Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[SueDonJ]

Lets look at the often mentioned Bronze Summitt Watch week...

Perhaps this unit will be worth 500 points. If it takes 1500 points for a Plat week exchange somewhere, the owner can combine, borrow and bank points but the owner will be consuming THREE Maintenance fees to do it . Is this cost effective, as it might be cheaper to rent???

And in addition to whether rental fees might not exceed three weeks worth of m/f, if the owner is used to three weeks of vacation time away is s/he going to be satisfied with only one? I wouldn't, which would mean that I'd be paying even more money for two more weeks. All that just to get one week in a premium resort/week? Maybe one time for the trip of a lifetime that would end up costing a fortune in non-cost effective timeshare use as well as rentals ...

 

[PerryM]

I'm still not understanding how selling the dream will be any different, considering that's how the system is sold now and it doesn't allow for every owner who has purchased whatever-it-takes to get high-demand time weeks, to actually GET those high-demand weeks. Availability is an issue and always will be. Within the current system it's already an ongoing problem at every resort, more pronounced at resorts where Platinum seasons are extended (Hawaii, etc) and those owners who bought the dream have adjusted - why won't owners who might convert to a points system be able to adjust?

As far as being able to convert non-premium (Bronze, Silver) weeks to points and then combine them for exchanges into premium weeks, I expect owners of those premium weeks to have some sort of reservation advantage whether they convert to points or not. (I know we don't have all the details but I'd be very surprised if there isn't a home resort priority.) But even if they don't, how often do you think an owner of non-premium weeks is going to choose to combine what might get her/him two or more weeks time of vacation usage at a satisfactory resort into only one week at a premium resort? Every three years? Five? I know I wouldn't consistently sacrifice vacation time for higher quality, not when my purchase decision was made based on staying at my home resort. And I don't think that too many owners under the MVCI umbrella purchased non-premium weeks with the intent to always trade up. Sure, TUGgers do it regularly, but TUGgers represent only a minority of MVCI owners.

At the root of it all, every potential owner simply cannot afford what it costs to BUY the ultimate dream, despite the fact that Marriott reps try their best to sell it to every prospect who comes through their sales offices. Whether they introduce points or not the same natural economic conditions will prevent folks from purchasing whatever the "premium package" might be.

Huge huge difference.

In order for the salesrep to paint the dream of skiing New Year's eve at Mountainside Marriott must actually have a Week 52 MountainSide in inventory to sell. Today there is a good chance they don't have one.

With the new sales scheme that's all the sales rep will talk about:

"Hell you need 50,000 Points to ski New Year's week at Mountainside - I happen to have 50,000 Points in a super package in inventory - sign here"

"Hey you, over there, want to ski New Year's week slope side at Park City - I can sell you the Points to get there".

The sales rep will never tell them that he sold 200 Week 52's a MountainSide so far this year....

Marriott will use our inventory, that we the owners own, to sell week 52 at every Marriott all day long 365 days a year.

 

[SueDonJ]

Huge huge difference.

In order for the salesrep to paint the dream of skiing New Year's eve at Mountainside Marriott must actually have a Week 52 MountainSide in inventory to sell. Today there is a good chance they don't have one.

With the new sales scheme that's all the sales rep will talk about:

"Hell you need 50,000 Points to ski New Year's week at Mountainside - I happen to have 50,000 Points in a super package in inventory - sign here"

"Hey you, over there, want to ski New Year's week slope side at Park City - I can sell you the Points to get there".

The sales rep will never tell them that he sold 200 Week 52's a MountainSide so far this year....

Marriott will use our inventory, that we the owners own, to sell week 52 at every Marriott all day long 365 days a year.

Perry, here you go again with the idea that they can sell some unlimited number of points forever and ever and ever and ever amen. They can't. They can only sell the number of points that equal the total allotted to the resort and stipulated in the governing docs (based on factors that have been explained to you over and over in this thread.) In order for your example here to be logical then Mountainside cannot be allotted any less than the 50K times 200 already sold - 10M. I haven't seen Mountainside and have no idea how many units are there or how they are configured, but eventually that resort's points allotment will be SOLD OUT. Even if the sales rep is selling based on the premise that points at any resort can be used at any other without a home resort advantage (which we don't know to be the case,) the sales rep will be required to disclose usage provisions and the buyer will realize that demand will be a huge factor to consider.

