Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[dougp26364]

Here is a post that I found interesting. I value his posts highly and it is based on facts and not speculation.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...-extends-affiliation-interval.html#post382944

let's hope that it will be the best new system of all. The Marriott had enough time to learn from everyone else's mistakes so not make them.

I agree. I believe in that one short post we have better information that what's been speculated by "the sky is falling" or "Marriott is desperate" crowd so worried about this change. I had not considered that this product would likely be based off Marriott's Ritz-Carlton product rather than the AP product. We also haven't taken into consideration the difficulty and time consuming task of getting the new product registered for sale in all states as a reason for the delay in launching this product.

The sky is not falling. The end of the world is not at hand. It's just change and change happens rather frequently in the timeshare world. I remain both excited and optimistic that Marriott will be offering us something of value while at the same time not buying into either the hype of fear mongering sales staff might push to make a sale now.

 

[puckmanfl]

Could you provide some insight into the Ritz Carlton program...

Have no idea how it works...

Let's hope for the "homerun" I would be "ALL in"

 

[dougp26364]

I think I got it...

Let me recap!!!

If I keep a deeded week (decline my invite) my MF's will be as usual!!!

If I accept to convert,it could be a system where I trade/donate my week to Marriott for points (# of points based on value of property) but the MF's /week don't change. My weeks could be deposited into a "trust" where my MF's will be based on #of points owned. In this system a high demand (more points) week will have an increase in MF's, but a low demand week (less points) will have a decrease in MF's???

Do I have it correct????

Maybe, maybe not. DRI has a trust based system. I own two weeks at a DRI resort. I was offered to convert my weeks into their trust based system. If I did this, my MF's would have actually gone UP and, I would have been required to pay an additional trust management fee.

Owners at resorts with lower MF's may see an increase in their MF's in a trust based system while owners at resorts with more expensive MF's may see a lower MF by joining a trust base system. It's a double edged sword depending on the average MF of resort units in the trust. So MF's could either by higher or lower depending upon where you own.

 

[dougp26364]

Could you provide some insight into the Ritz Carlton program...

Have no idea how it works...

Let's hope for the "homerun" I would be "ALL in"

Unfortunately, I've never looked at the Ritz-Carlton program. For that matter I've only given the AP program a passing glance. While it would be interesting to understand the RC program I think it's still best to just wait until the official roll out so we can disect facts rather than speculation.

 

[JimIg23]

Reading the linked post, I still dont see how they wont let in resales (when someone sells their points to someone else not thru Marriott). What does that mean? Is there such a system where they only way to sell your points would be through the TS company (being Marriott)?

 

[SueDonJ]

Reading the linked post, I still dont see how they wont let in resales (when someone sells their points to someone else not thru Marriott). What does that mean? Is there such a system where they only way to sell your points would be through the TS company (being Marriott)?

I'm reading that linked post differently, I think:

The one area that has been completely hush, is whether or not the points will be allowed to transfer via resale (makes me wonder if that could part of the issues with the registration).. Hopefully, the state of Florida will require that transferability be allowed for it to be registered and sold in Florida... Hopefully....

This could mean that a points-based ownership (such as the trust-types mentioned in connection with total conversion of week(s)-based ownership) may not be able to transfer at all through resales. That doesn't make much sense, though - why would Marriott want to be responsible forever for every sale they've made? They'd have to make some provision for taking back points ownerships at least in cases of financial hardship, wouldn't they?

If you read the quote another way, though, it may be referencing a points-overlay system for exchanging week(s)-based ownerships. The OP could be hoping that the overlay could transfer automatically upon external resale of the week, instead of the buyer having to purchase the overlay from Marriott in addition to the week from the seller. That makes more sense, doesn't it?

I dunno. It certainly could be wishful thinking but I don't know how that post fits in to the premise that week(s) owners will have to give up their weeks-based deeds and convert to a total points-based system.

