The Logic of My Mind: Masks

["Roger"]

.... I ordered masks and bandanas through Amazon almost 2 months ago and I am still waiting. ...

In addition to Post #147, here is another option. The State of Liberity is a private company, but they are making masks to be used at the U of Michigan hospital. When you order two masks, they donate a third to the U of Michigan hospital. (Or, you can donate some directly.) They will mail out your masks first class mail the next day. (Note, they day free shipping but that is only if you sign up to their outfit. I believe shipping was about four dollars.)

(For the record, I use two masks, the above and also a mask made by a friend who was using donated sheets to make masks and gowns for the Navaho nation. They are very different from each other and each has it advantages.)

 

[PigsDad]

I don't believe wearing masks will become a "law" - federal or state
But certainly some businesses require masks for employees

Well, it is "law" via executive orders, health department orders, etc. in several locales across the US right now (my county, included).

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

Wow. I ordered masks early on and they arrived a long time ago. I also ordered more just a couple weeks ago from a big name brand and am waiting now for those.

I ordered a 4-pack of masks (non-N95) around March 20th, and they still have not arrived. I guess it just depends on if you were lucky or not in choosing a company that was honest. And yes, they stated that they had masks in stock when I ordered via Amazon.

I've been using a bandanna in the mean time.

Kurt

 

[dsmrp]

I was given a mask by a hospital where I had a procedure done. This mask is so poorly designed that I do not think it protects me or anyone else. The mask constantly falls off my face. It has ties and I can never get them tied tight enough so the mask is loose. I reuse the mask because I am still waiting to receive new masks in the mail, which is also not the best practice as I am more likely to infect myself with reusing a mask. My husband has a homemade mask that he made following one of the health expert’s online instructions and it is also really poor. I ordered masks and bandanas through Amazon almost 2 months ago and I am still waiting. Before getting this mask from the hospital, I used a scarf but the scarf was porous so in reality it was not effective and it was wool, so really hot to use. Does anyone have a link to where I could promptly get an effective mask? Others told me where to look before but the wait time on their suggestions was too long and I already have an order in. If I could find a place with good masks that can deliver quickly, I would order some more. Given my experience with our masks, I think just because someone is wearing a mask does not mean they are wearing an effective one.

I worked off/on in an area adjacent to an OR. Occasionally we had to go into an OR room, so wore disposable masks with ties or elastic around the ears. Most of the surgical staff wear those pleated masks with ties. Ties are much more secure than elastic.

Try Etsy for masks. I haven't looked for masks myself, but recently I found mask making supplies on Etsy from smaller scale businesses that I couldn't find in the larger ones such as Amazon or JoAnn's, Hobby Lobby etc. The well-known businesses are all sold out.

I made fabric masks for DD cause she works at a smaller clinic, sees patients but couldn't order any medical grade masks. Pretty soon the doctors at her clinic wanted some for themselves for personal use. Then DD's friends wanted some, and I offered to my close friends and siblings. I can't keep up even with DD helping to cut fabric, as I still have a work from home full time job. She wasn't interested in sewing as a kid, and trying now. And it isn't that you can give just one mask to one person. I offered to a friend, and she wanted masks for everyone in her household, okay 4 masks...and then they wanted a spare to wear when the first has been worn and needs to be washed, so 4 became 7 (her husband didn't get a spare). Friend gave me a lot of fabric tho' that she had left over from years ago, so it was an unexpected good trade

 

[easyrider]

It's a strange time to me as I look back. Hindsight is 20/20. When this covid 19 thing started up we were told that there was a shortage of masks and that masks don't protect the general public. I had a bunch of n-95's and regular dust masks that were expired and no one wanted them. Suddenly, medical professionals ( EMT ) wanted them. I saved three for me for working on projects. Since masks were not required it was no problem.

After a couple of weeks go by you couldn't find a mask anywhere. At this time the CDC said that masks do help. Go figure. I had given two of the three I had left away. I wore the one remaining one use mask many times but realized most people going to essential businesses were not wearing a mask including the people that were working there.

