Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[PerryM]

A corny answer....

As I pointed out, this is the very nature of points systems, subject to the specific rules and any limitations such as home resort priority, etc. In effect I read this as you are inherently against a deverloper selling a points system in any way because there is ALWAYS an element of the bronze point being bought to use at the Platinum time. I realize your additional contention is this is a change midstream. I look at it as if Marriott were cutting off the MVCI and starting a new system that was unrelated, something also well within their rights.

It's one thing to start a timeshare company from scratch and make it Point based like Disney or WM. It's something entirely different to sell weeks, let owners exchange reservations in II and then hijack those same weeks to use in a new Points sales scheme.

If Marriott wants to introduce a Point based exchange system like RedWeek or Resort2resort I have no problems with that at all - I'd shout for joy.

But that's NOT what Marriott seems to be doing - it used the exchange scheme to get fuel (reservations) for their sales engine.

It's very similar to ethanol - if you convert leaves and twigs and garbage into ethanol to fuel our cars that's OK with me. But when you divert corn from human fuel to automobile fuel that's just a bad idea.

There are good fuel sources and bad fuel sources - Marriott seems to be taking our fuel (reservations) to make their new Point-based sales engine run.

The current week-based timeshare system requires Marriott to buy their own fuel and not steal it from us.

But, there still has to be enough points/inventory. Marriott can NOT just sell points without the inventory available to back it up.

Now, you're right in that they'll be selling points in Branson with the idea that you can use those points to stay anywhere/anytime with one rule. You must have the points available to accomplish the vacations you plan.

Selling timeshares has always been about selling dreams. It doesn't matter if they're selling you into a weeks program with the promise you can exchange your week for ANY week in the system or with Interval or, if they're selling you points that you can use to purchase your vacation within the system or through Interval. It's all the same and, like it or not, it's still going to be sold the same. That is the dream of the ideal vacations for life. Points/weeks makes not difference.

Points will do a couple of things.
1. Makes exchanging more transparent. You KNOW what's required rather than guessing if you have the exchange power.
2. Eliminates selling specific deeded weeks and specific seasons. You just sell points packages and people buy only what they need.

It has advantages for both buyer and seller.

Some of you guys give Marriott the benefit of the doubt - they will be a good little timeshare developer.

Me, I just assume they will stab me in the back to make a buck or two - to each his/her own.

 

[rpw]

take it for what it's worth

But Marriott just waived ROFR on my Odd year Maui VILLA for $16,100. Sounds like either they still don't have any money or they didn't want to buy back one of their new towers at what is arguably their most popular resort?

 

[PerryM]

But Marriott just waived ROFR on my Odd year Maui VILLA for $16,100. Sounds like either they still don't have any money or they didn't want to buy back one of their new towers at what is arguably their most popular resort?

Marriott probably has enough inventory of that unit and probably will just wait for falling prices after they unleash their new sales engine.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This threat is awfully long!

Would the first person with the "real" information please start a new thread, "New system details" so that others don't have to wade through and get confused by the previous "speculation in this thread?"

:whoopie:

I don't believe the new system has rolled out quite yet. Speculation is all we see here, but I am as anxious as anyone to see how this system will work, so I watch, waiting for a bit of fact.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning!!!

This just makes Perry's point!!! With the old "weeks" system if MVCI wanted to sell access to Maui Vilas they had to sell the "deed" to that week or a similar plat week with enough trading power with II to have a reasonable shot at "snagging" it. Most of this inventory is already gone.

With the points, they have to just sell enough combined points from their unsold inventory of "doggy" weeks to sell access to Maui without actually having the inventory!!!

I would like to hear from owners in other "point" systems to discover if they truly have access to prime inventory that is not their "home resort", in other words do DVC or HGVC owners need to be awake at 12:01 am at the onset of the 7 mos (or whatever) window..

 

[PerryM]

Richly deserved?

good morning!!!