{edited to add} About the laws pertaining to ownership transfers - Marriott managed to write the governing docs in such a way that the MRP-exchange option of developer-sold weeks does not transfer upon resale on the external market. I'd guess that if any new internal exchange system is developed and sold as a similar option, which can be the case if it's a points overlay system, then the laws will allow Marriott to not transfer that option upon resale.

 

[SueDonJ]

Here is a post that I found interesting. I value his posts highly and it is based on facts and not speculation.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...-extends-affiliation-interval.html#post382944

let's hope that it will be the best new system of all. The Marriott had enough time to learn from everyone else's mistakes so not make them.

Marriott sends the fixed week reservation confirmation automatically by emai so nothing is required.

I should have said this sooner - thanks for your posts. Good stuff.

 

[PerryM]

Marriott becomes a Destination Club?

Ritz-Carlton (RC) is a Destination Club (DC) and if Marriott is to become a DC then we are all doomed.

DCs are just about out of business - a business model that failed.

It's been a number of years since I investigated the RCDC but they have the ability to buy any condo and generate Points which are then sold. When I investigated them they were just starting up and couldn't answer any of my questions.

I'll ask the DC guys in another forum here how it works - they might be up to speed.

But this means Marriott abandons timeshares and becomes a DC? Oh well...glad I only own 1 Gold Summit Watch and that's it.

I'll get back if I ever get an answer....

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

"..."

if you recall, RCDC still has regular fractionals in addition to "portfolio"

isnt portfolio like buying worldmark points?

* if marriott "converted" it would probably be the same. TS owners could exchange x amount of time into "DC" if they wanted. (RC fractional owners can exchange 2 weeks. - something you found out...)

* not to mention RCDC is simply using unsold fractional inventory right now...

 

[PerryM]

"..."

if you recall, RCDC still has regular fractionals in addition to "portfolio"

isnt portfolio like buying worldmark points?

* if marriott "converted" it would probably be the same. TS owners could exchange x amount of time into "DC" if they wanted. (RC fractional owners can exchange 2 weeks. - something you found out...)

* not to mention RCDC is simply using unsold fractional inventory right now...

But this involves depositing hundreds of thousands/millions of deeds into a trust - who the heck is going to pay the legal fees to do this?

And why?

That's why I'm saying that if Marriott heads down the RCDC route there are really big problems with Marriott - really big.

 

[davidvel]

Marriott controls the sale of Points and Reservations with the new scheme. It decides who gets what with their super secret computer programs.

Wow, Perry if this is the case then what's the point? If Marriott is this crooked I am surprised I can reserve my week at all each year.

Watch out for those black helicopters over your house tonight, and the men with the white coats ...

 

[taffy19]

June 17!

Mark this date on your calendar. It may be the last day to buy deeds. I assume that it is for everywhere. Training is only going to be three days and not two weeks. Only two months away and we should hear more.

We had a sunset dinner at Longboards tonight as we love this spot so will be back again next year, I hope. I can start counting down the days tomorrow when we get home.

 

[taffy19]

Fixed weeks/units

Susan, we get our confirmation automatically by email but it may be different for fixed week but floating units. Most of them seem to be that way and I don't know if they are handled differently. Hopefully, some other people will let you know.

 

[dougp26364]

Ritz-Carlton (RC) is a Destination Club (DC) and if Marriott is to become a DC then we are all doomed.

DCs are just about out of business - a business model that failed.

It's been a number of years since I investigated the RCDC but they have the ability to buy any condo and generate Points which are then sold. When I investigated them they were just starting up and couldn't answer any of my questions.

I'll ask the DC guys in another forum here how it works - they might be up to speed.

But this means Marriott abandons timeshares and becomes a DC? Oh well...glad I only own 1 Gold Summit Watch and that's it.

I'll get back if I ever get an answer....

Let's face it Perry, no matter what Marriott does, in your eye's, we're all doomed.

 

[PerryM]

What's for dinner?

