The Logic of My Mind: Masks

[geekette]

....Since humans are biologically wired to avoid illness and disease, the mask has become the symbol of cleanliness, safety and caring. Unconsciously, we may think: Mask wearers are safe people. They do not want to harm me or anyone else. They are good people who I can trust.

eh, I can't go that far, but perhaps for you and others the mask is such a symbol. To me, it's a protective device and that's all it is. I absolutely do not consider masked persons to be all around good trustworthy people. Considerate is the only quality I would attach to the mask.

 

[slip]

Early in the pandemic, we didn't know of asymptomatic spread. He's wearing a mask now.

As info changes, so do people's opinions and advice. Even Dr Fauci.

I was just responding to the consistent message comment.

 

[bbodb1]

.... Since humans are biologically wired to avoid illness and disease, the mask has become the symbol of cleanliness, safety and caring. Unconsciously, we may think: Mask wearers are safe people. They do not want to harm me or anyone else. They are good people who I can trust.

Hmmm. Going to have to ponder on that for a bit....

 

[geekette]

I was just responding to the consistent message comment.

Yeah, I know. Just pointing out that most of us reserve the right to change our minds as new info comes to light. It seems like people have forgotten this about themselves (not directed at you, slip).

Scientists are forever learning new info and formulating new theories and establishing new facts. This novel coronavirus did not exist until recently. Nobody last September was going around with a mask on around here, unless they had an illness (my hospital has had signage up about this for a long time; wear a mask in here if you are coughing or feverish). But then, something changed, something new in the world. And as new info has come to light, advice changed, behaviors changed.

There is much we do not yet know. Matters surrounding immunity, re-infection, etc., are big questions that we hope to solve quickly, along with effective treatments, vaccines, etc. As we get answers, and reliability to those answers, I expect our behaviors will continue to change.

 

[WVBaker]

To clarify: by "official" I mean the advice dispensed during the daily briefings from the WH. I think the term "official" can apply.

Not sure what you mean by the candle question being used for the opposite conclusion, but my point was/is this: we all choose in various ways to mitigate certain risks. Most of us pay for fire insurance on our homes, for instance, even tho it costs hundreds of dollars. We don't balk when auto inspection is required for license plate renewal, since safety is potentially compromised by an unsafe vehicle - even though we have to pay for the inspection, and it's an inconvenience. We don't mind being required by local or state or federal law to wear shoes into a restaurant or shop.

When the risk is potentially high, as in life or death for some, and the cost is almost nothing, as in the case with masks, it's interesting to me that there is such widespread resistance, as if this is an unforgiveable threat to our freedom. Why is this so different than my examples above?

Well, that is where we differ in some way I suppose. I consider your referenced in this case to be, informed advice. But, tomato, tomahto as they say.

Should masks become required by law for all aspects of life, we'll have little choice. Until that point in time though. I will suggest this. If you believe a mask will protect you from this virus, purchase the mask that offers you the very best protection possible, regardless of cost. That way you can feel secure in knowing you've done everything you can. That way you needn't worry what others are doing or not doing. I would ask though, please don't expect me or any others who
feel the same way, to unquestionably accept whatever fears you and others may or may not have. Do what it takes to protect you. You have a choice, as do those who choose not to.

What it comes down to is, it rests with me to protect myself from whatever danger I may or may not encounter in life. If I in some way, think you're a threat to me, I will do whatever it takes to protect me and my family. I'm not asking you to do that for me.

 

[Brett]

Well, that is where we differ in some way I suppose. I consider your referenced in this case to be, informed advice. But, tomato, tomahto as they say.

Should masks become required by law for all aspects of life, we'll have little choice. Until that point in time though. I will suggest this. If you believe a mask will protect you from this virus, purchase the mask that offers you the very best protection possible, regardless of cost. That way you can feel secure in knowing you've done everything you can. That way you needn't worry what others are doing or not doing. I would ask though, please don't expect me or any others who
feel the same way, to unquestionably accept whatever fears you and others may or may not have. Do what it takes to protect you. You have a choice, as do those who choose not to.

What it comes down to is, it rests with me to protect myself from whatever danger I may or may not encounter in life. If I in some way, think you're a threat to me, I will do whatever it takes to protect me and my family. I'm not asking you to do that for me.

I don't believe wearing masks will become a "law" - federal or state
But certainly some businesses require masks for employees

 

[WVBaker]

As info changes, so do people's opinions and advice. Even Dr Fauci.

