The Logic of My Mind: Masks

[Luanne]

It's too bad we can't all try to be a little objective on this topic. It's obvious to me that the author is quite frustrated and needed to vent.

It was written by a health care worker. I'm sure they are frustrated and need to vent..............a lot. I feel (my opinion) that it's a slap in the face to them when people refuse to wear masks for whatever reason.

 

[geist1223]

We were at Office Depot today for Printer Ink. They had 10 packs of Masks for $19.99.

 

[PigsDad]

We shared some w-family and have ~20 left. I could fax you a few.

Thanks for the offer, but I kind of like "playing cowboy". I just need to get myself a pair of s**t-kickers, spurs, a hat and a holster belt to complete the outfit.

Kurt

 

[Panina]

It was written by a health care worker. I'm sure they are frustrated and need to vent..............a lot. I feel (my opinion) that it's a slap in the face to them when people refuse to wear masks for whatever reason.

I was out today at a bank over the border in NC where the numbers are increasing. I needed to get papers notarized and it was the closest branch that had a notary. The bank policy is all employees wear masks.

I had to wait which I did outside. The notary came out to get me and had a mask on. I go into a small office, sign the papers, give him all the papers and documents needed. He then takes his mask off. I said can you please put it back on. He refused, said it bothers him, he will do what is good for him

I picked myself up and walked into the open space and told him from afar when you are done you can bring them out to me In the envelope on the table. He said you need to stay, I said why, you have everything you need. If your asymptomatic I don’t want it.

When he handed them to me I told him if you don’t want to follow your companies policy, your company should not ensure me that you will be wearing a mask. I told him I would let the company know.

About 20 minutes later I get a call from the district supervisor. The notary called him to tell him I was upset because I “thought” he wasn’t wearing his mask properly. He wasn’t wearing it at all.

 

[presley]

And boy do we love to judge others And that can be a danger in itself: I have allergies and asthma, strong odors can cause me to cough. With all the judgy mcjudgersons out there now I don't want to get beat up or shot because my lungs reacted! Mask or not...

I hear you. I am allergic to dust and it's normal for me to sneeze and blow my nose a couple times when I am out walking my dogs. I did notice at one point that I hadn't sneezed in several weeks - which has never happened before. I think maybe it's a side benefit of covering my nose and mouth. I was concerned the first couple weeks that I'd be shunned for blowing my nose, though.

 

[jme]

The horse isn't dead yet (nor is the Coronavirus pandemic), so I'll continue to share my message, reaffirmed here again,
this time via FoxNews' Chris Wallace interviewing Dr. Birx, who is the White House coronavirus task force coordinator.

Dr. Birx: 'Critically important' that people wear masks as states reopen amid higher than expected death tolls

White House coronavirus task force coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx warned that even though states are beginning to reopen, with some beaches being made available to the public over Memorial Day weekend, that people must still maintain social distancing precautions and wear masks where appropriate.

www.foxnews.com

 

[bbodb1]

From @jme post above, in the article was this statement:

..."[T]here’s clear scientific evidence now by all the droplet experiments that happen and that others have done to show that a mask does prevent droplets from reaching others," Birx told "Fox News Sunday," recognizing that Americans will want to get out over the holiday weekend. "And out of respect for each other, as Americans that care for each other we need to be wearing masks in public when we cannot social distance. It’s really critically important, we have the scientific evidence of how important mask wearing is to prevent those droplets from reaching others.”...

I just returned from a trip to town today and was paying even more attention that usual to the mask / no mask decision. It is worth noting that my trip involved stops at Home Depot, Kroger and Sam's. The timing of these visits were chosen in the hope of low crowd counts in each of these places of business, and sure enough, all three were sparsely populated during today's visit.