Wow, Perry if this is the case then what's the point? If Marriott is this crooked I am surprised I can reserve my week at all each year.

Watch out for those black helicopters over your house tonight, and the men with the white coats ...

I'm presenting the worst case scenarios that I can think of - I just believe that Marriott is not a benevolent dictator just a run of the mill timeshare organization that will lie, cheat and steal their way to a sale - just ask their salesreps for the past 4+ years.

Folks are free to present their side - a benevolent dictator.

But don't give up - I sure wont. Come on troops surely you can find goodness and light in what Marriott is about to do...

One thing I'm certain of - if Marriott needs access to our deeds, like depositing them into a trust under their complete control, our goose is cooked; as bad as I've painted the new scheme it will be much worse.

I've been predicting a bursting of the timeshare bubble for many years now - apparently a 25% drop in real estate isn't enough to phase timeshares but if Marriott goes the route of depositing your deeds into their corporation that qualifies as the collapse of timeshares too - we are then witnessing the successor to timeshares.

 

[m61376]

The post about emulating the RC system was interesting. Last year there was a discussion that the RC system was being regarded as a model for the points system which was supposed to be rolled out imminently (imminently meaning last year), but was delayed because the RC points system was considered problematic and disappointing and Marriott realized that it wasn't working.

I don't remember the details, but I am surprised that the idea of the new possible points system emulating the RC program is resurfacing. I'd love to hear more details about the program; all I remember is that is was pretty much a bust.

 

[Dean]

IF Marriott goes the points route, they have a number of choices to make. However, there are a number of systems that work on points and several of those transitioned from weeks to points. There are variable as to how they treat resale buyers and those who owned previous to the points system. It's unlikely Marriott would reinvent the wheel. Look to Wyndham, Worldmark, DVC, Club Intrawest, Bluegreen, Diamond, etc. for your answers.

Some of the assumptions:

• Those that own fixed weeks will continue to get what they paid for at the fees they'd pay otherwise.
• No mixing of inventory.
• That the pool of units available for fixed week owners would be directly related to those that have not converted in that unit type for that week.
• There would be some continued exchange option through II ± RCI but there might or might not be an internal trading preference.
• All owners and all weeks would have some points conversion options.
• The laws of the states where the resorts will come into play as well as the laws where a given sale is made.
• They cannot oversell a given resort, this may happen in MX but it is not going to happen with Marriott.

Some of the choices to be made:

• Points assignment to each resort, unit type and season.
• Whether to have a home resort priortiy or not. DVC does, BG and CI do not.
• Whether to have a unit type priority. I only know of one points resort that does this where you can reserve the unit size and type for a period of time before others could do so.
• Terms and prices of conversion. Needs to be enticing early on.
• Whether to use the points structure as a way to excalate costs by raising points or only raise points for something that offers more value. Example: HP & GO should not be the same points for a 2 BR and the points should vary by view type and season.
• Whether to allow banking/borrowing/transfers. Hard to avoid the first 2 with a points system, the latter is less common.
• Whether to have a generic dues that's spread across all club members or whether to keep them resort specific.
• Whether to have a VIP program and if so, the terms of those options.
• Whether to allow members to use their underlying unit if they are club members. BG and I think Hyatt allow you to keep your given unit if you want for any given year.
• How to handle the variables for resale of points.
• Whether to stay with II or jump to RCI. II has also been rumored to be developing a points system.

I'm sure we could add infinitely to both lists.

There are many potential benefits of a points system but some of those benefits are for the member, some for the system and some for both. The main benefit to the system are that in effect every point sold is potentially a Platinum season point in the eyes of the buyer. Flexibility is the main benefit to the member. Realize though that a points system is inherently more expensive to run than a fixed weeks system and the more flexible it is, the more extra costs are involved. So you have to decide how to handle those costs. Do you spread them to all members or do you do pay to play, most settle somewhere in between. IF a VIP program were to come, relief of the fees are often a bargaining chip.

