Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana and Marriott Ownerships

[dioxide45]

And it wouldn’t be too hard to just align the annual membership fee so that it really is just DC being another exchange option within VSN if qualified

I would agree, but how does it work exactly? Right now everyone is still a VSN member. You get DC owner benefits, but it seems you are still a VSN member. If they align the fee, a one week owner will end up paying more than they do now, even if they never elect Club Points. The minimum DC fee is $215 where the one week VSN fee is only $155.

 

[Mowogo]

I would agree, but how does it work exactly? Right now everyone is still a VSN member. You get DC owner benefits, but it seems you are still a VSN member. If they align the fee, a one week owner will end up paying more than they do now, even if they never elect Club Points. The minimum DC fee is $215 where the one week VSN fee is only $155.

Any time you greatly increase the access on this scale is an opportunity to reprice, and by updating the VSN fee you don’t have to overcome the upsell roadblock to get people to convert to DC. And yes it hurts those that never exchange, but they are going to get their money from everyone for this somehow.


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[CPNY]

I agree with Doug and think an upfront fee to enroll is more likely. The Destination Club does not have various fees for transactions, just an annual club dues based on the owner’s level of membership. I don’t see them going away from that concept.

Best regards.

Mike

Correct, the election fee would be for the vistana owners in the vistana side. If we are assuming the destination club is the program for all then of course Marriott owners wouldn’t pay to book a Sheraton or better Westin property than they own. Although Marriott owners should pay an upgrade fee when booking westins lol

 

[dioxide45]

Correct, the election fee would be for the vistana owners in the vistana side. If we are assuming the destination club is the program for all then of course Marriott owners wouldn’t pay to book a Sheraton or better Westin property than they own. Although Marriott owners should pay an upgrade fee when booking westins lol

Their upgrade fee should be with more points. We will have to wait and see what the Vistana DC point charts look like.

 

[jabberwocky]

What May happen is, come June they stop selling Flex options and all unsold flex inventory is put into the DC exchange. Going forward all sales will be sold as DC points. Current Flex owners in the VSN can still book their flex inventory 12-8 months then at 8 months all other VSN resorts. MVC members would have access to the unsold flex inventory in the DC 13-12 months out as well as access to the VSN inventory that owners elected to convert prior to the deadline they set.

I think you are right that they will start putting unsold flex into the DC Trust. But I’m failing to see how MVC members could book a week at 13 months when most Vistana resorts don’t allow bookings for the underlying deeds until 12 months prior. Those rules are part of the underlying timeshare association covenants and rules - not VSN. MVC can’t just allow a change in the booking window without having to change the underlying covenants and rules for each timeshare association.

 

[CPNY]

I think you are right that they will start putting unsold flex into the DC Trust. But I’m failing to see how MVC members could book a week at 13 months when most Vistana resorts don’t allow bookings for the underlying deeds until 12 months prior. Those rules are part of the underlying timeshare association covenants and rules - not VSN. MVC can’t just allow a change in the booking window without having to change the underlying covenants and rules for each timeshare association.

If it’s unsold inventory that Marriott controls, they can make it available in the Dc exchange for those Marriott owners who are eligible to book at 13 months. Same way they can book the Marriott inventory that’s in the exchange at that time. Or am I messing up points and weeks? I though higher level Marriott owners in the DC can book at 13 months

 

[jabberwocky]

That is true, but the question is, at least for the Vistana trusts, they don't really contain a lot of high value units. In order for Vistana units to get to the MVC Exchange, it will require a VIstana owner to actually elect their week or points for Club Points. Most Marriott Trust inventory makes it into the MVC Trust pretty quickly. So I think for a while, Vistana availability in the new scheme will be fairly limited. THey will need to entice Vistana owners to elect Club Points, thus why I think they will go the route of no fees to enroll or elect.

This is a very valid and important point. It is also something I don’t think the average MVC owners appreciates.

For example, there are currently zero Westin OF Maui units in Flex. Vistana has found it more profitable to resell these as deeded weeks rather than put them into the WFlex trust.

The upshot of this is that for an MVC owner to get access to these OF units, a current Westin OF owner will have to elect into MVC - unless Vistana starts picking up units via ROFR and putting them in the DC trust. Given the proposed DC points exchange rates being mentioned, I don’t know why I would ever do so (I certainly won’t). The values within VSN are much superior than a similar DC point booking IMO.

 

[CPNY]

This is a very valid and important point. It is also something I don’t think the average MVC owners appreciates.

For example, there are currently zero Westin OF Maui units in Flex. Vistana has found it more profitable to resell these as deeded weeks rather than put them into the WFlex trust.

