There is Hope: Germany’s Death Rate is 0.18%

[pedro47]

The more numbers Germany report as confirmed coronavirus cases now their death rate will be low. It is all about basic mathematics.

The large numbers of death reported in Italy may be caused because physician will not treat patients over sixty years old.

 

[b2bailey]

The more numbers Germany report as confirmed coronavirus cases now their death rate will be low. It is all about basic mathematics.

The large numbers of death reported in Italy may be caused because physician will not treat patients over sixty years old.

Regarding Italy, been thinking about the great number of elderly there. Had forgotten many of the elderly have most likely been lifelong smokers who somehow escaped lung cancer, making them ultra vulnerable.

 

[bnoble]

I didn't want to remind her about it, she's scarred enough. My thinking is that I won't tell anyone about it if she has corona. I don't know if it's on file anywhere.

She might not want anything changed...

 

[bluehende]

Health care directives do not specify what you can and cann't do. The one I signed says no extraordinary measures and gives my wife the decision of what that means. I would be surprised that a respirator for covid 19 would be that. The expected outcome is positive albeit not always.

 

[pedro47]

Feared of the unknown is also killing the elderly around the world.

 

[geekette]

Feared of the unknown is also killing the elderly around the world.

What do you mean?

 

[TravelTime]

What do you mean?

Uncertainty leads to anxiety disorders, depression and other mental health problems. Most people are scared about the unknown maybe even more so than getting the virus itself. I have heard some people say they would like to get sick and get it over with. I am seeing people panicking because they do not know what comes next. A lot of people are panicked about losing their job. I have been surprised that Tuggers are so worried about dying. That risk is actually small.

 

[TravelTime]

According the the article: "The novel coronavirus appears at first to be a problem of risk management. It is a dangerous disease that threatens the lives of our neighbors and loved ones. Our response—increased social distancing, shutting down businesses—is aimed at reducing that risk. But the problem isn’t risk so much as uncertainty."

Opinion | Risk, Uncertainty and Coronavirus

We don’t have enough data to know whether drastic lockdowns are worth the economic damage.

www.wsj.com

 

[geekette]

Uncertainty leads to anxiety disorders, depression and other mental health problems. Most people are scared about the unknown maybe even more so than getting the virus itself. I have heard some people say they would like to get sick and get it over with. I am seeing people panicking because they do not know what comes next. A lot of people are panicked about losing their job. I have been surprised that Tuggers are so worried about dying. That risk is actually small.

Not sure where you get that Tuggers are so worried about dying. I haven't been out so I am not seeing people panic, or fret over job loss. I'm sure it's out there.

It seems to me that anxiety takes a lot longer to kill than a deadly virus.

 

[TravelTime]

Not sure where you get that Tuggers are so worried about dying. I haven't been out so I am not seeing people panic, or fret over job loss. I'm sure it's out there.

It seems to me that anxiety takes a lot longer to kill than a deadly virus.

People are panicking about the possibility of dying. Even you are calling this a "deadly virus." In just reading the posts on Tug, I see a lot of worry and panic. Why do you think people so worried about getting sick from this virus? We have been told that this virus is more contagious and more deadly than other viruses. This is why everyone is staying home and businesses have had to shut down. This is what people are worried about. If the death rate is shown to be low, then people will probably stop panicking and look back on this as an overreaction. The fear and uncertainty is probably worse than getting the virus itself.

P.S. My DH got an email last night saying that suicides are up in our county. So anxiety and depression can kill pretty rapidly. Let's not underestimate the other impacts of the panic.

 

[pedro47]

The unknown of fear causes depression, higher blood pressure reading, heart problems, mental health problems & a variety of diseases; plus, the lack of sleep by worrying which can causes nightmares and the increase in suicide . Finally, fear can cause tension in a family, a relationship or in a community. IMHO.

 

[Roger830]

She might not want anything changed...

She has something else going on that I didn't intend to get into.