One thing I'm certain of - if Marriott needs access to our deeds, like depositing them into a trust under their complete control, our goose is cooked; as bad as I've painted the new scheme it will be much worse.

I would disagree that it's a major problem but it would add to the cost of such a program for the paperwork and recording fees. Bluegreen does this successfully and to a degree, DVC functions that way as well though they are RTU.

 

[PerryM]

Is that a paradigm falcon swooping down at me?

IF Marriott goes the points route, they have a number of choices to make. However, there are a number of systems that work on points and several of those transitioned from weeks to points. There are variable as to how they treat resale buyers and those who owned previous to the points system. It's unlikely Marriott would reinvent the wheel. Look to Wyndham, Worldmark, DVC, Club Intrawest, Bluegreen, Diamond, etc. for your answers.

Some of the assumptions:

• Those that own fixed weeks will continue to get what they paid for at the fees they'd pay otherwise.
• No mixing of inventory.
• That the pool of units available for fixed week owners would be directly related to those that have not converted in that unit type for that week.
• There would be some continued exchange option through II ± RCI but there might or might not be an internal trading preference.
• All owners and all weeks would have some points conversion options.
• The laws of the states where the resorts will come into play as well as the laws where a given sale is made.
• They cannot oversell a given resort, this may happen in MX but it is not going to happen with Marriott.

Some of the choices to be made:

• Points assignment to each resort, unit type and season.
• Whether to have a home resort priortiy or not. DVC does, BG and CI do not.
• Whether to have a unit type priority. I only know of one points resort that does this where you can reserve the unit size and type for a period of time before others could do so.
• Terms and prices of conversion. Needs to be enticing early on.
• Whether to use the points structure as a way to excalate costs by raising points or only raise points for something that offers more value. Example: HP & GO should not be the same points for a 2 BR and the points should vary by view type and season.
• Whether to allow banking/borrowing/transfers. Hard to avoid the first 2 with a points system, the latter is less common.
• Whether to have a generic dues that's spread across all club members or whether to keep them resort specific.
• Whether to have a VIP program and if so, the terms of those options.
• Whether to allow members to use their underlying unit if they are club members. BG and I think Hyatt allow you to keep your given unit if you want for any given year.
• How to handle the variables for resale of points.
• Whether to stay with II or jump to RCI. II has also been rumored to be developing a points system.

I'm sure we could add infinitely to both lists.

There are many potential benefits of a points system but some of those benefits are for the member, some for the system and some for both. The main benefit to the system are that in effect every point sold is potentially a Platinum season point in the eyes of the buyer. Flexibility is the main benefit to the member. Realize though that a points system is inherently more expensive to run than a fixed weeks system and the more flexible it is, the more extra costs are involved. So you have to decide how to handle those costs. Do you spread them to all members or do you do pay to play, most settle somewhere in between. IF a VIP program were to come, relief of the fees are often a bargaining chip.

I would disagree that it's a major problem but it would add to the cost of such a program for the paperwork and recording fees. Bluegreen does this successfully and to a degree, DVC functions that way as well though they are RTU.

This is a fantastic summary!

I would be much more positive of a paradigm shift by Marriott if this were 2007 at the heyday of timeshares - full confidence in their ability to sell timeshares and moving past timeshares into new frontiers. Apple and their iPhone and iPad are great examples of this.

However being sucked into a black hole is an entirely different matter...

 

[Dean]

This is a fantastic summary!

I would be much more positive of a paradigm shift by Marriott if this were 2007 at the heyday of timeshares - full confidence in their ability to sell timeshares and moving past timeshares into new frontiers. Apple and their iPhone and iPad are great examples of this.

However being sucked into a black hole is an entirely different matter...

