Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[jlf58]

The thing that stinks is the last week before the change, most people who buy onsite will have no idea what is about to happen.

 

[dougp26364]

Just some opinionated thoughts here. After all, if we had all of the facts, this thread would not be very much fun.

If people know all of their options in the timeshare world, very few people would even consider a retail priced (from Marriott) timeshare point program versus a resale deeded week. The gauge on how soon the points program will effect deeded week owners will be based on how many deeded week owners convert to points. The question is how much money will Marriott charge deeded week owners? In Asia it was $5,000 and from the looks of things, very few people converted. One, because $5,000 is too much. Two, because the point system in Asia did not really give you anything better other than a low entry price on points and the hotel "Club Connections" (I think many of the people that converted, added points at the low price - Marriott gave up to one year at the initial offering price once your deeded week was converted).

My whole purpose in acquiring a timeshare was to get away from hotel rooms. With children, we want the extra bedroom and the ability to cook so we do not have to pay $20-$30 a head for breakfast. Club Connections and Marriott Reward points will not sway very many people. I think the only way to make people go for the points is to give them something big that their regular deeded week cannot give them. The only thing that comes to mind is "priority". People want assurance that they will be first in line. I don't think it will come to what Perry talked about, but I do think it will move in that direction (not having an effect on most people but may start to creep in over time).

Marriott cannot sell point program timeshares for weeks of inventory they do not have. They can fill up the system, but they cannot overfill it as people will not be able to use their programs (gridlock). A deeded week is exactly that. They will either have to change/adjust/add the rules (as far as who gets priority - Points or Deeds) or build/add more resorts. I think they will do both. Point owners will have an edge on priority in the long term (concerning trades - not home resort weeks). Marriott will also add more resorts (your tier II properties/resorts that are not part of MVCI right now) and also some of their Tier I hotels NYC Marquis, Miami South Beach, etc. (prime properties in locations where MVCI does not currently exist).

Making a point program is not enough to get anyone excited about buying into the program. They need to add some things and make it enticing for deeded week owners to convert. Smoke and mirrors will result in a failed program when dealing with the well educated timeshare owners of the Western world.

I guess we will find out for sure in a few weeks.

What I've seen with the one other program we own where it started as a weeks based exchange, then morphed into a points based club then morphed yet again into a trust/points based club is that inventory is kept seperate.

Weeks owners have retained all their original rights and can book according to the original rules. If a deeded weeks based owner wants to exchange, it's done via I.I. They can book a floating week from the weeks inventory at 12 months.

Those that joined the points based internal program have had their deeded week assigned a points value and they now share in the points inventory for exchanges. Deeded owners participating in the internal points exchange program but have a 2 month home resort window for the resort they're deeded.

The trust based ownership is essentially the same as the points but, trust based owners have a one month home resort adavantage for all the resorts in their trust group (there are at least three groups) and, their home resort is essentially any resort they want to book in their particular trust.

All owners that are in one of the points based programs can book any resort at the 9 month interval. Again, only those who have choosen to join either one of the trusts or had their deeded week assigned a points value and joined the internal exchange program have their weeks placed into this inventory. They can not exchange for weeks held in the weeks inventory for deeded week owners who remain outside the internal exchange program.

IMHO, from a management point of view this could be an inventory nightmare. Yet they do manage it very nicely. There is a management fee (of course) to pay for the resources necessary to keep everything straight, the reservation system and Interval Gold membership, which is included in the management fee's.

I'm thinking that a new management fee is a very real possiblity for any new internal exchange program Marriott comes up with but, I'm also thinking that fee will include a coroporate account with Interval. If (and it's a big if) internal exchanges are free or greatly reduced and if I can get by without a personal account at Interval, then any management fee for any new internal exchange program might be negated by the saving of paying Interval's membership and exchange fee's.