This just makes Perry's point!!! With the old "weeks" system if MVCI wanted to sell access to Maui Vilas they had to sell the "deed" to that week or a similar plat week with enough trading power with II to have a reasonable shot at "snagging" it. Most of this inventory is already gone.

With the points, they have to just sell enough combined points from their unsold inventory of "doggy" weeks to sell access to Maui without actually having the inventory!!!

I would like to hear from owners in other "point" systems to discover if they truly have access to prime inventory that is not their "home resort", in other words do DVC or HGVC owners need to be awake at 12:01 am at the onset of the 7 mos (or whatever) window..

We own WM a 100% Point based system that I just love to death.

The problem with ALL Point based systems, and one that will be fun to watch Marriott address, is oversaturation of prime holiday weeks.

If you have young kids there are only 14 weeks a year you can vacation with them - the summer and maybe week51 and 52. Week 7, President's week, has parents just yanking the kids out of school to go skiing.

So that's what Point based timeshare salesreps sell - only the holidays - to everyone!

Ok so now we approach New Year's week and all those folks who bought Points to go skiing or island hopping are itching to make a reservation. Well you know what will happen - 2 seconds after the opening bell ALL the reservations are gone.

I will make you a bet - on the day for New Year's reservations to begin there will be NO inventory left - gone - nothing in the computer. It was taken weeks ago by other, (more rich?) Marriott owners with Points to blow.

Right now Marriott allows 13 month reservations with 2 weeks of ownership but that won't mean a thing with Points.

In WM the solution is very simple - folks add 7 or 14 or more days in front of the real vacation and get 7 or 14 days at Galena Illinois in a cheap studio at the lowest possible Point charge - then they must pay for the Maui vacation in addition.

So what will Marriott do? Probably won't have daily vacations so folks will be adding a 7-day reservation or 2 of them in front of the real vacation.

Solution - buy more Points of course....

 

[taffy19]

We own WM a 100% Point based system that I just love to death.

The problem with ALL Point based systems, and one that will be fun to watch Marriott address, is oversaturation of prime holiday weeks.

If you have young kids there are only 14 weeks a year you can vacation with them - the summer and maybe week51 and 52. Week 7, President's week, has parents just yanking the kids out of school to go skiing.

So that's what Point based timeshare salesreps sell - only the holidays - to everyone!

Ok so now we approach New Year's week and all those folks who bought Points to go skiing or island hopping are itching to make a reservation. Well you know what will happen - 2 seconds after the opening bell ALL the reservations are gone.

I will make you a bet - on the day for New Year's reservations to begin there will be NO inventory left - gone - nothing in the computer. It was taken weeks ago by other, (more rich?) Marriott owners with Points to blow.

Right now Marriott allows 13 month reservations with 2 weeks of ownership but that won't mean a thing with Points.

In WM the solution is very simple - folks add 7 or 14 or more days in front of the real vacation and get 7 or 14 days at Galena Illinois in a cheap studio at the lowest possible Point charge - then they must pay for the Maui vacation in addition.

So what will Marriott do? Probably won't have daily vacations so folks will be adding a 7-day reservation or 2 of them in front of the real vacation.

Solution - buy more Points of course....

Is there anything new here? This is what people were doing before. They bought extra weeks from the Marriott or on the re-sale market so they were able to reserve the week they really wanted earlier than the next person who owned less weeks. The more points you buy, the more perks you will get, I believe.

The difference may be that you will have to buy the extra points through the Marriott only as they may not be worth much on the re-sale market because the extra perks that make your purchase more valuable do not transfer with a re-sale.

All the developers want us to buy through them and not through their competition which is the re-sale market today. More consumers are getting educated so they will have to come up with something that gives them the upper hand. When the floating system was introduced, it was supposedly to make it a more flexible system but, in reality, it is to their advantage and not ours because they can keep changing the system constantly and it will always cost us more money. That's for sure.

