Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[billymach4]

The interesting thing about the Aruba thread vs. the new points system one is that the Aruba thread has about 30,000 more views than the new system. That would indicate more people are participating in the points system, where there were more lookieloos in the Aruba one.

The Aruba Thread has been around much longer now. The Speculation thread just skyrocketed in the recent 2 weeks. The Speculation thread has a steeper participation curve.

 

[dioxide45]

The Aruba Thread has been around much longer now. The Speculation thread just skyrocketed in the recent 2 weeks. The Speculation thread has a steeper participation curve.

Not sure though if the speculation thread will top Aruba in views. Once any details are available, this or a new thread will skyrocket and the speculation thread will die a quick death. That is if anything is even announced.

 

[m61376]

What does this mean for my database? It isn't set up to handle weeks. Not looking forward to an update

Hmmm...maybe that should be in lieu of your sign up fee- after all, look at how much work it may entail for Marriott's benefit :hysterical:

 

[hipslo]

I would expect that currently they can access the reservation inventory the same way owners can - through the same website or on the same telephone line at exactly 9AM sharp on the days the 12-month windows open (or 13-month windows, if the contracts at any resorts allow it.)

Sort of like - hello marriott, this is marriott?

 

[Dean]

Imagine it's 8 AM CST in November and it's 13 months before week 52 opens at Park City. Marriott's salesreps have been selling thousands of owners the dream of New Year's Eve on the slopes at Park City.

Ding - it's 8 AM and 5,000 folks click the mouse to make a reservation....

Well this ain't TV and there are only 200 villas at MountainSide and 200 at Summit Watch (approximate) and only 400 owners can get those reservations - at the very max. Throw out 50% of the inventory at 13 months and only 200 reservations can be issued at the max.

Of course Marriott has to have a deed behind any available reservation and that's part of the job of the Points/Weeks Calendar - it has to be loaded with deeds in order for reservations to be issued. They can't fudge this. Just like right now - "No reservations left".

So only 1 pool of reservations needs to be kept.

When Marriott builds new Point oriented Resorts there has to be 2 pools of inventory - one for Resale Points/Legacy Points and one for Point Resorts which probably will keep out those kinds of folks...

A deed is a deed....indeed.

No Perry, weeks owners cannot have access to weeks assigned to the points program and vice versa. There has to be separate inventories.

Dean-
Let me see if I am getting this- are you saying basically that:
-week owners who decide to stay as is will have a proportionate number of weeks to reserve of each week in their season according to the percentage of week owners and will get to make their reservations at 12 months (or 13 months if they retain the 13 month rule)
-legacy week owners who opt into the new points system will have a proportionate number of weeks to reserve of each week in their season according to the percentage of ownership weeks in the new system (converted owners + unsold inventory) and, of course, will be sharing that inventory with new points owners. BUT- legacy week owners who opt to use their week in any given year will be able to reserve at the 12 month mark, while legacy point owners (legacy week owners converting to points in a given year) will only be able to reserve closer in, perhaps at the 10 or 11 month mark

That is my understanding in principle. Don't know the exact timing of when those in points can reserve their weeks and when points owners can then reserve after that but the principles you state are really the way it must be.

Now, where do new point owners fall in this pool? If they have no home resort- since it has been said a point is a point- they don't have a home resort priority to book anywhere. Does that mean they also have to wait to the 10 or 11 month mark to book anywhere? Or do they compete with the legacy week owners in the new program but using their week (but that would mean they didn't get home resort priority)? It seems like there would have to be a third pool of inventory unless no point owner could booth until week owners had first crack at the reservations (and, in reality, first crack could even mean one day in advance, not a month or two).

My assumption is that other than a points owner taking their week in lieu of points, everyone would compete after that. I doubt that you'll have an priority at your home resort using your points themselves and would simply be in the points pool. It would be possible to add an additional group with home resort priority using points but it makes no sense to do so unless they are going to have a home resort priority in points for all resorts which those getting the best info suggest is not the case.

Lastly- and I think this will be a big negative personally- is it your understanding from all this that a legacy week owner will have to use his/her entire week as a single unit to retain home resort priority for booking and that the unit cannot be split (or that if it is split both halves are used as weeks reservations at one's home resort)? That would mean that a legacy week owner who converts to take advantage of internal exchanges could not use their 1BR part at their home resort and book with home resort priority while trying to book their studio (or combining points with perhaps another partial or full unit) elsewhere using the point based internal exchange system. So either they would have to give up home resort advantage when booking their partial unit or exchange externally via II. That would preclude owners from a very big benefit- the potential to combine left-over points from partial units. It seems as though even in the new system it would be weeks or points, except just on a yearly basis.