I expect a home resort advantage. But let's assume your idea is how it works and there isn't one - points are points. I still don't understand how that's any different from how the current system works now. Take a look at a resort where Platinum season extends throughout the year - they can sell 52 weeks times as many villas at the resort. For example, every potential owner can be sold on Christmas Week in Hawaii at Kauai Beach Club but only as many owners as villa units can reserve it. Another example - SurfWatch has 10 3BR oceanvista units and Platinum season extends for 13 weeks. That means the sales reps can sell the dream of the July 4th holiday premium week in one of those villas 130 times over, but only 10 owners in a given year will actually GET the dream.

So whether you're dealing with a home resort advantage or not, it all comes down to supply and demand based on limited availability. That makes your argument about "selling the dream" irrelevant in the argument of whether a points system could be better or worse than a weeks system.

 

[csalter2]

Change and Fear Resonates on this Thread

I am with Dougp about the fact that there is too much speculation. In fact over a year ago when I stated to wait and see what comes out before everyone got too worked about who knows what, people on this board felt that it was good to speculate. I don't think so much is good, because newbie's that read this thread get two things. One that points are bad and two Marriott is not to be trusted. Both of which are not necessarily true.

What is true is that change is not a comfortable element of life for people. PerryM it is very obvious to me that you don't like change. You seem to already have it in your mind that you are going to get screwed. You have dominated this thread with negatives about what may be and Marriott. This is because you believe you may not be able to get what you used to get. Well maybe you should not have gotten what you were supposed to get in the first place and your afraid that those privelges you were not really entitled to will no longer be there for you to get. I feel like your getting upset because you have been used to buying a coach seat but you had been upgraded to first class so frequently that you feel you are entitled to first class and cause a stink when they don't give it to you but you really are supposed to be in coac because that's what you paid for.

Those of you who have not been a part of a points system may feel uncomfortable because you don't know what the reservations possibilities are like or the devaluation in points is a concerned. Points are not a problem. The problem is when you don't have enough of them. The point value of the resorts at DRI have not changed since it bought Sunterra and Sunterra had not changed their points values at their resorts for years. Now DRI did make some major renovations and upgrades to totally change some suites in some of their resorts and then increased the point totals. However, you can still book the same size unit that will have been upgraded however without major renovations, for the same point values as you had before. An example would be if you could get a 1 bdrm at a resort for 8000 points before a major overall in which the unit was renovated and upgraded and changed completey, it may now be valued at 9000 points. However, there are still 1 bedrooms at the resort that may be upgraded but without the major structural renovations. They would still be at 8000 points. At least this is what I have experienced with DRI.

In the DRI system I have enough points to play the game well and I get many, many benefits. I am sure Marriott will provide them too if they go to some points system. There will need to be incentives to continue to buy more. I wrote DRI once to tell them I felt they needed more incentives for people to buy more points. I am at the 30,000 point mark which can give me months of timeshare if I desired. However, the 50,000 point mark in DRI is their premimum package number (of course with the premimum MF). There is not enough incentive for me to take that next leap. I did not need more vacation time and I certainly did not need more MF costs.

I suggest again that everyone settle down and truly determine what you want out of your timeshare. Everyone will want different things and have different options. You will need to look at your family situation and determine what your goals are for your timeshare. Some of you have several and will need to determine if what Marriott does will enhance or not change your future goals with your timeshare.

I plan on sitting tight with my Marriott property and keeping the deed because I have a points system that allows me great deal of flexibility already. I go to Hawaii and so I use my Marriott. I will assume that Ko Olina would be worth quite a few points if they change however, I won't really need to make any adjustments. However, I will wait to see what Marriott is offering before I make any final decisions.

 

[timeos2]

You coul;dn't get it in weeks and you may not, but you might, in points

So whether you're dealing with a home resort advantage or not, it all comes down to supply and demand based on limited availability. That makes your argument about "selling the dream" irrelevant in the argument of whether a points system could be better or worse than a weeks system.

