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We are a cynical bunch on TUG. Can you believe people today are buying full-freight?

rickandcindy23

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Full-freight is Alan's phrase. I stole it. Daily, timeshare salespeople all over the country and world are selling timeshares to people who think it's a great idea.

We need to convince those people that our used timeshares are as good as any of those new ones (which are all used, too, according to Alan).

Why is it that only a timeshare presentation with high pressure can get someone to take a timeshare? If you have a free timeshare in a GC or 5* resort, you cannot give it away!

Maybe we are looking in the wrong places for people who will buy our timeshares.

How can we turn this around?
 

ronparise

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Some would argue that you can give it away...just put an ad here on tug...but I dont think its that easy

The real answer to your question goes to sales and marketing..This stuff is sold, its not bought.

If you are having trouble selling your timeshare, perhaps you could offer free vacations to 1000 people, to get 100 to sign up, and then present what you are offering in a 90 minute presentation to each of the 100, in the hope that 10 will sign your contract. then wait the rescission period and hope that at least one wont rescind.

most of us just dont have what it takes to make it in sales...let alone what it takes to make it selling timeshares
 

pnappleprincess

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I concur!

I totally agree! I started a thread on a similar topic and we had a great discussion. Initially I would have just said that some people just don't know the option is out there, but then I saw several examples where there were resellers ACROSS THE STREET! With signs in the window. Some people are just not comfortable and / or think that is just wrong to by resale. The posts by @ronparise, @passepartout, @vacationhopeful, @BMWguynw etc were just jaw dropping.

What boggles my mind, is how someone will entertain the idea of paying 40K for Westgate Retail (and we all know the opinion of that system), yet so many popular systems cannot even be GIVEN away!!! I just cannot wrap my head around it.

I personally like the @a1000monkeys story of the owners who wore t-shirts saying they would sell their unit at half. LOL. I would love to know if they got any takers.
 
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pnappleprincess

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Sales....

Some would argue that you can give it away...just put an ad here on tug...but I dont think its that easy

The real answer to your question goes to sales and marketing..This stuff is sold, its not bought.

If you are having trouble selling your timeshare, perhaps you could offer free vacations to 1000 people, to get 100 to sign up, and then present what you are offering in a 90 minute presentation to each of the 100, in the hope that 10 will sign your contract. then wait the rescission period and hope that at least one wont rescind.

most of us just dont have what it takes to make it in sales...let alone what it takes to make it selling timeshares
Yep! As my hubby always says - "you have to sell the sizzle and not the steak".

pnp
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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...

The real answer to your question goes to sales and marketing..This stuff is sold, its not bought. ...
As evidenced by the extreme pressure to complete the sale NOW - before the prospect can walk away and think about it. That is a dead-on marker of any sales presentation for any item where what is being sold is the sizzle and not the steak.

When you sell the steak - when the product stands on it's own and truly fills a need - there's no need to get pushy to close the sale. The sale closes itself. There's no problem with giving people time to think it over; the more they think about it the more convinced they will become.
 

pnappleprincess

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As evidenced by the extreme pressure to complete the sale NOW - before the prospect can walk away and think about it. That is a dead-on marker of any sales presentation for any item where what is being sold is the sizzle and not the steak.

When you sell the steak - when the product stands on it's own and truly fills a need - there's no need to get pushy to close the sale. The sale closes itself. There's no problem with giving people time to think it over; the more they think about it the more convinced they will become.
my sentiments exactly!
 

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Bargain Deals

Does anyone have a handle on how many of the bargain deals on TUG are actually taken.
We see new ones shown every day but I am just curious as to how many are actually taken by members.
What percentage of those listed do you think go to new owners.
 

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I never knew about the resale market it never really dawned on me to look. My first 2part time shares I paid full price for. Now after finding this site I feel pretty dumb for paying what I did.
 

