Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[JimC]

Perry,

Maybe I am missing something. In DVC, each unit has a certain number of points assigned to it based on size of unit, view, location, day of week, time of year. Add the points up for an entire year for each unit in a resort and that is the maximum number of points that can be sold. Points can be reallocated, but the total number of points can not change. A reallocation was done in 1996 and again over the last two years (DVC has annual reallocation limits). I suspect that they very much needed to re-balance demand. How is any of that point inflation? Now if one uses their points at another resort built later it may require more points there then at their home resort for an equivalent stay. Is that what you mean by point inflation?

Each DVC contract has a specific % interest in a designated unit at the resort, which is how the deed is filed. And DVC deeds cannot be subdivided by anyone other then DVC and only if they reacquire it. If our deeded Marriott weeks are converted to points is there a new deed required?

 

[m61376]

But even if they don't sell weeks anymore, only points, the point totals that they have to work with must be supported by the inventory at the resorts. They will still have to file the proper Timeshare Plan and Declaration legal paperwork in the development process. They will not be able to pull points out of thin air and sell one particular interval as "bait" forever. Take a Platinum Oceanfront 2BR Penthouse in Maui's new tower (have no idea if this even exists, it's an example) - they can sell potential owners on the idea of staying in such a unit if they buy enough points to book it with a home resort advantage. But the total points allotted to the resort will be finite, stipulated in the governing docs, and they'll no longer be able to sell at that resort when the allotted points have all been sold. The owners, of course, will face the same limited availability issues that owners of floating weeks face now, meaning the purchase of enough points for that "bait" won't guarantee a particular reservation, but that limitation can be stipulated in the governing docs for a point system exactly the same way as it's spelled out now in the weeks system.

The same "bait" can be used to play up an exchange system based on points instead of weeks. So what? How is that any different from what a sales rep tells you now, that a 3BR unit in a resort has more trade power than a 2BR at the same resort, or that a resort in an island location has more trade power than an inland resort, etc?

I think Perry's point- if I am understanding it correctly, is that Marriott can theoretically be selling the point values assigned to Bronze and even Silver weeks, with the buyer planning on reserving higher demand weeks. Let's say, for arguments sake, that a Plat. week is allocated 100 points at a given resort, a Gold week 80, a Silver 60 and a Bronze 40. Those Platinum weeks sell out first, but Marriott is stuck with Silver and Bronze weeks. A points system makes it simple for Marriott to "sell" another Platinum week by combining the deeded values of a Silver and Bronze even though in reality there aren't any more Plat. weeks to sell.

Of course, when it comes time for reservations, there aren't enough Plat. weeks to go around, but theoretically some will be trading so the house of cards doesn't collapse. What that means, in essence, is that there may be even more people vying for certain prime weeks at resorts where the calendar was already perhaps already a bit skewed, assuming that there was home resort advantage (because I am assuming even if there is home resort advantage, you can combine points from any ownership at the resort, and that seasons will really be moot).

The other part about this is that in a purely points system MF's are being paid per point, not per week. So- in the above example, in reality MF's for the points of a Silver or Bronze value week will be less than the fees for a Plat. value week, whereas now all pay the same MF's. In the weeks system, a Bronze week costs less but the MF's are the same. In a points system, the value of a Bronze week is less, the cost is less, and the MF's are less. Who pays the difference??

 

[PerryM]

Hi...

If points are done properly, it could be great (today I have high positive vibes)

Points can really add some flexibility as it can provide shorter or longer stays than the standard 7 days. It can eliminate the need to "pick up" hotel nights before and after TS stays.

Perhaps it can permit wed-wed stays, thus helping to get better flights with fewer $$$ or FF miles.

Points can help the "plat" high $$$ owner, by eliminating "down trades". In the current week/week system a Presidents ski week owner can't really get equal value, thus will occupy or rent. In this system the plat owner might get 12 days (hypothetically) in Orlando based on point value. This in turn might INCREASE availability of these plat weeks to lesser week owners that want to bank, borrow or combine points...

Perhaps MVCI wants to increase sales by becoming the "best and brightest" in the industry wit h the "best" product (Perry stop laughing)

This is today's dream....