 

[jin]

good morning!!!

This just makes Perry's point!!! With the old "weeks" system if MVCI wanted to sell access to Maui Vilas they had to sell the "deed" to that week or a similar plat week with enough trading power with II to have a reasonable shot at "snagging" it. Most of this inventory is already gone.

With the points, they have to just sell enough combined points from their unsold inventory of "doggy" weeks to sell access to Maui without actually having the inventory!!!

I would like to hear from owners in other "point" systems to discover if they truly have access to prime inventory that is not their "home resort", in other words do DVC or HGVC owners need to be awake at 12:01 am at the onset of the 7 mos (or whatever) window..

I'm a HGVC owner, and can get prime inventory at all of Hilton's main locations so long as I plan 9 mos out, except sometimes Oahu, where I may need to be on the computer at 12:01... For many locations, I can get prime weeks much less than 9 mos out. Pete

 

[Janette]

As a Disney owner, I have had no trouble getting the times and resorts that I want with my points. I haven't stayed in my home resort since I bought the points. Yes, we've stayed in the new Bay Lake Towers with Magic Kingdom view. Disney points have worked for us. We have booked studios, one and two bedrooms.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening...

Thanks for the replies... This makes me feel better!!!

 

[timeos2]

It just works much better

good morning!!!

This just makes Perry's point!!! With the old "weeks" system if MVCI wanted to sell access to Maui Vilas they had to sell the "deed" to that week or a similar plat week with enough trading power with II to have a reasonable shot at "snagging" it. Most of this inventory is already gone.

With the points, they have to just sell enough combined points from their unsold inventory of "doggy" weeks to sell access to Maui without actually having the inventory!!!

I would like to hear from owners in other "point" systems to discover if they truly have access to prime inventory that is not their "home resort", in other words do DVC or HGVC owners need to be awake at 12:01 am at the onset of the 7 mos (or whatever) window..

NO NO NO! We belong to three points based systems, all have at some time in the past been weeks based. We have easily obtained the best (be they location, newest, largest, view, whatever) with no home advantage OR "elite" type status. Just a regular poinmts owner, using their point as they wish for what they want in the size/location/date they want with no special phoning or web reservation at XX:XX AM on the 1st day - we just called/logged on made the request, paid the needed points and enjoyed our vacations. Unlike weeks where the nonsense of only getting your exact ownership or size or whatever rules with points people are free to plan what they REALY want and carefully allot points - not take the biggest & best because they they only get one crack at the pool. Use naturally gets spred out & owners are happy getting what they want for the lowest possible points leaving more for later. Its a totally different mentality that works MUCH better than weeks.

Once you see it work you'll wonder why they waited so long to offer a far superior way to use multiple resorts/locations without a third party cost like II.

 

[puckmanfl]

cool beans...

this is what I am looking for...

some positive experiences on the other side of the fence!!

Jon.. I appreciate your input!!!

 

[PerryM]

%#$&@^( new system.....

Is there anything new here? This is what people were doing before. They bought extra weeks from the Marriott or on the re-sale market so they were able to reserve the week they really wanted earlier than the next person who owned less weeks. The more points you buy, the more perks you will get, I believe.

The difference may be that you will have to buy the extra points through the Marriott only as they may not be worth much on the re-sale market because the extra perks that make your purchase more valuable do not transfer with a re-sale.

All the developers want us to buy through them and not through their competition which is the re-sale market today. More consumers are getting educated so they will have to come up with something that gives them the upper hand. When the floating system was introduced, it was supposedly to make it a more flexible system but, in reality, it is to their advantage and not ours because they can keep changing the system constantly and it will always cost us more money. That's for sure.

Not really but will the Marriott salesrep sell more Points than a reservation requires?

E.g. Week 52 at MountainSide costs 60,000 Points - will the salesrep sell a 60,000 Point package or fess up and tell the new owner that getting that week will be impossible with 60,000 Points? Will he then have to sell a 30,000 Point package which will allow a Branson week to be added in front of the MountainSide?