Exactly. Selling "the dream" is what retail timeshare has been about since day one. The fact that the vast majority of buyers can't get the best of the best or the highest demand times has been true since day one. All this bluster about the conversion to points changing the game is nonsense.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Exactly. Selling "the dream" is what retail timeshare has been about since day one. The fact that the vast majority of buyers can't get the best of the best or the highest demand times has been true since day one. All this bluster about the conversion to points changing the game is nonsense.

I agree with this statement 100%. How is it different now? Sales were always selling the idea "buy Orlando and trade to Maui". This is no different than what it will be with a points system.

 

[puckmanfl]

Lots of good points here as there is nothing quite as exhilarating as a heated debate.

What concerns me however is the effect of any change on Maintenance fees as over the years these add up and become the major expense (over purchase price).

Currently, I have wonderful weeks that I would be happy to occupy, but as part of MVCI (vacation CLUB) I love to exchange as well. Assuming that on 6/1 (or whatever date) MVCI goes to some Disney like system where points become the currency and the MF's are "per point" What happens to the MF's at the deeded units sold before 6/1. If one just 'holds" it seems logical that the MF's will have there usual "inflationary + assessment" yearly increases. However, if the deed is returned or converted to the points it is logical that the MF's will be based on "point value" of the unit. Thus plat weeks will have increased MF's (since they generate more points) and Bronze MF's might diminish (as these units generate fewer points).

Thus come some magical date, I will be asked to convert. There will "be a fee" + an inevitable increase in MF"s as the weeks are platinum. I will be told that this is "optional" but of course I will lose any priority to internally trade if I don't. I don't really care if the system is weeks or points based as both have advantages and disadvantages, but I am concerned as it will most likely cost more $$$ to keep "whatever" exchange value I have.

I also don't think I would convert and I don't see how any other high demand week holder (that occupies) would convert if the MF's were dramatically increased...

I believe the percentage of "exchangers" is higher than anyone will admit. During my recent sales tour at Aruba Ocean (during plat plus spring break week) I was given the usual tale about "how one must own to get in here", yet on the check in line, the 8 customers in front of me all had II certificates ready to present.

Please help me understand and correct any flawed logic here!!!

 

[timeos2]

The weeks still remain & get paid as always

What concerns me however is the effect of any change on Maintenance fees as over the years these add up and become the major expense (over purchase price).

Currently, I have wonderful weeks that I would be happy to occupy, but as part of MVCI (vacation CLUB) I love to exchange as well. Assuming that on 6/1 (or whatever date) MVCI goes to some Disney like system where points become the currency and the MF's are "per point" What happens to the MF's at the deeded units sold before 6/1. If one just 'holds" it seems logical that the MF's will have there usual "inflationary + assessment" yearly increases. However, if the deed is returned or converted to the points it is logical that the MF's will be based on "point value" of the unit. Thus plat weeks will have increased MF's (since they generate more points) and Bronze MF's might diminish (as these units generate fewer points).
Please help me understand and correct any flawed logic here!!!

When a weeks based system gets "converted" to points the underlying weeks are absorbed but not eliminated. This occurs because the original terms of sale/ownership cannot be changed after the sale (see the many threads regarding those unchangeable rights & why that is the case).

So although the owners will get different amount of points based on the quality of the ownership those are based on - the fees for the underlying weeks will be paid, in full, either by the owners IF they hold on to their deeds & are simply pledging their time into a voluntary points system or by Marriott (or whoever controls the trust that is likely to be created under this scenario) - but the weeks never go away and the variable fees due based on points do NOT effect the fees due on the weeks.

Make sense? You as an owner of weeks do not have to convert nor will you be impacted via fees on the weeks that every other owner won't also pay. Those who opt into the points will most likely pay a fee to be in that system and may, again depending what they roll out, either pay for the weeks OR be in a trust that will pay for the weeks but then assign points to all members & those members will pay the fees based on how many points they own - along with a management overhead (hey, Marriott has to benefit too!).

 

[csalter2]

There could be a home resort advantage

Lots of good points here as there is nothing quite as exhilarating as a heated debate.

