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Starwood changed 5* Qualification without notice

StarwoodCanadafan

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False Advertising.. and poor customer relations..

Hi Cathy,

The folks here who don't seem to be upset about this likely are already 5*, and don't care.. in fact, it isnt in their best interest to have others join, because it dilutes the upgrades I guess.

The issue remains the no notice and as Kath points out, the false advertising after the fact.

Anyone here know a lawyer? We should contact someone to ask the question. At very worst, SVO acted in very poor faith.

For SVO sales folks who I know are reading this, this isn't personal. We know the decision for this has come down from someone on high. Perhaps it was 'sold' to you as a way for you to get more sales out of those who are not in 5* but close.. and perhaps you have also been told these are the people who have money and are willing to spend it despite the toilet Wall street has put us all in. Either way, it stinks.. and I think the message needs to go up to your management that we don't think it is right or fair.

Perhaps we should all look at other programs instead. For the record, I have investigated lifetime Plat in Marriott, which you may be surprised to know is available, and at much less then what Starwood now offers. Hyatt seems to interest a purchaser here.

Perhaps it is time to switch over. SVO obviously doesn't give a crap about any of you here. Those who are existing Plat 5*, what they have done here should be a really worry to you as well. While it doesn't affect you this time, the fact that they would do it this way should send shivers up your collective spines. If you are not willing to support a revolt on this, when they come down on you next time in a year or so, .. well, you get the picture.

Making a change without any notification and displaying the incorrect, old info on their only website is actually considered FALSE ADVERTISING. It can be misconstrued as melicious sales tactic. (You know, to lead people into thinking they will be 5* and have them sign the contarct only to find out that they "forgot" to mention that the rules changed a day or two ago and "forgot" conveniently to update their website).

There are lots of laws against that to protect consumers....

K
 

oneohana

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Hi Katherine,

I'm saying that this is right. It is just the way that *wood treats their current owners. I have many screen shots also if I have to battle *wood.

I was in a hurry to get to 5* because all the changes that were occuring last year in the requal process. There was talk back then of changes in the 5* elite program. I'm just waiting for the next teir above 5* to take place :bawl: .
 

StarwoodCanadafan

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Your eggs may not be burnt, but they sure smell bad..

If they make this type of change unilaterally, you should support the cause here. If you don't, you can't expect others to come back and support you when it happens again a year from now, and it does affect you..

Starwood can and will make any changes they want. I know it is not fair, but that's just the way they run their business.

All my eggs are in the Starwood basket. I'm just making the best omlettes I can. Hopefully they won't get burnt.
 

StarwoodCanadafan

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Who is the top 'guy' at SVO?

Does anyone know?

I am going to call him. Kath? Want to do a conference call with me?



Hi Katherine,

I'm saying that this is right. It is just the way that *wood treats their current owners. I have many screen shots also if I have to battle *wood.

I was in a hurry to get to 5* because all the changes that were occuring last year in the requal process. There was talk back then of changes in the 5* elite program. I'm just waiting for the next teir above 5* to take place :bawl: .
 

oneohana

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StarwoodCanadaFan,

I do support the cause. And so do all the other 5* elites. This one is just not my battle. I would've been furious too if this happened to me. My salesperson knew that I was trying to get to 5* at the time.

I'm just saying that in my past experiences, *wood has done what they want. That is why I was in a hurry to get to 5*. I just didn't trust them changing the rules. I was so close to 5* it didn't make sense not to get there. I was in constant contact with my corperate salesperson to make sure I was getting everything that was agreed upon.

As far as salespeople are concerned, do you know if they had any warning? I have received notices regarding changes in their policies before they did. As you know, *wood is terrible in communications.

I'm not concerned about competing with other 5* elite members or any other members for that matter. I'm content at just being on vacation.
 

pointsjunkie

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i agree with all of you , and i too would be livid.

i asked a question a few threads ago and no one answered it.

how many of you if you had 2 month notice would have spent the money to become 5*?

with the finances in the US right now would you really be spending thousands of dollars on timeshare just to get to 5*?

i don't think it would be more than 1 or 2 of you, if any.
 

myip

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That is total BS. No offense but you really just CAN'T do that!