Right now it's no big deal since week 52 is a Platinum Plus Holiday week there and other Platinum owners can't get that week. That will instantly change with the new program.

Our week 52 MountainSide owner joins the new program and then finds out that there is no way in hell to get back to MountainSide for week 52 or week 52 in Maui or any other hot location with 60,000 Points. He needs to buy more Points to get a "like for like" reservation.

So will Marriott owners realize this as they buy memberships and deposit their hot holiday weeks? That same salesrep who sold our first new owner 90,000 Points to get to a 60,000 Point reservation - will he tell the week 52 owner that in addition to paying to convert his week 52 he needs to buy 30,000 more Points to get back to MountainSide for New Years?

Ohhhhhhhhhhh - I can almost hear the swearing on the Marriott hot line

This new sales scheme is going to be a winner for Marriott, but what about the 400,000 owners?

I can't put together any scenarios where the owners actually benefit from this scheme - we just get screwed...

 

[dougp26364]

It's one thing to start a timeshare company from scratch and make it Point based like Disney or WM. It's something entirely different to sell weeks, let owners exchange reservations in II and then hijack those same weeks to use in a new Points sales scheme.

If Marriott wants to introduce a Point based exchange system like RedWeek or Resort2resort I have no problems with that at all - I'd shout for joy.

But that's NOT what Marriott seems to be doing - it used the exchange scheme to get fuel (reservations) for their sales engine.

It's very similar to ethanol - if you convert leaves and twigs and garbage into ethanol to fuel our cars that's OK with me. But when you divert corn from human fuel to automobile fuel that's just a bad idea.

There are good fuel sources and bad fuel sources - Marriott seems to be taking our fuel (reservations) to make their new Point-based sales engine run.

The current week-based timeshare system requires Marriott to buy their own fuel and not steal it from us.




Some of you guys give Marriott the benefit of the doubt - they will be a good little timeshare developer.

Me, I just assume they will stab me in the back to make a buck or two - to each his/her own.

If not for the fact we participate in DRI's points based internal exchange system, I'd agree with you about concerns over indtroducing a points based system along with a weeks based system. But, DRI makes it work. In fact, DRI's system is even more convulted than what Marriott is proposing in that they have deeded weeks, deeded weeks that have joined the points based system but kept the deeds and trust based ownerships that have no deeds or home resorts. Oddly enough, the system works and it works very well IMHO.

Now, considering that there is a silent partnership between DRI and Marriott and one has to wonder how much of the DRI system Marriott will incorperate? Grand Chateau was suppose to be a DRI timeshare before they stuck a deal with Marriott that allowed Marriott to brand the resort in the Marriott name. I don't know how deep the partnership runs but, I wouldn't have trouble believing that DRI would assist Marriott......for a price......with the developement of a new internal system. I would never expect it to mimic DRI's system perfectly but, I can see that being used as a foundation. There's nothing better than using a successful system as a foundation if possible rather than start from scratch.

 

[scrapngen]

If not for the fact we participate in DRI's points based internal exchange system, I'd agree with you about concerns over indtroducing a points based system along with a weeks based system. But, DRI makes it work. In fact, DRI's system is even more convulted than what Marriott is proposing in that they have deeded weeks, deeded weeks that have joined the points based system but kept the deeds and trust based ownerships that have no deeds or home resorts. Oddly enough, the system works and it works very well IMHO.

Now, considering that there is a silent partnership between DRI and Marriott and one has to wonder how much of the DRI system Marriott will incorperate? Grand Chateau was suppose to be a DRI timeshare before they stuck a deal with Marriott that allowed Marriott to brand the resort in the Marriott name. I don't know how deep the partnership runs but, I wouldn't have trouble believing that DRI would assist Marriott......for a price......with the developement of a new internal system. I would never expect it to mimic DRI's system perfectly but, I can see that being used as a foundation. There's nothing better than using a successful system as a foundation if possible rather than start from scratch.