Thanks Perry. A good points system implemented appropriately could be a win-win for most members. However, those on the fringe are likely not going to be happy. I own 5 HH Platinum weeks between GO & Surfwatch, 3 are OF, 1 OS and 1 GV. Other than the GV week, a points system is unlikely to have much appeal to me unless I have the opportunity of using my weeks and view OR trading for points. OTOH, the other 4 weeks I own would fit fairly well for most points systems (all Platinum in HI, Branson and Panama City). Those that own the lowest weeks and at the lowest rated resorts are going to find out just how much their units are actually worth and they may not like the answers.

I've already gone through one conversion, to Bluegreen, and as BocaBum can tell you, I had quite an ordeal. It took me ultimately 5 or 6 years for the event to actually happen with me being willing to sign and pay the entire time. This was complicated by a number of factors including the fact the resort was in Aruba, and it was still worth it though I did have the same issue of having some weeks that I wanted to keep and some I wanted in the club but ultimately I did convert them all. IF Marriott does this like BG did, you give them your deed and they give you a different one for a different week that's in inventory, I doubt they'd do that but if they require an extra points purchase and tie the points to a full week, they might. For me, that would likely be a deal breaker due to what I own with Marriott.

 

[puckmanfl]

Good morning Perry, Doug and Dean

This one is for you!!!

I am niether a pessimist or optimist,just concerned and trying to figure it all out...

Let me see if I get the picture....

points might be the greatest thing ever, but here are my concerns...

Sometime soon, I will be asked to join (for a fee) some sort of "deeds for points" program. Based on some actuarial averaging of "deeds in the trust" or a Perry like Linear Progression analysis, my MF's will either increase, decrease or remain the same . When I ask MVCI about costs (MF's) I will be told "it depends" but I better choose soon because the prices go up and the benefits go down for late arrivals. Depending on my decision I will either be in the new "points" currency": or remain in the "weeks" currency with II. At the time my decision is made, I will have no idea how much inventory will be in either system as I have no idea (just guesswork) as how the other owners are choosing...

Do I have it correct???

 

[PerryM]

It all Depends on leaks....

Good morning Perry, Doug and Dean

This one is for you!!!

I am niether a pessimist or optimist,just concerned and trying to figure it all out...

Let me see if I get the picture....

points might be the greatest thing ever, but here are my concerns...

Sometime soon, I will be asked to join (for a fee) some sort of "deeds for points" program. Based on some actuarial averaging of "deeds in the trust" or a Perry like Linear Progression analysis, my MF's will either increase, decrease or remain the same . When I ask MVCI about costs (MF's) I will be told "it depends" but I better choose soon because the prices go up and the benefits go down for late arrivals. Depending on my decision I will either be in the new "points" currency": or remain in the "weeks" currency with II. At the time my decision is made, I will have no idea how much inventory will be in either system as I have no idea (just guesswork) as how the other owners are choosing...

Do I have it correct???

Bingo!

We will have to wait until June and see what the gory details mean to all of us.

I should imagine that everyday will bring us more and more leaks as this new scheme drags it's sorry butt over the beginning line.

So stock up on adult diapers (Depends) and get ready for rumor spills in the next 6 weeks - I can't wait.

 

[SueDonJ]

Nice job, Dean, thanks. Can you explain how each of the different points systems transfers upon resale, especially in the systems where weeks have been converted to points? Does the underlying week always stay "attached" to the ownership in which case the sale is of a week and not points, or does the ownership get re-deeded to points in which case the sale is of the points? Both? Neither?

I'm still trying to figure out that linked post and how it fits into a weeks-to-points conversion system - if the underlying week does not stay attached to the conversion in some form, and the converted ownership consists solely of points, why would it be necessary to "hope" that points can be transferred upon resale? In this case, wouldn't points be the ONLY thing that could be sold? How could Marriott block points from transferring which would effectively prevent a resale of such a conversion?

 

[dougp26364]

Good morning Perry, Doug and Dean

This one is for you!!!

I am niether a pessimist or optimist,just concerned and trying to figure it all out...

Let me see if I get the picture....

points might be the greatest thing ever, but here are my concerns...