Katherine
SVN did and you will talking to a wall. I filed BBB complaints previously and they didn't care. They came back with basically "Tough" they have the right to change and it is not in the contract... Unless, it states in the contract, it is lost cause. Email evidence is not acceptable. YOu will need to get a lawyer.
 

rocky

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The whole SVN exchanging network, starpoint values, staroption amounts, the elite program parameters can be changed at any time for any reason, including being cancelled all together. Read the paperwork...... there was no promise made and no false advertising occured.

The whole 5*, 4*, 3* elite program thing always was, and is a total sham and it's tough medicine to take for owners who bought based on promises of things that frankly were never designed to be durable lasting value-added programs.

Starwood does this time and time again. The units that get smaller and smaller, the full sized ovens that become microwaves, the OF units that are really barely OV, the cheap finishes noted throughout the WPORV development, oh... and my favorite one, the starpoint devaluation. Read over the last 5 years of posts, and notice the regular posters dramatic change in tone towards the negative.

Fooled me once, shame on you, fooled me twice, shame on me. The writing on the wall has been there a while for these programs. Lesson learned ok! Don't waste time and money on this program going forward.
 

tomandrobin

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While ROFR's may be used in other situations and for other real property, it is most commonly used in timeshares, to the best of my knowledge. For all the properties I've almost bought, and have bought, I've never run across a ROFR other than in timeshare. Perhaps its use in California is more restrictive than other States (I don't know - but I've not seen it in Florida either, on the properties I almost bought in the last 10 years).

It would be nice to see examples that ROFR is a common event included in many real estate transactions. Do you have any websites of condos or HOA's which show their ROFR policy? (Anyone else run into this issue?) If so, please share them here. If not, then please qualify your remarks. I think it's natural for us to be cautious of any comments on a public forum without personal knowledge of the individual behind the statement or their agenda.

FWIW, I'm very curious to see what other HOAs do in this area. I'd like to know how an HOA is formed that has the resources to buy real estate from its members in order to sell it for a profit (presumably). This really sounds more like a builder / developer policy, and is somewhat contrary to what the HOA exists to do.

We own property in a gated community in South Carolina, near Myrtle Beach, that has an active ROFR in effect. The owner/developer is active in using his ROFR of all of the undeveloped lots.
 

Ken555

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We own property in a gated community in South Carolina, near Myrtle Beach, that has an active ROFR in effect. The owner/developer is active in using his ROFR of all of the undeveloped lots.

Thank you T&R. That's exactly the type of ROFR we're all familiar with - that the developer is doing it. The HOA is *NOT*.
 

StarwoodCanadafan

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Thanks for the response oneohana..

.. and for the info.

At this point, I am not going to rush to buy anything from Starwood. I have lost faith. My notes to mgmt there have come back with a 'tough luck' tone to them, including messages to the effect that I am less important then those who have purchased new, basically discounting my history as a Platinum guest for 12 or so years running.

It is good to know before you get into the marriage that your bride is going to cheat on you. At least I found out before, not after. I have told them specifically that there is a groundswell of discontent, and this type of thing will give them a black eye in the long run, and hurt their sales. I really don't think they care though. No one up the chain has even said they would try to get an exception for me. Just they can't approve.

Remarkable. Incredible. These are words which describe what they have done here.:clap:

StarwoodCanadaFan,

I do support the cause. And so do all the other 5* elites. This one is just not my battle. I would've been furious too if this happened to me. My salesperson knew that I was trying to get to 5* at the time.

I'm just saying that in my past experiences, *wood has done what they want. That is why I was in a hurry to get to 5*. I just didn't trust them changing the rules. I was so close to 5* it didn't make sense not to get there. I was in constant contact with my corperate salesperson to make sure I was getting everything that was agreed upon.

As far as salespeople are concerned, do you know if they had any warning? I have received notices regarding changes in their policies before they did. As you know, *wood is terrible in communications.