DanM

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Don't feel dumb. Sometimes even when you know enough to comparison shop you don't get the straight story, and timeshares are no different than toasters in this regard.
I try never to buy anything over $1 without checking prices and ratings on the Internet (yes, I am cheap). But the "Amazon" price or what you see on Yahoo Shopping may not be the best either. Sometimes you have to search through layers. I recently did some analysis of cable/phone/Internet packages and discovered that most of the discounts being applied were essentially against phone service. If you dropped phone service, you only saved about $5 instead of one third the bill, because the providers figured out that once you have Internet, phone service is a throwaway. It doesn't cost any extra to provide. Yet I didn't know that and I doubt most informed consumers realize it. And that's on something almost everyone buys. Timeshares are a lot more esoteric and harder to understand without the benefit of TUG.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Credit Where Credit Is Due.

Full-freight is Alan's phrase.
The phrase was already floating around out there in the linguistic atmosphere. All I did was help popularize its use on TUG-BBS.
We need to convince those people that our used timeshares are as good as any of those new ones (which are all used, too, according to Alan).
Used-used-used is how I usually put it -- for good reason.

By me, there is no such thing as a new timeshare, because by the time the new owner gets round to showing up & checking in, other people will have already been staying right there previously in that very same unit. That makes the timeshare unit used-used-used any way you shake it. Yet the full-freight timeshare sellers keep on pressuring people to pay new prices for deeds to those non-new units. Sheesh.

Why is it that only a timeshare presentation with high pressure can get someone to take a timeshare?
Razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo all the way.
If you have a free timeshare in a GC or 5* resort, you cannot give it away!
Maybe the maintenance fees on those are too high, I don't know.

We gave away 1 annual & 2 triennial timeshares last year & the year before, not Gold Crown or 5 Star.

Maybe we are looking in the wrong places for people who will buy our timeshares.
I'll say.

How can we turn this around?
What's needed is an all-new biz model -- based on Wal-Mart for newly deeded units & based on CarMax for resales.

I am not holding my breath while waiting for that biz model to emerge.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
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Elan

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As Ron said, it's primarily sales and marketing. There are nearly endless examples I could cite where products are egregiously overpriced, yet they still sell. Even away from the high-pressure environment of a timeshare presentation, people will make uninformed buying decisions and over pay because a marketing campaign has convinced them they're making a sound decision. Timeshare presentations essentially just take what we typically see in terms of sales/marketing (TV, print, radio, etc) and compress it into a 90 minute blitz.
 

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So many people just are not aware of the resale possibility. In the past couple of months I had conversations with two different friends where I mentioned my timeshare. In both cases they mentioned that they were seriously considering a purchase because of other friends or relatives they know who have one they enjoy. One had attended a couple presentations and both had been researching the resorts at a couple of the larger chains.

Neither of them had ANY idea that they could get them resale. Thankfully I was able to steer them to TUG before they signed anything.

My first timeshare was a gift and my second I aquired after (and only because of) I discovered TUG. Before happening upon this site, I was just as unaware as they were.
 

vacationhopeful

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I think it is because we all look like we just fell off the turnup truck -- we don't have our fancy suits and dresses on nor spent an hour apply makeup, stockings and open toe heels. I didn't spend my day off in the beauty salon getting my nails and toes manicured and polished or my roots touched up.

We are not a reflection of themselves (their idealized selves) in the mirror -- succussful professionals who can provide vacation advice. :hysterical: Dang, I may be on vacation and wearing my vacation clothes --- but I would never wear the bodysuits for that hour-glass figure.

Watch how the Wyndham sales staff acts - they are coached and told what to wear and to play dressup. They actually have a RULE wearing open toe shoes required the matching polish on toes as well as the fingernails - professionally applied.

So, as a turnup, I know I will have the money to vacation.
 

ronparise

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So many people just are not aware of the resale possibility. In the past couple of months I had conversations with two different friends where I mentioned my timeshare. In both cases they mentioned that they were seriously considering a purchase because of other friends or relatives they know who have one they enjoy. One had attended a couple presentations and both had been researching the resorts at a couple of the larger chains.

Neither of them had ANY idea that they could get them resale. Thankfully I was able to steer them to TUG before they signed anything.

My first timeshare was a gift and my second I aquired after (and only because of) I discovered TUG. Before happening upon this site, I was just as unaware as they were.
Knowing about the resale market doesnt always help...There is a discussion on another thread where I tell the story of a friend that knows what I am doing, buying resale, and yet she insists on buying more for herself retail. She believes that I am the one scamming the system doing something slightly scummy, when I buy for a dollar what she paid thousands for....(she also leases a new car every 4 years while Im still driving one thats 17 years old).

