Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[davidvel]

It seems we are over-complicating the issue of a need for separate inventory or not. I don't see it being any different than it is now. II allows split weeks, etc. In a sense they have a "separate inventory" pool of weeks, which they then supply in accordance with their rules.

The new points system will simply be an amalgam of "owner's" weeks that have "deposited" their week into the points system. The "owner" will either be legacy owners in the points program or the Marriott points trust. Once the "week" gets into the points program, Marriott supplies them in accordance with the points program rules, no different than II (or Redweek, or rci...).

What people have asked multiple times (and a rational fear) is whether Marriott can allow either legacy owners in the points program, or the Marriott trust, to reserve with any advantage over those not in the points program. The answer to this from a legal prospective is NO.

Whatever form of overlay they employ, they cannot alter your current right to reserve your week, in your season, on the same basis of ANY OTHER DEED HOLDER in your season (this includes the Marriott trust or legacy owner in the points program.) They cannot use their internal computers to reserve to your disadvantage, etc..

The interesting part will be if Marriott contends that the Points Trust owns multiple weeks and is a separate entity from MVCI/"the declarant", thereby giving all those weeks the 13 month advantage. If so, lawsuits will definitely follow.

The only way that I can see them legally employing the system if they reserve in an automated system is to allow non-points users some prior of time to reserve their week (ie. 5 business days), then reserve any weeks for the deeds they hold.

But, this would not leave a lot of great weeks for their program. This would lead to their argument that they can automatically reserve a proportionate amount of available weeks based upon the deeds in the points program. While it seems fair and equitable, my opinion is that it would be a violation of the covenants. Quite a catch-22.

 

[winger]

I could not buy anything because I'm too cheap to spend $1499 on either. :rofl:

I wonder if it is actually going to be $1499.95, to be exact.

Wow, that is alot of $$$ to be giving away to Marriott, esp in these economic times. For some people, that is a monthly mortgage payment or a kids' monthly tuition (LOL, it is scary how expensive private high schools cost now), etc... and if one were to be layed off from work tomorrow, how bad it would feel to have spent that $1499.95 on an 'enhancement'.

 

[pedro47]

Even an old man got the coded message.

 

[tlwmkw]

I'm not completely up to date on this thread (it's too long for me to read it all when not much is really known) but I do have something to add.

We're off to HHI next week and got a call from the "Platinum Account Representative" (new name for the concierge?) last night- he said "It's an exciting time here because we are currently training for our new Marriott system, and we want to have you come and get a presentation about it while you are here". He claimed that all the sales offices are closed on Thurs/Fri/Sat for training. He had been in training all day yesterday and will be again today and tomorrow, then the big roll out on Sunday (funny day to start it if you ask me). I then began to quiz him for details and he clammed up which I thought was odd. He said "I can't say anything until I have all the details to present to you". The gist of what he said is that they want to present this info in person and not via e-mail or phone call. Regardless he confirmed that something is coming but why all the cloak and dagger? Sounded a little weird to me. This may all have been covered earlier in the thread but I'm not reading through all the posts to see if it was or not.

tlwmkw

 

[winger]

Even an old man got the coded message.

Come on, none of us here on TUG are OLD; we are all young at heart and play (and travel)

 

[tlwmkw]

Fletch,

Here's another post to get you closer to that 1000 mark. $1499 sounds like a lot just to convert- it'll be interesting to see what the response is. At that price I don't see many folks going for it unless there are some really great benefits.

Pump your ex-coworkers and get us all the juicy info you can. Enquiring minds want to know.

tlwmkw

 

[NJMOM2]

Everyone is worried where Marriott is going to get the week from when a legacy owner converts to points in a given year. I can't help but wonder where does Marriott currently get the week from for their use when an owner opts to use get Marriott Rewards Points in a given year? Wouldn't it be the same issue?

 

[taffy19]

How about this? Marriott has several point packages of different amount of points. The package with the most points will give you the chance to make reservations earlier but you can always buy more points to arrive there later too.

However, a legacy owner will always keep the right of booking seven days together but they will never be the most desirable weeks again like we had in the old system unless he buys more points. This already happened in the old system as I found this out first hand so had to try the next week again until a week was available. How will they solve this problem if too many week-ends are reserved? Will they copy the plan that Hyatt has in place?

 

[Swice]

He claimed that all the sales offices are closed on Thurs/Fri/Sat for training. He had been in training all day yesterday and will be again today and tomorrow, then the big roll out on Sunday (funny day to start it if you ask me).
tlwmkw

From a business perspective, I do wonder why they would still be training on a Saturday? Is Saturday not a big tour/presentation day?

 

[timtax]

Platinum Plus

It sounds like a Platinum Plus owner who uses their timeshare each year should just hang on to their deed and avoid the new system. The MF will be cheaper at MOW than the average for the points pool and no one can get in front of them in line for a reservation.

 

[tombo]

Just curious if a statement made the other day was correct. It was stated that Marriott currently owns 60% of the total inventory at all Marriott resorts. If that is true and as stated Marriott puts 100% of it's inventory in the points pool which will not (might not) be available to Legacy owners, then there will only be 40% of the entire Marriott inventory available for legacy owners day one before they convert the first Legacy owner to points. So instead of having access to 100% of the inventory in my season like I do now, starting June 21'st will I only have access to 40% of the combined inventory of Marriott resorts worldwide? If this is true it won't take a long time to see reduced access to exchange inventory as more and more owners convert, access will become severelly reduced Monday.