I'm not concerned about competing with other 5* elite members or any other members for that matter. I'm content at just being on vacation.
 

StarwoodCanadafan

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I would have...

.. for sure.

i agree with all of you , and i too would be livid.

i asked a question a few threads ago and no one answered it.

how many of you if you had 2 month notice would have spent the money to become 5*?

with the finances in the US right now would you really be spending thousands of dollars on timeshare just to get to 5*?

i don't think it would be more than 1 or 2 of you, if any.
 

oneohana

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The whole SVN exchanging network, starpoint values, staroption amounts, the elite program parameters can be changed at any time for any reason, including being cancelled all together. Read the paperwork...... there was no promise made and no false advertising occured.

The whole 5*, 4*, 3* elite program thing always was, and is a total sham and it's tough medicine to take for owners who bought based on promises of things that frankly were never designed to be durable lasting value-added programs.

Starwood does this time and time again. The units that get smaller and smaller, the full sized ovens that become microwaves, the OF units that are really barely OV, the cheap finishes noted throughout the WPORV development, oh... and my favorite one, the starpoint devaluation. Read over the last 5 years of posts, and notice the regular posters dramatic change in tone towards the negative.

Fooled me once, shame on you, fooled me twice, shame on me. The writing on the wall has been there a while for these programs. Lesson learned ok! Don't waste time and money on this program going forward.

StarwoodCanadaFan,

Rocky is 100% correct.

If you look at previous posts, you can see what battles we have fought and lost(all).

Sorry that they fooled you. But don't feel alone. They have gotten most of us here.
 

SDKath

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StarwoodCanadafan,

I will keep you posted on the progress my complaint makes. I am told it is in their "legal" department as we speak. I am not going to drop this, however, and have already contacted a lawyer. It might be futile but they deserve to know that illegal sales tactics are just that -- illegal. At the least, they should have better communication within the organization. I mean COME ON, their website is outdated and wrong for a WEEK after the largest change in Platinum history is made??????? Not until a fellow TUGger points out the error does someone change the site??? That's not a way to run a multi-million dollar company. :doh:

Katherine
 

StarwoodCanadafan

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Thanks SDKath

I have wondered though about chasing my tail here on this. Rather then that, I think we should honestly, and without bias or stating any untruths, let people know what has happened here. I have no doubt that language in their program allow them to do this. However, I have told them clearly that I feel that what they have done lacks integrity. Regardless of your personal outcome, I feel strongly in not supporting them should they not reverse it, which is what I have urged them to do.

I have also spoken to a couple of senior resale agents in the community. What they just told me suprised me ... a lot. Their perspective is that SVO has a very bad reputation in the industry, just for this very reason. They are known as a company who is mismanaged at the top end, and don't care about their existing clients. As pointed out on this thread, they make changes to the program continuously, and don't really care about what you think. Contrast that to Hilton, who have a terrific reputation in their VO. They have cleaned up the mess on the resale market, established a RFR for all their units, so you don't see things like Vistana on the market selling for $100. They seem to be a well managed company. I personally own 2 weeks, but had not considered persuing Diamond status lifetime there because of my history with Starwood. It boggles my mind how I have been treated personally here. The best I can do is to communicate my dissatisfaction to senior SVO people, and the hotel people. I am not without relationships on the hotel side, and beyond saying SVO has done me wrong, and keeping this info current here, as indicated, they really don't care.

StarwoodCanadafan,

I will keep you posted on the progress my complaint makes. I am told it is in their "legal" department as we speak. I am not going to drop this, however, and have already contacted a lawyer. It might be futile but they deserve to know that illegal sales tactics are just that -- illegal. At the least, they should have better communication within the organization. I mean COME ON, their website is outdated and wrong for a WEEK after the largest change in Platinum history is made??????? Not until a fellow TUGger points out the error does someone change the site??? That's not a way to run a multi-million dollar company. :doh:

Katherine
 

StarwoodCanadafan

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Oneohana..

