Starwood changed 5* Qualification without notice

[Troopers]

..At this point, I am not going to rush to buy anything from Starwood. I have lost faith. My notes to mgmt there have come back with a 'tough luck' tone to them, including messages to the effect that I am less important then those who have purchased new, basically discounting my history as a Platinum guest for 12 or so years running.

I hope you haven't lost faith in the hotel side of Starwood. The hotels and timeshares are really two different companies with a common owner.

 

[tomandrobin]

I hope you haven't lost faith in the hotel side of Starwood. The hotels and timeshares are really two different companies with a common owner.

This is very true. The SPG platinum is a reward for buying enough timeshares to become 5* elite. When you call SPG, you are dealing with an entirely different company, different set of rules, differrent kind of attitudes. The SPG wants to reward its best and most loyal customers. The SVO side, you get more of the "Thank you for your purchase.....next!" kind of treatment.

Not all of the SVO side is like that, but enough of it exists. I will say that in our experience as a Starwood owner, we have dealt with a lot of terrific SVO employees/managers/sales who have treated us very, very well.

 

[Troopers]

The only, and I mean only conclusion, I can come up with based on their actions, is that they really don't care, even a little, about their existing customers.

I'm not so sure about this. My guess is that Starwood perfomed in a manner that they believed to be the most appropriate for all their customers. I doubt Starwood became a multi-million company on smoke and mirrors. Remember, the 30 or 40 "regulars" here on TUG are very educated and informed about Starwood but we only represent less than 0.10% of the customer base. 99.9% of the ex customers are probably unaffected by this change and it may be in their best interest to NOT announce this change.

I agree the lack of advance notice and how it was rolled out was very poor but that doesn't mean they do not care about their ex customers.

 

[SDKath]

I agree the lack of advance notice and how it was rolled out was very poor but that doesn't mean they do not care about their ex customers.

Sure it does. I need 1 example of how this shows that they care about the 99.9% of the owners who are not on TUG.

Actually, 1 would love to see 1 single example of something Starwood has done in the last 2-3 years that has actually benefited their multi-week owners. I challenge you to come up with just 1 good decision or policy change that has been to our benefit, not theirs...

Katherine

 

[tomandrobin]

Sure it does. I need 1 example of how this shows that they care about the 99.9% of the owners who are not on TUG.

Actually, 1 would love to see 1 single example of something Starwood has done in the last 2-3 years that has actually benefited their multi-week owners. I challenge you to come up with just 1 good decision or policy change that has been to our benefit, not theirs...

Katherine

Lowering the retro/requalifications for resale weeks.

But, I think that is what lead to this recent change.

 

[sml2181]

Well, I did appreciate the extra 10% SPG points after conversion...

 

[Troopers]

Sure it does. I need 1 example of how this shows that they care about the 99.9% of the owners who are not on TUG.

Actually, 1 would love to see 1 single example of something Starwood has done in the last 2-3 years that has actually benefited their multi-week owners. I challenge you to come up with just 1 good decision or policy change that has been to our benefit, not theirs...

Katherine

I’m relatively new to Starwood but I do believe the elite program was introduced about 3 years ago benefiting multi-week owners.

Unfortunately, the economy has been in the toilet and spiraling out of control and many major companies are reducing benefits (or increasing requirements for the same benefits). I’m not sitting in their board room so I don’t know all the particulars. Perhaps Starwood needed to do this just to keep the “doors open”. Or perhaps they are following suit with the other TS programs because they have realized this benefit did not equate to measurable increase sales. Also keep in mind that their primary obligation is to their shareholders.

Again, I’m not trying to justify Starwood’s poor execution nor discount anyone’s opinion here. People sometimes start to believe in their own BS.

 

[tlpnet]

I agree with most everything that has been said here. I only recently got to 5* (much thanks to Katherine). I would have been livid had I been in the middle of my process, and WITHOUT NOTICE the rules changed.

Unfortunately over time rules do change for various reasons and with the economy tightening all over, this change isn't a great shocker. One thing that no one has really pointed out here is that SVO is a mere baby in the TS business. They are clearly learning as they go, and many of us are experiencing their growing pains and many of us are enjoying fantastic vacations with the two groups not necessarily being mutually exclusive. Some of their rules do require "work" and I for one do consider the work a hobby. Changes should not be surprising during their infancy. Recently changes have been made to SVO's upper management. I personally don't know what is going on in the company, but I suspect it's not very pretty. Usually upper management changes occur in a company when things aren't going so well. This could be sales or it could be company direction and goals. I think we should be expecting more changes - hopefully some good, probably some bad.