As for adding extra's, I look for the same stuff most other programs offer. Rental cars, FF miles, airline flight certificates, reduction of MF's et.......I would look for something like a straight conversion to the Marriot Rewards Program rather than exchanging your resort week for MR points and then having to exchange those points for hotel nights or services.

 

[taffy19]

The thing that stinks is the last week before the change, most people who buy onsite will have no idea what is about to happen.

Fletch, they told us in March already that no more deeded weeks were going to be sold after June. The advantage was that we would be buying at a 20% discount so supposedly had a 20% equity already.

I remember her telling us that Marriott would not sell at a lower price from there on. She didn't mention the re-sale market, of course. A lot of people, who take the tour, don't even know that this is out there. She made us believe that a deeded fixed week/unit would be a smart purchase.

If the point packages are going for the same high price, why would people be unhappy? They most likely get the conversion free of charge. I felt for the people, who bought at the high price and then a week later the prices dropped by 25% and they could no longer rescind the purchase because the rescission time had passed.

I would rather buy the DSV-I re-sale that someone here bought for $500 and call that a smart purchase. What a fantastic deal!

 

[jlf58]

Except that that 20% discount has been running for 14 month already .
I disagree that they will tell anyone a week before they switch, they can upgrade for free. That would open up a whole can of worms !!!

Fletch, they told us in March already that no more deeded weeks were going to be sold after June. The advantage was that we would be buying at a 20% discount so supposedly had a 20% equity already.

I remember her telling us that Marriott would not sell at a lower price from there on. She didn't mention the re-sale market, of course. A lot of people, who take the tour, don't even know that this is out there. She made us believe that a deeded fixed week/unit would be a smart purchase.

If the point packages are going for the same high price, why would people be unhappy? They most likely get the conversion free of charge. I felt for the people, who bought at the high price and then a week later the prices dropped by 25% and they could no longer rescind the purchase because the rescission time had passed.

I would rather buy the DSV-I re-sale that someone here bought for $500 and call that a smart purchase. What a fantastic deal!

 

[taffy19]

Except that that 20% discount has been running for 14 month already .
I disagree that they will tell anyone a week before they switch, they can upgrade for free. That would open up a whole can of worms !!!

Wasn't the discount 25%? I remember that we were in Maui and had done an update and then they called us back to let us know that they had dropped the prices by 25%. I couldn't believe my ears as they had never done that before. It most likely dropped the re-sale prices too by 25% so that was a double blow for the people who bought at a higher price in case they have to sell suddenly.

If people knew that a timeshare is practically worthless, the moment you walk out of the door, people would not buy them unless you are planning to keep it for many years. I feel that we have done OK with our two original timeshares that we have owned since 1983 but I am not so sure about the Marriott because we can't get the use out of it like we have had with the others. The two in Mexico is another story. Buy here and exchange to Mexico.

It's ironic but my husband is talking to our friends who went with us to Maui two years ago and they asked us when do we go again. I was planning to skip Maui next year so may tell them that they will have to wait a year longer. They own Worlmark so we can double our stay. It does save money this way and they are a fun couple to be around.

 

[PerryM]

Don't forget your favorite analgesic...

Except that that 20% discount has been running for 14 month already .
I disagree that they will tell anyone a week before they switch, they can upgrade for free. That would open up a whole can of worms !!!

I've never understood American companies (Probably worldwide) desire to punish their customers. It truly boggles my mind. Marriott is a leader in this area.

ALL Marriott owners buying, from Marriott, 2 years ago got screwed with the price reductions and Marriott just sat on their hands and smiled - the American version of customer relations. Even a simple coupon, for a bottle of aspirin, would have been a nice gesture - but nooooooooooooo.

I suspect that the new "exchange" system will be the same.

So folks, stock up on aspirin or your choice of analgesic (pain reliever for those that live in St. Louis) for what's about to hit us - only 2 weeks and counting...