Sometime soon, I will be asked to join (for a fee) some sort of "deeds for points" program. Based on some actuarial averaging of "deeds in the trust" or a Perry like Linear Progression analysis, my MF's will either increase, decrease or remain the same . When I ask MVCI about costs (MF's) I will be told "it depends" but I better choose soon because the prices go up and the benefits go down for late arrivals. Depending on my decision I will either be in the new "points" currency": or remain in the "weeks" currency with II. At the time my decision is made, I will have no idea how much inventory will be in either system as I have no idea (just guesswork) as how the other owners are choosing...

Do I have it correct???

Maybe......maybe not. That's just it. I don't know, Perry doesn't know, no one knows. Nothing has been released. It's all speculation.

Until Marriott release information to the public this is much ado about nothing. Perry's got himself all twisted up about this and I just don't understand that way of thinking. Maybe when Marriott releases the program.....if it releases a program at all.......it might be as bad a Perry's imagination has him thinking. On the other hand, this could be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

What will the MF's be? We don't know. How many points will it take to reserve a week at any given resort? We don't know. Will there be home resort advantage? We don't know. Will it be a trust based ownership or a deeded week worth X number of points? We don't know.

Sure we can look at the RC or AP programs and make a few assumptions and guesses about what Marriott might or might not do. Maybe it will resemble one of those programs or, maybe Marriott will have learned from it's mistakes and this will be an entirely different product.

The thing is, we just don't know. Worry and hand wringing at this point is a perfectly good waste of time. Letting anyone get you upset about it or anxious over it is a waste of time.

The only thing this discussion is good for is the pure sport of speculation. There's nothing wrong with it unless you allow yourself to make decisions based upon smoke and mirrors.

I look at it this way. Marriott has been a solid product for us for a long time. We've been happy with our resorts. We've been happy with our ownership. We've been happy with Marriott. I find it hard to believe Marriott would lay this HUGE egg that some want to believe.

Do I think it will be fantastic for every Marriott owner? No I don't. Do I think the program is going to be the worst thing to ever happen to Marriott or timeshare in general. No I don't. I believe the final analysis will reviel a product that works great for some and not so well for others.

I do know that I feel more secure with the fact that I bought our two Marriott units primarly to use and not exchange. So long as I can use my weeks in the season that I own, I'll probably continue to be a happy Marriott owner. If I bought primarly to exchange, then yes, I'd be nervous. But I'd only be nervous because the rules are changing and I might find I'm no longer in the prime position I was in before the change. THAT is the risk one takes when one buys a timeshare strictly to exchange.



So to answer your question, maybe.....maybe not. Hopefully we'll see in June.

 

[PerryM]

For whom the bell tolls...

Maybe......maybe not. That's just it. I don't know, Perry doesn't know, no one knows. Nothing has been released. It's all speculation.

Until Marriott release information to the public this is much ado about nothing. Perry's got himself all twisted up about this and I just don't understand that way of thinking. Maybe when Marriott releases the program.....if it releases a program at all.......it might be as bad a Perry's imagination has him thinking. On the other hand, this could be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

What will the MF's be? We don't know. How many points will it take to reserve a week at any given resort? We don't know. Will there be home resort advantage? We don't know. Will it be a trust based ownership or a deeded week worth X number of points? We don't know.

Sure we can look at the RC or AP programs and make a few assumptions and guesses about what Marriott might or might not do. Maybe it will resemble one of those programs or, maybe Marriott will have learned from it's mistakes and this will be an entirely different product.

The thing is, we just don't know. Worry and hand wringing at this point is a perfectly good waste of time. Letting anyone get you upset about it or anxious over it is a waste of time.

The only thing this discussion is good for is the pure sport of speculation. There's nothing wrong with it unless you allow yourself to make decisions based upon smoke and mirrors.

I look at it this way. Marriott has been a solid product for us for a long time. We've been happy with our resorts. We've been happy with our ownership. We've been happy with Marriott. I find it hard to believe Marriott would lay this HUGE egg that some want to believe.