January she had a mammogram and a small spot showed but not on ultrasound.
Less than 3 weeks ago she had mri that showed 1/4 inch lump.
Less than 2 weeks ago a biopsy detected cancer.
She was operated on Thursday, radiation for 4 weeks in about a month, then pills.
Tomorrow we were to leave for Vegas to celebrate her 70th birthday this Saturday.
Her younger sister had a similar operation last year, she has 2 daughters, there could be a hereditary gene.

With all of that going on, I don't want to mention her will.

 

[TravelTime]

She has something else going on that I didn't intend to get into.

January she had a mammogram and a small spot showed but not on ultrasound.
Less than 3 weeks ago she had mri that showed 1/4 inch lump.
Less than 2 weeks ago a biopsy detected cancer.
She was operated on Thursday, radiation for 4 weeks in about a month, then pills.
Tomorrow we were to leave for Vegas to celebrate her 70th birthday this Saturday.
Her younger sister had a similar operation last year, she has 2 daughters, there could be a hereditary gene.

With all of that going on, I don't want to mention her will.

Wow, I am really sorry about this. It sounds like you and your wife are going through a really rough time. I hope she will be okay.

 

[Tia]

I thought they had closed Vegas down?

Tomorrow we were to leave for Vegas to celebrate her 70th birthday this Saturday.

 

[VacationForever]

I thought they had closed Vegas down?

Only hotels are closed down. Most(?), timeshare remain open. Marriott's Grand Chateau is open.

 

[Tia]

Interesting considering https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/...-shutdown-of-nonessential-businesses-1987014/

Only hotels are closed down. Most(?), timeshare remain open. Marriott's Grand Chateau is open.

 

[geekette]

People are panicking about the possibility of dying. Even you are calling this a "deadly virus." In just reading the posts on Tug, I see a lot of worry and panic. Why do you think people so worried about getting sick from this virus? We have been told that this virus is more contagious and more deadly than other viruses. This is why everyone is staying home and businesses have had to shut down. This is what people are worried about. If the death rate is shown to be low, then people will probably stop panicking and look back on this as an overreaction. The fear and uncertainty is probably worse than getting the virus itself.

P.S. My DH got an email last night saying that suicides are up in our county. So anxiety and depression can kill pretty rapidly. Let's not underestimate the other impacts of the panic.

I don't actually think it would kill me, but I also do not want pneumonia. Had it once and not at all keen on being in a hospital for weeks struggling to breathe. Even if I will be a mild case (and none of us know), I am still aiming for far end of the curve. Nothing has changed for me for many many weeks. I'll get sick later, and whatever level of sick I get, is whatever level of sick I get.

The need for ventilators is real. Cases that need ventilators become much more difficult when there are none. That's the deadly part, when medical need outpaces medical supply.

I will believe the suicide rate is up when we have actual data on that. I think we are far away from that becoming a serious problem due to pandemic, as we are still in the early stages of this. Not saying we didn't have people on their last nerve before this - that is absolutely true, and I'd think we've had a high level since 2008 since some people never got back to where they were, even 10 years later.

yes, mental health, stress, etc., are real concerns. Maybe it's easier for me living alone, not needing to keep someone calm (my ex husband was anxiety-ridden and would have long ago jumped to worst case scenario to fret about).

 

[Roger830]

I thought they had closed Vegas down?

We canceled Vegas two weeks ago, stuck with airline tickets.
We had a river view room in Laughlin for 3 days, then an RCI extra vacation for a week, 50% refund.

The big one is a trip to AK late August. Today I canceled 26 glacier cruise. They seat you by when you book so I booked when they opened mid-October.
I also canceled a harbor tour that I booked when I caught a sale. I'm hoping that they're not low on money. I can re-book if we go.

Still have two days lodging prepaid.

 

[Roger830]

Wow, I am really sorry about this. It sounds like you and your wife are going through a really rough time. I hope she will be okay.