 

[GaryDouglas]

Last week at the Maui Ocean Club, they started clearing the display area in the middle of the sales office (around 20'X20') and one of the entrance walls was cleared of displays. Maybe they are just updating to something more high tech, or maybe they are preparing for the ides of June...

 

[Asia2000]

One thing is for sure. When the first TUGger goes to the first "new" presentation, it will analyzed down to the last little minute detail by the experts on this site. It is kind of like that little technology repair company getting their hands on the new I-pad or I-phone. This should be a lot of fun to read and analyze.

 

[Bruyerebrit]

Just went through a presentation at Shadow Ridge today. Nothing surprising, but just wanted to add another "data point" to this avalanche of information (and speculation!). Same old story....sales office will shut down June 15th for training on the new system. What I didn't appreciate was the sales slime approach to my resale week...it's "not recognized by Marriott", it's really "nothing" and other condescending blah, blah, blah. Since we also own a "direct" week, the sales slime focused exhaustively on our upcoming choice to remain a "legacy" owner or convert to the new system, with new flexibility. For good measure, he also repeated himself at least three times for each ridiculous point he made. Oh, and we've gotta get that deeded week in now, because they're gone forever in two weeks..and, yes, you guessed it, when we didn't bite we got an earful of EOY "bargains" at 60% off the EY price. The only saving grace was that he fetched a senior guy when he realized he wasn't getting anywhere and that fellow was a true professional...I always respect them, even if I don't want to buy what they're selling.

 

[jlf58]

It was 25% for owners for a few months but never non-owners. thats not counting Marco which is 35% on some

Wasn't the discount 25%? I remember that we were in Maui and had done an update and then they called us back to let us know that they had dropped the prices by 25%. I couldn't believe my ears as they had never done that before. It most likely dropped the re-sale prices too by 25% so that was a double blow for the people who bought at a higher price in case they have to sell suddenly.

If people knew that a timeshare is practically worthless, the moment you walk out of the door, people would not buy them unless you are planning to keep it for many years. I feel that we have done OK with our two original timeshares that we have owned since 1983 but I am not so sure about the Marriott because we can't get the use out of it like we have had with the others. The two in Mexico is another story. Buy here and exchange to Mexico.

It's ironic but my husband is talking to our friends who went with us to Maui two years ago and they asked us when do we go again. I was planning to skip Maui next year so may tell them that they will have to wait a year longer. They own Worlmark so we can double our stay. It does save money this way and they are a fun couple to be around.

 

[PerryM]

Just went through a presentation at Shadow Ridge today. Nothing surprising, but just wanted to add another "data point" to this avalanche of information (and speculation!). Same old story....sales office will shut down June 15th for training on the new system. What I didn't appreciate was the sales slime approach to my resale week...it's "not recognized by Marriott", it's really "nothing" and other condescending blah, blah, blah. Since we also own a "direct" week, the sales slime focused exhaustively on our upcoming choice to remain a "legacy" owner or convert to the new system, with new flexibility. For good measure, he also repeated himself at least three times for each ridiculous point he made. Oh, and we've gotta get that deeded week in now, because they're gone forever in two weeks..and, yes, you guessed it, when we didn't bite we got an earful of EOY "bargains" at 60% off the EY price. The only saving grace was that he fetched a senior guy when he realized he wasn't getting anywhere and that fellow was a true professional...I always respect them, even if I don't want to buy what they're selling.

The logical question to ask our slippery salesrep is:

"So if I have to sell my Marriott week to pay bills, you're saying it's worthless?"

That may actually be the correct answer, to the question, starting on 6/15/10.

• Marriott will sell Points and not weeks.
• Resales will sell weeks and not Points.

Does not compute.....

 

[winger]

Sales experience

I have tried staying away from this thread , but guess I will post my experience. I had a email conversation with a sales executive in Orlando (the depart who can sell any available Marriott inventory). The conversation basically started with him asking how my Marriott ownership has been so far (we've now owned with MVCI over 2 years)...