Based on what has been said here by those seeming to have the best info, it is my understanding you'll have to take the unit either in it's entirety OR points. I would ASSUME that you could still lockoff for 2 separate reservations and trade one and not the other if you wanted. I would not expect them to require you to forego the lockoff options completely just that you couldn't take points on the studio and use the 1 BR of a l/o just like you can't now with MR points.

Realize please that my interpretation is my own and comes from my sense of what they can and can't do legally, what is most likely and what has been posted on this board from those that have gotten real info for a real source. I also include the assumption that Marriott will at least act legally even if not member friendly. Unlike some have said, I feel like I can look at this objectively and totally separate what I want vs from what I think will and likely should happen. Therefore take it for what it's worth.

Wait a minute! If I purchase points from Marriott and they combine all of the different resorts maintenance fees together and split them up amongst the new owners, does that mean I have to pay for that stupid roof down in Aruba?

Y-ASK

Potentially though I doubt it in this case. IF they put the points into a trust they could charge dues based on a given resort OR they could average them over the entire trust. I think Wyndham does it the former, BG currently does it that latter for the points now being sold. Here's an example of how it could work. I got into BG by converting fixed weeks. Had I still owned the fixed weeks when a SA came along, I would have owed right at $8000 or $1000 for each studio and 1 BR. A 3 BR double lockoff would have been a $3K SA. Instead with my points being in the latest trust (they have several), I paid only around $60 total even though my points are still based at the resort in question. It acts much like insurance by averaging the risk over a much larger pool. It also simplifies the system for the management company.

 

[Dean]

From a business perspective, I do wonder why they would still be training on a Saturday? Is Saturday not a big tour/presentation day?

My understanding is that Sat/Sun are low days due to turnover. I've gotten an extra $50 a couple of times from Marriott to tour on those days to $125.

 

[dioxide45]

My understanding is that Sat/Sun are low days due to turnover. I've gotten an extra $50 a couple of times from Marriott to tour on those days to $125.

Correct, they won't ever let someone tour on check out day. They want to make sure they can keep you there to work you as long as they need to. They don't want you proclaiming that you have to leave to catch your flight.

 

[Dean]

Correct, they won't ever let someone tour on check out day. They want to make sure they can keep you there to work you as long as they need to. They don't want you proclaiming that you have to leave to catch your flight.

I think the other part is it's simply hard to get you signed up to tour on those days as well due to physically not being present for part of the time and due to fear of not being able to make it.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sort of like - hello marriott, this is marriott?

Well that sounds pretty foolish but I guess it must be something like that. Now you have me paranoid, though, that we have no way of asking them how they do this. Somewhere in the auditing process this kind of thing MUST be catalogued, I think? But how do we get our hands on the audit reports?

Oh gosh, now your Borg has assimilated me!

 

[SueDonJ]

You are right Sue, I have only read the governing docs for Shadow Ridge. I cannot vouch for others. It is my understnading that most resorts (except the oldest) have the same covenant language, although the reality is there is no exactly uniform language. For a legal perspective, each resort (and its underlying deeds and covenants) are legally distinct with nothing in common but a management company. Your example is like having a common management company for 2 condos with completely different rules and just applying the least restrictive rules to both.

Strictly speaking my comments should be that my HOA (Shadow Ridge Owners assn) and its manager Marriott cannot (legally in my opinion) allow anyone who does not own two weeks at Shadow Ridge to reserve at 13 months in advance. What other Associations allow is subject to their particular covenants. I'm happy to debate it in a new thread, but dont; want to cheat the Aruba thread.

Nah, no need, we can wait for another time when one of these gigantic threads isn't eating up all the space. Thanks for the response.

 

[m61376]

Thanks Dean!

I recognize even assuming that the information posted here turns out to be true, there is a lot of missing info.. I am just trying to understand the basics so that I'll be able to intelligently (or at least semi-intelligently) decipher what is presented, and at least recognize what info. they've left out.

I wonder if they will e-mail the point schedule to every owner, or only what each individual's week is worth. In reality, we'd all need to see a chart with every resort/season/size/view to be able to determine relative values. I hope we don't have to piece the information together.