Ah yes, Dr. Fauci. The same "expert" who predicted 240,000 deaths in the U.S. It is possible but, we have quite a ways to go.

 

[Brett]

Ah yes, Dr. Fauci. The same "expert" who predicted 240,000 deaths in the U.S. It is possible but, we have quite a ways to go.

Ah yes, maybe it's GREAT that people believed Dr. Fauci's advice and the coronavirus deaths are only 90,000

 

[cman]

Whatever you do, please don't be like this guy. Costco should give Tison a raise;

 

[Luanne]

Ah yes, Dr. Fauci. The same "expert" who predicted 240,000 deaths in the U.S. It is possible but, we have quite a ways to go.

Didn't he revise that.

So far we're just under 100,000 and that is in how many months? Unless this just goes away the death toll will keep rising.

 

[WVBaker]

Ah yes, maybe it's GREAT that people believed Dr. Fauci's advice and the coronavirus deaths are only 90,000

Hey Brett... good to see you. Yes, I suppose that is one way to look at it.

 

[Brett]

Hey Brett... good to see you. Yes, I suppose that is one way to look at it.

good to see U 2

we know you religiously follow another person ....

 

[geekette]

Ah yes, Dr. Fauci. The same "expert" who predicted 240,000 deaths in the U.S. It is possible but, we have quite a ways to go.

That wasn't his model. And I do believe we will pass that.

 

[WVBaker]

good to see U 2

we know you religiously follow another person ....

 

[geekette]

If you believe a mask will protect you from this virus, purchase the mask that offers you the very best protection possible, regardless of cost. That way you can feel secure in knowing you've done everything you can. That way you needn't worry what others are doing or not doing.

I would have to put a mask on you for my protection. This is the key issue - it is droplets from others that are my risk. The mask I wear protects You.

 

[bbodb1]

good to see U 2

Wait! What?

 

[slip]

That wasn't his model. And I do believe we will pass that.

That projection in that model had a date on it though. It was by May or June. It wasn’t a projection for the whole pandemic.

 

[TravelTime]

I was given a mask by a hospital where I had a procedure done. This mask is so poorly designed that I do not think it protects me or anyone else. The mask constantly falls off my face. It has ties and I can never get them tied tight enough so the mask is loose. I reuse the mask because I am still waiting to receive new masks in the mail, which is also not the best practice as I am more likely to infect myself with reusing a mask. My husband has a homemade mask that he made following one of the health expert’s online instructions and it is also really poor. I ordered masks and bandanas through Amazon almost 2 months ago and I am still waiting. Before getting this mask from the hospital, I used a scarf but the scarf was porous so in reality it was not effective and it was wool, so really hot to use. Does anyone have a link to where I could promptly get an effective mask? Others told me where to look before but the wait time on their suggestions was too long and I already have an order in. If I could find a place with good masks that can deliver quickly, I would order some more. Given my experience with our masks, I think just because someone is wearing a mask does not mean they are wearing an effective one.

 

[Ken555]

I was given a mask by a hospital where I had a procedure done. This mask is so poorly designed that I do not think it protects me or anyone else. The mask constantly falls off my face. It has ties and I can never get them tied tight enough so the mask is loose. I reuse the mask because I am still waiting to receive new masks in the mail, which is also not the best practice as I am more likely to infect myself with reusing a mask. My husband has a homemade mask that he made following one of the health expert’s online instructions and it is also really poor. I ordered masks and bandanas through Amazon almost 2 months ago and I am still waiting. Before getting this mask from the hospital, I used a scarf but the scarf was porous so in reality it was not effective and it was wool, so really hot to use. Does anyone have a link to wear I could promptly get an effective mask? Others told me where to look before but the wait time on their suggestions was too long and I already have an order in. If I could find a place with good masks that can deliver quickly, I would order some more. Given my experience with our masks, I think just because someone is wearing a mask does not mean they are wearing an effective one.

Wow. I ordered masks early on and they arrived a long time ago. I also ordered more just a couple weeks ago from a big name brand and am waiting now for those.

“Effective” is debatable right now, but anything is almost certainly better than nothing. And now there are more and more companies producing masks. Even the print on demand manufacturers are in the game now. You shouldn’t have any difficulty finding masks, though almost every source will have some delay at delivering since they are only now ramping up production. Expectations need to be reasonable, and I know we had posts on this in March and April...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Brett]

I have a collection of masks - homemade, bought online from Amazon, gifts
the efficacy of all the masks is similar but no empirical tests have been performed

 

[bbodb1]

....Since humans are biologically wired to avoid illness and disease, the mask has become the symbol of cleanliness, safety and caring. Unconsciously, we may think: Mask wearers are safe people. They do not want to harm me or anyone else. They are good people who I can trust.