I did not - and do not - wear a mask. To be clear, I am not saying my decision is right or wrong but given the circumstances in our area, applying the standard noted by Dr. Blix above with respect to wearing a mask in the places I regularly visit, at the time(s) regularly visited and with the usual population density in these establishments during these visits does not seem to be a necessary act because a minimum social distance -and more- can be maintained at all times.

My goal in making this point is not to inflame this conversation, but to draw some consideration toward the decision that because a person chooses NOT to wear a mask, it does not follow that person is acting in an irresponsible way based solely on this decision. Is the person maintaining (at least) proper social distancing minimums and taking appropriate actions when sneezing or coughing - these things are harder to measure quickly, but are just as important toward stopping the spread of ANY virus.

I suppose another way of saying this is I live in a more rural area than most TUG'gers (I suspect) and what may be necessary in the big city doesn't apply everywhere equally. In reading responses over the past few days, I am pretty confident most TUG'gers would agree that one standard cannot apply everywhere and that we most be local in our approach to COVID 19, but at the same time, things can change - and our - and my - approach to dealing with COVID 19 may need to change as well.

 

[Monykalyn]

I did not - and do not - wear a mask. To be clear, I am not saying my decision is right or wrong but given the circumstances in our area, applying the standard noted by Dr. Blix above with respect to wearing a mask in the places I regularly visit, at the time(s) regularly visited and with the usual population density in these establishments during these visits does not seem to be a necessary act because a minimum social distance -and more- can be maintained at all times.

This is like my trip to Walmart Friday-few people in the store, everyone maintained distance, didn't try to crowd down aisles and few masks worn-I did wear a mask when I went to the pharmacy (even with the plexiglass and masked techs behind it) and at checkout-again closer proximity. I'd also note that places like Walmart and Home depot have huge square footage and very very high ceilings (at least mine do) and I'd expect air circulation to be better with these spaces as well.
I happened to time my trip to Walmart during a massive rain storm too-I expect that had a bit to do with how patient people were (no hurry back out to rain) and how few people there were LOL

 

[Panina]

Everyone can dissect what Dr Birx said to their view. I believe we will be hearing a lot more about wearing masks in the coming days.

Inside where other people are I will always wear a mask. Me breathing or talking creates droplets, if I sneeze my hand , tissue, sleeve will not hold back as much as a mask. The air conditioning pushing the air, my droplets can be moved more then 6 feet to others. Let me repeat as I said many times before, I hate wearing a mask but I do. I just cannot logically understand how others do not see it as a necessary precaution now.

 

[Ken555]

Why scientists are changing their minds and disagreeing during the coronavirus pandemic

The changing recommendations during the Covid-19 pandemic on things such as whether to wear face masks has confused the public and caused them to lose faith in science.

But changing your mind based on new evidence is a badge of honor in the scientific community.

The situation is complicated by the fact that pre-print research is often being debated in public on social media, instead of behind closed doors.

Why scientists are changing their minds and disagreeing about coronavirus — CNBC

In our culture, we often hold politicians, corporate executives and other leaders accountable for the consistency of their positions. But in the scientific world, thinking is expected to evolve based on new evidence — and that's happened during Covid-19.

apple.news

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Talent312]

The line "I see dead people" from the movie "The Sixth Sense" (1999)
really is appropriate for the hoards crowding the beaches this weekend.

I'd ask, "What are they thinking?" but I doubt there's any thought at all.

 

[geekette]

Why scientists are changing their minds and disagreeing during the coronavirus pandemic

Yes. Changing guidance hasn't bothered me, it makes sense, but it has clearly disturbed others into not knowing what to believe.

Science is not generally known for being fast (if you want accuracy and reliability), and we've only known about this thing since December. It seems like fast progress to me. Disagreement among scientists is ok with me, too, since if I were about to stand up a study, I would have in mind what I am trying to prove, which could vary oh so subtly from what the lady in the next lab is testing. or we could be testing the same hypothesis but one little assumption or method varies, and we are not doing the same study.