This is fine too - who knows.

I'm simply trying to put my feet in the sandals the head honcho at Marriott and I need to make more money for my stockholders. What ever it takes...

 

[PerryM]

1+1 = (Salesreps, fill in the answer that makes the sale)

Perry,

Maybe I am missing something. In DVC, each unit has a certain number of points assigned to it based on size of unit, view, location, day of week, time of year. Add the points up for an entire year for each unit in a resort and that is the maximum number of points that can be sold. Points can be reallocated, but the total number of points can not change. A reallocation was done in 1996 and again over the last two years (DVC has annual reallocation limits). I suspect that they very much needed to re-balance demand. How is any of that point inflation? Now if one uses their points at another resort built later it may require more points there then at their home resort for an equivalent stay. Is that what you mean by point inflation?

Each DVC contract has a specific % interest in a designated unit at the resort, which is how the deed is filed. And DVC deeds cannot be subdivided by anyone other then DVC and only if they reacquire it. If our deeded Marriott weeks are converted to points is there a new deed required?

You are absolutely correct in your example of Disney and the same is true for WorldMark and all the other Point systems that actually sell Points. The various states real estate laws get involved.

But Marriott is not going to do this - they still will sell deeded weeks that are subject to real estate laws and then instantly deposit the Points generated into the new sales scheme/exchange system where real estate laws have nothing to say. But I'm no lawyer and this is just an assumption on my part.

If true 1+1 can equal anything the salesreps wants it to be. Point calendars need not obeying any mathematical laws they simply must be a sales tool.

An example might be where Marriott has set up the Points calendar for upcoming year and that number will be smaller than next year when Marriott could easily devalue Points by simply demanding more Points next year - your Points remain the same from last year's sale.

Marriott can easily justify inflation and Points readjustment to reflect supply and demand - all the members will know is that they need to buy more Points - the reason for the new sales scheme.

You will all agree to all of this by signing the 50 page document dumped in front of you with the red letters on the first page saying:

Rules subject to change without notice​

Hell I'd make folks initial that statement if I were Marriott. What are you going to do? You'll initial and sign.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Now if one uses their points at another resort built later it may require more points there then at their home resort for an equivalent stay. Is that what you mean by point inflation? ...

It seems that's one definition of point inflation being discussed in all these related threads. But Marriott's resorts are not all of equal quality, and the better (usually newer) resorts, views and high-demand seasons cost more to purchase. They should have higher trade value in II's exchange system, or at least they're marketed that way now. So points inflation in this sense will allow a more equitable exchange value than II's current system, which pretty much guarantees trade-downs for those "superior" weeks (and trade-ups for inferior weeks) far more often than any "like-for-like" trades.

Another definition that Perry seems to be introducing is that Marriott will somehow be able to sell an infinite number of points because they won't have to account for points related to resort intervals. Like you I don't see how that can be, if you contrast and compare with other points systems such as DVC.

 

[PerryM]

It seems that's one definition of point inflation being discussed in all these related threads. But Marriott's resorts are not all of equal quality, and the better (usually newer) resorts, views and high-demand seasons cost more to purchase. They should have higher trade value in II's exchange system, or at least they're marketed that way now. So points inflation in this sense will allow a more equitable exchange value than II's current system, which pretty much guarantees trade-downs for those "superior" weeks (and trade-ups for inferior weeks) far more often than any "like-for-like" trades.

Another definition that Perry seems to be introducing is that Marriott will somehow be able to sell an infinite number of points because they won't have to account for points related to resort intervals. Like you I don't see how that can be, if you contrast and compare with other points systems such as DVC.

Not at all - Points generated at the time of sale are loosely related to the underlying week sold at the resort. Once generated these Points remain intact and will never change in the owner's account.

However the Points demanded for reservations will change all the time.

That's what I'm saying.

Marriott will be able to shift Points around to reflect reality - like 4th of July week at MOC being more expensive as the 1st week in November - they will have no choice. Initially they might be the same but the Points calendar for each resort will be dynamic and increase, as a net overall, to reflect inflation and anything else Marriott wants.

The owners will simply ask themselves "How much does it cost to buy more Points" - the ONLY reason for Marriott getting into the Points exchange business instead of selling timeshare weeks outright.