Thanks for letting me know. Naive I am. Taken for a fool I was. I nearly purchased 7 Florida weeks to get to Plat in May. That would have been a complete fatal mistake. That was before someone pointed out to me that what I was spending $100K plus for could be purchased through the open market for $700... if I worked at it. At worst, multiples of this. I had always understood that resales of reputable time share companies held their resale value... at about 60% or at least 50% of the new price. That doesn't apply to a number of Starwood Florida units it seems.

I really quite like the sales lady I have been working with at SVO. (Yes, I know you are reading this:wave: ). I really don't think a lot of this is in her control though.

StarwoodCanadaFan,

Rocky is 100% correct.

If you look at previous posts, you can see what battles we have fought and lost(all).

Sorry that they fooled you. But don't feel alone. They have gotten most of us here.
 

StarwoodCanadafan

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Sorry SDKath.. I thought you had already got to 5*?

I gather because some of the units you were working through had not closed?

They didn't grandfather you right away? !!!

Hmm...

StarwoodCanadafan,

I will keep you posted on the progress my complaint makes. I am told it is in their "legal" department as we speak. I am not going to drop this, however, and have already contacted a lawyer. It might be futile but they deserve to know that illegal sales tactics are just that -- illegal. At the least, they should have better communication within the organization. I mean COME ON, their website is outdated and wrong for a WEEK after the largest change in Platinum history is made??????? Not until a fellow TUGger points out the error does someone change the site??? That's not a way to run a multi-million dollar company. :doh:

Katherine
 

sml2181

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I have wondered though about chasing my tail here on this. Rather then that, I think we should honestly, and without bias or stating any untruths, let people know what has happened here. I have no doubt that language in their program allow them to do this. However, I have told them clearly that I feel that what they have done lacks integrity. Regardless of your personal outcome, I feel strongly in not supporting them should they not reverse it, which is what I have urged them to do.

I have also spoken to a couple of senior resale agents in the community. What they just told me suprised me ... a lot. Their perspective is that SVO has a very bad reputation in the industry, just for this very reason. They are known as a company who is mismanaged at the top end, and don't care about their existing clients. As pointed out on this thread, they make changes to the program continuously, and don't really care about what you think. Contrast that to Hilton, who have a terrific reputation in their VO. They have cleaned up the mess on the resale market, established a RFR for all their units, so you don't see things like Vistana on the market selling for $100. They seem to be a well managed company. I personally own 2 weeks, but had not considered persuing Diamond status lifetime there because of my history with Starwood. It boggles my mind how I have been treated personally here. The best I can do is to communicate my dissatisfaction to senior SVO people, and the hotel people. I am not without relationships on the hotel side, and beyond saying SVO has done me wrong, and keeping this info current here, as indicated, they really don't care.

I am both Starwood 5* and Hilton Premier Elite which comes with Diamond HH for life. Before I purchased, Starwood was sort of on top of our list because we stay in their hotels at many specific locations. However at some other places we prefer Hilton/Conrad/Waldorf hotels (we bought into the hotel programs because of the hotels mainly - we always paid for the rooms prior to timeshares so to us this is a great deal.)

We still like the idea that we own "something" rather than just throwing money down the drain. I still enjoy PFL (we had been Platinum and Diamond for years before we purchased) and we do still enjoy Starwood properties but without a doubt, Hilton is now on top of our list. We never expected that to happen!

Never had any problems with their system - but you have to know how to work it. And although they have less timeshare resorts, the easyness and flexibility of the system is really great as well as their customer service. At least the Elite service knows what to do and they are very knowledgable and flexible - at least that has been my experience. Now - since I bought for hotel points mainly to use at hotels my view may be VERY different than that of most others here. But I do think that Hilton is a somewhat underestimated program.

I have been working for a week now to get 2 of my 08 Lagunamar weeks converted to SPG points. We were supposed to visit but plans changed. Points from 1 week are in my account now, but the points from the 2nd week are ....? Nobody knows where they went. Nobody seems to know what to do.
With Hilton, I simply do this conversion online and the HH points appear in the right account right away.