I am deeply grateful to those that are volunteering/will be volunteering to test ready-for-human meds. I am far too chicken for that, but will donate as much blood (eventually plasma?) as needed. For now, tho, I am keeping my contact list so low as to not even need to write it down.

 

[bbodb1]

I firmly agree with these points by @Ken555 and @geekette about the peer review process now playing out in public (on a much shorter time line) as opposed to how it traditionally played out not all that long ago. The problem, and this is where fault can be placed on the scientific community, is in the fact that every medical researcher, physician, or other health care related worker should know this to and should begin every recommendation with a disclaimer of "According to the available research as I/we interpret it at this time, I/we believe the best course of action is....."

And it should be repeated at every opportunity. There are still too many people in the scientific community who want to be 'that' expert the public constantly sees as opposed to playing their part in the research process.

I know the easy response is everyone should remember this with any announcement, but in this day and age the process to consider and weigh alternatives in the public view is akin to creating an uncharted minefield in a frequently used parking lot. Science (especially for the purpose of progress, reform or change) should realize the current social environment is not one in which the transactions required for thoughtful and intelligent discourse can openly take place in the manner in which it is doing so presently.

 

[Panina]

I read this in another group I belong to. Just a perspective from a grocery worker who has been working since the beginning.

”I have had a really hard week. I work in a grocery store, one of those essential workers. We have "opened up" to Phase II, which for many people meant time to get out and go. I had no idea that I would have the reaction to this that I did, I was so afraid that now I would be exposed even more, due to people not social distancing and refusing to wear a mask. I nearly went into a full break-down. The level of fear I felt, was a huge surprise to me. The anger that rose up in me, was overwhelming. I lost all control of my emotions the whole week and it got worse as the week went on.”

Thankfully she pushed through and is alright.

 

[Cornell]

I read this in another group I belong to. Just a perspective from a grocery worker who has been working since the beginning.

”I have had a really hard week. I work in a grocery store, one of those essential workers. We have "opened up" to Phase II, which for many people meant time to get out and go. I had no idea that I would have the reaction to this that I did, I was so afraid that now I would be exposed even more, due to people not social distancing and refusing to wear a mask. I nearly went into a full break-down. The level of fear I felt, was a huge surprise to me. The anger that rose up in me, was overwhelming. I lost all control of my emotions the whole week and it got worse as the week went on.”

Thankfully she pushed through and is alright.

My daughter, too, is a grocery store working who is also "essential" (she hates that term by the way). I can tell you that her feelings on this are 100% the opposite of these comments. So not all grocery workers feel this way. Far from it.

Sounds like the person you are quoting needs to take some time off .

 

[Luanne]

My daughter, too, is a grocery store working who is also "essential" (she hates that term by the way). I can tell you that her feelings on this are 100% the opposite of these comments. So not all grocery workers feel this way. Far from it.

Sounds like the person you are quoting needs to take some time off .

Oh I'll bet many grocery store workers, and health care workers, would love to take some time off.

You shared your dd's viewpoint. The other poster shared hers. No one person speaks for the majority of the grocery store workers.

I'm guessing long time grocery store workers have a different perspective than those who have only been at it a few month, and don't know what it was like "before".

 

[Panina]

My daughter, too, is a grocery store working who is also "essential" (she hates that term by the way). I can tell you that her feelings on this are 100% the opposite of these comments. So not all grocery workers feel this way. Far from it.

Sounds like the person you are quoting needs to take some time off .

My post was to show as you there are two sides. Empathy to both sides is where many are lacking. It could go a long way. I do not agree she needs to take time off as that is not an option. If she leaves no unemployment, no pay. She needs to feel safe. If everyone was following guidelines by the cdc she would not feel the way she does. Out of the grocery store everyone can do as they please. If all the workers in groceries that felt the way she does didn’t go to work would the grocery stores be able to function?

 

[Cornell]

Oh I'll bet many grocery store workers, and health care workers, would love to take some time off.