Today, I have many masks that were given to me by the many mask makers with sewing machines. Some are cool like the Sea Hawk mask. I also have that dirty , grimy and looking very used mask on the seat of my old work truck. Lately it seems that old mask is the only one that is within reach when I actually need one. Go figure.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

I ordered a 4-pack of masks (non-N95) around March 20th, and they still have not arrived. I guess it just depends on if you were lucky or not in choosing a company that was honest. And yes, they stated that they had masks in stock when I ordered via Amazon.

I've been using a bandanna in the mean time.

Kurt

Have you wore it to the bank yet cowboy.

Bill

 

[geekette]

I ordered a 4-pack of masks (non-N95) around March 20th, and they still have not arrived. I guess it just depends on if you were lucky or not in choosing a company that was honest. And yes, they stated that they had masks in stock when I ordered via Amazon.

I've been using a bandanna in the mean time.

Kurt

holy crap, that's a long time! maybe FEMA swooped in and cleared them out and yours are on backorder.

 

[geekette]

It's a strange time to me as I look back. Hindsight is 20/20. When this covid 19 thing started up we were told that there was a shortage of masks and that masks don't protect the general public. I had a bunch of n-95's and regular dust masks that were expired and no one wanted them. Suddenly, medical professionals ( EMT ) wanted them. I saved three for me for working on projects. Since masks were not required it was no problem.

After a couple of weeks go by you couldn't find a mask anywhere. At this time the CDC said that masks do help. Go figure. I had given two of the three I had left away. I wore the one remaining one use mask many times but realized most people going to essential businesses were not wearing a mask including the people that were working there.

Today, I have many masks that were given to me by the many mask makers with sewing machines. Some are cool like the Sea Hawk mask. I also have that dirty , grimy and looking very used mask on the seat of my old work truck. Lately it seems that old mask is the only one that is within reach when I actually need one. Go figure.

Bill

I stashed bandanas in my glove box. I figure there will be a time or two that I forget, since I leave home so infrequently and don't wear them at home.

 

[presley]

If we just take a moment and reread our posts and ask, how would I feel if someone wrote this about me? Many of these posts wouldn’t be posted the way they are.

Yes, I thought about deleting/rewriting my post, but decided to leave it up as I meant it at the time that I posted it. I am sorry, @jme for quoting your post and drawing attention to it. At the same time, I did in fact mean what I said, but it's not something worth typing out for the world to see.

I ordered a 4-pack of masks (non-N95) around March 20th, and they still have not arrived. I guess it just depends on if you were lucky or not in choosing a company that was honest. And yes, they stated that they had masks in stock when I ordered via Amazon.

It took 2 months to get some hand sanitizer that I ordered mid March. It came 2 days ago and I had totally forgotten about the order by the time it came, other than I probably did a charge back and already won. I did a couple charge back for stuff I ordered from Amazon that had fake tracking numbers and arrived much later than it was supposed to, such as hand sanitizer coming 2 months later. It looks like it came directly from China and since I can't return it to Amazon, I am just keeping it.

 

[Monykalyn]

Now people are told masks are effective and you can just use a bandana, scarf, whatever you have laying around. That's not PPE.

No it is NOT and that is what is getting lost in all these "studies" showing how mask use cuts transmission. Most are using well fitted surgical masks designed to filtrate incoming particulates. It is harder to find studies on exhaled particulates and effecitiveness, although there are some out there, mainly from influenza studies.

t is one of the only visible pieces of evidence anyone has to judge if someone is complying with the guidelines

And boy do we love to judge others And that can be a danger in itself: I have allergies and asthma, strong odors can cause me to cough. With all the judgy mcjudgersons out there now I don't want to get beat up or shot because my lungs reacted! Mask or not...