This year, I have had to speak to Platinum Concierge for quite some time to get a few nights on points - according to them, the hotel I wanted had blackout dates. There was a festivity going on in that city but the Starwood property did still show inventory online. Just could not do it on points and since the best available rate was 600 Euro, I did take the time to argue and in the end I got it - but I was told it was an exception and it did take a whole morning to complete the reservation. For another stay when the same problem occured I decided I didn't want to spend all that time so I called HHonors - the Hilton hotel in that city was actually sold out but as a Diamond I could still reserve 2 rooms, on points. No problem at all and took less than a minute. Now THAT's a true "without blackout dates" in my book.

I won't even start about the depositing of my resale event week and the number of SPG points which was deducted from my account for a hotel stay in 2 suites-which I never requested - I simply wanted 2 rooms on cash and points. 2 Suites of 24K points, for a stay of 14 nights. Points are still not back in my account and the rooms I did request for c/p are not available anymore. Booked them for cash now with owners discount. What should have been a simple online reservation in the first place (could not do it online but could see the c/p availability so I called), turned out to be an ongoing process of over a week.

Lately I have found myself talking to both SVO/SPG for hours per week, sometimes 2 hours per day - to get things the way I wanted, or I should say to get things the way they should be (at least I should be entitled to receive the SPG points for my Lagunamar week.) And although all people I spoke to are very nice and they are all really trying to be very helpful, they don't know what to do as soon as it gets a little more complicated (I cannot even blame them as there are so many rules and inconsistencies) and I feel I need another 24 hours a day when handling Starwood.
That's really not for me.

So, although I do not regret the Starwood purchases, I doubt I would feel the need to get more points with them. I recently purchased another resale week and planned to have it requalified with a Riverfront week, but now I seriously doubt we will do the requalification.

If I would have been close to 5* now, I most certainly would have sent a letter to Mr. Matthew E. Avril, president of Starwood Vacation Ownership to let him know that this lack of communication indeed doesn't show any integrity at all. (Re-new qualifications to become 5*.) However, I would not expect anything to happen at all, but I would have sent that letter to get it off my chest anyway.
I would still probably plunk down the money to actually get it, but only because I use the hotels MUCH more than the timeshare resorts and I do still appreciate the platinum benefits. And only if I would be very close to the 5*. If I was 3* now or not so close to 5*, I don't think I would purchase more points but I would purchase resale weeks I could use and maybe even simply purchase resale weeks which I could rent out easily - to still be able to stay in the hotels and achieve Platinum status.

We feel we simply "prepaid" hotel stays, which gives us the idea that we are not just throwing away money for these stays for which we would otherwise pay in cash. And that's why we bought in the first place - so we're still happy. And, we also only purchased weeks we would actually use if everything else would fall apart, which gives us a good feeling too.

If it is only that platinum card you want - there are cheaper ways to get it, if you stay in the hotels. (But of course the same is true for Diamond HH.)


If we were to buy more points, Hilton now would be our first choice.
(As far as I know, you can still purchase HGVC Flamingo without rofr - you would have to look at the HGVC board for the information.)
 

StarwoodCanadafan

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What a great post, and info!

Hi,

I own 2 Hilton 7,000 pt weeks in addition to my Starwood Maui week (resale). I have to agree 100% that the Hilton program is much much easier to use. I love the flexibility it gives you. I was down the road to looking into Diamond with them, but really wanted to stick with Starwood due to my long long term Plat status with them.. and really, I had made a strong investment with them, and thought we had a relationship because of this. I could not be more wrong it seems.

The SVO people have brushed me aside like my 12+ years mean nothing to them. Bitter? I am getting there, that's for sure. Not there yet... but it surprises the heck out of me that they haven't even bothered to try to make this right.

One question.. does the Diamond at Hilton get you upgraded when you check in? How often? Is it a worthwhile program to join? I see ownership gives you just 10 years Diamond now.. were you aware of that?