The overwhelming agreement in this thread and in the Starwood Management thread is their complete lack communication and the lack of providing a grace period for this rule change is really unforgivable.

I'm relatively new to Starwood TS, and to this board. I admire and respect those who have been "fighting the good fight" for years as long as I know that most of them are enjoying good (hopefully great) vacations as a result of their work/hobby.

We all know that Starwood reads this forum. I, for one, don't think that they all sit back and snicker and say "look at all these people that we've p**sed off". I hope that they actually try to understand the frustration some feel, and as they try to shape their young company that they try to do some positive for their owners, and realize that happy owners will purchase again and will refer other buyers (since they ARE in the business of selling TS's).

Possibly in the long-run, changing the requirements for 5* was the right decision for the company. It clearly was poorly executed, and clearly many of us have let Starwood know that. This is the point in my post that many of you will laugh at me, but keep in mind that I'm in Maui having a great Starwood experience.

Starwood - take a minute, and think about your decision - would it really hurt you to make a slight change in your decision. You would gain a good amount of goodwill if you would simply allow owners until the end of the year to get to 5* with 559,000 SO's. It would show that you care about your owners, and if you really think about it, what would the cost be - a 10% bonus on SP conversions (a quantifiable cost which might get one night in a $59/nt room), and a few upgrades in your hotels to rooms that would be vacant anyway (since upgrades are on an as available basis). My guess is that there are probably less than 20 or so people that would get to 5* by the end of the year (and keep in mind that they have to buy from you to get there!)

Give it some thought - you wouldn't lose respect in slightly changing a decision that you most likely did not make easily, you would gain respect by showing that you do care about your owners. Also, you should really do a little research on communication with your owners (without whom you would not have a company). I'm available for consultation as long as you let me stay in Maui.

-tim

 

[pointsjunkie]

i share your thoughts.you said it very well and i hope they are going to read this and bring it to the people who came make a change.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

This is the best response I have seen here...

Hi,

Your note seems to hit things squarely on the head. You are right about Starwood needing a good mind to work with. They clearly are getting a very bad name out there, and have an outstanding hotel program. I think the Hotel people should know what is going on.

rchen makes some excellent points and they go to the heart of the problem, SVN just isn't a very well thought out of an product or organization. It's a bunch of different properties and inconsistent rules cobbled together under a well regarded hotel brand that they were lucky to have access to. That being said, I still want to say that the change itself isn't what is causing the uproar but the absolutely tragic lack of meaningful communication coming out of Orlando is the root issue. If SVN were smart, they would hire one of our more active Tuggers as a consultant to vet their programs and potential changes thoroughly so they can at last be thoughtful in how they conduct their business. The only, and I mean only conclusion, I can come up with based on their actions, is that they really don't care, even a little, about their existing customers.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

I have lost trust, not faith..

Funny part of this is that they really don't lose anything in terms of actual benefits if they had extended my time limit to get 5* done. I am already Plat through to Feb 2010.

I am going to try to call a senior person there and see where I get..

I hope you haven't lost faith in the hotel side of Starwood. The hotels and timeshares are really two different companies with a common owner.

 

[tlpnet]

oh... and Starwood... one more thing

and this one's personal. If you completely ignore my advice (and I assume you will... I said I was in Maui, but I'm not smoking anything)... There is one thing that you must do, and if you don't, it will be a very bad business decision, and you should make sure that the name placard on your door is firmly attached... Katherine aka SDKath has referred hundreds of thousands if not a millon dollars of DEVELOPER sales your way this year alone. I personally bought, and I know that I've referred others who have bought to get to elite status because of Katherine's advice. She has most definitely been your biggest advocate on this board this year, and it's shameful that you haven't grandfathered her into 5* elite ownership already. It's only through a technicality that she isn't - she owns the required units. You need to act quickly because I feel Disney's sales increasing as yours fall each minute that Katherine remains 4*.

-tim

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Tlpnet...

It is great for you to stick up for SDKath. My question is why should you have to do that? Shameful doesn't begin to describe it really....

and this one's personal. If you completely ignore my advice (and I assume you will... I said I was in Maui, but I'm not smoking anything)... There is one thing that you must do, and if you don't, it will be a very bad business decision, and you should make sure that the name placard on your door is firmly attached... Katherine aka SDKath has referred hundreds of thousands if not a millon dollars of DEVELOPER sales your way this year alone. I personally bought, and I know that I've referred others who have bought to get to elite status because of Katherine's advice. She has most definitely been your biggest advocate on this board this year, and it's shameful that you haven't grandfathered her into 5* elite ownership already. It's only through a technicality that she isn't - she owns the required units. You need to act quickly because I feel Disney's sales increasing as yours fall each minute that Katherine remains 4*.