Do I think it will be fantastic for every Marriott owner? No I don't. Do I think the program is going to be the worst thing to ever happen to Marriott or timeshare in general. No I don't. I believe the final analysis will reviel a product that works great for some and not so well for others.

I do know that I feel more secure with the fact that I bought our two Marriott units primarly to use and not exchange. So long as I can use my weeks in the season that I own, I'll probably continue to be a happy Marriott owner. If I bought primarly to exchange, then yes, I'd be nervous. But I'd only be nervous because the rules are changing and I might find I'm no longer in the prime position I was in before the change. THAT is the risk one takes when one buys a timeshare strictly to exchange.



So to answer your question, maybe.....maybe not. Hopefully we'll see in June.

With Marriott pushing this rumor for 4+ years I'd bet they think this is a big deal.

My assumption, all along, is that the optimum decision making period will be measured in hours after the announcement - maybe just minutes.

We've all gone through this with Marriott reservations - miss the opening bell by even 15 seconds and your holiday plans just changed.

I'm assuming that Marriott will do the same on the announcement - the "pre-construction" pricing, if there is any, will be snapped up in minutes. The more scenarios we can imagine and review the more prepared we will be to make an informed decision.

Count on me to try to analyze the new product/scheme as soon as it is released and I hope to make a decision within minutes as to what this means to me and what opportunities and pitfalls await me.

That's all I'm doing here - and I imagine the tempo will increase substantially as the opening bell rings - those salesreps can't help themselves but blab what they learn. We have to run that through a filter of what we know about salesreps and try to understand the truth.

Customers deal with truth, salesreps deal with imagination.

 

[Dean]

Good morning Perry, Doug and Dean

This one is for you!!!

I am niether a pessimist or optimist,just concerned and trying to figure it all out...

Let me see if I get the picture....

points might be the greatest thing ever, but here are my concerns...

Sometime soon, I will be asked to join (for a fee) some sort of "deeds for points" program. Based on some actuarial averaging of "deeds in the trust" or a Perry like Linear Progression analysis, my MF's will either increase, decrease or remain the same . When I ask MVCI about costs (MF's) I will be told "it depends" but I better choose soon because the prices go up and the benefits go down for late arrivals. Depending on my decision I will either be in the new "points" currency": or remain in the "weeks" currency with II. At the time my decision is made, I will have no idea how much inventory will be in either system as I have no idea (just guesswork) as how the other owners are choosing...

Do I have it correct???

MF would almost certainly increase with any points system, the issue is how much and what you get for that increase. Not only would you likely not know how much inventory is in points or weeks, it's very likely that the vast majority of inventory will be in off season and lower views. If they let you keep you weeks options under the points structure it likely doesn't matter for direct usage, if not, it matters greatly. Taking the Aruba experience I referred to, the vast majority of conversions and new sales has been in worse unit locations and lower seasons. That's not to say there is no inventory, just that it's skewed. The Fairfield experience is likely the best single comparison as to what to expect with a new points system starts up even if the points system is ultimately different.

Nice job, Dean, thanks. Can you explain how each of the different points systems transfers upon resale, especially in the systems where weeks have been converted to points? Does the underlying week always stay "attached" to the ownership in which case the sale is of a week and not points, or does the ownership get re-deeded to points in which case the sale is of the points? Both? Neither?

I'll also lets others speak to CI, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, etc as I am not versed well enough in those to be certain. For Westin my understanding is the points options do not transfer unless the resort is points only. As you know, with DVC, there are no distinctions between resale and retail currently. BG has evolved while I've been looking/owning. Currently resale buyers don't get the VIP benefits unless they buy direct (which includes their resale company). BG has cut back on their conversion options but BocaBum is the expert in all areas of BG resale. I think Wyndham is the same way where you have to buy qualified to get the VIP options. Since Marriott already has a history of some limitations to resale buyers, I would expect some differentiation.