What concerns me however is the effect of any change on Maintenance fees as over the years these add up and become the major expense (over purchase price).

Currently, I have wonderful weeks that I would be happy to occupy, but as part of MVCI (vacation CLUB) I love to exchange as well. Assuming that on 6/1 (or whatever date) MVCI goes to some Disney like system where points become the currency and the MF's are "per point" What happens to the MF's at the deeded units sold before 6/1. If one just 'holds" it seems logical that the MF's will have there usual "inflationary + assessment" yearly increases. However, if the deed is returned or converted to the points it is logical that the MF's will be based on "point value" of the unit. Thus plat weeks will have increased MF's (since they generate more points) and Bronze MF's might diminish (as these units generate fewer points).

Thus come some magical date, I will be asked to convert. There will "be a fee" + an inevitable increase in MF"s as the weeks are platinum. I will be told that this is "optional" but of course I will lose any priority to internally trade if I don't. I don't really care if the system is weeks or points based as both have advantages and disadvantages, but I am concerned as it will most likely cost more $$$ to keep "whatever" exchange value I have.

I also don't think I would convert and I don't see how any other high demand week holder (that occupies) would convert if the MF's were dramatically increased...

I believe the percentage of "exchangers" is higher than anyone will admit. During my recent sales tour at Aruba Ocean (during plat plus spring break week) I was given the usual tale about "how one must own to get in here", yet on the check in line, the 8 customers in front of me all had II certificates ready to present.

Please help me understand and correct any flawed logic here!!!

Again, unnecessary concern before you know the facts. We don't know what Marriott will do. I do know from my experience with DRI, I get a 13 month home collection resort advantage and I have points. So all of the resorts in my collection of resorts, which has about 15 of them, I get reservation priority. Others in the DRI system I can book 10 months out. A good example of this could be the Florida Club. Marriott could make them a resort collection and give those who are owners in that group and two month reservation advantage over those who aren't in that collection. Marriott may offer something like that.

As for maintenance fees the value per point will depend on how Marriott rolls this system out. I am not going to speculate on that.

 

[taffy19]

Here is a post that I found interesting. I value his posts highly and it is based on facts and not speculation.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...-extends-affiliation-interval.html#post382944

let's hope that it will be the best new system of all. The Marriott had enough time to learn from everyone else's mistakes so not make them.

 

[puckmanfl]

I think I got it...

Let me recap!!!

If I keep a deeded week (decline my invite) my MF's will be as usual!!!

If I accept to convert,it could be a system where I trade/donate my week to Marriott for points (# of points based on value of property) but the MF's /week don't change. My weeks could be deposited into a "trust" where my MF's will be based on #of points owned. In this system a high demand (more points) week will have an increase in MF's, but a low demand week (less points) will have a decrease in MF's???

Do I have it correct????

 

[timeos2]

I think I got it...

Let me recap!!!

If I keep a deeded week (decline my invite) my MF's will be as usual!!!

If I accept to convert,it could be a system where I trade/donate my week to Marriott for points (# of points based on value of property) but the MF's /week don't change. My weeks could be deposited into a "trust" where my MF's will be based on #of points owned. In this system a high demand (more points) week will have an increase in MF's, but a low demand week (less points) will have a decrease in MF's???

Do I have it correct????

I think you got it. Good job.

 

[puckmanfl]

If they go to a "trust" system, Why would any "high demand, mostly occupancy" owner even consider converting???

Just for an example, Ko-olina is at about $1500 MF/year. Any dramatic rise will bring it over $2000 (getting to the point) where it would be easier to go on TUG market place or Redweek and rent the "dream"!!!

I really don't mind a "reasonable" one time fee to convert, but a dramatic increase in yearly MF's can be daunting! Especially If one can occupy and do II trades with just routine increases in MF's.

MVCI in Perry's words call "sell the dream", but there "won't be no dream to be had" in a such a system because the high demand weeks (52 Mountainside, to quote Perry) will never be put in such a trust!!!

Can't wait till June, it should be fun!!!!

 

[taffy19]

That's where you're wrong, and where your theories lose all credibility. There is ALWAYS accountability from the developer.