The upshot of this is that for an MVC owner to get access to these OF units, a current Westin OF owner will have to elect into MVC - unless Vistana starts picking up units via ROFR and putting them in the DC trust. Given the proposed DC points exchange rates being mentioned, I don’t know why I would ever do so (I certainly won’t). The values within VSN are much superior than a similar DC point booking IMO.

I expect MVW to get aggressive with ROFR

 

[jabberwocky]

If it’s unsold inventory that Marriott controls, they can make it available in the Dc exchange for those Marriott owners who are eligible to book at 13 months. Same way they can book the Marriott inventory that’s in the exchange at that time. Or am I messing up points and weeks? I though higher level Marriott owners in the DC can book at 13 months

Higher level Marriott owners can book at 13 months; however, I believe the underlying deeds can also be booked for multiple consecutive weeks at 13 months if you own multiple deeds.

That isn’t the case with most Vistana resorts.It is pretty much always 12 months (some fixed week deeds automatically book earlier). So any booking at 13 months via MVC would be prospective and not have an actual “legal” underlying booking at the resort.

 

[jabberwocky]

I expect MVW to get aggressive with ROFR

I agree.

 

[dioxide45]

I expect MVW to get aggressive with ROFR

I agree.

The problem is that they only have ROFR at a few resorts. They could up their game in Maui, but I suspect that they will offer a lot of points to Maui weeks to convert to Club Points. Probably in line or a bit higher than Marriott offers MOC owners in the new towers. A 2BR oceanfront gets almost 7,500 Club Points. I suspect the Westin properties may get closer to 8,000. That may not ba a good value to the astute Tugger, but most others would just see that they can score several weeks in DC for that amount of points and elect Club Points.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think you are right that they will start putting unsold flex into the DC Trust. But I’m failing to see how MVC members could book a week at 13 months when most Vistana resorts don’t allow bookings for the underlying deeds until 12 months prior. Those rules are part of the underlying timeshare association covenants and rules - not VSN. MVC can’t just allow a change in the booking window without having to change the underlying covenants and rules for each timeshare association.

Like every other floating timeshare system there's a "subject to availability" restriction on whatever intervals can be booked through the DC Trust and the DC Exchange Company, and we've not seen any evidence that MVW has tried to override the existing rules of Weeks inventory after it's made available via the Trust or Exchange Company. If the underlying rules for Vistana intervals are strictly worded such that they can't be released prior to a 12-mos window then I'd expect they won't be made available prior to that window (regardless of any DC members' access to earlier booking windows.)

If that's the case then of course many DC members might not understand the technical difference, and Sales definitely won't get into the weeds of it, but it's certain that TUG members will notice it in practice.

 

[SandyPGravel]

Is there a MVC for dummies so I can understand what options I may have?

I realize no one knows all the details yet, but I'm worried I'll do something stupid with what I own.

I only own at Westin St John, one Plat + fixed week fixed unit, and one Plat float week. I'm getting the vibe that my P+ fixed is valuable.

Is electing DC like exchanging in VSN or is it a permanent thing that I would be relinquishing my unit forever?

I have been happy for a while bc I understood the ins & outs of VSE, now I'm back to kindergarten.

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[KACTravels]

Is there a MVC for dummies so I can understand what options I may have?

I‘ve been reading the stickies above.

Marriott Abound (formerly Destination Club) Points-System FAQ & Guide

** During 2022 Marriott Vacations Worldwide announced in Investor Meetings that Vistana timeshares would be integrated into the Marriott points system, and, that the Destination Club would be renamed Abound. After all details have been officially announced, this FAQ will be reviewed/edited to...

tugbbs.com

 

[dougp26364]

Is there a MVC for dummies so I can understand what options I may have?

I realize no one knows all the details yet, but I'm worried I'll do something stupid with what I own.

I only own at Westin St John, one Plat + fixed week fixed unit, and one Plat float week. I'm getting the vibe that my P+ fixed is valuable.

Is electing DC like exchanging in VSN or is it a permanent thing that I would be relinquishing my unit forever?

I have been happy for a while bc I understood the ins & outs of VSE, now I'm back to kindergarten.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Welcome to timeshare. A place and ownership where timeshare developers will try to always keep you in “kindergarten” as a way to get you into owner updates and sell you more.

We’ve owned timeshare for nearly 25 years. We’ve gone from fixed week/fixed unit to floating weeks to deed weeks with points values to trust ownership with no assigned resort, week or season. TUG is your best bet for good intel on what’s happening, the latest rumors and best ways to maximize your ownership. There’s a great thread on the Vistana section by DeniseM with some answers from an inside source the will provide a little clarity. Until they put the official program and rules in writing, we’re all just guessing. Even thought the sales staff now has some semi-firm explanation of what’s about to happen, I still don’t trust what they say as the program hasn’t been officially released. The expect release date in June of this year.