 

[SueDonJ]

Not at all - Points generated at the time of sale are loosely related to the underlying week sold at the resort. Once generated these Points remain intact and will never change in the owner's account.

However the Points demanded for reservations will change all the time.

That's what I'm saying.

Marriott will be able to shift Points around to reflect reality - like 4th of July week at MOC being more expensive as the 1st week in November - they will have no choice. Initially they might be the same but the Points calendar for each resort will be dynamic and increase, as a net overall, to reflect inflation and anything else Marriott wants.

The owners will simply ask themselves "How much does it cost to buy more Points" - the ONLY reason for Marriott getting into the Points exchange business instead of selling timeshare weeks outright.

Perry, the laws that DVC and other point systems follow require that the total points available at a resort for purchase must correlate to the total intervals available to reserve, and that the reservation requirements must never exceed that total allotment in any given use year. Marriott will NOT be able to increase reservation point requirements across the board at any resort, if such increases will result in a points total greater than the number allotted to that resort and stipulated in the governing docs.

What you're saying here simply cannot happen ... "Initially they might be the same but the Points calendar for each resort will be dynamic and increase, as a net overall, to reflect inflation and anything else Marriott wants."

Now this can happen, so long as a point increase for demand of a certain interval is offset by a point decrease of another interval ... "Marriott will be able to shift Points around to reflect reality - like 4th of July week at MOC being more expensive as the 1st week in November"

***

I have no idea how all of this translates to whatever new points exchange system Marriott may introduce, whether we'll be required to give up our weeks-based deeds for points-based deeds, whether it will be a points-overlay system for existing weeks-based deeds combined with all new sales being points-based, whether it will be something else entirely, how m/f will fit into whatever system it turns out to be .... none of that is certain, and there are way too many possibilities for us to say definitively what our choices will be. But what we can do is speculate based on what's known from current timeshare systems, and it doesn't help us at all if we throw out ideas that simply cannot happen.

 

[PerryM]

Mommy, I hate math...

I've made some assumptions that I'm not sure I've discussed, here is one:

Points generated by buying or entering timeshare weeks will show up as Points in the owner's account, e.g. 50,000 Points.

However, Points need not show up on the Reservation Calendar - I've just assumed that you will never see the actual Point value for a day anywhere.

I'm assuming that Marriott is going to release a state-of-the-art reservation system that never shows a Point anywhere! You simply browse the various calendars of various resorts and if there is availability and you have enough Points the day/week will show up in bright lights, if not the day will be dim.

That way Marriott never has to worry about folks keeping track of the Points in a year for a resort - they won't have enough information to be a problem.

There probably will be a button you can click to say "If you had 5,000 Point more here's what you would see" and a handy way to get in touch with a salesrep if you decide to buy more Points.

Folks, you don't think a sales tool is going to be anything but a sales tool do you?

 

[SueDonJ]

I've made some assumptions that I'm not sure I've discussed, here is one:

Points generated by buying or entering timeshare weeks will show up as Points in the owner's account, e.g. 50,000 Points.

However, Points need not show up on the Reservation Calendar - I've just assumed that you will never see the actual Point value for a day anywhere.

I'm assuming that Marriott is going to release a state-of-the-art reservation system that never shows a Point anywhere! You simply browse the various calendars of various resorts and if there is availability and you have enough Points the day/week will show up in bright lights, if not the day will be dim.

That way Marriott never has to worry about folks keeping track of the Points in a year for a resort - they won't have enough information to be a problem.

There probably will be a button you can click to say "If you had 5,000 Point more here's what you would see" and a handy way to get in touch with a salesrep if you decide to buy more Points.

Folks, you don't think a sales tool is going to be anything but a sales tool do you?

So how will you as the owner keep track of how many points you have available? You're given 50K that show in your account at the beginning of your use year. You browse those bright lights and click to reserve. Now what? Won't your point total change to reflect a deduction for however many points that reservation cost?

I find it really hard to believe that there is not a legal requirement for any timeshare company to disclose to its owners how much it costs to utilize its system(s), whether that cost is in dollars or points or bananas.