Selling the possibility of being able to reserve the best interval of a timeshare isn't unique to points systems. Holiday time periods within a usage season will always be in higher demand than other time periods in that season, and reservations are always subject to availability. (The only system that offers any guarantee of availability is a fixed week system, but even with some of those an owner might lose the ability to use his/her week in a given year if s/he doesn't follow the requirements for reserving the week.)



Where you may have a point is where you mention unsold inventory. In a weeks-based system Marriott cannot sell more of a certain unit/week interval than exist in the usage calendar, regardless of whether other different certain week/unit intervals at that resort remain in developer inventory. In a points-based system the only limitation is the total number of points allotted to the resort. In both systems, though, reservations are "subject to availability" and the last buyer in either system prior to sell-out (of the season in a weeks-based system or total allotment in a points-based system) has exactly the same chances as the first and every buyer to reserve a high-demand interval.

Marriott sends the fixed week reservation confirmation automatically by emai so nothing is required.

 

[tlwmkw]

iconnections,

Thanks for some actual facts on this very speculative thread. I was interested to see (and Perrym needs to take note) that Florida law is having a say in what will be permissable in this new program. It won't just be a complete free for all.

I said before that it is doing many people an injustice to state what you imagine to be the new system- anyone reading this may think that there is some factual information being given. Perhaps some folks have an agenda in this and want to discredit MVCI.

Does anyone know anything about the points program mentioned in the quote that iconnections gave?

tlwmkw

 

[csalter2]

If they go to a "trust" system, Why would any "high demand, mostly occupancy" owner even consider converting???

Just for an example, Ko-olina is at about $1500 MF/year. Any dramatic rise will bring it over $2000 (getting to the point) where it would be easier to go on TUG market place or Redweek and rent the "dream"!!!

I really don't mind a "reasonable" one time fee to convert, but a dramatic increase in yearly MF's can be daunting! Especially If one can occupy and do II trades with just routine increases in MF's.

MVCI in Perry's words call "sell the dream", but there "won't be no dream to be had" in a such a system because the high demand weeks (52 Mountainside, to quote Perry) will never be put in such a trust!!!

Can't wait till June, it should be fun!!!!

Not every week fixed week 52 or other high demand fixed week is sold. Thus, you could possibly have access to it. It's not a foregone conclusion that you will not get it. It may be difficult but not impossible.

 

[moltenlava]

I'm about to purchase platinum DSV villa but now I'm a little concerned about this rumor. I know the rumor has been around for some times. Are we certain that this Marriott is changing the exchange system this year?

I am still a newbie in TS terminology, and I don't understand how the point system will affect my ability to trade. Could someone give an example of how it would work after the change? The reason I'm looking at DSV is so I can trade it into Hawaii and Caribbean. I don't intend to keep DSV for personal use as I have another TS in southern California for that.

Compared to existing II exchange system with priority Marriott trading, would the new point system cost more/less/same to exchange into Caribbean and Hawaii Marriott resorts?

 

[puckmanfl]

IS DSV a Marriott unit? if not which developer???

 

[moltenlava]

I meant Marriott Desert Springs Villas in Palm Desert, CA.

 

[PerryM]

Ski the holidays...

Perry, here you go again with the idea that they can sell some unlimited number of points forever and ever and ever and ever amen. They can't. They can only sell the number of points that equal the total allotted to the resort and stipulated in the governing docs (based on factors that have been explained to you over and over in this thread.) In order for your example here to be logical then Mountainside cannot be allotted any less than the 50K times 200 already sold - 10M. I haven't seen Mountainside and have no idea how many units are there or how they are configured, but eventually that resort's points allotment will be SOLD OUT. Even if the sales rep is selling based on the premise that points at any resort can be used at any other without a home resort advantage (which we don't know to be the case,) the sales rep will be required to disclose usage provisions and the buyer will realize that demand will be a huge factor to consider.