WOW!! It took the #1389th post for someone to suggest that it might be like DRI. A new idea in this thread!! Not that I know anything about DRI, but this is - to my knowledge - the first time someone has speculated this angle.

 

[dougp26364]

good morning!!!

This just makes Perry's point!!! With the old "weeks" system if MVCI wanted to sell access to Maui Vilas they had to sell the "deed" to that week or a similar plat week with enough trading power with II to have a reasonable shot at "snagging" it. Most of this inventory is already gone.

With the points, they have to just sell enough combined points from their unsold inventory of "doggy" weeks to sell access to Maui without actually having the inventory!!!

I would like to hear from owners in other "point" systems to discover if they truly have access to prime inventory that is not their "home resort", in other words do DVC or HGVC owners need to be awake at 12:01 am at the onset of the 7 mos (or whatever) window..

I've posted more than once about my experience with both HGVC and DRI's points based systems. I can make the reservations I want considerably EASIER than the deposit and hope method with the weeks system Marriott employ's. PLUS, there's NO WASTE in trade power. I only pay for what I use. No more trading a 2 bedroom for a 1 bedroom. No more trading a Platinum season for a Gold season. You pay for what you use. You can also pay for and reserve the view you want. With Marriott, as it stands now, I can pretty much count on not getting a premium view.

With DRI I have very little problem getting a Hawaiian week if I want it so lone as it's a DRI managed resort. With Hilton I can usually get weeks but, I might not be able to get the exact unit style/size/view I want. The premium views are not always available with either HGVC or with DRI. DRI has a lot more ocean view or ocean front units available than does Hilton.

Hilton has been employing the technique Perry is most concerned about. That is selling hawaii to people buying in Vegas and Orlando. Without fail any time I've sat through an owners update I've heard a salesman introduce a new sale in Vegas as so-and-so just bought X number of points and they're going to Hawaii. The problem with Hilton is they have built far more units in Vegas and Orlando than can feasably exchange into Hawaii. Hilton, to it's credit, has been building more units on Oahu and the Big Island.

DRI, on the other hand, has never proven to have an issue with inventory except when it's with one of the affiliated resorts. The affiliates have limited inventory available for exchange. It looks nice because they can advertise more resorts than they've either built or manage but, it's not realistic. I have no problems seeing availability for almost any week I want to travel with resorts managed by DRI.

 

[dougp26364]

WOW!! It took the #1389th post for someone to suggest that it might be like DRI. A new idea in this thread!! Not that I know anything about DRI, but this is - to my knowledge - the first time someone has speculated this angle.

I think somewhere in the past I've speculated about this but, it may have been covered by a thousand posts all concerned about how Marriott was going to screw oweners over. Or, maybe I just thought about it and figured it wasn't worth posting.

 

[dougp26364]

We own WM a 100% Point based system that I just love to death.

The problem with ALL Point based systems, and one that will be fun to watch Marriott address, is oversaturation of prime holiday weeks.

If you have young kids there are only 14 weeks a year you can vacation with them - the summer and maybe week51 and 52. Week 7, President's week, has parents just yanking the kids out of school to go skiing.

So that's what Point based timeshare salesreps sell - only the holidays - to everyone!

Ok so now we approach New Year's week and all those folks who bought Points to go skiing or island hopping are itching to make a reservation. Well you know what will happen - 2 seconds after the opening bell ALL the reservations are gone.

I will make you a bet - on the day for New Year's reservations to begin there will be NO inventory left - gone - nothing in the computer. It was taken weeks ago by other, (more rich?) Marriott owners with Points to blow.

Right now Marriott allows 13 month reservations with 2 weeks of ownership but that won't mean a thing with Points.