 

[timeos2]

Points inflation myth

Perry,

Maybe I am missing something. In DVC, each unit has a certain number of points assigned to it based on size of unit, view, location, day of week, time of year. Add the points up for an entire year for each unit in a resort and that is the maximum number of points that can be sold. Points can be reallocated, but the total number of points can not change. A reallocation was done in 1996 and again over the last two years (DVC has annual reallocation limits). I suspect that they very much needed to re-balance demand. How is any of that point inflation? Now if one uses their points at another resort built later it may require more points there then at their home resort for an equivalent stay. Is that what you mean by point inflation?

Each DVC contract has a specific % interest in a designated unit at the resort, which is how the deed is filed. And DVC deeds cannot be subdivided by anyone other then DVC and only if they reacquire it. If our deeded Marriott weeks are converted to points is there a new deed required?

The myth of "points inflation" is always thrown into any points discussion by those that don't like / understand how a good points system works. It works as you state. And most work very well.

 

[PerryM]

So how will you as the owner keep track of how many points you have available? You're given 50K that show in your account at the beginning of your use year. You browse those bright lights and click to reserve. Now what? Won't your point total change to reflect a deduction for however many points that reservation cost?

I find it really hard to believe that there is not a legal requirement for any timeshare company to disclose to its owners how much it costs to utilize its system(s), whether that cost is in dollars or points or bananas.

Marriott could easily incorporate travel into this too - 2 round trip airline tickets might be a button you click and the days highlighted will change. Same with car rentals - a button with a drop down box for type of car would be a choice.

Sales sales sales is what this system is all about - if Marriott doesn't do this then they just aren't making enough money for their stockholders.

Sure, after you make a reservation, get airline tickets, a car rental your balance might be 12,445 but what does that mean? It means you need to buy more Points!

I have no idea how all this will actually work - just what I would do if I designed this sales system to maximize the Marriott's stockholders wealth and not tick off too many Marriott owners.

 

[James1975NY]

Marriott could easily incorporate travel into this too - 2 round trip airline tickets might be a button you click and the days highlighted will change. Same with car rentals - a button with a drop down box for type of car would be a choice.

Sales sales sales is what this system is all about - if Marriott doesn't do this then they just aren't making enough money for their stockholders.

Sure, after you make a reservation, get airline tickets, a car rental your balance might be 12,445 but what does that mean? It means you need to buy more Points!

I have no idea how all this will actually work - just what I would do if I designed this sales system to maximize the Marriott's stockholders wealth and not tick off too many Marriott owners.

Perry, all timeshare models are designed with sales in mind. From your feedback and commentary, I get the impression that you feel points are unique with that respect.

- Want to travel next year but you have an EVEN year ownership? Well, buy another timeshare.
- Want to travel two weeks per year but you only own one? Buy another timeshare.
- Want to have access to reservations 13-months in advance, you need two timeshares.
- You own at resort XYZ and find it next to impossible to get to resort ABC? Buy at resort ABC.

Points schemes are no different than timeshare as it exists today. Its all about how to put buyers/ownres in a position to "need" more.

 

[PerryM]

Perry, all timeshare models are designed with sales in mind. From your feedback and commentary, I get the impression that you feel points are unique with that respect.

- Want to travel next year but you have an EVEN year ownership? Well, buy another timeshare.
- Want to travel two weeks per year but you only own one? Buy another timeshare.
- Want to have access to reservations 13-months in advance, you need two timeshares.
- You own at resort XYZ and find it next to impossible to get to resort ABC? Buy at resort ABC.

Points schemes are no different than timeshare as it exists today. Its all about how to put buyers/ownres in a position to "need" more.

Where Points is truly unique, a virtual star is selling dreams over and over again without any accountability from the developer.

WorldMark is a great timeshare system that I belong to. I've been to just 1 WM sales pitch (They are way too stingy handing out the free prizes) and that was at Lake Of The Ozarks just 2 hours from our house.

Basically WM only talked about holiday weeks - how many Credits (Points) you need and all the goodies if you buy from them. 4th of July is a biggie here in Missouri down at LOTO.