I have a collection of masks - homemade, bought online from Amazon, gifts
the efficacy of all the masks is similar but no empirical tests have been performed

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

I found this and it does show rate of stopping particles being breathed out for various materials/layers. It also attempted to show how a mask that is not fitted as well lowers the efficacy by a large percent. Catching large droplets isn't the issue - sneezing or coughing into tissue/elbow will catch the large stuff; it is the small particles that are the issue-and gaps in a mask - like most cloth face coverings-lose efficiveness quickly.
I cannot find it now but I had read a study where they tested cloth masks from a skilled maker vs homemade ones from someone trying to follow the guidelines at home-and again rather large differences in how well they worked.

 

[PigsDad]

Have you wore it to the bank yet cowboy.

I feel like I am robbing the place when I enter a store with it on!

Kurt

 

[WVBaker]

I feel like I am robbing the place when I enter a store with it on!

Kurt

Man who wore watermelon on head while stealing from convenience store arrested, police say

Man who wore watermelon on head while stealing from convenience store arrested, police say

Virginia police arrested one suspect accused of stealing alcohol from a convenience store while wearing a hollowed-out watermelon on his head.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Cornell]

The latest from my suburban facebook group: Someone ranting about face masks hanging from rear view windows in cars and they need to be TAKEN DOWN! as they impede vision while driving.

Probably true , but the lecturing never ends.

 

[Laurie]

Probably true , but the lecturing never ends.

And who among us isn't ever guilty? Perhaps we could all keep in mind those bible verse about casting the first stones, and planks in our own eyes ...

 

[Luanne]

The latest from my suburban facebook group: Someone ranting about face masks hanging from rear view windows in cars and they need to be TAKEN DOWN! as they impede vision while driving.

Probably true , but the lecturing never ends.

Everyone is tired, anxious and the littlest things can be annoying and cause us to snap.

 

[Eric B]

If anyone "likes" a post, to me it means they agree with it. And if some says "I think", then whatever follows is their current interpretation of facts
and in a way, their belief. I'm simply trying to bring attention to a habitual practice of not giving due respect to recommendations and directives from qualified authorities that should be followed, not because I'm trying to butt in and restrict their freedoms, but if someone out there doesn't follow the accepted guidelines, they might just be affecting me and my family, and of course others. That is not good.
If it doesn't protect them, that's their choice, but obviously in this time of a world-wide pandemic which has not abated significantly,
it goes both ways.
I'll put it another way, protect yourself, and do no harm. Both. I'm not calling people out for not liking blue or red, or ranch or blue cheese dressing,
but for safe practices which could potentially cause severe sickness for someone else.
Not a time for going against the highest standard, and given my daily protocol as a healthcare provider, and what I happen to know,
I'm not apologizing for following the experts' advice or backing off.
I happen to have a family member who works at the highest level in epidemiological research at a major institution,
one of the nation's leading labs, and what they say carries some weight with me.
The ill-advised posters here who think this and think that are currently going against the grain of current knowledge, so I must speak out.
I am not trying to offend anyone, but I truly am trying to wake them up.
Some people ignore well-established facts, and that can be dangerous (in a worldwide ongoing pandemic, no less).

For the record, I "liked" this post, but I don't agree with it. One aspect that I "liked" was that it stated a personal opinion and I have dedicated mush of my adult life protecting the rights of people to express there personal opinions. I'm all about that. I also appreciated the discussion of protection and do no harm. There was a lot to like in this post; there were also aspects I disagree with. If we wanted to, we could have a reaction that was dedicated to complete 100% agreement with everything someone says in a post, but we don't. Instead, we just like stuff.

 

[geekette]

Sometimes a like is "I hear ya" or "thank you". A like from me is rarely I Completely Agree.

 

[Ken555]

On my feed this morning is this message from a hospital worker... just another opinion to add to the mix.