Just do like I do and follow the threads on TUG. Right now it’s the best anyone can do

 

[dioxide45]

Is there a MVC for dummies so I can understand what options I may have?

I realize no one knows all the details yet, but I'm worried I'll do something stupid with what I own.

I only own at Westin St John, one Plat + fixed week fixed unit, and one Plat float week. I'm getting the vibe that my P+ fixed is valuable.

Is electing DC like exchanging in VSN or is it a permanent thing that I would be relinquishing my unit forever?

I have been happy for a while bc I understood the ins & outs of VSE, now I'm back to kindergarten.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Based on answers provided by what appears to be someone in sales in a thread in the Vistana forum, this is what we know. These answers seem to be from a sales contact Denise has that was going through training videos on the new program.

• Your WSJ week will = a fixed number of Club Points
• You can elect to receive that number of Club Points annually or you can use VSN or you could use your home resort.
• You elect to receive Club Points each year, it is not permanent and you are not relinquishing forever.

 

[emeryjre]

Regarding inventory available to book at under the new program. Wasn't it said by the "source" that eligible inventory would come from Westin/Sheraton owners electing to convert their VOI for DC points? There was no mention of any other inventory being available to book other than converted VOI's

 

[dioxide45]

Regarding inventory available to book at under the new program. Wasn't it said by the "source" that eligible inventory would come from Westin/Sheraton owners electing to convert their VOI for DC points? There was no mention of any other inventory being available to book other than converted VOI's

That is my understanding and that is how it works on the Marriott weeks side. The only way inventory gets in from Marriott weeks is when owners convert their week to Club Points. There can be other ways that MVC can manipulate the inventory inside the exchange company. Of course for Marriott, the DC trust is a big owner of inventory and also deposits most of its inventory to the MVC Exchange Company. I don't think this will or can happen on the Vistana side of things since the VSN layer also exists along with the Flex Trusts and they won't want Flex owners to lose the ability to trade their Home Options in VSN.

 

[CPNY]

That is my understanding and that is how it works on the Marriott weeks side. The only way inventory gets in from Marriott weeks is when owners convert their week to Club Points. There can be other ways that MVC can manipulate the inventory inside the exchange company. Of course for Marriott, the DC trust is a big owner of inventory and also deposits most of its inventory to the MVC Exchange Company. I don't think this will or can happen on the Vistana side of things since the VSN layer also exists along with the Flex Trusts and they won't want Flex owners to lose the ability to trade their Home Options in VSN.

If Marriott takes back a vistana unit as part of a sale, does that unit stay in the Trust it was originally in or does it go somewhere else until Marriott decides where to put it?

I can see all of these owner updates going forward consisting of “give us your vistana week and upgrade to DC points where you’ll have direct access to all resorts”. That will be more vistana inventory for Marriott to fund the DC exchange. Knowing how Marriott operates, we know there will be many lies and manipulation upon its owners to buy more. I expect Marriott to increase its revenue by large margins in the coming years.

 

[divenski]

That is my understanding and that is how it works on the Marriott weeks side. The only way inventory gets in from Marriott weeks is when owners convert their week to Club Points. There can be other ways that MVC can manipulate the inventory inside the exchange company. Of course for Marriott, the DC trust is a big owner of inventory and also deposits most of its inventory to the MVC Exchange Company. I don't think this will or can happen on the Vistana side of things since the VSN layer also exists along with the Flex Trusts and they won't want Flex owners to lose the ability to trade their Home Options in VSN.

Another likely way is through Interval deposits of Marriott weeks. Remember that MAR owns II too... Or is that what you meant by exchange company?

 

[dioxide45]

If Marriott takes back a vistana unit as part of a sale, does that unit stay in the Trust it was originally in or does it go somewhere else until Marriott decides where to put it?

I can see all of these owner updates going forward consisting of “give us your vistana week and upgrade to DC points where you’ll have direct access to all resorts”. That will be more vistana inventory for Marriott to fund the DC exchange. Knowing how Marriott operates, we know there will be many lies and manipulation upon its owners to buy more. I expect Marriott to increase its revenue by large margins in the coming years.

In the time between a deed back and conveyance to a trust, Marriott owns that inventory. It generally won't be available for owner reservations as they rent it on Marriott.com. During this period of time, they will be paying the annual MFs for the week. At some point in time they will actually want to sell the points associated with the underlying inventory and they will convey it to the trust. Based on the rep saying that they will begin selling DC points at some point, I would expect them to stop putting Vistana inventory in the Flex trusts and start adding it to the DC Trust.