I expect a home resort advantage. But let's assume your idea is how it works and there isn't one - points are points. I still don't understand how that's any different from how the current system works now. Take a look at a resort where Platinum season extends throughout the year - they can sell 52 weeks times as many villas at the resort. For example, every potential owner can be sold on Christmas Week in Hawaii at Kauai Beach Club but only as many owners as villa units can reserve it. Another example - SurfWatch has 10 3BR oceanvista units and Platinum season extends for 13 weeks. That means the sales reps can sell the dream of the July 4th holiday premium week in one of those villas 130 times over, but only 10 owners in a given year will actually GET the dream.

So whether you're dealing with a home resort advantage or not, it all comes down to supply and demand based on limited availability. That makes your argument about "selling the dream" irrelevant in the argument of whether a points system could be better or worse than a weeks system.

Marriott's new sales scheme will be fueled by hundreds of thousands of Marriott owners who deposit their weeks into the system. Marriott need not deposit a single week at day one.

In fact lets examine just that - on day 1 Marriott sends out eMails and hold webinars and in 1 week have 50,000 weeks deposited into the sales scheme - Marriott has deposited none, zip, zilch.

One Week 52 at Mountainside is in there as well as week 52 at MOC and Summit Watch - all the hottest of the hot weeks are in the system - Marriott has none. Each unit gave the owner 50,000 Points into their account.

Let's say that 25 owners from each of these weeks decide to pay the $2,500 membership fee and a total of 1,000 weeks are deposited and Marriott gets $2,500,000 in cash and issues 50,000,000 Points. Marriott has yet to have 1 Point in the system.

Marriott buys 1,000 Bronze weeks at Summit Watch for $1,500 a pop for $1,500,000 which leaves them $1,000,000 in the bank.

Marriott decides to make each worth 25,000 Points, a Mid July week at Beach Place Towers generates 30,000. Marriott now deposits 25,000,000 Points into the system which are now up for sale.

Marriott decides that each Point will sell for $4 each. That's $100 M in sales on an investment of $1.5 M - not bad.

Marriott salesreps all over the country realize that the 25 week 52s at Mountainside will be in the system for 30 days before they are available for reservations. For 30 days the salesreps will show Ma and Pa 25 reservations at Mountainside for week 52.

100 Marriott salesreps each sell a 50,000 Point Platinum package for 5,000,000 Points @ $4 each = $20,000,000 in sales on day 7 (give them a week).

Each sale is for ski bums from around the country who want to ski New Year's Eve at MountainSide.

30 days later reservations open and 25 lucky folks get to ski Park City New Year's Eve. What about the other thousands of folks - buy more Points and reserve Christmas and New Years for 100,000 Points next year.

Marriott violated no laws or rules - hell it sets whatever rules it wants.

Marriott never had a Week 52 in inventory and never needs to do so since it isn't about selling an actual Week 52 anymore but reservations to some Marriott's owner's Week 52.

All the Marriott salesreps are going to do and say is:

"A reservation made at MountainSide for Week 52 requires 50,000 Points and I just happen to have 50,000 Points for sale now - will that be cash or financed at 18.9%?"

Unethical? Well some of them will get the reservations, so it wasn't a real lie. Buried somewhere in all the paperwork will be the one little sentence: "Reservations subject to availability" that members will acknowledged by signing their name.

 

[puckmanfl]

Here is how the Current system works (IMO). What will happen in June is anyone's guess.

In the current system for the purposes of exchanges with II, a week is a week is a week. There are some short stay exchanges with II (but it usually limited availability) and way too long a topic to go over.

You can deposit your week with II either on a request first or deposit first basis. Request first means you do not give up your right to use your unit if the exchange does not come thouugh. Deposit first means you relinquish the unit and II can give it to another customer while searching for your request.

I am assuming you want to trade into another MVCI unit. All of the deposited MVCI inventory go into A Marriott pool. II has their secret formula of assigning value for deposited and requested weeks. Kind of like the secret KFC or Coca-Cola formula. II will assign your deposited week a "value". Higher value units on deposit looking for the same trade as you will get "dibs", but when the higher value units are accounted for and your exchange is available you will confirm. Here is the good news. Any MVCI interal excahnge (Marriott-Marriott) has a 24 day window where it must be made available to MVCI customers first. Hypothetically, if you deposited a two bedroom Bronze Marriott week, a 2 bedroom Marriott platinum week must be given to you before an "outside" exchanger. This is true, even if it is Hyatt Ski week. This is your INTERNAL exchange advantage. If you deposit early enough and give a wide range of dates, usually any reasonable internal exchange will confirm. I do not believe you can deposit a 1 bedroom and get a 2 bedroom, unless there are no requests at all for this unit and it becomes available on instant exchange. With a "weeks" based system "uptrades" are very common (just ask Perry) as sometimes owners deposit these great weeks and settle for "downtrades". With planning you can do well. In II within 60 days, all bets are off as a 1bedroom can get a 3bedroom in Flexchange