Of course if you wait until June 4 to book your 4th of July week (13 months in advance) all units are gone - what happened? Well WM lets you reserve 8 day reservations and smart folks did that on June 3, the even smarter folks reserved 9 days on June 2, so by the time June 4th showed up all units were already booked.

This is super saturating the holiday weeks - Marriott is going to do the same exact thing with Points. They will only talk about what Ma and Pa are interested in - 4th of July in Branson, New Year's week in Park City , President's week in Maui.

This is the key difference between what Marriott will be selling versus what they actually have in unsold inventory.

I don't know how members will solve the problem of everyone wanting to reserve New Year's week at Mountainside - I doubt 8 day reservations will be allowed - 2 weeks is probably what will happen - Christmas and New Years and heck maybe 1 week in front of that.

Granted the old fashion week system can hobble in and do some of what Points is good at but Points is far superior in flexibility which is what folks seem to want form timeshares.

And to think all of this could not be done without your week being used to lure Ma and Pa into the new exchange system (Wonder if we can get part of the commission?)

 

[SueDonJ]

Where Points is truly unique, a virtual star is selling dreams over and over again without any accountability from the developer.

That's where you're wrong, and where your theories lose all credibility. There is ALWAYS accountability from the developer.

Selling the possibility of being able to reserve the best interval of a timeshare isn't unique to points systems. Holiday time periods within a usage season will always be in higher demand than other time periods in that season, and reservations are always subject to availability. (The only system that offers any guarantee of availability is a fixed week system, but even with some of those an owner might lose the ability to use his/her week in a given year if s/he doesn't follow the requirements for reserving the week.)

This is super saturating the holiday weeks - Marriott is going to do the same exact thing with Points. They will only talk about what Ma and Pa are interested in - 4th of July in Branson, New Year's week in Park City , President's week in Maui.

This is the key difference between what Marriott will be selling versus what they actually have in unsold inventory.

Where you may have a point is where you mention unsold inventory. In a weeks-based system Marriott cannot sell more of a certain unit/week interval than exist in the usage calendar, regardless of whether other different certain week/unit intervals at that resort remain in developer inventory. In a points-based system the only limitation is the total number of points allotted to the resort. In both systems, though, reservations are "subject to availability" and the last buyer in either system prior to sell-out (of the season in a weeks-based system or total allotment in a points-based system) has exactly the same chances as the first and every buyer to reserve a high-demand interval.

 

[PerryM]

All for one, and one for one....

That's where you're wrong, and where your theories lose all credibility. There is ALWAYS accountability from the developer.

Selling the possibility of being able to reserve the best interval of a timeshare isn't unique to points systems. Holiday time periods within a usage season will always be in higher demand than other time periods in that season, and reservations are always subject to availability. (The only system that offers any guarantee of availability is a fixed week system, but even with some of those an owner might lose the ability to use his/her week in a given year if s/he doesn't follow the requirements for reserving the week.)



Where you may have a point is where you mention unsold inventory. In a weeks-based system Marriott cannot sell more of a certain unit/week interval than exist in the usage calendar, regardless of whether other different certain week/unit intervals at that resort remain in developer inventory. In a points-based system the only limitation is the total number of points allotted to the resort. In both systems, though, reservations are "subject to availability" and the last buyer in either system prior to sell-out (of the season in a weeks-based system or total allotment in a points-based system) has exactly the same chances as the first and every buyer to reserve a high-demand interval.

OK, lets say that tomorrow Marriott introduces their sales scheme/exchange system and they have NO unsold inventory - not one unit of developer inventory is left today.

Today, what can Marriott sell? Nothing - the salesreps have nothing in inventory so they go home and wait for tomorrow.

That's a week based system built on deeds. Marriott is SOL.

Tomorrow the balloons are up and the salesreps are busy selling Points. Over night Marriott bought 1,000 Bronze weeks from Summit Watch at $1,500 a pop.

What are the salesreps selling? Why New Year's week at MountainSide and 4th of July in Maui. Both need 50,000 Points and Marriott has valued a Bronze week at Summit Watch at 25,000 Points so they are selling a Platinum Package of 50,000 for $150,000 and a MF of $2,000.

Nothing wrong with that.

Oh, where do they get the MountainSide and Maui holiday weeks? Why from all the folks depositing their weeks for Point packages.