Fortunately they caught the cancer early.
It would have really been depressing if the operation was delayed by 2-6 months.
Our neighbor had a knee surgery postponed until the end of May.

 

[Roger830]

More sad news.
A few days ago in post #18, I talked about how the death rate was high because many that have corona were never tested and that my sister in law was visiting her mother in law and her two brother in laws were coughing. Soon after the mother in law was hospitalized with corona. She is now on hospice.

My sister in law was tested Friday because she had symptoms. In the past few hours she received her results (3 days later) which are positive. Fortunately she is feeling much better. She's 53 years old, her 60 year old husband wasn't tested and never got sick.

 

[TravelTime]

More sad news.
A few days ago in post #18, I talked about how the death rate was high because many that have corona were never tested and that my sister in law was visiting her mother in law and her two brother in laws were coughing. Soon after the mother in law was hospitalized with corona. She is now on hospice.

My sister in law was tested Friday because she had symptoms. In the past few hours she received her results (3 days later) which are positive. Fortunately she is feeling much better. She's 53 years old, her 60 year old husband wasn't tested and never got sick.

This is sad news. I am sorry to hear it. How old is the MIL?

 

[Roger830]

I don't know her age, possibly 80's, but she had been failing.

 

[b2bailey]

More sad news.
A few days ago in post #18, I talked about how the death rate was high because many that have corona were never tested and that my sister in law was visiting her mother in law and her two brother in laws were coughing. Soon after the mother in law was hospitalized with corona. She is now on hospice.

My sister in law was tested Friday because she had symptoms. In the past few hours she received her results (3 days later) which are positive. Fortunately she is feeling much better. She's 53 years old, her 60 year old husband wasn't tested and never got sick.

This is the first time I've heard the term Hospice in conjunction with COVID-19. I'm thinking it's the compassionate way to say we're not hooking her up to ventilator. (Whether spoken by doctor or family).

 

[Roger830]

The mother in law is 93 years old and on a morphine drip.
She was offered a ventilator today, but refused. She was on oxygen at home.
A son that she was living with is with her and if he leaves the hospital can't come back.

Now my sister in law is feeling better with a small dry cough but her husband has a fever.

 

[TravelTime]

I don't actually think it would kill me, but I also do not want pneumonia. Had it once and not at all keen on being in a hospital for weeks struggling to breathe. Even if I will be a mild case (and none of us know), I am still aiming for far end of the curve. Nothing has changed for me for many many weeks. I'll get sick later, and whatever level of sick I get, is whatever level of sick I get.

The need for ventilators is real. Cases that need ventilators become much more difficult when there are none. That's the deadly part, when medical need outpaces medical supply.

I will believe the suicide rate is up when we have actual data on that. I think we are far away from that becoming a serious problem due to pandemic, as we are still in the early stages of this. Not saying we didn't have people on their last nerve before this - that is absolutely true, and I'd think we've had a high level since 2008 since some people never got back to where they were, even 10 years later.

yes, mental health, stress, etc., are real concerns. Maybe it's easier for me living alone, not needing to keep someone calm (my ex husband was anxiety-ridden and would have long ago jumped to worst case scenario to fret about).

This is a good article about the impact of financial crisis on health. It says: ...a rise in deaths linked to long-term economic hardship — suicide, overdoses and the like — has caused devastation in communities across the middle of the country, leading to a troubling recent decline in U.S. life expectancy. Economic prosperity is a matter of public health, too — the necessary condition for it, in fact. The United States must respond to the coronavirus accordingly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-feds-hypothetical-stress-test-is-now-all-too-real/2020/03/23/f0d3a1fa-6d22-11ea-a3ec-70d7479d83f0_story.html

Keep in mind that the Washington Post is liberal. For them to be arguing that economic prosperity is a necessary condition for public health and the the USA should respond accordingly says a lot. I keep thinking that the "cure" for the coronavirus is worse than the virus itself.