She keeps going to owner updates and collecting her $100 Amex card, and Ive been banned...at this rate she will be even after 400 updates
 

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Newbie Perspective

Well, from a newbie, I'll share my ideas/thoughts:

The amount of information out there is overwhelming - trying to decipher all the jargon, million different programs, RCI, II, etc...It is a lot to take in.

There seems to be such a bad connotation with timeshares and people are afraid of being ripped off buying resale.

Going to a 'reputable' dealer means they get everything explained and can hear everything 'firsthand' and that can be reassuring.

I will admit - we did just buy our first timeshare direct. I'm comfortable with our purchase as it was Disney and we were very very specific in what we wanted and why and were willing to be put on a waitlist to get what we wanted rather than buy into the resort they were pushing.

We are looking now for another timeshare, but this one will not be bought direct. I'm still trying to decipher everything and man, it's a lot. I figure we will be researching for about a year. But, trying to translate everything I'm reading and keeping it straight, sorting through conflicting opinions takes time and work. And I'm more than willing to put in the time and effort to get exactly what I want (what works best for our family), but I can see where there are people out there who won't spend the time researching beforehand.

Having sat through a horribly pushy timeshare presentation in Vegas several years back, I can see how people buckle under the pressure. It takes a lot to walk away. For me, the more you push, the more I say no...more to see you lose your cool :p I guess I just have a twisted sense of humor some times.

But, yeah, some people are lazy, some people are spontaneous, and some people buckle under pressure, and some people are just naive.
 

ronparise

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I think it is because we all look like we just fell off the turnup truck -- we don't have our fancy suits and dresses on nor spent an hour apply makeup, stockings and open toe heels. I didn't spend my day off in the beauty salon getting my nails and toes manicured and polished or my roots touched up.

We are not a reflection of themselves (their idealized selves) in the mirror -- succussful professionals who can provide vacation advice. :hysterical: Dang, I may be on vacation and wearing my vacation clothes --- but I would never wear the bodysuits for that hour-glass figure.

Watch how the Wyndham sales staff acts - they are coached and told what to wear and to play dressup. They actually have a RULE wearing open toe shoes required the matching polish on toes as well as the fingernails - professionally applied.

So, as a turnup, I know I will have the money to vacation.
Thats why I dont sell as much real estate as I want....my polish dosent match
and I sure dont have an hourglass figure
 

rickandcindy23

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I will admit - we did just buy our first timeshare direct. I'm comfortable with our purchase as it was Disney and we were very very specific in what we wanted and why and were willing to be put on a waitlist to get what we wanted rather than buy into the resort they were pushing.
One of the only systems we would buy retail is Disney. We did buy resale for our first purchase and plan a second purchase.

If buying directly from Disney had some real benefits, I would love to know what they are, so I can move forward with a possible retail purchase. So far, I see no reason yet to buy direct, but I am a Disney freak and can be persuaded. :whoopie:

I can rent my points myself and pay cash for Disney cruises. That was one of the things I liked about DVC during the sales presentation. Disney took that ability away. So I know I am blocked from that benefit.

Seth Nock (TUG member and broker extraordinaire) was my broker for the resale points, and he said his clients generally rent their points and just pay for cruises, so that was a good reason to buy for the reduced price. I hope I can rent my points as he says. I am going to try--someday. Right now, I am using the points for other things.
 

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Knowing about the resale market doesnt always help...There is a discussion on another thread where I tell the story of a friend that knows what I am doing, buying resale, and yet she insists on buying more for herself retail. She believes that I am the one scamming the system doing something slightly scummy, when I buy for a dollar what she paid thousands for....(she also leases a new car every 4 years while Im still driving one thats 17 years old).

She keeps going to owner updates and collecting her $100 Amex card, and Ive been banned...at this rate she will be even after 400 updates
I know it doesn't always help. Some people are just plain stubborn. And some are leary (sometimes with good reason) of getting taken. But a little education doesn't hurt either. I just wish every potential buyer knew the valuable information on this site beforehand.
 

rickandcindy23

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Just like the real estate market, as soon as the low priced inventory is sold, the prices should go up especially in the higher demand areas such as beaches and mountains. California is a good state to purchase from a resale broker as there are restrictions and regulations in place.
Interesting sales pitch, but TUG mantra is to never expect an increase in value, and it's illegal for you to say prices should go up, if you are a real estate broker.

