Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[m61376]

I don't get it. You folks are all so negative. Enough with the negative vibes. $1499 isn't a lot but it's enough to get me to enroll my plat weeks in the new system. If they want the Plat plus week they're going to have to pay me more than that though.

:rofl: that's the best line yet!!

 

[m61376]

Couldn't Marriott then legally say that x % of weeks can potentially be reserved by week owners, y % by legacy week owners who have converted but are reserving their owned weeks, and z% can potentially be reserved by Marriott for its point system and then transfer the right to actually reserve those weeks to the point owners?

There has to be a cut-off point for each ownership group, doesn't there? The only other way would for there to be a single pool, with a free for all, unless they only allow legacy owners using their home resort to reserve on day one and point owners at 12 months minus one day, so that home resort priority is retained throughout. Or possibly points will be points, but will be sold attached to a choice of a single resort to allow for a home resort advantage at one property.

Just when I thought I was starting to understand this

 

[dioxide45]

As I said in a previous post, it has been said here that Marriott currently owns 60% of the MVC's total inventory. If they own 60%, then they have plenty of weeks/days/ weekends to allocate to anything they want like Marriott reward points, the new upcoming points that will be used by the new points members, and anything else they see fit to use their 60% of the weeks for I assume.

I would be surprised if that 60% were true. If it is, Marriott is truly in trouble. It took them 25 years to only sell 40% of their inventory? Sure inventory changed over time and the total number of units did also, but I just don't buy it. That leaves them with 45 years of inventory to sell?

 

[jlf58]

2/3 of the way to 1000 views. My day is complete

 

[jlf58]

Just a guess, MVCI got caught with more unsold inventory than anyone in the industry but they still only have probably about 25% unsold. The bad news is thats billions of dollars.

I would be surprised if that 60% were true. If it is, Marriott is truly in trouble. It took them 30 years to only sell 40% of their inventory? Sure inventory changed over time and the total number of units did also, but I just don't buy it. That leaves them with 45 years of inventory to sell?

 

[m61376]

Just a guess, MVCI got caught with more unsold inventory than anyone in the industry but they still only have probably about 25% unsold. The bad news is thats billions of dollars.

Besides Marco and perhaps Lakeshore, whose sales probably were decimated by the economy, what percent of those weeks are Plat. weeks and what percent Silver and Bronze? Is this new system really a sales-tool to sell those less desirable weeks?

 

[jlf58]

Lakeshore is ahead of sales pace. Marco could never sell out so the points will save it. Oceana is another thats doing average at best.

Besides Marco and perhaps Lakeshore, whose sales probably were decimated by the economy, what percent of those weeks are Plat. weeks and what percent Silver and Bronze? Is this new system really a sales-tool to sell those less desirable weeks?

 

[taffy19]

No. The semantics and specific processes are crucial. You have to distinguish weeks that have yet to be reserved (ie just a potential reservation in your season) vs. a confirmed RESERVED week. This is the important distinction that many are blurring.

It is my (legal) opinion that any process that sets up percentages to determine reservations violates the covenants. This is based upon a reading of the covenants.

If Marriott owns or controls certain weeks they have to reserve just like any other owner (except they don't get 13 mo. priority) with no built-in advantage or automatic allocation, then put that RESERVED week into its points program.

My post above which refers to a "catch 22" illustrates the problem.

What happens to the old contracts at resorts where this clause is absent too? They are from before the time when the 13 months' reservation perk came into being? I am curious as I am convinced that it wasn't in our contract.

I am sorry but I don't understand what you explained in post #2797. Am I right to assume that nobody is losing any rights that originally came with the deed but it is still on a first come first service basis like it used to be before? Does it mean too that people from other resorts will have to wait or not? That isn't yet clear.

 

[taffy19]

2/3 of the way to 1000 views. My day is complete

Where or how do you find that? Please, explain. Thanks.

 

[m61376]

Where or how do you find that? Please, explain. Thanks.

You can see the number of views on the Marriott Board page, by where the time and poster of the last thread is, next to the number of replies.

 

[taffy19]

You can see the number of views on the Marriott Board page, by where the time and poster of the last thread is, next to the number of replies.

Thanks. The thread is very popular, I notice. One thing though, I like the title a lot better than what we had before. This may be our last day then to post in this thread because tomorrowSunday, the facts will be posted, I hope.

PS. I meant Sunday. I never know what date or day it is.

 

[davidvel]

What happens to the old contracts at resorts where this clause is absent too? They are from before the time when the 13 months' reservation perk came into being? I am curious as I am convinced that it wasn't in our contract.

If not, Marriott and your HOA are likely violating your rights. (It is my opinion that even under the 13 month rule, only owners with two or more weeks at the same resort can reserve at that resort, but that's for another thread.)

I am sorry but I don't understand what you explained in post #2797. Am I right to assume that nobody is losing any rights that originally came with the deed but it is still on a first come first service basis like it used to be before?

Yes, unless they voluntarily give up their rights.

Does it mean too that people from other resorts will have to wait or not? That isn't yet clear.

I don't know what Marriott will do, these are only my (legal) opinions as to what they legally can do.

 

[SueDonJ]

... (It is my opinion that even under the 13 month rule, only owners with two or more weeks at the same resort can reserve at that resort, but that's for another thread.) ...

No sense clogging up the board with another thread ...