On the day you can reserve New Year's week at MountainSide just 1 owner there deposited the week since Marriott gave them a special deal of 75,000 Points just for them for that week.

Can't wait to see which owner is going to snag that MountainSide.

This is what's so horrendous with this system - its all based on duplicity and there is no Point accountability.

I'm not saying that this is what Marriott is going to do just what could be done if they decide to and I don't know if any laws are violated - folks are exchanging into Summit Watch like crazy in Bronze season.

 

[SueDonJ]

Well, first off your premise isn't believable because Marriott does have inventory and plenty of it from the resorts still in developer sales mode. They can also add inventory at any time from weeks owners who join the new points system and through exercising ROFR.

Beyond all that though, your premise seems to be that the only flaw with a new points system will be that there isn't enough inventory to satisfy the owners who want to use their purchase to stay in the higher-quality resorts during the higher-demand time periods. Well guess what? That flaw exists now for owners who try to use their own weeks to reserve high-demand weeks in season at their own resorts, as well as in II's exchange system.

Points aren't your problem, and accountability isn't your problem. Limited availability for high-demand time periods is your problem and that will always exist in pretty much every floating usage system.

 

[kschauberger]

We are all aware that Marriott sales have declined over the years like most home sales across the US. Face it, lose your home or buy a timeshare. Unfortunately with the housing crisis and unemployment being at a high, there are I am sure a lot of foreclosures in the Marriott system that now Marriott is turning and reselling again. It is hard to say how many are being resold by them, but the point system helps them tremendously in selling all the excess properties. They are only fighting to survive. As for the devaluing of our timeshares in monetary value, we all should know buying a timeshare is like buying a car, the minute you buy it it is now worth half the cost if not less. And in the points if gone to, I would assume they give the points valued on location and season. I would expect a platinum week in maui to go higher then Orlando gold, or silver.

 

[PerryM]

Are we there yet???

Well, first off your premise isn't believable because Marriott does have inventory and plenty of it from the resorts still in developer sales mode. They can also add inventory at any time from weeks owners who join the new points system and through exercising ROFR.

Beyond all that though, your premise seems to be that the only flaw with a new points system will be that there isn't enough inventory to satisfy the owners who want to use their purchase to stay in the higher-quality resorts during the higher-demand time periods. Well guess what? That flaw exists now for owners who try to use their own weeks to reserve high-demand weeks in season at their own resorts, as well as in II's exchange system.

Points aren't your problem, and accountability isn't your problem. Limited availability for high-demand time periods is your problem and that will always exist in pretty much every floating usage system.

I'll try again.

All Marriott has to do is have 1 - one - uno - of each holiday week at each resort to sell 10,000 memberships of each! 10,000 sales of Week 52's at MountainSide, 10,000 sales of 4th of July week at MOC, etc. They don't have to have a single week in their inventory to sell all these dreams.

Points have 2 meanings 1) Currency to make exchanges 2) Membership level.

Imagine the pressure of having 45,000 Points and Platinum level is 50,000 Points - lucky there will be a way to buy a Point Package near that level.

Up until now Marriott could not take advantage of the existing owner's property, they can with the new scheme. They don't need to own it to sell it.

This is radically different than II - they have their wimpy Gold level which I guess has some meaning but folks don't do crazy things to get it.

As long as everyone realizes that this is a sales tool and a poor substitute for II then I've done my job right now.

Can't wait for the day it is released and see just how good a sales tool it is.

 

[cruisin]

I'll try again.

All Marriott has to do is have 1 - one - uno - of each holiday week at each resort to sell 10,000 memberships of each! 10,000 sales of Week 52's at MountainSide, 10,000 sales of 4th of July week at MOC, etc. They don't have to have a single week in their inventory to sell all these dreams.

Points have 2 meanings 1) Currency to make exchanges 2) Membership level.

Imagine the pressure of having 45,000 Points and Platinum level is 50,000 Points - lucky there will be a way to buy a Point Package near that level.

Up until now Marriott could not take advantage of the existing owner's property, they can with the new scheme. They don't need to own it to sell it.


This is radically different than II - they have their wimpy Gold level which I guess has some meaning but folks don't do crazy things to get it.