I basically mentioned I wished Marriott would move to the points system, that we have recently (a couple of years ago) increased our Diamond Resorts 'points' and have been enjoying that flexibility points offer over weekly intervals such as Marriott's.

Strangely enough, his response yesterday (5/31) made NO mention of any pending Marriott changes to the weekly system. Not even a hint. I mean, if I were the rep in this situation and knew something was coming, I would either NOT even respond and wait for the official Marriott decision on points or no points, OR just recommend for me to hang tight as something maybe in the works which I would find interesting.

He just concluded the email by asking if I had more interest in adding more Marriott ownership.

 

[scrapngen]

I would imagine someone replying in email would be very careful and/or experienced enough not to say or reference anything that is not officially available in writing ... especially if that salesperson was able to sell any Marriott property. IMHO...

 

[winger]

I would imagine someone replying in email would be very careful and/or experienced enough not to say or reference anything that is not officially available in writing ... especially if that salesperson was able to sell any Marriott property. IMHO...

I understand that, but I am thinking IF a change to points were definitely pending, then the rep would/should be aware of what I just mentioned to him (my strong interest in a points system), that he would have responded differently to me (holding off on a response until a points system were available is one way of responding) if he really wanted to make a sale to me.

I mean, aren't most sales people trained to listen to their customers and try to cater the product to the customers' desires/needs?

 

[jrhcolleton]

OK 3 (SIMPLE?) questions on what to do for the next 15 days

Just went to a very professional presentation today and some of the offers are very enticing, however with the uncertainty I (like many others) am frozen on decision making. I own both resale weeks and Developer weeks. Marriott is still offering equity trades. Marriott is still selling deeded weeks, of course. The questions are:

1. Will the new system devalue older resale weeks owned by all of us and how?
2. Will deeded weeks purchased from Marriott over the next 2 weeks get devalued or in some way be negatively impacted and how?
3. Will older customer owned developer weeks be switched into the points system at no cost or will they be devalued as well?
4. Since nearly all Marriott weeks are red weeks (some redder than others) will gold/silver less desirable properties have points assigned that will eliminate the ability to trade up as we tuggers are educated to do. In other words will the trading "skill" be eliminated?

I said they were easy questions but I know they are not. I would not expect any specific answers, but then again there may be some and/or educated speculation. My tendancy is to sit on my wallet because of this uncertainty. But then again I have been very pleased with my Marriott timeshare purchases and experiences over the past 20 years and view them as really being a customer satisfaction driven company. And they do have 400,000 of those. So they must somehow satisfy the 400,000 but also create incentive to gain revenue in this depressed market. Quite a tightrope to walk.

 

[scrapngen]

I understand that, but I am thinking IF a change to points were definitely pending, then the rep would/should be aware of what I just mentioned to him (my strong interest in a points system), that he would have responded differently to me (holding off on a response until a points system were available is one way of responding) if he really wanted to make a sale to me.

I mean, aren't most sales people trained to listen to their customers and try to cater the product to the customers' desires/needs?

I do get your point, but still think he might have had his hands tied. It will be interesting to see if - assuming a new system rolls out - he then emails you as a follow-up saying "Hey, now we have a points type offering that might interest you based on your previous questions..."

 

[winger]

I do get your point, but still think he might have had his hands tied. It will be interesting to see if - assuming a new system rolls out - he then emails you as a follow-up saying "Hey, now we have a points type offering that might interest you based on your previous questions..."

LOL I am sure he will. This is a rep I have been in contact with for the past year + . He is a very nice man.

 

[scrapngen]

LOL I am sure he will. This is a rep I have been in contact with for the past year + . He is a very nice man.

Great! Maybe he'll be able to help add fuel to the debate once the shake-up occurs

Personally, I don't have a big dog in this one. I bought specific fixed weeks to use. If they trade better with a new system, that might be useful down the road, but not so much now.