Good Lord. If I hear one more Ill informed drama queen whine about cloth or surgical masks causing profound lack of oxygenation I’m going to pass out and it won’t be due to severe hypoxia or “Co2 poisoning” it’ll be because my eyeballs have rolled so far back into my head that I’ve completely lost consciousness.
You do realize that surgeons and circulating nurses in the OR have worn surgical masks for entire shifts their whole careers, right? If there’s one group of people that you don’t want becoming hypoxic it’s the people holding power tools and scalpels over an anesthetized human with their insides hanging out. Surgical masks and their effects on oxygenation have been studied for decades. Except in rare instances of people with obstructive airway diseases, surgical masks (and by proxy, cloth masks) do not cause any problems whatsoever with adequate respiratory gas exchange.
You want to know why? Because surgical masks and cloth masks aren’t really “filtering” anything, including oxygen or Co2. That’s right, they aren’t respirators, like the n95 mask (which is filtering). Surgical and cloth masks serve 1 purpose and 1 purpose only; to minimize droplets, which can carry bacteria and virus, from A-leaving the immediate nose/mouth area of the mask wearer and B-from landing on the nose/mouth area of the mask wearer. That’s it. That’s all they do. That’s why they’re recommended for the general public to help minimize the spread of infectious droplets.
N95 masks are totally different. They are actually meant to filter, so they do restrict normal airflow. That is why they are not recommended for the public. If you are wearing an n95 mask around town and feeling short of breath, switch to a surgical or cloth mask. Simple as that.
All of these hysterical “masks are tyranny” people running around saying that cloth/surgical masks cause hypoxia are suffering from self-induced-anxiety-related hyperventilation that is completely preventable if they’d just calm the F down and stop looking for some made up reason to feel oppressed by the man.
You want other people’s infected droplets flying at your face, because you’ve been brain washed to believe the false narrative that you’re not breathing properly in a cloth mask, fine....don’t wear one. But if a business actually realizes that this action puts others at risk because now your “possibly infected” slobber is also spewing out into the faces of other people who are following reasonable guidelines to protect themselves and others by wearing a cloth mask, don’t stand on your wobbly soap box and whine about their decision to refuse service to your ignorant behind.
Cloth and surgical masks don’t cause problems with breathing for anyone without an obstructive airway disease or with normal facial anatomy. Period. End of discussion. Stop the hysteria and you’ll breathe fine with one on.
ETA: views are mine and are not expressed on behalf of any organization or employer.

 

[Cornell]

^^^ Lovely.

 

[WVBaker]

On my feed this morning is this message from a hospital worker... just another opinion to add to the mix.

Your "feed"?

 

[PigsDad]

Your "feed"?

I'm guessing Facebook. I saw the same thing reposted by a friend yesterday on my Facebook feed.

Kurt

 

[Cornell]

On my feed this morning is this message from a hospital worker... just another opinion to add to the mix.

I love the irony of this post. The writer calls out "drama queens" yet they say "t’ll be because my eyeballs have rolled so far back into my head that I’ve completely lost consciousness. " .

Now, WHO IS the drama queen ?

 

[Talent312]

I feel like I am robbing the place when I enter a store with it on!

More likely you are being robbed by paying for a crappy product (unless it's a fresh vegetable).

Overheard:
Customer to Door Checker: "Do I have to wear a mask to enter?"
Door Checker: "Yes, that's the rule. But we don't enforce it."
-------------------------
We ordered a pack of 50 felt masks thru Amazon and got 'em ~2 weeks later.
We shared some w-family and have ~20 left. I could fax you a few.

 

[Ken555]

I love the irony of this post. The writer calls out "drama queens" yet they say "t’ll be because my eyeballs have rolled so far back into my head that I’ve completely lost consciousness. " .

Now, WHO IS the drama queen ?

It's too bad we can't all try to be a little objective on this topic. It's obvious to me that the author is quite frustrated and needed to vent.

 

[Ken555]

I'm guessing Facebook. I saw the same thing reposted by a friend yesterday on my Facebook feed.

Kurt

Yup.