As long as everyone realizes that this is a sales tool and a poor substitute for II then I've done my job right now.

Can't wait for the day it is released and see just how good a sales tool it is.

It will be a salesman's dream no doubt about it, all the hottest weeks that Marriott sold out of long ago, can be resold as points, everybody will have the chance to book the very best week using points sold from the New Branson expansion.

I heard a salesman say that demand for Branson is going to explode, and Marriott wants to be ready for all that demand, and they will base the new point valuations at Branson on the forecasted explosion.

 

[m61376]

Points aren't your problem, and accountability isn't your problem. Limited availability for high-demand time periods is your problem and that will always exist in pretty much every floating usage system.

But isn't the fact that, whereas in the current system you may have every Platinum owner vying for a few higher demand weeks in the season, theoretically even more owners (in Perry's example Bronze week owners combining their points) will now also be vying for those same weeks?

Although he does portray a doomsday scenario, I have to agree that Marriott is likely to sell the dream of those premium week reservations over and over again, and at the end of the day a lot of people are going to fall short.

 

[dougp26364]

I'm still trying to figure out why we're all still speculating and why one person is so worried about all of this. The fact appears to be that Marriott is going to make changes. If that's true, then the second fact is there's nothing any of us can do until the new system is released. At that point we can begin to disect it from the facts to decide if/when it's a good thing and if/when it's a bad thing.

Since our first purchase in 1998, change has happened. There's no stopping it and you have no control over it. Worrying about it is a waste of time. Frequent posts with the belief the sky is falling doesn't help.

It might be fun to speculate a little bit about what the present under the Christmas tree might be but, when it causes to much anxiety it's not really a good thing. If something like this was going to make me a nervous wreck, there's no way I'd continue to own timeshare. I'd get out now.

Personally, I kind of excited that I'll have another option to consider. I look forward to getting the information, looking it over and seeing if what I have now works best for our needs or if this something new will give us a few more advantages we've never had with Marriott before. We own three weeks that are in two points based systems. There's a whole lot of manipulating I can do with those points and making vacation plans with those programs has been much more exciting that the old deposit a week and hope system. Unlike some, I don't have the anxiety about this potential change. Instead I feel an exileration that I have something new to sink my teeth into.

If there's any worry it's that I'll be dissapointed and will find myself remaining with what I currently own. In the end that's not really a bad option either as we purchased our units to use. One we've used every year except once since we purchased in 2001. The other we've done two request first exchanges and we use the one bedroom LO for deposit first exchanges. If I can keep those exchanges within the Marriott system then that great. If not, there are plenty of other quality resorts worthy of exchanging into.

 

[PerryM]

Metamorphosis is a sight to behold...

I'm still trying to figure out why we're all still speculating and why one person is so worried about all of this. The fact appears to be that Marriott is going to make changes. If that's true, then the second fact is there's nothing any of us can do until the new system is released. At that point we can begin to disect it from the facts to decide if/when it's a good thing and if/when it's a bad thing.

Since our first purchase in 1998, change has happened. There's no stopping it and you have no control over it. Worrying about it is a waste of time. Frequent posts with the belief the sky is falling doesn't help.

It might be fun to speculate a little bit about what the present under the Christmas tree might be but, when it causes to much anxiety it's not really a good thing. If something like this was going to make me a nervous wreck, there's no way I'd continue to own timeshare. I'd get out now.

Personally, I kind of excited that I'll have another option to consider. I look forward to getting the information, looking it over and seeing if what I have now works best for our needs or if this something new will give us a few more advantages we've never had with Marriott before. We own three weeks that are in two points based systems. There's a whole lot of manipulating I can do with those points and making vacation plans with those programs has been much more exciting that the old deposit a week and hope system. Unlike some, I don't have the anxiety about this potential change. Instead I feel an exileration that I have something new to sink my teeth into.

If there's any worry it's that I'll be dissapointed and will find myself remaining with what I currently own. In the end that's not really a bad option either as we purchased our units to use. One we've used every year except once since we purchased in 2001. The other we've done two request first exchanges and we use the one bedroom LO for deposit first exchanges. If I can keep those exchanges within the Marriott system then that great. If not, there are plenty of other quality resorts worthy of exchanging into.