I am both Starwood 5* and Hilton Premier Elite which comes with Diamond HH for life. Before I purchased, Starwood was sort of on top of our list because we stay in their hotels at many specific locations. However at some other places we prefer Hilton/Conrad/Waldorf hotels (we bought into the hotel programs because of the hotels mainly - we always paid for the rooms prior to timeshares so to us this is a great deal.)

We still like the idea that we own "something" rather than just throwing money down the drain. I still enjoy PFL (we had been Platinum and Diamond for years before we purchased) and we do still enjoy Starwood properties but without a doubt, Hilton is now on top of our list. We never expected that to happen!

Never had any problems with their system - but you have to know how to work it. And although they have less timeshare resorts, the easyness and flexibility of the system is really great as well as their customer service. At least the Elite service knows what to do and they are very knowledgable and flexible - at least that has been my experience. Now - since I bought for hotel points mainly to use at hotels my view may be VERY different than that of most others here. But I do think that Hilton is a somewhat underestimated program.

I have been working for a week now to get 2 of my 08 Lagunamar weeks converted to SPG points. We were supposed to visit but plans changed. Points from 1 week are in my account now, but the points from the 2nd week are ....? Nobody knows where they went. Nobody seems to know what to do.
With Hilton, I simply do this conversion online and the HH points appear in the right account right away.

This year, I have had to speak to Platinum Concierge for quite some time to get a few nights on points - according to them, the hotel I wanted had blackout dates. There was a festivity going on in that city but the Starwood property did still show inventory online. Just could not do it on points and since the best available rate was 600 Euro, I did take the time to argue and in the end I got it - but I was told it was an exception and it did take a whole morning to complete the reservation. For another stay when the same problem occured I decided I didn't want to spend all that time so I called HHonors - the Hilton hotel in that city was actually sold out but as a Diamond I could still reserve 2 rooms, on points. No problem at all and took less than a minute. Now THAT's a true "without blackout dates" in my book.

I won't even start about the depositing of my resale event week and the number of SPG points which was deducted from my account for a hotel stay in 2 suites-which I never requested - I simply wanted 2 rooms on cash and points. 2 Suites of 24K points, for a stay of 14 nights. Points are still not back in my account and the rooms I did request for c/p are not available anymore. Booked them for cash now with owners discount. What should have been a simple online reservation in the first place (could not do it online but could see the c/p availability so I called), turned out to be an ongoing process of over a week.

Lately I have found myself talking to both SVO/SPG for hours per week, sometimes 2 hours per day - to get things the way I wanted, or I should say to get things the way they should be (at least I should be entitled to receive the SPG points for my Lagunamar week.) And although all people I spoke to are very nice and they are all really trying to be very helpful, they don't know what to do as soon as it gets a little more complicated (I cannot even blame them as there are so many rules and inconsistencies) and I feel I need another 24 hours a day when handling Starwood.
That's really not for me.

So, although I do not regret the Starwood purchases, I doubt I would feel the need to get more points with them. I recently purchased another resale week and planned to have it requalified with a Riverfront week, but now I seriously doubt we will do the requalification.

If I would have been close to 5* now, I most certainly would have sent a letter to Mr. Matthew E. Avril, president of Starwood Vacation Ownership to let him know that this lack of communication indeed doesn't show any integrity at all. (Re-new qualifications to become 5*.) However, I would not expect anything to happen at all, but I would have sent that letter to get it off my chest anyway.
I would still probably plunk down the money to actually get it, but only because I use the hotels MUCH more than the timeshare resorts and I do still appreciate the platinum benefits. And only if I would be very close to the 5*. If I was 3* now or not so close to 5*, I don't think I would purchase more points but I would purchase resale weeks I could use and maybe even simply purchase resale weeks which I could rent out easily - to still be able to stay in the hotels and achieve Platinum status.

We feel we simply "prepaid" hotel stays, which gives us the idea that we are not just throwing away money for these stays for which we would otherwise pay in cash. And that's why we bought in the first place - so we're still happy. And, we also only purchased weeks we would actually use if everything else would fall apart, which gives us a good feeling too.