-tim

 

[tlpnet]

It is great for you to stick up for SDKath. My question is why should you have to do that? Shameful doesn't begin to describe it really....

It's simple really - I too believe in Karma, but I live in a world where not everyone does. Instead money talks, and I want to make sure that Starwood recognizes the monetary contribution that Katherine has made to their sales in a year with a bad economy. It would be great to think that they would reward her because she's a nice person and helps out people here on TUG, but we all know better than that.

I hope I did not offend you or anyone here by singleing Katherine out.

-tim

 

[oneohana]

With the increase in required *options to get 5*, what would happen if you were the 2001th 5* and didn't get the pfl? SVN was originally allowed only 2000 of these. Were they issued more? Who knows how many were issued so far. Their numbers have been all over the map.

Sorry Kath on what happened to you. It reminds me of what happened to Maria.

 

[Troopers]

If I would have been close to 5* now, I most certainly would have sent a letter to Mr. Matthew E. Avril, president of Starwood Vacation Ownership to let him know that this lack of communication indeed doesn't show any integrity at all. (Re-new qualifications to become 5*.)

As of last Monday, Sergio Rivera is running SVO.

 

[sml2181]

Yes, I am sorry - I was aware of that. I was writing this in the middle of the night - I couldn't sleep although I was very tired - I knew there was something not right but couldn't figure out what it was.

 

[SDKath]

Thanks guys for the kind comments. I am blushing (just can't find the right smily for it -- maybe this one? )

Glad I could pass on the TS addiction! It makes it all so much more fun. I hope to continue to enable many others in the times to come.

Oh, and did you see this 81,000 SO auction on ebay that just closed? I hope a TUGger got that deal (and has an iron stomach since that is a Wanted Weeks seller )

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300261777700

Katherine

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

No not at all Tim...

I was only mentioning because I feel they should have treated her right to start with. They shouldn't have to have anyone tell them to do what is right.. which is what I was trying to say. While I am stuck in the same boat, I was not as close to Kath at getting it done, but, was within a couple of months I would say.

Glad to have you on our side here!

It's simple really - I too believe in Karma, but I live in a world where not everyone does. Instead money talks, and I want to make sure that Starwood recognizes the monetary contribution that Katherine has made to their sales in a year with a bad economy. It would be great to think that they would reward her because she's a nice person and helps out people here on TUG, but we all know better than that.

I hope I did not offend you or anyone here by singleing Katherine out.

-tim

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Phone number for Sergio?

Does anyone have a number.. or should I just try my luck with SVO head office?

As of last Monday, Sergio Rivera is running SVO.

 

[myip]

Sorry Kath on what happened to you. It reminds me of what happened to Maria.

Kath, What did happen to you? Why are you having problem technically --> did you own the required Staroptions?

I got screwed last year because the salesperson promises everything. I have evidence in email but they didn't care and just reply it is NOT in the contract.

 

[tlpnet]

Kath, What did happen to you? Why are you having problem technically --> did you own the required Staroptions?

See post #17 above.

 

[LisaRex]

I got screwed last year because the salesperson promises everything. I have evidence in email but they didn't care and just reply it is NOT in the contract.

They may not care, but the attorney general would care. False and misleading promises is what led to the timeshare industry getting a sordid reputation in the first place. Many states have passed consumer protection laws to fight back. (e.g. 7 day recission periods.) Please keep those emails and draft a letter of complaint to the AG of the state where you bought the timeshare, providing a hard copy of the emails as proof that they lied.

I might also send a copy to the CEO of Starwood hotels, not SVO, since SVO has given you the cold shoulder.

Word-of-mouth lying is difficult to prove. Emails are accepted as empirical evidence.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Please post your experience in the other thread entitled SVO Management..

We are compiling a running list of experiences good and bad there. Please post what happened to you there...

Kath, What did happen to you? Why are you having problem technically --> did you own the required Staroptions?

I got screwed last year because the salesperson promises everything. I have evidence in email but they didn't care and just reply it is NOT in the contract.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Despite promises last week to have a discussion with a senior manager... no call...

I'm here to confirm that SVO management do not care about what you all think here...

We are compiling a running list of experiences good and bad there. Please post what happened to you there...