Well we can debate Marriott's 4+ year old rumor and get ready.

• Some, like the lawyers, will be busy finding victims and filing lawsuits - the quicker they do the better for them.
  
• Some will want to take advantage of immediate lowering of resale rates and then decide if they want to buy some depressed units.
  
• Some may want to take advantage of the "pre-construction" pricing that Marriott will offer and probably have a 1 hour window to make a decision.
  
• Some will twiddle their thumbs and wait until the dust has settled and kick themselves in the butt.

There are many reasons to prepare for one of the largest and denominate timeshare developers to shed the old timeshare model and emerge with a completely new and different way of selling timeshares (at least for them).

So to those waiting to see what will emerge from the metamorphosis you will have a very short time window to make intelligent decisions before you fall into the pool of Marriott owners that are always a day late and dollar short.

P.S.
The real kick in the head will be when we realize that for 4+ years the Marriott salesreps were trying to do us a favor and warn us and we sat on our hands...

 

[SueDonJ]

But isn't the fact that, whereas in the current system you may have every Platinum owner vying for a few higher demand weeks in the season, theoretically even more owners (in Perry's example Bronze week owners combining their points) will now also be vying for those same weeks?

Although he does portray a doomsday scenario, I have to agree that Marriott is likely to sell the dream of those premium week reservations over and over again, and at the end of the day a lot of people are going to fall short.

I'm still not understanding how selling the dream will be any different, considering that's how the system is sold now and it doesn't allow for every owner who has purchased whatever-it-takes to get high-demand time weeks, to actually GET those high-demand weeks. Availability is an issue and always will be. Within the current system it's already an ongoing problem at every resort, more pronounced at resorts where Platinum seasons are extended (Hawaii, etc) and those owners who bought the dream have adjusted - why won't owners who might convert to a points system be able to adjust?

As far as being able to convert non-premium (Bronze, Silver) weeks to points and then combine them for exchanges into premium weeks, I expect owners of those premium weeks to have some sort of reservation advantage whether they convert to points or not. (I know we don't have all the details but I'd be very surprised if there isn't a home resort priority.) But even if they don't, how often do you think an owner of non-premium weeks is going to choose to combine what might get her/him two or more weeks time of vacation usage at a satisfactory resort into only one week at a premium resort? Every three years? Five? I know I wouldn't consistently sacrifice vacation time for higher quality, not when my purchase decision was made based on staying at my home resort. And I don't think that too many owners under the MVCI umbrella purchased non-premium weeks with the intent to always trade up. Sure, TUGgers do it regularly, but TUGgers represent only a minority of MVCI owners.

At the root of it all, every potential owner simply cannot afford what it costs to BUY the ultimate dream, despite the fact that Marriott reps try their best to sell it to every prospect who comes through their sales offices. Whether they introduce points or not the same natural economic conditions will prevent folks from purchasing whatever the "premium package" might be.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Personally, I kind of excited that I'll have another option to consider. I look forward to getting the information, looking it over and seeing if what I have now works best for our needs or if this something new will give us a few more advantages we've never had with Marriott before. We own three weeks that are in two points based systems. There's a whole lot of manipulating I can do with those points and making vacation plans with those programs has been much more exciting that the old deposit a week and hope system. Unlike some, I don't have the anxiety about this potential change. Instead I feel an exileration that I have something new to sink my teeth into.

If there's any worry it's that I'll be dissapointed and will find myself remaining with what I currently own. In the end that's not really a bad option either as we purchased our units to use. One we've used every year except once since we purchased in 2001. The other we've done two request first exchanges and we use the one bedroom LO for deposit first exchanges. If I can keep those exchanges within the Marriott system then that great. If not, there are plenty of other quality resorts worthy of exchanging into.

Yes and yes.

 

[puckmanfl]

Lets look at the often mentioned Bronze Summitt Watch week...

Perhaps this unit will be worth 500 points. If it takes 1500 points for a Plat week exchange somewhere, the owner can combine, borrow and bank points but the owner will be consuming THREE Maintenance fees to do it . Is this cost effective, as it might be cheaper to rent???