You shared your dd's viewpoint. The other poster shared hers. No one person speaks for the majority of the grocery store workers.

I'm guessing long time grocery store workers have a different perspective than those who have only been at it a few month, and don't know what it was like "before".

Correct. That's why I'm sharing an opposing point of view. Not everyone working in a public setting is universal in their feelings.

 

[Cornell]

My post was to show as you there are two sides. Empathy to both sides is where many are lacking. It could go a long way. I do not agree she needs to take time off as that is not an option. If she leaves no unemployment, no pay. She needs to feel safe. If everyone was following guidelines by the cdc she would not feel the way she does. Out of the grocery store everyone can do as they please. If all the workers in groceries that felt the way she does didn’t go to work would the grocery stores be able to function?

Completely disagree. There are a lot of people who are feeling fear / break down mode that would still feel that way even if people were following CDC guidelines.

 

[Panina]

Completely disagree. There are a lot of people who are feeling fear / break down mode that would still feel that way even if people were following CDC guidelines.

As I disagree with you. You are making a huge assumption about a lot of people. Can I assume there are many people walking around making believe there is no virus and not caring if they give it to someone because if they admit it that would have to deal with reality and be fearful. Both of us will never agree with each other on this topic. In time, looking back we will know more. I still go back to empathy.

 

[Cornell]

As I disagree with you. You are making a huge assumption about a lot of people. Can I assume there are many people walking around making believe there is no virus and not caring if they give it to someone because if they admit it that would have to deal with reality and be fearful. Both of us will never agree with each other on this topic. In time, looking back we will know more. I still go back to empathy.

This is another assumption people make ... that those who are not in deep fear are denying their is a virus or this is a big hoax . Or lack empathy .

 

[Luanne]

This is another assumption people make ... that those who are not in deep fear are denying their is a virus or this is a big hoax . Or lack empathy .

And the other assumption people make is that people who are concerned and are following the "rules" put in place are in deep fear.

 

[Chrisky]

Maybe it is just me, but I just do not get it. Why wouldn’t people want to do every thing possible to mitigate this pandemic. IMHO it doesn’t matter if I believe this pandemic is serious or not. Unless everyone is tested and we know who has had the virus, who is a carrier, or whatever, it will not kill anyone to wear a mask, not to protect me but to protect others.
If I pass on the virus to someone, then they can pass it on to others more vulnerable than I am. IMO, as Panina has said, some people just do not have enough empathy for others in their community, city or state, or in my case in my province. It really shows all of us in the world how uncaring a lot of people are towards their friends, and/or family. They are only concerned about themselves, how deplorable is that!!

 

[Conan]

How to Maintain Social Distance as the U.S. Reopens

The physician Asaf Bitton discusses the risks of socializing indoors, the problem of public bathrooms, and why doctors have changed the way they think about masks.

www.newyorker.com

 

[Panina]

For all you nay sayers thinking wearing a mask and social distancing is not necessary I deep down hope you are right and I am wrong.

My bottom line, for those who understand the risk but choose not to do the cdc guidelines, I do not feel anyone should have to stay locked in their home because they are higher risk if me and others wearing a mask and social distancing in stores and crowed area will possibly reduce their risk. Those who are vulnerable are at the highest risk staying home, not moving, deteriorating because of being locked in. That is empathy to me the way I see it, the ability to share the feelings of others And trying to help them.

I will share a personal story. Today I spoke with mom. She is 86 and lives in NYC. I have been telling her to go out a few times a week to walk so she won’t lose the ability. The few weeks she didn’t caused her extreme pain and once she did start her stamina is not what it was before. Walking is essential for her.

She has been walking, but today she told me many people are still not practicing the guidelines and she knows she is high risk and thinks staying home is better. I asked her if that is what she wants? She said no but I really don’t have good choices, Get Paralyzed or risk getting the virus at my age. What as a daughter do I say?