I know the docs you've posted for your resort stipulate that the multi-weeks can only be reserved at that same resort, but not all of the resorts' docs contain the same language. SurfWatch's definitely do not. So why do you think that Marriott should be enforcing something across the board that's not in all the docs, instead of the way they do it which adheres to the docs with the less restrictive language? I get that you don't see what gives them the right as the management company to uniformly enforce reservation rules when there are obvious differences in the docs of the different resorts. But I don't understand, am asking, why you think that if they are going to apply a uniform policy, it should be the more restrictive one?

 

[LAX Mom]

2/3 of the way to 1000 views. My day is complete

Happy to help!

I got bored with the other thread (all the speculation without facts) a long time ago. I see no point in speculating until we have some facts to consider.

 

[andrea t]

I confess...I took the bait!

 

[dougp26364]

2/3 of the way to 1000 views. My day is complete

I'm thinking that this is a lot like tossing fish food into the water and watching the fish go nuts trying to get at it. Nothing like a group of timeshare owners starved for the latest information. Hook, line and sinker Fletch.

At least there's now some clue as to what resale owners will pay to get in.

 

[davidvel]

No sense clogging up the board with another thread ...

I know the docs you've posted for your resort stipulate that the multi-weeks can only be reserved at that same resort, but not all of the resorts' docs contain the same language. SurfWatch's definitely do not. So why do you think that Marriott should be enforcing something across the board that's not in all the docs, instead of the way they do it which adheres to the docs with the less restrictive language? I get that you don't see what gives them the right as the management company to uniformly enforce reservation rules when there are obvious differences in the docs of the different resorts. But I don't understand, am asking, why you think that if they are going to apply a uniform policy, it should be the more restrictive one?

You are right Sue, I have only read the governing docs for Shadow Ridge. I cannot vouch for others. It is my understnading that most resorts (except the oldest) have the same covenant language, although the reality is there is no exactly uniform language. For a legal perspective, each resort (and its underlying deeds and covenants) are legally distinct with nothing in common but a management company. Your example is like having a common management company for 2 condos with completely different rules and just applying the least restrictive rules to both.

Strictly speaking my comments should be that my HOA (Shadow Ridge Owners assn) and its manager Marriott cannot (legally in my opinion) allow anyone who does not own two weeks at Shadow Ridge to reserve at 13 months in advance. What other Associations allow is subject to their particular covenants. I'm happy to debate it in a new thread, but dont; want to cheat the Aruba thread.

 

[NJDave]

So, does anyone have them yet ?

It's my day off and I was bored

You could have spent the day contacting your friends at Marriott to find out 100% of the details!

A bunch of Tuggers will have to either calll in sick on Monday or be unproductive at work if we don't get the details before then.

 

[dioxide45]

Just a guess, MVCI got caught with more unsold inventory than anyone in the industry but they still only have probably about 25% unsold. The bad news is thats billions of dollars.

This sounds like a number I can better believe than the 60%. 25% is still a lot and is years worth of inventory, even in a points system. The problem is that Marriott can easily sell prime weeks just about any day, but those off weeks are what they have trouble moving. This points system lets them now sell a prime week to every buyer.

Besides Marco and perhaps Lakeshore, whose sales probably were decimated by the economy, what percent of those weeks are Plat. weeks and what percent Silver and Bronze? Is this new system really a sales-tool to sell those less desirable weeks?

Lakeshore is ahead of sales pace. Marco could never sell out so the points will save it. Oceana is another thats doing average at best.

It is a shame about Marco, it is a great location that Marriott bought at the top of the boom, truly a lost gamble. It happens. They took their markdowns and now the only way to sell it is with points. They can sell the prime weeks there all over again

That is if this thing even happens, I still think it is all just a rumor.

 

[dioxide45]

Here is the thing about split inventory. Marriott really doesn't need to to it. They know that x% of people never bother to even book a week, so they know that they can book points people in to just about any resort and still know that they have that cushion to reserve to the people in weeks that are guaranteed a week. In the beginning points people will be in the minority and will be for a very long time, possibly forever. Marriott knows they also have their own inventory that they can put up to cover points people. The problem occurs when they reserve a points owner in to a sold out season. Marriott probably also has some limited prime weeks that they are holding on to from foreclosures. You may see Marriott exercise ROFR on prime seasons just so they can put them in to the trust.

You will still see lots of weeks show up in II, they may be less prime and it may take a little longer, but there will be plenty to be had.

 

[dioxide45]

ROFR Database

What does this mean for my database? It isn't set up to handle points. Not looking forward to an update

 

[jlf58]

done and done

 

[dioxide45]

2/3 of the way to 1000 views. My day is complete

Only a few more to go. Cutting yourself short. You set your goal at 1000 and then consider it a success at only 2/3? That doesn't sound like success to me, though you will still succeed in the end.

 

[dioxide45]

The interesting thing about the Aruba thread vs. the new points system one is that the Aruba thread has about 30,000 more views than the new system. That would indicate more people are participating in the points system, where there were more lookieloos in the Aruba one.

 

[jlf58]

see, thats why I am successful. Its a numbers game and 2/3 at that time of day means it was a lock LOL

Only a few more to go. Cutting yourself short. You set your goal at 1000 and then consider it a success at only 2/3? That doesn't sound like success to me, though you will still succeed in the end.