In WM the solution is very simple - folks add 7 or 14 or more days in front of the real vacation and get 7 or 14 days at Galena Illinois in a cheap studio at the lowest possible Point charge - then they must pay for the Maui vacation in addition.

So what will Marriott do? Probably won't have daily vacations so folks will be adding a 7-day reservation or 2 of them in front of the real vacation.

Solution - buy more Points of course....

This happens with Marriot as well. Ask any NCV owner who needs a summer week.

But with Marriott and their weeks based system, there's a rub. Marriott doesn't control inventory. There are owners who believe the MUST have the highest exchange power available or they just won't get the exchange they want. So you have owners reserving high demand weeks, just to exchange them. That precious inventory is LOST to all the rest of the Marriott owners who own at that resort.

With a points based system, management controls inventory. Owners who want to reserve and stay at their home resorts get first dibs. Then all other owners in the system and finally inventory is released for all other exchangers outside the system. I've found that with Hyatt's system, I pretty much have to wait until the 6 month mark to confirm an exchange.

Those who want to exchange with Interval exchange points. Points are points and have a fixed value. No more losing all the high demand inventory just for exchanges. It also makes those that want prime weeks in Marriott's system buy into the system.

Now Marriott and all other points based systems will have some sort of agreement that so many high value weeks, so many medium value weeks and so many low value weeks will be given to Interval. There has to be some way for Interval to set a value on points and this appears to be how it's done.

I have NO problem getting high demand weeks at my home resorts with Hilton or DRI. But with Marriott, if I want either Memorial Day week or Thanksgiving week at Ocean Pointe, I'd better be on the phone when the reservations open. To many Silver season owners want those weeks to exchange feeling they MUST have the highest demand week for exchange. That shorts owners at Ocean Pointe who actually want to reserve that week for vacation.

 

[dougp26364]

Is there anything new here? This is what people were doing before. They bought extra weeks from the Marriott or on the re-sale market so they were able to reserve the week they really wanted earlier than the next person who owned less weeks. The more points you buy, the more perks you will get, I believe.

The difference may be that you will have to buy the extra points through the Marriott only as they may not be worth much on the re-sale market because the extra perks that make your purchase more valuable do not transfer with a re-sale.

All the developers want us to buy through them and not through their competition which is the re-sale market today. More consumers are getting educated so they will have to come up with something that gives them the upper hand. When the floating system was introduced, it was supposedly to make it a more flexible system but, in reality, it is to their advantage and not ours because they can keep changing the system constantly and it will always cost us more money. That's for sure.

Perry is focused on Marriott screwing owners over to make a buck. Maybe he's right. I don't think so because Marriott has treated owners pretty well over the years.

I own in two points based systems plus two resorts managed by Marriott and two Managed by Southwind. By far the easiest for us to use and get the most value out of are the two points based systems. There are tricks to points based systems and, those that bought with Marriott just to exchange might find their purchases don't work as well in a points based system.

Perry bought a Gold week at a good resort and has been successful in exchanging up into more expensive weeks. That's may (or may not) come to a end with Marriott's new internal system. It's my opinion the crying the sky is falling before the new system is announced is a waste of breath. We just don't know what these changes will bring. It could be a really bad deal or it could be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Since we bought our weeks to use, I'm not worried. I have a contract that guarentee's I can use one week in my season each year. I bought to use. That makes this easier, and more interesting, for me.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I suggest another word:

Original: Marriott still has to have the inventory to sell.

Perry's: Marriott still has to have ANY inventory to sell.

In the current model you're suggesting they need Maui inventory to sell which they don't, all they need is any low ball inventory to sell the dream now. with a points system it will be very clear that you need to purchase enough points for Hawaii, which will be more than most people will want to pay, so less will go for Hawaii. And if they have to borrow from the next year than that next year they won't be putting in another request for Hawaii because they will need more points

 

[taffy19]

Perry is focused on Marriott screwing owners over to make a buck. Maybe he's right. I don't think so because Marriott has treated owners pretty well over the years.