 

[SueDonJ]

Thanks Dean!

I recognize even assuming that the information posted here turns out to be true, there is a lot of missing info.. I am just trying to understand the basics so that I'll be able to intelligently (or at least semi-intelligently) decipher what is presented, and at least recognize what info. they've left out.

I wonder if they will e-mail the point schedule to every owner, or only what each individual's week is worth. In reality, we'd all need to see a chart with every resort/season/size/view to be able to determine relative values. I hope we don't have to piece the information together.

But any owner registered at my-vacationclub.com has access to the calendar and dues statements and GM's notices and Annual Meeting minutes, etc ... that are found by using the "Owners" tab at each of the resort's pages. They could put the point requirements there, too.

 

[dioxide45]

But any owner registered at my-vacationclub.com has access to the calendar and dues statements and GM's notices and Annual Meeting minutes, etc ... that are found by using the "Owners" tab at each of the resort's pages. They could put the point requirements there, too.

The problem is that most of the time the information in the Owners tab is out of date. For Grande Vista there are no meeting minutes for the past two years. I think the responsibility of keeping these tabs up to date is on the resorts to provide the information they want published to Marriott, then Marriott posts it.

I think it is much more likely that the new website www.marriottvacationclubdestinations.com will have any information necessary. Points charts will likely be available to points owners and converters at that site.

 

[dioxide45]

Has anyone attempted to contact Telesales at all? Are they closed also, what information do they provide or what message is provided to indicate their closure?

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean!

I recognize even assuming that the information posted here turns out to be true, there is a lot of missing info.. I am just trying to understand the basics so that I'll be able to intelligently (or at least semi-intelligently) decipher what is presented, and at least recognize what info. they've left out.

I wonder if they will e-mail the point schedule to every owner, or only what each individual's week is worth. In reality, we'd all need to see a chart with every resort/season/size/view to be able to determine relative values. I hope we don't have to piece the information together.

I think that's what most of us are trying to do. That's why I don't see this as a wasted thread like some do plus it's been somewhat entertaining at time. I am at HH in a week with a tour scheduled that weekend. The info here suggests that I'll seriously consider converting all of my weeks assuming one fee for all, one club fee and access to my underlying high demand weeks. Even at minimally higher costs, the added flexibility will be worth it if all turns out as it's looking. So far it's shaping up to be a win win for most that own multiple weeks and for Marriott. Even better would be a VIP system as I'd likely be able to find a way to get into it at the top level.

 

[pwrshift]

I might be the only one here that hasn't even looked at the Aruba thread. :whoopie:

Brian

 

[winger]

...I am at HH in a week with a tour scheduled that weekend. The info here suggests that I'll seriously consider converting all of my weeks assuming one fee for all, one club fee and access to my underlying high demand weeks. ....

Bring your checkbook to the 'tour' and put it on the table when the sales rep introduces himself. Let him MAKE the sale, tell you ALL the juicy details. See how he reacts to an apparent easy, willing 'new customer'.

 

[wsrobinson]

Nothing New

I'm sure this has already been covered here but ... Why wouldn't Marriott try to convert their current system to a points based system. Timesharing is ingenious (selling the same week at some place 52 weeks over) but a points based system is much more brilliant. You convert owners weeks telling them they can go to a desired place for X number of points. Then, you simply raise the point values to go to the desired place and force the owner to buy more points. So, the owner is always on the hook! Sounds alot like what Fairfield/Wyndham did/does? As a side effect, owners weeks are devalued to almost nothing (like Fairfield/Wyndham/WM). At some properties, this won't happen but at others...I guarantee it will. Just my two cents.

BTW. I am in HH starting Sunday and got the call last night from a guy who said his nickname is "the vacation guy" who persistently tried to book me a time slot to discuss Marriott's brand new program which they are rolling out Sunday. I told him I couldn't commit and he stressed the "importance and significance" of the new program to me. He was disappointed that I wouldn't share his enthusiasm and commit to a time.

 

[m61376]

But any owner registered at my-vacationclub.com has access to the calendar and dues statements and GM's notices and Annual Meeting minutes, etc ... that are found by using the "Owners" tab at each of the resort's pages. They could put the point requirements there, too.

That's true; hopefully at the very least they will do that. And it won't take long before some enterprising Tugger makes a spreadsheet of all fifty resorts, since the only way to really understand the system will be to compare and contrast. What would be nice is if Marriott just released a chart either in the e-mail or as a website link.

