If you dont; the good Doctor Rich is coming to visit

Ron - Not trying to put words in your mouth but merely carrying what you are asking for out to it's conclusion. IF the resort intends to take back ownerships from even one member then, again by condo law, EVERY owner must get the same opportunity. You cannot treat one differently than another. So, technically, once the offer is made to one 100% of the owners have the opportunity to do the same.

Now a creative Association will not make the offer. But nthey may advise owners that there is a third party, perhaps independent management, a reseller, n individual buyer - anyone not directly associated with the resort that can act on their own. If they wish to accept deeds back then they are free to do so. Before they did I would assume they have an outlet for them or a rental program to pay the fees due. If so great! Everyone wins! If no such organization or individual exists then the Association had better not offer to take them back either.

It isn't the end of the world. There are ways to handle it up to and including closing unworkable resorts. But it needs to be fair to every owner and treat them all equally. It cannot favor one or ten or hundred by passing their fees to the other remaining owners unless the whole Association votes to do so. Condo's by law must act in fairness to all.

Believe me I want there to be an easy answer - one size fits all. But there isn't. And it is up to each resort to sort it out and act in their owners best interests or suffer the consequences.

 

[e.bram]

John:
"But nthey may advise owners that there is a third party, perhaps independent management, a reseller, n individual buyer - anyone not directly associated with the resort that can act on their own. If they wish to accept deeds back then they are free to do so."
Sounds like a PCC you're endorsing?

 

[Beefnot]

Ron - Not trying to put words in your mouth but merely carrying what you are asking for out to it's conclusion. IF the resort intends to take back ownerships from even one member then, again by condo law, EVERY owner must get the same opportunity. You cannot treat one differently than another. So, technically, once the offer is made to one 100% of the owners have the opportunity to do the same.

That is inaccurate. Every condo owner must be afforded the same opportunity to avail themselves of any program offered by the condo association. If the HOA passes a program that allowed for deedbacks for those who met a defined set of criteria, then all condo owners have the same opportunity to apply. It does not mean that the HOA would have to accept all deedbacks without qualification. There is a distinction.

 

[ronparise]

Ok, John

lets take it to a logical conclusion.

Whats wrong with taking them all back....If the resort is a place that has has some value, and people want to own there, the board has nothing to worry about. I dont see the problem...folks that would take advantage of such a program probably arent paying anyway.

 

[timeos2]

Ok, John

lets take it to a logical conclusion.

Whats wrong with taking them all back....If the resort is a place that has has some value, and people want to own there, the board has nothing to worry about. I dont see the problem...folks that would take advantage of such a program probably arent paying anyway.

That is a big part of the problem. If the 90%+ that are usually paying suddenly see the fees go up $20-$50-$100 or more - as it easily can with just a 5-10% deed back rate - then they TOO want to deed back - and it just would accelerate. It is almost a guaranteed death sentence even for a resort that wasn't in any real trouble before (and could have easily handled it with the existing collections/foreclosure cycle the rules call for). If 25-50% are asking to deed back NOW or aren't paying then I'm on the side of "shut it down".

As for every owner getting the same opportunity that is exactly what I meant. IF the Association takes back one from an otherwise paid up owner then they are obligated to take every owners (that offers it). You think that when fee go through the roof to cover those who wanted out easily the rest won't too? And who pays then? And if the Association folds who takes it back? It just isn't a workable plan which is why condo docs aren't written to say "we must take back ownerships if offered". That doesn't exist.

 

[Beefnot]

The HOA could choose to only accept deedbacks if only certain hardship criteria were met. Or they could require 3 yrs maintenance fees. So only owners who met the criteria or forfeited 3 yrs. maintenance fees could deedback. In conjunction, they could hire a rent-a-weasel or local real estate agent to help move "quaranrined" units. Alas, we have diverted this thread into the solving-the-timeshare-problem debate again.

 

[ampaholic]

... Alas, we have diverted this thread into the solving-the-timeshare-problem debate again.

