Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana and Marriott Ownerships

[Mowogo]

they later qualified that to say they would NOT have to buy in, they’d be automatically included. It sounds like they’ll have to convert their weeks or star options to play in the DC pool.

it’s exciting that maybe something is actually happening, but o think I’ll wait until someone has something in writing instead of, “We attended a presentation” information

If there is no extra fee to access the DC pool then I can see a lot of owners converting instead of using VSN. 13 month booking window is huge and depending on desires could justify the skim in conversion rates depending on holdings. I see the standard owners update to even focus on the benefits of converting to DC every year even if they don’t complete the sale just to build the new program and give it more inventory. And I’d say that to access future resorts you will likely have to convert.

 

[TSKing]

Anyone else get this email:
As you may already know, Marriott is in the final stages of assimilating your Starwood owner portfolio into the MVC program. As this process moves forward, there will be decisions and choices that all Starwood owners will be making in the coming months. However, our corporate team is running a special campaign for specific Starwood owners because of where and/or how they are deeded.

Given the limited time along with the overwhelming number of Starwood owners we are trying to accommodate, we are conducting these campaigns on a virtual basis only. This meeting is NOT mandatory. However, there are changes that you may want take advantage of which will put you in a much better position once your portfolio (shown at the bottom of this email) is consolidated into the MVC program. The changes and options being referred to in this email will NOT be available after Final Consolidation. Please let us know what dates and times work best for you prior to March 31st and we'll try to accommodate you as best we can.

I responded and asked for more detail. From his reply it seems to be an attempt at an "Owner's Update". Also didn't include a date for "Final Consolidation" and wouldn't tell me what the changes I might want to take advantage of unless I agreed to his virtual meeting.

Yes, I received that sometime in February and made a virtual appointment. They are again "selling" by informing you what is to come and how you can take advantage of the point values before they are changed. I own Sheraton, Westin and also MVC Points. But he did inform to me the exchange value they will use for Sheraton and Vistana Options if transferred to Marriott VC points. Apparently Westin is worth more than Sheraton. So if you own Sheraton Flex for example, I would be able to turn that in to exchange for a Westin. Of course they would allow only one Sheraton Flex week, toward a purchase of a Westin property. So in this particular deal I would have to come up with $30K. But it would be worth more MVC points because Westin is worth more. Anyway, I didn't go for it and the deal was off once I ended the call. I'm sorry I have forgotten the particulars. And also they won't offer it to me again once I ended the call. So if you don't own MVC, you may want to find out what the deal is.

 

[regatta333]

Sales rep we met with on a recent trip to Ko'Olina just contacted me. He confirmed the previously mentioned conversion for Westin Kierland at 4,050 DC points for a 2BD platinum season week. He said that during January the Marriott values for Arizona were lower, so that it was averaged. Still seems that this was undervalued in comparison to the Marriott property.

We were prepared to pay the $19K it would have cost to buy 1,500 DC points for the flexibility of converting our 2 platinum Kierland weeks, but at this conversion rate, I honestly cannot see the value of ever electing to convert these weeks. And having 1,500 standalone DC points is certainly not worth $19K.

 

[dioxide45]

Sales rep we met with on a recent trip to Ko'Olina just contacted me. He confirmed the previously mentioned conversion for Westin Kierland at 4,050 DC points for a 2BD platinum season week. He said that during January the Marriott values for Arizona were lower, so that it was averaged. Still seems that this was undervalued in comparison to the Marriott property.

We were prepared to pay the $19K it would have cost to buy 1,500 DC points for the flexibility of converting our 2 platinum Kierland weeks, but at this conversion rate, I honestly cannot see the value of ever electing to convert these weeks. And having 1,500 standalone DC points is certainly not worth $19K.

I initially thought it was undervalued compared to Canyon villas but it doesn't look to be the case. Platinum Canyon Villas owners get 2,950 DC points when they elect and Platinum Plus receive 3,900.

Who says you have to buy 1,500 DC points to be able to convert your 2 Plat+ WKV weeks? Not sure that will actually be the case.

 

[regatta333]

Who says you have to buy 1,500 DC points to be able to convert your 2 Plat+ WKV weeks? Not sure that will actually be the case.

You had to buy a minimum of 1,000 DC points to be able to buy into this hybrid product which would enable you to elect (on an annual basis) to convert your Vistana weeks to DC points.. At least, that's what we were told.

 

[CPNY]

You had to buy a minimum of 1,000 DC points to be able to buy into this hybrid product which would enable you to elect (on an annual basis) to convert your Vistana weeks to DC points.. At least, that's what we were told.

I am doubtful that one would have to buy points to be eligible to elect to convert.

My thought is as long as the Vistana VOI is enrolled fully in the VSN (eligible to convert to bonvoy points) then they would be able to elect to play in the Destination Club Exchange. What May happen is, come June they stop selling Flex options and all unsold flex inventory is put into the DC exchange. Going forward all sales will be sold as DC points. Current Flex owners in the VSN can still book their flex inventory 12-8 months then at 8 months all other VSN resorts. MVC members would have access to the unsold flex inventory in the DC 13-12 months out as well as access to the VSN inventory that owners elected to convert prior to the deadline they set. If you’re a VSN owner and you don’t elect to exchange in the DC, then you continue to use the ownership as it is being used today. Others who know the legality of the trusts can weigh in on whether this is even possible.

 

[kozykritter]

Sales rep we met with on a recent trip to Ko'Olina just contacted me. He confirmed the previously mentioned conversion for Westin Kierland at 4,050 DC points for a 2BD platinum season week. He said that during January the Marriott values for Arizona were lower, so that it was averaged. Still seems that this was undervalued in comparison to the Marriott property.

We were prepared to pay the $19K it would have cost to buy 1,500 DC points for the flexibility of converting our 2 platinum Kierland weeks, but at this conversion rate, I honestly cannot see the value of ever electing to convert these weeks. And having 1,500 standalone DC points is certainly not worth $19K.

Is this an unretro'd resale week or a developer purchased/requalified week?

 

[regatta333]

Is this an unretro'd resale week or a developer purchased/requalified week?

They are two resale weeks.

 

[bogey21]

Things have gotten so complicated from when I bought my first Marriott TS, a pre-construction Sabal Palms Week. Thing were so simple then and Marriott Customer Service was a joy to deal with...

George

 

[dioxide45]

I am doubtful that one would have to buy points to be eligible to elect to convert.

My thought is as long as the Vistana VOI is enrolled fully in the VSN (eligible to convert to bonvoy points) then they would be able to elect to play in the Destination Club Exchange. What May happen is, come June they stop selling Flex options and all unsold flex inventory is put into the DC exchange. Going forward all sales will be sold as DC points. Current Flex owners in the VSN can still book their flex inventory 12-8 months then at 8 months all other VSN resorts. MVC members would have access to the unsold flex inventory in the DC 13-12 months out as well as access to the VSN inventory that owners elected to convert prior to the deadline they set. If you’re a VSN owner and you don’t elect to exchange in the DC, then you continue to use the ownership as it is being used today. Others who know the legality of the trusts can weigh in on whether this is even possible.

I noticed in one of the images posted to the Facebook group that there is a footnote (1) beside "Vistana SIgnature Network" in
Members of the Vistana Signature Network1 will first need to elect to receive Club Points to travel ito a Marriott Vacation Club Resort or property in the small print. I couldn't find additional small print to indicate what that (1) actually is referencing. Perhaps resale mandatory restrictions on VSN membership?
It is small and blurry, but wonder what that refers to?

 

[CPNY]

I noticed in one of the images posted to the Facebook group that there is a footnote (1) beside "Vistana SIgnature Network" in
Members of the Vistana Signature Network1 will first need to elect to receive Club Points to travel ito a Marriott Vacation Club Resort or property in the small print. I couldn't find additional small print to indicate what that (1) actually is referencing. Perhaps resale mandatory restrictions on VSN membership?
It is small and blurry, but wonder what that refers to?
View attachment 50080

I THINK that’s exactly what that means. I don’t think mandatory resales will be eligible to be elected to convert. The same way we aren’t eligible to convert to bonvoy points. I’d expect the unit needs to be retro back into the VSN. This will enable them to sell more points to one of their biggest source of revenue…. Owners who have already spent a ton of money in the past. As we know Many timeshare owners sign on the dotted line to buy more without any clue why. But I can’t see retro’d or developer purchased VOI owners having to buy anything additional. I can’t see them needing to buy a minimum amount of DC points just to elect to convert their existing Vistana VOI.


I’m just hoping there is some legal issue that keeps Harborside in the VSN only.

 

[michael49]

So far it appears that all the discussion is "What's in it for Vistana/Sheraton owners".
What about Marriott owners (weeks and/or points)? Or have I missed something?

 

[dioxide45]

So far it appears that all the discussion is "What's in it for Vistana/Sheraton owners".
What about Marriott owners (weeks and/or points)? Or have I missed something?

I think the biggest change will be for Vistana owners. That said, it will help MVC owners too as they will have the opportunity to exchange into Westin and Sheraton resort with DC points. Inventory will depend on how many Vistana owners actually elect Club Points with their week or Flex ownership.

 

[VacationForever]

So far it appears that all the discussion is "What's in it for Vistana/Sheraton owners".
What about Marriott owners (weeks and/or points)? Or have I missed something?

I believe that if you own a resale and unenrolled MVC week, nothing changes. If you have enrolled weeks (and you elect points for the year) and DC points, then you can trade into Vistana resorts via internal exchange system.

 

[CPNY]

So far it appears that all the discussion is "What's in it for Vistana/Sheraton owners".
What about Marriott owners (weeks and/or points)? Or have I missed something?

That makes sense. Remember this was an acquisition so there is a lot of uncertainty for vistana owners. Vistana owners generally like what they have. We have seen changes since the take over and many are not favorable. What would change for Marriott owners?

 

[dsmrp]

I THINK that’s exactly what that means. I don’t think mandatory resales will be eligible to be elected to convert. The same way we aren’t eligible to convert to bonvoy points. I’d expect the unit needs to be retro back into the VSN. This will enable them to sell more points to one of their biggest source of revenue…. Owners who have already spent a ton of money in the past. As we know Many timeshare owners sign on the dotted line to buy more without any clue why. But I can’t see retro’d or developer purchased VOI owners having to buy anything additional. I can’t see them needing to buy a minimum amount of DC points just to elect to convert their existing Vistana VOI.


I’m just hoping there is some legal issue that keeps Harborside in the VSN only.

+1, I agree come June, Marriott will say mandatory resale owners will need to buy DC points in order for their vistana star options to convert to DC points. In this 'soft' period until then, maybe
still selling Flex as an alternate conversion method.

This is consistent with what Marriott is still selling for the Hyatt Portfolio program.
Resale (HRC) owners (who are mostly points based anyway) would need to purchase 660 portfolio points, at nearly $14K, in order to elect annually to have their resale points participate/exchange as portfolio like points. No conversion ratio needed, as it is 1:1 HRC to HPP point.

 

[dougp26364]

I think the biggest change will be for Vistana owners. That said, it will help MVC owners too as they will have the opportunity to exchange into Westin and Sheraton resort with DC points. Inventory will depend on how many Vistana owners actually elect Club Points with their week or Flex ownership.

If MVW makes it either free to current owners (hard to believe) or very inexpensive, say $295 to convert developer purchase weeks, they’ll probably enroll a lot of ILG owners. There’s a lot more variety with MVW and having the option could be a huge benefit down the road. I don’t see the ILG resort options ever growing beyond what they are now.

If MVW requires a 1,000 or 1,500 new point purchase to join, it will take longer, it I still think they’ll get a pretty high number of owners to eventually join, but it will take 5-10 years instead of 1-2.

So, which way would sales want it to go? Force a purchase of a small number of points now vs hope for larger sales down the road after ILG owners see that their options to book internally aren’t growing? If I were a betting man, I think they’ll require a small point package purchase

 

[CPNY]

If MVW makes it either free to current owners (hard to believe) or very inexpensive, say $295 to convert developer purchase weeks, they’ll probably enroll a lot of ILG owners. There’s a lot more variety with MVW and having the option could be a huge benefit down the road. I don’t see the ILG resort options ever growing beyond what they are now.

If MVW requires a 1,000 or 1,500 new point purchase to join, it will take longer, it I still think they’ll get a pretty high number of owners to eventually join, but it will take 5-10 years instead of 1-2.

So, which way would sales want it to go? Force a purchase of a small number of points now vs hope for larger sales down the road after ILG owners see that their options to book internally aren’t growing? If I were a betting man, I think they’ll require a small point package purchase

I expect a an election fee similar to banking or exchange fees, but not a pure buy in or enrollment fee like they did back in 2010. They want to dangle the opportunity for people to cross book. They are expecting a ton of new customers to sell to. The “you need more” sales pitch at every owners update will generate a lot more revenue.

 

[mjm1]

If MVW makes it either free to current owners (hard to believe) or very inexpensive, say $295 to convert developer purchase weeks, they’ll probably enroll a lot of ILG owners. There’s a lot more variety with MVW and having the option could be a huge benefit down the road. I don’t see the ILG resort options ever growing beyond what they are now.

If MVW requires a 1,000 or 1,500 new point purchase to join, it will take longer, it I still think they’ll get a pretty high number of owners to eventually join, but it will take 5-10 years instead of 1-2.

So, which way would sales want it to go? Force a purchase of a small number of points now vs hope for larger sales down the road after ILG owners see that their options to book internally aren’t growing? If I were a betting man, I think they’ll require a small point package purchase

I expect a an election fee similar to banking or exchange fees, but not a pure buy in or enrollment fee like they did back in 2010. They want to dangle the opportunity for people to cross book. They are expecting a ton of new customers to sell to. The “you need more” sales pitch at every owners update will generate a lot more revenue.

I agree with Doug and think an upfront fee to enroll is more likely. The Destination Club does not have various fees for transactions, just an annual club dues based on the owner’s level of membership. I don’t see them going away from that concept.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[dioxide45]

If MVW makes it either free to current owners (hard to believe) or very inexpensive, say $295 to convert developer purchase weeks, they’ll probably enroll a lot of ILG owners. There’s a lot more variety with MVW and having the option could be a huge benefit down the road. I don’t see the ILG resort options ever growing beyond what they are now.

If MVW requires a 1,000 or 1,500 new point purchase to join, it will take longer, it I still think they’ll get a pretty high number of owners to eventually join, but it will take 5-10 years instead of 1-2.

So, which way would sales want it to go? Force a purchase of a small number of points now vs hope for larger sales down the road after ILG owners see that their options to book internally aren’t growing? If I were a betting man, I think they’ll require a small point package purchase

From some reports out of the sales office, there won't be a buy in fee. Shocking, but I wouldn't expect sales to say there is no buy in fee if there really was one. So it seems enrollment for qualified Vistana weeks won't require additional purchase, but there may still be an enrollment fee. What will it cost annually to elect points? That may be free or have a fee. Right now, the VSN fee comes at a lower cost than the annual DC fee. Perhaps in order to elect you pay a fee that makes up the difference?

Sales will of course try the old sales trick of "you need trust points to access all the great inventory" or "you need a hybrid account". Or they will sell, "book the Oceanfront view by just adding a thousand Club/Flex points and combine with what you own to book OF". You know, all that same garbage.

 

[VacationForever]

I just cannot see Vistana qualified weeks and Flex points requiring any sort of fees to "convert" to MVC DC points. The question is how much point purchase is required to "qualify" Vistana resale weeks and Flex points.

 

[dioxide45]

I just cannot see Vistana qualified weeks and Flex points requiring any sort of fees to "convert" to MVC DC points. The question is how much point purchase is required to "qualify" Vistana resale weeks and Flex points.

Another question is, will Vistana continue to sell their product while Marriott sells DC Trust points? If Vistana continues to sell Flex, then I suspect it will be the $10K to requalify one Vistana ownership and $5K for each additional. This is how they are currently requalifying Vistana unqualified weeks.

 

[Sicnarf]

Correct, you won't be able to book high demand units that are in the Trust and not yet released to the DC Exchange unless you own Trust points.

 

[dioxide45]

Correct, you won't be able to book high demand units that are in the Trust and not yet released to the DC Exchange unless you own Trust points.

That is true, but the question is, at least for the Vistana trusts, they don't really contain a lot of high value units. In order for Vistana units to get to the MVC Exchange, it will require a VIstana owner to actually elect their week or points for Club Points. Most Marriott Trust inventory makes it into the MVC Trust pretty quickly. So I think for a while, Vistana availability in the new scheme will be fairly limited. THey will need to entice Vistana owners to elect Club Points, thus why I think they will go the route of no fees to enroll or elect.

 

[Mowogo]

That is true, but the question is, at least for the Vistana trusts, they don't really contain a lot of high value units. In order for Vistana units to get to the MVC Exchange, it will require a VIstana owner to actually elect their week or points for Club Points. Most Marriott Trust inventory makes it into the MVC Trust pretty quickly. So I think for a while, Vistana availability in the new scheme will be fairly limited. THey will need to entice Vistana owners to elect Club Points, thus why I think they will go the route of no fees to enroll or elect.

And it wouldn’t be too hard to just align the annual membership fee so that it really is just DC being another exchange option within VSN if qualified