I expect timeshares to stay where they are now, or for them to decrease even more.
 

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I know 2 different couples who recently bought additional weeks at full-freight to go with their existing weeks just to get the "freebies" the developer was including. Good for them. They are both well aware that they cannot sell their original weeks for what they paid for them yet they still paid full-freight for additional weeks. Both couples have more money than I do and they are both happy with their purchases. Again, good for them. :clap: :doh:

Another guy I know bought a "used" week from an owner so he feels he got a deal. I told him I could get that same week for much, much less (I had enough compassion for him to not tell him I could get it for a buck or less). He told me that if I was paying so much less than I wasn't getting what he was getting. :doh:

I'm forever thankful I found TUG. After a HOA meeting where other owners told me I'd never be able to trade my red Tahoe week for the Manhattan club I searched the web for options and found TUG. Shortly after joining I joined a group SA purchase for a week that costs just peanuts. Unfortunately I couldn't attend the next HOA meeting since we were at the Manhattan Club that week via a trade with that white SA week.
 

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We are a cynical bunch on TUG. Can you believe people today are buying full-freight?
how can you speak for the whole community?
cynical [ˈsɪnɪkəl]
adj
1. distrustful or contemptuous of virtue, esp selflessness in others; believing the worst of others, esp that all acts are selfish
2. sarcastic; mocking
3. showing contempt for accepted standards of behaviour, esp of honesty or morality the politician betrayed his promises in a cynical way
I'm not, but obviously - you are?
 

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how can you speak for the whole community?


I'm not, but obviously - you are?
Not sure what your point is with this post but I consider myself a compete cynic when it comes to the "selflessness" of timeshare salesmen who are offering a great deal on a product that is going to appreciate in value, get you any trade you like and can be rented for twice your maintenance fees.

So I guess there's two of us at least, Cindy - LOL!!

Bev
 

rickandcindy23

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cynical [ˈsɪnɪkəl]
adj
1. distrustful or contemptuous of virtue, esp selflessness in others; believing the worst of others, esp that all acts are selfish
2. sarcastic; mocking
3. showing contempt for accepted standards of behaviour, esp of honesty or morality the politician betrayed his promises in a cynical way
cyn·i·cal/ˈsinikəl/Adjective:

1.Believing that people are motivated by self-interest; distrustful of human sincerity or integrity.
2.Doubtful as to whether something will happen or is worthwhile.

This is the definition of cynical that is more true. You must have a different dictionary.

I think most TUG members, especially those of us who are bargain-hunting timeshare owners are cynical. Thanks, Bev.

Timeshare salespeople are creating more cynical people every day. That's what bottom-feeder timeshare salespeople do.
 

rickandcindy23

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Here is a new reason to be cynical of timeshare.

Just discovered in the last few days that Somerpointe Resorts is selling RCI Points to current owners on Maui. These are the Consolidated resorts. This has been done before, and apparently people fall for the sales pitch. It happened at the PAHIO resorts, and it's now happening on Maui with Consolidated.

They invite current owners (most of which already paid tens of thousands of dollars for their floating weeks) to a sales presentation and tell them the virtues of RCI Points: "II will just give you a week for a week, but RCI Points will get you several vacations for your week."

They talk up the last-minute exchanges in RCI Points (which are fewer and fewer of late). They do not tell you that RCI Points weeks don't qualify for these reduced points. So if a week at your home resort comes available for next week, you can't get it for anything less than full points.

Anyway, owners at PAHIO were first sold their weeks, then PAHIO pushed RCI Points to owners (which were NOT transferable in resale), and they made money there. Then PAHIO sold out to Wyndham, and now they are selling Wyndham points to the owners. How ridiculous is that? :rofl:

Yes, I am cynical. Robcrusoe is something else, apparently, but the VAST MAJORITY of us know the sales sleazes and weasels are liars for a living.
 
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