Yea, a lot of threads fall into that rut

 

[robcrusoe]

[DELETED - robcrusoe - Have you had a chance to read the posting rules? - DeniseM Moderator]

Be Courteous
As we read and respond to others, disagreements are inevitable. Differing points of view are welcomed, and indeed the bbs would be a dull place without them. All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly. Refrain from name calling and behavior lectures. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offenses could get you banned from the bbs. Lively discussion is what the board is all about, but that is no excuse for boorish behavior or bad manners. We are assumed to all be adults. If you don't like a particular thread, stop reading it!

 

[Beefnot]

It's better than starting a nonsensical thread with "We are a cynical bunch on TUG. Can you believe people today are buying full-freight?"

What is nonsensical about that?

 

[vacationhopeful]

Handed out the TUG info Thursday in the pool to a guy. $16,000 for Wyndham to take his FW Fairfield unit into points via a buying more points and a "trade". Brought 2 days earlier. He was already a Platimum owner and still working (he and wife) as school teachers.

I told him where the nearest Post Office was -- walking distance of 1/2 mile.

 

[vacationhopeful]

On Saturday night, handed out TUG info to 2 ladies at the TIKI bar. Thier converted FWs to points was costing them $2400 in MFs for 189,000 Wyndham points. Newport off season weeks.

Told them to GIVE away those units and buy eBay resale points.

Could/should have told them to TRADE those weeks into a purchase of more points via the developer -- less hassle, but quicker and move up to VIP before the points requirement change.

But I had several drinks and was happy.

 

[Royal Flush]

Full-freight is Alan's phrase. I stole it. Daily, timeshare salespeople all over the country and world are selling timeshares to people who think it's a great idea.

We need to convince those people that our used timeshares are as good as any of those new ones (which are all used, too, according to Alan).

Why is it that only a timeshare presentation with high pressure can get someone to take a timeshare? If you have a free timeshare in a GC or 5* resort, you cannot give it away!

Maybe we are looking in the wrong places for people who will buy our timeshares.

How can we turn this around?

NOT by listing it on TUG for sure!! TUG advertises free timeshares in EBay for heaven's sake.

 

[Royal Flush]

John:
"But nthey may advise owners that there is a third party, perhaps independent management, a reseller, n individual buyer - anyone not directly associated with the resort that can act on their own. If they wish to accept deeds back then they are free to do so."
Sounds like a PCC you're endorsing?

Why the heck does TUG talk about reselling timeshare when they promote
free timeshares on EBAY? How INSANE is this?! Good resorts being given away for nothing... Time for a change!!

 

[Royal Flush]

Why the heck does TUG talk about reselling timeshare when they promote
free timeshares on EBAY? How INSANE is this?! Good resorts being given away for nothing... Time for a change!!

Why send this out in the newsletter? Why have a MARKETPLACE?! What in the Name of God is the sense in this?

 

[ronparise]

Why the heck does TUG talk about reselling timeshare when they promote
free timeshares on EBAY? How INSANE is this?! Good resorts being given away for nothing... Time for a change!!

The timeshare being sold on ebay for a dollar is not the problem....Its are being picked up by someone willing to pay the maintenance fees

The problem is the one that doesnt get sold The one where even a dollar is too much...What do you do with them....You say its time for a change....."Im all ears" what do you have in mind?

 

[Ridewithme38]

OThier converted FWs to points was costing them $2400 in MFs for 189,000 Wyndham points. Newport off season weeks.

 

[Rob&Carol Q]

On Saturday night, handed out TUG info to 2 ladies at the TIKI bar.

Now there's a tactic that I think is under-utilized :hysterical:


actually, it sounds like the start of a groaner of a joke...

 

[ampaholic]

On Saturday night, handed out TUG info to 2 ladies at the TIKI bar. ...

I'll have to remember that line next time I see some hotties at the TIKI bar... :rofl: :hysterical: