Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana and Marriott Ownerships

[daviator]

[Timeshare Traveler Episode 47... The Marriott Vacation Club / Vistana Merger is happening - MERGED]

I am excited about the Merger of Marriott Vacation Club finally happening. It has been a long four + years since the announcement. The sales team is now showing "informal" updates to what the future merged program will look like. Of course, there is a "last chance" to buy the benefits to Vistana points.

In this video, I will discuss the merger as described to me... I will touch on it from a Vistana owner perspective. I will also discuss my views of the merger from the Marriott Vacation Club perspective. All in all, I am happy. I get to be Bonvoy Platinum for life as a result of owning some Marriott Vacation club points and Vistana Points.

Timeshare Traveler Episode 47... The Marriott Vacation Club / Vistana Merger is happening

Map of all my timeshare reviews

I wish people would stop calling it a merger, because it definitely is not a merger. It seems to essentially be an overlay of the DP program over Vistana's network (or part of it, anyway) which qualified Vistana owners can opt into. It remains to be seen how much Vistana inventory will be available on the DP side; many Vistana folks are likely to stick with their current network and their weeks may never enter the DP pool.

I think the new overlay creates some great opportunities on both sides for those who want to travel outside of their native network, but it’s far from a merger of the programs. The Vistana network is embedded in the deeds and isn’t going anywhere.

Moderator Note: [Quote added after posts were merged into this thread.] <--SueDonJ

 

[DanCali]

Superior is subjective. How can It be superior to me when the 2-3 resorts I love are in the Vistana Network and my Star Options can get me there for 3-4 weeks. I’d have to convert all of my ownerships to get enough DC points for one week at a comparable resort, which wouldn’t be my first choice.

Dont get me wrong, DC is great, but superior is subjective. Vistana will be superior to me until 2024 when HRA can convert. Again, it would probably take all of my vistana ownerships to get a week at HRA via the DC Exchange when my SO will get me 4 weeks in a one bedroom premium, 5 weeks in a one bedroom deluxe (not a Marriott studio).

I don't know that one is superior over the other. Those like me, who already own in both systems, see advantages and disadvantages in both, and that's probably why they own in both...

Over the ~15 years since we bought our first week, the common denominator has been (i) buy in places with lower MFs, (ii) buy in places/seasons that have high rental values relative to MFs, (iii) and buy from the developer only if you have a very-very-very good reason to do so. We like where we own and purchases we made over time were buying more weeks in the same locations.

While there haven't been many changes in Vistana in the past 15 years, Marriott certainly rocked things with the DC system and now with the Vistana integration. We've always been trying to maximize the value of our ownership while adhering to the above principles. I expect we will continue to do so in the future.

As an example of how what I mean -- at some point we found ourselves with 3 enrolled MVC weeks totaling about 12,000 DPs with blended MFs of about $0.40/point. But we always used those weeks as "weeks" and rented DC points when needed. I always thought there was merit to the argument of having both points and weeks, but never saw value in buying DC points given the high MFs and the ability to instead rent them when needed at a cost similar to MFs. So instead of buying 12,000 points which would have cost at least $60K (on the resale market) and with MFs of $0.65/point, I decided to replicate our weeks portfolio and buy 3 more identical unenrolled resale weeks at a total cost or around $35K. Now we have 3 pure "weeks" in a location we originally bought pre-DC and still like, and can use our 3 other enrolled weeks as points, or weeks. So we now have ~12,000 DC "points" (via enrolled weeks) with lower upfront cost, lower maintenance fees and more flexibility with usage...!

 

[VacationForever]

We own at both Vistana and MVC and won't say if one is better than another. The interesting thing for us is while we bought our MVC timeshare post June 2010 and we are at Presidential level, we rarely use DC points, other than to add on a few days to an II trade. The best use of DC points we have used todate was when we travelled to Hilton Head and booked exactly when we wanted to be there. We use II mainly to trade into other MVC weeks (lockoff and trade for 2BR) have rented out DC points when we could not use them. DC certainly offers greater flexibility and availability. With Vistana, we use SOs to book Fall stays and get greater bang for the buck.

 

[CPNY]

I guess you have not read all the reports of stays being cheaper. I am sure overall they are not, but, it's not like anywhere near disaster levels here. I still find many places to go cheaply and get immense value out of the points the way I use them. Many here including me own DC points, very happy with them. You can scratch your head all you want. If it's not for you it's not but i don't show up in the Vistana forums to bash Vistana either. I could.

I know there is change going on, and I know you love your brand. That's cool. But many of us love the Marriott brand too. Travel as you see fit, I'm happy if you enjoy what you are doing. But that doesn't make what anyone else does wrong.

For me, hate Airbnb and VRBO, not an option. Renting not an option on Redweek, it's not for me for many reasons. For some it is and if you can get what you want, that's great!

I completely understand the advantages of ownership and how TS stays work out to be cheaper, I own 5 of them after all and I get much better value from TS usage than booking other sites. Please don’t get so defensive over Marriott. I wasn’t bashing Marriott and if you go back you’ll see how I said the DC is great as well as many of the Marriott resorts being amazing. I understand you have brand loyalty as most of us who bought Vistana have. But I was pointing out that spending tens of thousands of dollars on timeshares is a head scratcher when you can buy resale for half the price. That point is a fact. There obviously reasons why someone may buy more to enroll a resale week, but buying direct from the developer isn’t worth it generally.

Also, Marriott BOUGHT (as we are always reminded) vistana so we are all Marriott now eh, so I guess it’s ok to be in a Marriott forum? I don’t have to love everything Marriott nor did I love everything vistana. But the point that was being made is, if things change for the negative and some of us are “forced” to spend a ton of money to participate, we will look for alternate travel options, as there are plenty. One such option I mentioned was renting weeks on redweek for many times less than maintenance fees. I wasn’t making the case that airbnb,vrbo, or renting are better than ownership, because I think just the opposite. It was mentioned that there are alternatives to spending tens of thousands of dollars all over again.

 

[SueDonJ]

Moderator Note: Yep, this is a monster thread. But until official notice is provided to all Vistana owners/members (and hopefully all MVW owners/members simultaneously,) every report from every source - sales presentations included - will be merged into this thread. If we learned anything from the initial rollout of the Destination Club all those years ago, it's that even the sales reps who thought they understood the program, didn't. Please, until you've gotten official notice and written documentation that proves what any Vistana/Marriott employees are telling you, don't open new threads with what is still basically speculation.

 

[rcv82]

None of my Vistana lockoffs have two contract numbers.

I bought 3 WKORV OFD weeks (resale) together and they are all under 1 contract number. So I don’t think contract number will be the basis for conversion. On my dashboard it also lists the three different underlying weeks, and under each of those weeks it lists the 1 bedroom and the studio and associated StarOptions and the remaining balance by year. Maybe they will make you trade the whole week including both portions of the lock off (I sure hope not), but as you have said, that is inconsistent with how everything thing else in Vistana works.


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[Steve Fatula]

But Yes, spending tens of thousands of dollars on timeshares is a head scratcher when you can buy resale for half the price. That point is a fact.

Also, Marriott BOUGHT (as we are always reminded) vistana so we are all Marriott now eh, so I guess it’s ok to be in a Marriott forum? I don’t have to love everything Marriott nor did I love everything vistana. But the point that was being made is, if things change for the negative and some of us are “forced” to spend a ton of money to participate, we will look for alternate travel options, as there are plenty. One such option I mentioned was renting weeks on redweek for many times less than maintenance fees. I wasn’t making the case that airbnb,vrbo, or renting being better than ownership, because I think just the opposite. It was mentioned that there are alternatives to spending tens of thousands of dollars all over again.

Ok, so, no, it is not a fact that spending money for a direct timeshare is a head scratcher when you can buy resale for half the price (Marriott). That would be true if the products were identical, they are not. What you get direct vs resale is different. Of course, it's a moot point for the most part now as you can't buy direct for the most part in the US. But I did buy an enrolled week in Spain and there are benefits to that. Apples and Oranges. Though some do still buy direct in order to change their resales into enrolled weeks.

In order for Marriott to buy Vistana, Vistana had to sell right? So, why not direct that disappointment to Vistana who you were loyal to? Did Marriott force them to sell? (Actually I don't know the motive there). But if Vistana chose to sell, that's the actual problem.

I agree with you that if somehow things got bad and your existing ownership was no longer worth it or desirable, etc., then yes, you might want to look elsewhere rather than throw more money in. Totally and completely agree.

I misunderstood what you were trying to say then. It sounded like you were one of those saying rent everything buy nothing, not even resale. Of course, my question was going to be then why don't you sell what you have but you didn't mean that. Sorry about that,

 

[CPNY]

Ok, so, no, it is not a fact that spending money for a direct timeshare is a head scratcher when you can buy resale for half the price (Marriott). That would be true if the products were identical, they are not. What you get direct vs resale is different. Of course, it's a moot point for the most part now as you can't buy direct for the most part in the US. But I did buy an enrolled week in Spain and there are benefits to that. Apples and Oranges. Though some do still buy direct in order to change their resales into enrolled weeks.

In order for Marriott to buy Vistana, Vistana had to sell right? So, why not direct that disappointment to Vistana who you were loyal to? Did Marriott force them to sell? (Actually I don't know the motive there). But if Vistana chose to sell, that's the actual problem.

I agree with you that if somehow things got bad and your existing ownership was no longer worth it or desirable, etc., then yes, you might want to look elsewhere rather than throw more money in. Totally and completely agree.

I misunderstood what you were trying to say then. It sounded like you were one of those saying rent everything buy nothing, not even resale. Of course, my question was going to be then why don't you sell what you have but you didn't mean that. Sorry about that,

Yes there are times where a direct purchase can be beneficial but there are usually specific circumstances around that. A purchase to enroll a week into DC or an enrolled week direct from marriott for some may be worth it. For the most part resale is best. The TUG mantra has always been rescind, research, resale.

I am def not one of those people who are against owning, as a matter of fact I’m closing in another as we speak. Heck, I even bought an independent for RCI points!

for the record I don’t hate Marriott lol

 

[VacationForever]

Everything which we now own was bought directly from the developers. Buying MVC resale post-June 2010 just does not work for us. We like the flexibility of being in MVC DC system, even though we use II more than directly booking through points. We have also resold all of our resale purchases in various systems.

 

[dioxide45]

Moderator Note: Yep, this is a monster thread. But until official notice is provided to all Vistana owners/members (and hopefully all MVW owners/members simultaneously,) every report from every source - sales presentations included - will be merged into this thread. If we learned anything from the initial rollout of the Destination Club all those years ago, it's that even the sales reps who thought they understood the program, didn't. Please, until you've gotten official notice and written documentation that proves what any Vistana/Marriott employees are telling you, don't open new threads with what is still basically speculation.

There have been some marketing materials with fine print that seem to indicate certain things as well images of a number of DC point charts for Vistana properties, so it is not all speculation.

 

[SueDonJ]

There have been some marketing materials with fine print that seem to indicate certain things as well images of a number of DC point charts for Vistana properties, so it is not all speculation.

Yes, but what I understand is that people are taking clandestine photos of those materials because the sales reps who are using it to entice sales are not allowing the materials to be taken from the room. For purposes of educating owners/members as to the program specifics, IMO everything is speculation until it's made available to every owner/member through official channels that don't serve only to bolster sales.

 

[KS2beach]

another Tug member said their salesperson said 2600 for the WKV 81,000. Did you see the 2,850 in writing on a slide,. or was it just verbal? I hope it's the 2850

yes we saw it in writing on a slide, we had the 2bedroom lock off gold plus season and the exchange was 2,850.. and I will say seeing the new 2023 book about how many DC points to stay at Westin made my head spin.. so Many breaks and different rates like week by week different almost, I will try and attach a few pics I took one is of WRF AND OTHER WKV

 

[dioxide45]

Yes, but what I understand is that people are taking clandestine photos of those materials because the sales reps who are using it to entice sales are not allowing the materials to be taken from the room. For purposes of educating owners/members as to the program specifics, IMO everything is speculation until it's made available to every owner/member through official channels that don't serve only to bolster sales.

Sadly, MVC has made the sale office the only method to obtain such information. This seems to be the method that VAC corp has chosen and is endorsing, at least for now, as the official channel.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I am def not one of those people who are against owning, as a matter of fact I’m closing in another as we speak. Heck, I even bought an independent for RCI points!

That is also something I could never do, buy a different system. Optimizing ownership in one system is enough work for me. It may make better financial sense, but money isn't everything. People like you, vacationforever, traveltime, etc. apparently can handle it. I have so much to do as is in my retired life.

 

[Red elephant]

Sadly, MVC has made the sale office the only method to obtain such information. This seems to be the method that VAC corp has chosen and is endorsing, at least for now, as the official channel.

I was under the impression this was a soft launch so only sales would have this information. I could be wrong. I called central office and asked for my conversion and the gave me 2600 for SVV. WSJ and Nanea needed tweaking. I have not called back since then.

 

[CPNY]

That is also something I could never do, buy a different system. Optimizing ownership in one system is enough work for me. It may make better financial sense, but money isn't everything. People like you, vacationforever, traveltime, etc. apparently can handle it. I have so much to do as is in my retired life.

Idk about handle it….. I’m always so dang confused on what to book. My company gave us unlimited PTO so it’s dangerous LOL

 

[Ken555]

Yep, I get it. I would probably be annoyed myself. Though, there is a thread here where numerous people are reporting trips that cost less Bonvoy points since the change.

I’ll have to find that thread.

And some more also of course. I suppose it depends on the specific properties. For me, not an issue as I just go where it's cheap and I'd want to go anyway. Random places, no plan. That's the way I travel. If today I see something and it's a decent deal I go for it.

I’ve done this many times myself. It’s wonderful to have low expectations and just book and go.

My goal is currently to stay at every single MVCI. No good reason, cause I can. For Bonvoy points I have my own way of using them and get great value out of them. Far more than any cashback card. For others, not so much and yes, if it doesn't make sense, change where you send your business. If you truly believe "devalue" then change.

As I wrote, I might. It all depends on how it goes for me, but at the moment it’s not very positive. I’m certainly willing to let the facts prove otherwise.

There is no problem with sticking with what you have. In the past, that's the way Marriott has worked. They might give you more options, you will likely pay for it, but you could always use what you have as you had it. I have liked that aspect. No one here had to convert to destinations points, their options have remained. I could still have my week unenrolled, but enrolled gave too many advantages that I wanted. Change is always stressful.

The reason I bought marriott was more destinations originally in program. I don't often travel (other than DSV and Branson) to the same town over and over. I travel all around the world, and while Marriott doesn't have tons of overseas options, where they have it I will go. Yes, could trade into others but want to stay at Marriott where I can. And it was the best choice for that back in 1999. At least for me. I'm not knocking you guys at all. I get it. And I love when timeshares owners of any brand are happy with what they have! See too many horror stories, whether Marriott or any other brand. If you can continue to use what you always had the way you have, then, you should be mostly happy.

Yup.

But I don't see the point of coming over to Marriott forums and constantly complaining about things you say you don't want. If you don't want or won't use those options, don't!

Y’know, you are being too defensive, as has already been pointed out. I’m a long time timeshare owner and contributor to TUG. I have contributed to many Marriott threads in the past, and my opinion on the current events and how it impacts me might be valuable to others. Your attempt to stop discussion by denigrating my post is unwelcome.


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[Clifbell]

Sadly, MVC has made the sale office the only method to obtain such information. This seems to be the method that VAC corp has chosen and is endorsing, at least for now, as the official channel.

Certainly my experience... I am hoping this is the "soft launch" and the official launch will be more manageable.

 

[rcv82]

yes we saw it in writing on a slide, we had the 2bedroom lock off gold plus season and the exchange was 2,850.. and I will say seeing the new 2023 book about how many DC points to stay at Westin made my head spin.. so Many breaks and different rates like week by week different almost, I will try and attach a few pics I took one is of WRF AND OTHER WKV

It’s interesting that they have Westin Riverfront information given that it’s supposedly one of two Vistana resorts not initially participating in the integrated program.


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[CPNY]

It’s interesting that they have Westin Riverfront information given that it’s supposedly one of two Vistana resorts not initially participating in the integrated program.


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Makes me wonder if they have the same for Harborside resort

 

[Red elephant]

Makes me wonder if they have the same for Harborside resort

When I asked central sales about HRA they did not have conversion for it yet as it would not be included til 2024.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Y’know, you are being too defensive, as has already been pointed out.

And as I had already replied back to CPNY but applies to you as well, I obviously misunderstood what you two were saying. As I told him, sorry about that.

And to use a CPNY word, you say defensive, I say loyal.

Hopefully all the uncertainty will end before too much longer. Heck, I want to know if I'll be able to stay at various Vistana resorts, esp where there are no Marriotts and how that will work exactly, along with availability, etc. Will be very interesting.

 

[dougp26364]

There have been some marketing materials with fine print that seem to indicate certain things as well images of a number of DC point charts for Vistana properties, so it is not all speculation.

Yes, but what I understand is that people are taking clandestine photos of those materials because the sales reps who are using it to entice sales are not allowing the materials to be taken from the room. For purposes of educating owners/members as to the program specifics, IMO everything is speculation until it's made available to every owner/member through official channels that don't serve only to bolster sales.

It looks real up until the point they won’t let you take the information with you. I’ve seen far to many dog and pony shows from sales teams in the past.

A hard and fast rule of thumb for me is, if I can take the information with me, it’s real. If I can’t, it’s most likely fake news.

I want to believe what I’m seeing, but when they force everyone onto the sales floor for information and won’t let anyone take anything with them other than clandestine pictures……we’ll then it doesn’t pass the sniff test.

I’ll wait until the hard release when it’s all in writing for everyone to see. Until then, I think I’ll stay on my timeshare couch rather than waste time of smoke and mirrors sales presentations where I’m not allowed to take any presentation literature with me.

 

[kozykritter]

It’s interesting that they have Westin Riverfront information given that it’s supposedly one of two Vistana resorts not initially participating in the integrated program.


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It's not participating yet from the Vistana owner side being able to elect DC points. That likely wouldn't affect Marriott owners being able to book with points in the opposite direction if somehow inventory was available to them (take backs, unsold Flex, who knows how!) as a DC exchange transaction once the IT is in place to support it. They had to prepare a DC points chart for every Vistana property for booking use, whether that's at initial program rollout or a year or two from now. It's a sales tool at the very least.

WRF's chart tracks very similar to fellow ski resort Mountainside which makes sense.

 

[Eric B]

take backs, unsold Flex, who knows how

I would include managed shared bulk inventory deposited in II - others have posted that this does occur.