If it is only that platinum card you want - there are cheaper ways to get it, if you stay in the hotels. (But of course the same is true for Diamond HH.)


If we were to buy more points, Hilton now would be our first choice.
(As far as I know, you can still purchase HGVC Flamingo without rofr - you would have to look at the HGVC board for the information.)
 

sml2181

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They changed the Diamond for 10 years to Diamond for life. I received a letter in which this was stated, after they had changed the HGVC/HH conversion.

Regarding upgrades, that is difficult to answer as it really depends on where when and how long.

What they always do is give you lounge access or an executive room with lounge access or breakfast coupons. Never have to ask for that - it's just being done.

I have had upgrades to suites in France, Italy, Malta, Whistler, Amsterdam, NYC, LA, and many other hotels in Europe and Asia and Africa. I also got these upgrades with Starwood though. The difference is that Starwood has it in their Platinum description and Hilton does not. But with Starwood, all platinums are "fighting" because they all want to have that suite and I feel it is a little different with Hilton.
In Asia, there are not as many Platinum/Diamond members and the hotels we visit there have always been very generous - both Starwood and Hilton. In the US, where we actually don't use our points that much, we do get upgrades there as well but somehow we don't really expect it there. In Europe, I get the feeling we are upgraded as soon as we are not "first timers" to the hotel anymore.

We also almost always reserve 2 or 3 rooms and that seems to help with upgrades too. We never ask for upgrades - guess I am too shy..:D

But to us, the ability to always be able to get a room, is more important than the upgrades. My husband has to travel to Munich very often and sometimes he has to be there last minute while their Beerfest is going on - and all rooms in the city are sold out. Hilton is closest to where he has to be so he always gets a room there - without upgrades because the hotel is really sold out then. However, instead he always gets a nice bottle of something and a box of chocolates for me (even when I am not there) - so still not bad. And of course still lounge access or breakfast. Same story for the Conrad Brussels, where we are always upgraded to one of the nicest suites - unless the hotel is really sold out and then we are happy to receive bubbles and breakfast again. (Breakfast here cost 50 Euro per person and we receive it for the 6 of us so we are happy with that.)

So - in the end I think I got upgrades at Hiltons just as much as with Starwood. Trick is to reserve rooms at the hotel with the most suites / or simply reserve the most expensive hotel you can find. Has worked well for us.
 
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Troopers

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Several thoughts here:

1. I'm curious if it's us Tuggers that led to the raising of qualifications (not the poor execution of it). Tuggers have found easier (cheaper) ways or loopholes to get to 5* than what was orginally anticipated by Starwood. See no 2.

2. I think Starwood got snakebit. In efforts to increase sales and provide owners with a benefit, Starwood allows retro/requals. I'm not sure that the other TS programs provides a retro/requal process to allow resale purchases to be treated as a developer purchase. This benefit ended up burning them. See no 1.

3. Another interesting note is that I've always read here that elite status isn't very valuable. I've also read and concur that it's not financially prudent to pursue elite status solely on its benefits. I understand the primary benefit for 5* elite was SPG PFL which nodge is determining may not be worth ~$1k annually (for him). The benefits do not seem to cost Starwood huge dollars so why raise the requirement...to drive sales?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm NOT justifying what Starwood has or has not done. I'm just curious...there's always two sides to every story.

If I was in some of your shoes, I be pissed off too!
 

Cathyb

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rchen: good point!
 

dss

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rchen makes some excellent points and they go to the heart of the problem, SVN just isn't a very well thought out of an product or organization. It's a bunch of different properties and inconsistent rules cobbled together under a well regarded hotel brand that they were lucky to have access to. That being said, I still want to say that the change itself isn't what is causing the uproar but the absolutely tragic lack of meaningful communication coming out of Orlando is the root issue. If SVN were smart, they would hire one of our more active Tuggers as a consultant to vet their programs and potential changes thoroughly so they can at last be thoughtful in how they conduct their business. The only, and I mean only conclusion, I can come up with based on their actions, is that they really don't care, even a little, about their existing customers.
 
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