I own in two points based systems plus two resorts managed by Marriott and two Managed by Southwind. By far the easiest for us to use and get the most value out of are the two points based systems. There are tricks to points based systems and, those that bought with Marriott just to exchange might find their purchases don't work as well in a points based system.

Perry bought a Gold week at a good resort and has been successful in exchanging up into more expensive weeks. That's may (or may not) come to a end with Marriott's new internal system. It's my opinion the crying the sky is falling before the new system is announced is a waste of breath. We just don't know what these changes will bring. It could be a really bad deal or it could be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Since we bought our weeks to use, I'm not worried. I have a contract that guarentee's I can use one week in my season each year. I bought to use. That makes this easier, and more interesting, for me.

I hardly believe that the Marriott wants to upset their whole customer base but there have to be two complete different systems as I see it. The week owners have to be able to reserve a week at their home resort in the season they bought and with the view that came with the deed. This is their right.

We own at a little resort that has deeded weeks with only two seasons and no view category. A few years later, they started converting some owners to the point system with RCI. The owners of the deeded weeks can book their full week or two partial weeks 13 months out and after that the point owners can reserve the weeks or partial weeks that are left over. The best weeks are already long gone so people are not happy with the point system at all nor will they ever get a view unit because they are all gone in a few minutes 13 months out.

The people, who do not convert, should always keep the right to book a full week at their Marriott home resort. I wonder if they will get a head start too like it is with our little independent timeshare resort. How else can they do it unless they have two complete separate inventories?

The new system has to be an awful lot better for people to make the switch. I have a feeling that the maintenance fees will be quite a bit lower at some of the resorts where they are very high right now so that will entice some people to make the switch if the conversion fee isn't too high either.

Who knows, it may be the best system in the industry from here on and the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. We won't have to wait much longer to find out what it will be. It's going to be interesting.

 

[Dean]

It's one thing to start a timeshare company from scratch and make it Point based like Disney or WM. It's something entirely different to sell weeks, let owners exchange reservations in II and then hijack those same weeks to use in a new Points sales scheme.

If Marriott wants to introduce a Point based exchange system like RedWeek or Resort2resort I have no problems with that at all - I'd shout for joy.

But that's NOT what Marriott seems to be doing - it used the exchange scheme to get fuel (reservations) for their sales engine.

Perry to hold that Marriott can't stop one system where it's at and start another is unrealistic, IMO. Wyndham (FF), Bluegreen to a degree and others, have converted from one to another over the years. Marriott took over other resorts to get a stake in the timeshare world, some of those HP owners are still not happy about it. Plus, as I've noted, they can only access the inventory they own and that people give up to convert, assumine they perform ethically of course, so realistically no raiding would occur. However, I would agree that a system like redweeks or Hyatt where you have the underlying week or get pointgs is one option with merit. The problem is that that type of system still pretty much limits you to a full week type of approach and prevents one of the largest benefits of points, flexibility.

cool beans...

this is what I am looking for...

some positive experiences on the other side of the fence!!

Jon.. I appreciate your input!!!

We own with DVC, RCI points and Bluegreen plus an individual resort that works on points as well as owning multiple Marriott weeks. We enjoy them all for what we use them for. Overall Bluegreen has been the best value but we have gotten the best vacation and exchange options out of Marriott and lover staying with DVC. The thing about even the best MVCI points option (whatever that is) is that it will help some and hurt others if they participate, it WILL NOT be neutral to everyone. And any change will likely hurt the options of those of us who own trading weeks the most, at least in the long term, esp if we don't convert at least those units. While it might raise the trade power, I'm betting it will remove the II 24 day preference and significantly reduce the options of trading in to other Marriotts both due to loss of the internal trade perference and the reduction in inventory. Plus what's ideal for you might not be ideal for me.