In retrospect, this is the natural culmination of their year of sales. When you think about it, how many times have people commented that Marriott couldn't go back to full prices after running all these sales because it would take a long time before people weren't waiting for the next special. Not selling weeks anymore eliminates that issue.

Unfortunately, selling points also lets Marriott sell its less desirable inventory. much of it in weeks people don't want to go to, while increasing the competition for the better weeks that people bought into.

 

[m61376]

BTW. I am in HH starting Sunday and got the call last night from a guy who said his nickname is "the vacation guy" who persistently tried to book me a time slot to discuss Marriott's brand new program which they are rolling out Sunday. I told him I couldn't commit and he stressed the "importance and significance" of the new program to me. He was disappointed that I wouldn't share his enthusiasm and commit to a time.

Those on vacation next week are the best resource to inquire about the new program and ask the unanswered questions. I never do these tours (DH can't be bothered) but I would go in a heartbeat if I was going away over the next few weeks. By the end of the summer, when we are going, I'm guessing the more brilliant minds here will have fully digested this already and there will already be tips on playing the system.

Personally, I really hope one can use home resort priority to book part of a unit and then points to book with the locked off half, although from others' posts it appears likely to be that the unit must be used as a whole as a legacy week in the new system. I know that would lose a lot of flexibility. For example, I booked my 3BR intending to use the whole unit. My daughter had a conflict and decided not to go this summer, so I locked off and deposited the studio. It would be nice if I could just take the points from that deposit and use them towards another trip. Not everyone decides at booking whether or not to lock off- that's one of the beauties of the lock off system. It seems to me that by not allowing partial home week use/partial point use that Marriott will be ensuring that many owners, who like to use at least part of their unit at their home resort, will be depositing into II rather than their internal system.

So- a few more questions to add to Sue's list:
-what happens with lock-offs and use of legacy weeks for home resort priority? Can part of the unit be booked as a week (and use home resort priority) and part with points, and can a unit be later locked off and a side exchanged for its point value?
-What about the issue of borrowing and banking? Can points be rented, either from Marriott or from another MVCI owner?
-What about the issue of renting? II doesn't allow rentals of exchanges. Can an owner try to nab the best weeks now not to enhance trade but to rent? If so, we may be replacing the perceived solution to one headache with another (and, admittedly- lest there be lots of arguments about this- just as many consider booking the best weeks to maximize their trade value in II as a fair way of maximizing their ownership value, this will be considered fair by many too). Of course, people do that now as well, but in the new system they will be able to really use the system to their advantage, presumably because they may have access to the best weeks at resorts with the highest rental yields (which of course will mean increased competition for those week 52's at hot destinations).


Are you keeping track of the list, Sue?

 

[mpizza]

That speculation thread is a riot! I suggest we all read "Who Moved My Cheese"

Fletch, I trust you'll give us the facts as soon as you can.

Maria

 

[m61376]

Fletch- I hope you don't plan on getting too much work done at DVC this week- you may be too busy answering questions here! After all your tantalizing hints, let's face it: INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW - and we want DETAILS!!!

Since the "official" release date is Sunday, does that mean at 12:01 you can post all the salient details? Don't you want to spend Father's Day chatting with mostly strangers?:rofl:

 

[jlf58]

If it's Sunday, someone should just call telesales and talk to a sales person.
I don't even own a Marriott anymore so I am not that concered

Fletch- I hope you don't plan on getting too much work done at DVC this week- you may be too busy answering questions here! After all your tantalizing hints, let's face it: INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW - and we want DETAILS!!!

Since the "official" release date is Sunday, does that mean at 12:01 you can post all the salient details? Don't you want to spend Father's Day chatting with mostly strangers?:rofl:

 

[m61376]

I might be the only one here that hasn't even looked at the Aruba thread. :whoopie:

Brian

But, Brian, how many times have you looked at this and the speculation thread? More importantly will be your participation in tomorrow's thread- many of us will be relying on your (amongst others with similar long term knowledge of the system) analysis.

Hope you, Dave, Fletch, etc. (the list goes on...) have cleared your calendars for the week :rofl:

 

[dougp26364]

That speculation thread is a riot! I suggest we all read "Who Moved My Cheese"

Fletch, I trust you'll give us the facts as soon as you can.

Maria

Exellent point and an excellent little book to read.

I went to bed early last night (long day, little sleep, long story). So was the goal accomplished?