I don't see them doing any kind of trade ins. That doesn't seem to be Marriott's MO. They may up the deed back program. When they first rolled out DC, they were actually doing buybacks. They may go that route to try to get more inventory into DC Trust that they can control who it goes to instead of relying on Vistana weeks and Flex owners to elect Club Points.

 

[dioxide45]

Another likely way is through Interval deposits of Marriott weeks. Remember that MAR owns II too... Or is that what you meant by exchange company?

MVC Exchange Company is different from Interval. We do have some information that would lead us to think Marriott can pull inventory from II to make available for points reservations. We don't really know how that works, but it was mentioned early on in the DC rollout in 2010. We suspect the MVC Exchange Company and/or DC Trust is also a member of II and can exchange weeks between themselves. How that works is anyone's guess since MVC isn't very transparent about how they handle the inventory on the back end.

 

[dougp26364]

Regarding inventory available to book at under the new program. Wasn't it said by the "source" that eligible inventory would come from Westin/Sheraton owners electing to convert their VOI for DC points? There was no mention of any other inventory being available to book other than converted VOI's

That is my understanding and that is how it works on the Marriott weeks side. The only way inventory gets in from Marriott weeks is when owners convert their week to Club Points. There can be other ways that MVC can manipulate the inventory inside the exchange company. Of course for Marriott, the DC trust is a big owner of inventory and also deposits most of its inventory to the MVC Exchange Company. I don't think this will or can happen on the Vistana side of things since the VSN layer also exists along with the Flex Trusts and they won't want Flex owners to lose the ability to trade their Home Options in VSN.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading the source as saying any unsold inventory once the deal is done will become part of the trust. At that time they will begin to sell DC points only. That indicates to me that whatever inventory is currently held by ILG will be available to book thru DC points.

I remember when they started the Destination Trust program up with MVW the speculation was that only resorts with heavy unsold inventory like Crystal Shores, the Sunset Tour at Oceana Palms and Grand Château would be widely available. However I recall a decent selection of inventory from which to choose. To this day some of the older resorts on HHI, which received very few points in exchange for their weeks, are difficult to book using points. There just isn’t any value for the owners of those weeks in the DC so their owners didn’t join and don’t deposit. Most of those older HHI resorts were sold out LONG before the trust. I suspect the same may be true with ILG. Low value weeks just won’t get deposited as often.

It’s going to take some time for availability to stabilize. If MVW doesn’t charge a joiner or opt in fee like they did with their own owners, there may be a pretty decent flood of ILG inventory to the pool early on.

Reading FB and TUG shows me the differences between informed owners (TUG) and the uninformed (FB Groups).When we’re at a resort I’m always amazed at the ignorance of the majority of owners as to what they own, how they can use it and the silly mistakes they make that leads to their dissatisfaction. One woman was ticked off because she was told she could exchange into Hawaii. The representative was having an impossible time explaining that requesting that particular exchange at less than 90 days was nearly impossible. She couldn’t understand the concept of timeSHARE and first come first reserved. I’ve also seen owners ticked off about their room assignments who were exchangers. They couldn’t understand owners at that resort staying on their owned time had higher priority than they did with their two weeks of ownership at some other resort.

Since TUG is a unique and rather small percentage of timeshare owners, I suspect sales and marketing will have a field day signing up the masses and inventory will be more abundant than if everyone read TUG and better understood how to maximize their ownership and minimize their costs.

 

[CPNY]

Since TUG is a unique and rather small percentage of timeshare owners, I suspect sales and marketing will have a field day signing up the masses and inventory will be more abundant than if everyone read TUG and better understood how to maximize their ownership and minimize their costs.

Yeah, sales is going to make a killing on this. So many will be either buying more or trading in what they have to “upgrade”.

 

[dougp26364]

Yeah, sales is going to make a killing on this. So many will be either buying more or trading in what they have to “upgrade”.

when we do an owner update or, as Hilton seems to be calling it now, a “portfolio review”, I spend about as much time listening in on the other tables as I do our own salesman. I am simply amazed at the ignorance of what they actually own from current owners doing their updates, how easily manipulated they can be and how readily they’ll jump head long into a very bad deal.

I was listening to a young couple in Breckenridge last year. The salesman was trying to sell them a studio unit for $15,000 and the wife was ready to jump headlong into the contract. She was smart enough to call her dad, but I never heard the outcome to see if her dad was smart enough to tell her to cool her jets and do some research first.