In a points system, each week is assigned a value and the currency is "points" . A one week Marriott DSV week may not have enough points for one week Hawaii (all plat) but may have enough points for a gold,silver or bronze carribean. The Marriott DSV week may only have enough points for 5 days at a platinum ski week or Hawaii... Some points program have "last minute" deals where it takes less points to get a unit within 60 days of check in.

Hope this is not too confusing

 

[PerryM]

Here is how the Current system works (IMO). What will happen in June is anyone's guess.

In the current system for the purposes of exchanges with II, a week is a week is a week. There are some short stay exchanges with II (but it usually limited availability) and way too long a topic to go over.

You can deposit your week with II either on a request first or deposit first basis. Request first means you do not give up your right to use your unit if the exchange does not come thouugh. Deposit first means you relinquish the unit and II can give it to another customer while searching for your request.

I am assuming you want to trade into another MVCI unit. All of the deposited MVCI inventory go into A Marriott pool. II has their secret formula of assigning value for deposited and requested weeks. Kind of like the secret KFC or Coca-Cola formula. II will assign your deposited week a "value". Higher value units on deposit looking for the same trade as you will get "dibs", but when the higher value units are accounted for and your exchange is available you will confirm. Here is the good news. Any MVCI interal excahnge (Marriott-Marriott) has a 24 day window where it must be made available to MVCI customers first. Hypothetically, if you deposited a two bedroom Bronze Marriott week, a 2 bedroom Marriott platinum week must be given to you before an "outside" exchanger. This is true, even if it is Hyatt Ski week. This is your INTERNAL exchange advantage. If you deposit early enough and give a wide range of dates, usually any reasonable internal exchange will confirm. I do not believe you can deposit a 1 bedroom and get a 2 bedroom, unless there are no requests at all for this unit and it becomes available on instant exchange. With a "weeks" based system "uptrades" are very common (just ask Perry) as sometimes owners deposit these great weeks and settle for "downtrades". With planning you can do well. In II within 60 days, all bets are off as a 1bedroom can get a 3bedroom in Flexchange

In a points system, each week is assigned a value and the currency is "points" . A one week Marriott DSV week may not have enough points for one week Hawaii (all plat) but may have enough points for a gold,silver or bronze carribean. The Marriott DSV week may only have enough points for 5 days at a platinum ski week or Hawaii... Some points program have "last minute" deals where it takes less points to get a unit within 60 days of check in.

Hope this is not too confusing

Great explanation but one key fact needs to be stressed - Marriott controls the sale of Points and Reservations with the new scheme. It decides who gets what with their super secret computer programs.

Before they were limited to just sales and exchange of reservations was the purview of a third company II.

If you don't get the reservation you want what do you do? Was it an honest transaction or do Platinum members get a little something extra over Silver members?

If you think II had strange results wait until the new sales scheme has many members scratching their heads in disbelief.

But not to worry, just like the salesreps used to talk about buying extra weeks (only from their resort of course) to get 13 month reservations so there will be all kinds of similar solutions which always turn out to be:

"Buy more Points"

Gee; who knew?

 

[moltenlava]

I still don't understand why the new point system is disadvantageous to the owners.

If platinum DSV is equivalent to gold Aruba (for the argument's sake), with the current exchange system there is little or no guarantee that DSV owner will ever get Aruba (if we don't count special last minute deals, etc). The trading power can be empirically assessed, but there is no published data to accurately show the trading power of one TS compared to another.

With the point system the owners will know exactly why they don't get the week they want in another resort, and there is an option to purchase the point to get the week if they wanted to. If the owner doesn't want to pay extra to buy the premium week, they can still get gold/silver week, just as they could with traditional exchange.