My perfect system would be one where the entire current system was converted to points, gave me the option of reserving the weeks I currently do but then give secondary options for additional weeks to complement what I now use and for other travels to Marriotts I don't own at like Maui using the points from my "trading" weeks. This would require not only a home resort priority but a view and season priority OR the option of reserving my current weeks independent of the points system similar to the way Bluegreen does.

 

[dougp26364]

I hardly believe that the Marriott wants to upset their whole customer base but there have to be two complete different systems as I see it. The week owners have to be able to reserve a week at their home resort in the season they bought and with the view that came with the deed. This is their right.

We own at a little resort that has deeded weeks with only two seasons and no view category. A few years later, they started converting some owners to the point system with RCI. The owners of the deeded weeks can book their full week or two partial weeks 13 months out and after that the point owners can reserve the weeks or partial weeks that are left over. The best weeks are already long gone so people are not happy with the point system at all nor will they ever get a view unit because they are all gone in a few minutes 13 months out.

The people, who do not convert, should always keep the right to book a full week at their Marriott home resort. I wonder if they will get a head start too like it is with our little independent timeshare resort. How else can they do it unless they have two complete separate inventories?

The new system has to be an awful lot better for people to make the switch. I have a feeling that the maintenance fees will be quite a bit lower at some of the resorts where they are very high right now so that will entice some people to make the switch if the conversion fee isn't too high either.

Who knows, it may be the best system in the industry from here on and the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. We won't have to wait much longer to find out what it will be. It's going to be interesting.

All I can say in reply is the DRI has no less than three different systems in play at the same time. Trust based owners, who can reserve a unit in their particular trust at 13 months, deeded owners converted to points who can reserve their home resort at 12 months and deeded weeks based owners who can reserve their units at 12 months. All inventory is kept seperate and no one has an issue getting a week/view at their home resort as far as I've been able to tell. As a deeded owner in the points program, I have had no problems and, it's been easier than exchanging in Marriott's current system. It's been MUCH easier.

The problem owners at the small resort may be having is that it's a small resort and you're dealing with RCI points, not an internal systems points. Marriott has 50 resorts with a couple of new ones opening soon. Inventory should not be an issue with Marriott. I am a little nervous about the first couple of years and being able to see inventory in all 50 Marriott resorts but, I'll have to wait to see what the plan looks like and how Marriott has addressed whatever concerns I might have.

 

[PerryM]

Marriott marching to ultimate victory....

Marriott why not introduce your hot new scheme in 2 phases:

June 2010
Release ONLY an internal exchange system for Marriott owners; keep hawking weeks. Charge $99 to join and $99 per exchange. Open to all - don't need the timeshare gestapo figuring out where an owner decided to buy their week. (Checking their papers....)

June 2011
Stop selling weeks and start selling Points.

See how simple this is.

 

[dougp26364]

Marriott why not introduce your hot new scheme in 2 phases:

June 2010
Release ONLY an internal exchange system for Marriott owners; keep hawking weeks. Charge $99 to join and $99 per exchange. Open to all - don't need the timeshare gestapo figuring out where an owner decided to buy their week. (Checking their papers....)

June 2011
Stop selling weeks and start selling Points.

See how simple this is.

And since all we have right now is rampent speculation, who says that Marriott isn't going to do something similar? It's those that have been whipping everyone into a frenzy about how owners are going to be screwed without even knowing the details.

Until proven otherwise, I prefer to have a positive outlook on any new system. The weeks system is outdated. Marriott will have to change and adapt to keep up or all the other systems out there will begin to look better to buyers. Starwood, Hilton and Disney have converted to points long ago. So many have moved to points that's remaining in a weeks based system almost doesn't make any sense. It's been a long time coming for Marriott to convert. They haven't converted yet but there's enough out there for us to believe they're about to. The only thing that makes anyone worry is the fear of the unknown. There is no reason to fear the unknown. It's like being afraid of the dark.