Okay, pondering complete.

My first thought about masks was NOT as a symbol similar to what you describe in the quote @TravelTime - rather I see the mask and associate its presence with disease, filth and weakness. We 'mask up' when we don't want (or can't stand) a smell, need to avoid fumes or other things that should not be inhaled. We 'mask up' to protect our 'weak' self from something external so powerful or overwhelming. I see masks as more a portent of suffering or even death. I recall reading the stories of gas used in World War I and the woefully inadequate countermeasures masks were to that end.

Idle thought: this may connect to something @Panina opined in another thread about Males and masks.

Prior to COVID 19, I would suggest the mask had mostly a negative connotation.
Unless, of course, one was a super hero....but then again those masks (the mask of a super hero) were only to hide identity and not to protect the 'weak' self from the outside threats.

Seriously though, I cannot see masks as a positive as you do given what they are mostly associated with historically in my mind.
But I really found your point interesting as it made me think about how an object emotes feelings - both positive and negative.

 

[cman]

I was given a mask by a hospital where I had a procedure done. This mask is so poorly designed that I do not think it protects me or anyone else. The mask constantly falls off my face. It has ties and I can never get them tied tight enough so the mask is loose. I reuse the mask because I am still waiting to receive new masks in the mail, which is also not the best practice as I am more likely to infect myself with reusing a mask. My husband has a homemade mask that he made following one of the health expert’s online instructions and it is also really poor. I ordered masks and bandanas through Amazon almost 2 months ago and I am still waiting. Before getting this mask from the hospital, I used a scarf but the scarf was porous so in reality it was not effective and it was wool, so really hot to use. Does anyone have a link to where I could promptly get an effective mask? Others told me where to look before but the wait time on their suggestions was too long and I already have an order in. If I could find a place with good masks that can deliver quickly, I would order some more. Given my experience with our masks, I think just because someone is wearing a mask does not mean they are wearing an effective one.

Here's a link to an article with a few options;

Here’s Where You Can Buy A Face Mask Online Right Now

Wearing a face mask in public has become standard procedure for millions of Americans. Here are some of the best options available for purchase.

www.forbes.com

Here's a more recent article:

Seven face masks that are well-made and available right now

Whether you’re looking for silk or cotton, prints or solid colors, these face masks make everyday PPE easy.

www.fastcompany.com

 

[TravelTime]

Okay, pondering complete.

My first thought about masks was NOT as a symbol similar to what you describe in the quote @TravelTime - rather I see the mask and associate its presence with disease, filth and weakness. We 'mask up' when we don't want (or can't stand) a smell, need to avoid fumes or other things that should not be inhaled. We 'mask up' to protect our 'weak' self from something external so powerful or overwhelming. I see masks as more a portent of suffering or even death. I recall reading the stories of gas used in World War I and the woefully inadequate countermeasures masks were to that end.

Idle thought: this may connect to something @Panina opined in another thread about Males and masks.

Prior to COVID 19, I would suggest the mask had mostly a negative connotation.
Unless, of course, one was a super hero....but then again those masks (the mask of a super hero) were only to hide identity and not to protect the 'weak' self from the outside threats.

Seriously though, I cannot see masks as a positive as you do given what they are mostly associated with historically in my mind.
But I really found your point interesting as it made me think about how an object emotes feelings - both positive and negative.

I agree with you that masks have historically had a negative meaning. I am shocked at how quickly Americans have adopted masks, given its historical meaning.

 

[geekette]

That projection in that model had a date on it though. It was by May or June. It wasn’t a projection for the whole pandemic.

Not sure which model it comes from, the 2 million deaths by end of year? That might also have had a "by August" date on it. I dunno, I got "model weary" a long time ago. So many models.... so many different assumptions... It's all rather a crapshoot, same as my estimating size of my stock portfolio in 10 years... input known facts, input assumptions, draw lines. Then wait and see...

 

[Luanne]

I agree with you that masks have historically had a negative meaning. I am shocked at how quickly Americans have adopted masks, given its historical meaning.

I look at them like the masks medical personal wear. That doesn't have a negative connotation to me.

A bandana over the face brings up outlaws, but it also brings up cowboys using it to keep the dust out of their nose and mouth.

I guess you can look at face coverings and give them whatever meaning you want.