Another convenience with the point system that I can think of is the owner doesn't need to go through the hassle of

1. getting a good week at the home resort and bank the week.
2. search for available week for the resort I want to trade to. (daily, weekly, etc)

The step 2 can be especially tedious, time consuming, and frustrating if the week I want doesn't turn up. With the point system I would know whether the week is available or not right away, so I don't need to keep searching for the trade.

I'm sure there is something that I'm missing, as a lot of owners seem to be uncomfortable with the switch to the point system. I'd like to understand what other concerns there are.

 

[PerryM]

Johnny Fairplay from Survivor is a great example..

I still don't understand why the new point system is disadvantageous to the owners.

If platinum DSV is equivalent to gold Aruba (for the argument's sake), with the current exchange system there is little or no guarantee that DSV owner will ever get Aruba (if we don't count special last minute deals, etc). The trading power can be empirically assessed, but there is no published data to accurately show the trading power of one TS compared to another.

With the point system the owners will know exactly why they don't get the week they want in another resort, and there is an option to purchase the point to get the week if they wanted to. If the owner doesn't want to pay extra to buy the premium week, they can still get gold/silver week, just as they could with traditional exchange.

Another convenience with the point system that I can think of is the owner doesn't need to go through the hassle of

1. getting a good week at the home resort and bank the week.
2. search for available week for the resort I want to trade to. (daily, weekly, etc)

The step 2 can be especially tedious, time consuming, and frustrating if the week I want doesn't turn up. With the point system I would know whether the week is available or not right away, so I don't need to keep searching for the trade.

I'm sure there is something that I'm missing, as a lot of owners seem to be uncomfortable with the switch to the point system. I'd like to understand what other concerns there are.

I believe you are making the assumption that this is an exchange system - I believe it is simply a sales system where its entire design is to sell Points and as an afterthought exchanges can be done too.

If this were a 3rd party like II or Redweek then a "fair" system is probably what was in the programmers minds as they created the system. The 3rd party wants lots and lots of exchanges since that's their only revenue source from the owners - that and membership fees.

Marriott, on the other hand, has a vested interest in NOT creating a "fair" system - they make their money from selling Points and they also create all the secret rules that make the new exchange system work.

The intended consequences of the new sales scheme are lower resale prices which they happen to have a vested interest in too - they can recycle cheap weeks and sell them as expensive Points.

There is so much temptation here for Marriott to abuse the system that I'm scared of what they could do to my little old Gold Summit Watch.

What Marriott eventually does is unknown but I can sure come up with worst case scenarios - folks are free to create best case scenarios if they want.

But we are talking about a timeshare developer who no longer builds timeshares - how long will their stockholders put up with that? I can only guess.

 

[puckmanfl]

There are many benefits to a point system. The debate betweens "weeks" currency and "points" currency can go on forever.

What is concerning here is the dramatic paradigm shift (rules change) that is coming. If a MVCI unit was purchased from the developer or re-sale is NOT relevant. Use of the units (Occupancy vs. Exchanging) is also not relevant. What is relevant was that the purchase was made with a specific set of "rules to the game". Many have researched these, agreed to play by them and have done well. The MVCI sales pitch included the whole "enchilada". Occupation of home units, ease of exchanging with II, tricks of the trade etc. The name says it all (Vacation Club) and Internal exchanging is one of the benefits sold. Just walk into any sales gallery and you will see pictures of AA of the resorts and the big II color board as well..

Sometime soon, I will get a "notification" that changes are coming. Whatever the cost and rules of the point game are, the "request" will be as follows. For a "fee" (minimal or moderate) and possible changes in your MF you can join our program. You are also free "Not to", but of course you will most likely lose any internal exchange benefit. The opportunity to sell back units and withdraw from the game will NOT be on the menu.

Hopefully, the new system will be great and many will want to join. However the prospects of increased costs and increased MF's are daunting!!!!

I will remain cautiously optimistic as I believe that the best business model is to produce a system that is LOVED by all. This will foster brand loyalty and future sales. I am hopeful that the MVCI will hit a "homerun"