My interest lies in future purchases. We are thinking about adding another week that would be floating. Decided to wait and see because we weren't likely to complete a sale before the potential changes. So we have to see if new system makes sense, or if resale continues to be the better idea - but that's where this will be SO interesting!! If new system, then the potential purchase decision becomes much more complicated as it will be unclear what the benefits to resale vs. developer might be. I know some will always say resale is better, but to me it is more likely that the waters will be muddy for some time - blurry at best.

 

[Powerguy]

The logical question to ask our slippery salesrep is:

"So if I have to sell my Marriott week to pay bills, you're saying it's worthless?"

That may actually be the correct answer, to the question, starting on 6/15/10.

• Marriott will sell Points and not weeks.
• Resales will sell weeks and not Points.

Does not compute.....

So how would one sell points if they wanted out?

 

[davidvel]

Just went through a presentation at Shadow Ridge today. Nothing surprising, but just wanted to add another "data point" to this avalanche of information (and speculation!). Same old story....sales office will shut down June 15th for training on the new system.

If this is true...thank god the'll be tied up during our visit.

 

[PerryM]

Zero is a very cold number...

So how would one sell points if they wanted out?

Forget selling Points - they won't transfer with the deeded week.

Your deeded week is worth - what?

I have no idea after 6/15/10 - Marriott won't quote prices per week anymore - they are ZERO.

As a buyer I'd beat the seller over the head that Marriott values their week as ZERO!

Then there is the sticky matter of the membership fee. Let's say that resale weeks can enter the new system for $3,500 and that membership fee doesn't transfer to the new owner. As a buyer I'm going to demand the seller pay for that $3,500 so I can use the week in the new Points system. (I'm simply going to lower my offer, what ever it is, by $3,500 and so will everyone else)


This isn't going to be pretty folks....

 

[m61376]

LOL I am sure he will. This is a rep I have been in contact with for the past year + . He is a very nice man.

I wonder if you called him if the response would be any different, since it wouldn't be in writing.

 

[potchak]

I think Marriott would be insane to charge $3500 for membership fee to join this new program only because people are concerned about their jobs right now, people don't want to be forking over what could be 3 months of mortgage payments! I know I would not consider spending that kind of money right now unless we got something pretty damn good for it right off the bat! I can't imagine that Marriott is that stupid, although how convenient that they consider changing over to a new points based system right before everyone starts booking 4th of July week!

 

[PerryM]

I think Marriott would be insane to charge $3500 for membership fee to join this new program only because people are concerned about their jobs right now, people don't want to be forking over what could be 3 months of mortgage payments! I know I would not consider spending that kind of money right now unless we got something pretty damn good for it right off the bat! I can't imagine that Marriott is that stupid, although how convenient that they consider changing over to a new points based system right before everyone starts booking 4th of July week!

My guess is that a Marriott bought week can become part of the new Points exchange system for $2,500.

Resales are able to do the same thing but cost more - my guess is $3,500.

In 2 weeks we will find out just how much money Marriott want's to extort/////charge you to become part of this wonderful new way to do what II does already.

 

[Powerguy]

Forget selling Points - they won't transfer with the deeded week.

Your deeded week is worth - what?

I have no idea after 6/15/10 - Marriott won't quote prices per week anymore - they are ZERO.

As a buyer I'd beat the seller over the head that Marriott values their week as ZERO!

Then there is the sticky matter of the membership fee. Let's say that resale weeks can enter the new system for $3,500 and that membership fee doesn't transfer to the new owner. As a buyer I'm going to demand the seller pay for that $3,500 so I can use the week in the new Points system. (I'm simply going to lower my offer, what ever it is, by $3,500 and so will everyone else)


This isn't going to be pretty folks....

Hey Perry. If you can stop your doom and gloom predictions for a moment.........

My question was after Marriott changes their sales program and only sells points would a person who bought into the new points system be able to sell their points privately or would all point transactions have to go thru Marriott? For a comparison how do the other point systems work?