 

[PerryM]

Who would have thought - Marriott a WM want-to-be

It sounds like a Platinum Plus owner who uses their timeshare each year should just hang on to their deed and avoid the new system. The MF will be cheaper at MOW than the average for the points pool and no one can get in front of them in line for a reservation.

In the various gyrations of the rumors we have journeyed from:

• 100% Week system
• Sitting on top system
• Trust based system
• Sitting on top system married to a Trust system

Right now the rumors point towards any Marriott owner with 2 or more weeks, of any kind, to just join and pay the $695 before it skyrockets to something much higher.

What's the harm beside paying $695 pro-rated over 2+ weeks?

None that I can think of, except a yearly $169 membership fee.

Then when we know more about the system decisions can be made as to what to do.

Unless something is revealed beyond what we can cook up I don't see me paying $595 for our Gold Summit Watch to enter Points. I see me using II and who knows what I will snag.

The conversion can probably be done on a website with folks notarizing a 4-page document; just like I've done with WM 3 times.

Marriott will be chugging down the Points route and could even morph into a destination club where they don't spend $500M to buy and develop a huge 500 villa resort but just start buying $2M - $4M condos and sell Points to pay back the money in one weekend. A Trust based Point system is very powerful and flexible.

But as it stands I am glad to see Marriott take the high road and step over some of the dirty tricks other developers have pulled on their owners.

P.S.
Its funny to think of all the comments against WM over the years when Marriott is about to become a WM want-to-be. They are Trust based and 100% Points and can reserve as few as 2 days (even 1 day under special circumstances) up to 60 days in one click of the mouse.

 

[timtax]

Higher Annual MF

What's the harm beside paying $695 pro-rated over 2+ weeks?


I would think the MF of the trust would be higher for a Platinum Plus owner.
Why pay the fee to simply pay more in MF?

 

[PerryM]

What's the harm beside paying $695 pro-rated over 2+ weeks?


I would think the MF of the trust would be higher for a Platinum Plus owner.
Why pay the fee to simply pay more in MF?

MF exactly the same for Legacy owners - no change.

Yes there is a yearly fee of $169, forgot about that.

 

[Latravel]

Hmmm. It could have been a much higher price from what I hear other programs have charged to "upgrade".

 

[GaryDouglas]

From a business perspective, I do wonder why they would still be training on a Saturday? Is Saturday not a big tour/presentation day?

Since most resorts have a Friday-Saturday-Sunday checkin, most tours are between Monday and Thursday.

 

[davidvel]

Everyone is worried where Marriott is going to get the week from when a legacy owner onverts to points in a given year. I can't help but wonder where does Marriott currently get the week from for their use when an owner opts to use get Marriott Rewards Points in a given year? Wouldn't it be the same issue?

Bingo

 

[davidvel]

Just curious if a statement made the other day was correct. It was stated that Marriott currently owns 60% of the total inventory at all Marriott resorts. If that is true and as stated Marriott puts 100% of it's inventory in the points pool which will not (might not) be available to Legacy owners, then there will only be 40% of the entire Marriott inventory available for legacy owners day one before they convert the first Legacy owner to points. So instead of having access to 100% of the inventory in my season like I do now, starting June 21'st will I only have access to 40% of the combined inventory of Marriott resorts worldwide? If this is true it won't take a long time to see reduced access to exchange inventory as more and more owners convert, access will become severelly reduced Monday.

Its not about YOU having access to 100% of inventory. Using your hypothetical: 100% of owners (including marriott) had access to 100% of the total weeks. In your scenario, 40% of the owners will have access to the remaining 40% of the weeks. The $1M question is which 40% of weeks go into the points pool, and how...

 

[Tommy_Boy]

Sorry to say it, but...

I TOLD YOU SO!!!! (maybe not you, in particular, but check back to posts I made several months ago, and you will see)...

All the over the top proclamations of pending doom, cataclysmic price and ownership rights collapse and then poof - everything is hunky dory and the shine is back on Marriott when in fact nothing has yet been officially offered to anyone. Not likely but it still COULD be the thing will never even exist (I don't actually think that).

What a train wreck THIS thread turned out to be. All along this was a relatively common, points based system rumored to be offered as an option to make Marriott some more money and maybe make owners/buyers happier than they were with the old choices. It ended up so overblown that (hopefully) nothing like it can happen again. Who would ever want to waste the time and effort like this again for an ultimately meaningless exercise in generating far too many web pages of babble, rants and hyperbole. Help! I apologize for my helping it on as it simply became way out of hand.

Take all of the advice, comments and proclamations as worth exactly what you paid for them. They aren't worth even that IMO. Hopefully the facts will be on the table within a few days and finally only those will be in play.

 

[Swice]

Sunday

I bet tuggers who normally stay away from the tours will be scrambling tonight and tomorrow as they check in to sign up for the Sunday morning times!!!! :rofl:

Who is signed up??

 

[DanCali]

Just curious if a statement made the other day was correct. It was stated that Marriott currently owns 60% of the total inventory at all Marriott resorts. If that is true and as stated Marriott puts 100% of it's inventory in the points pool which will not (might not) be available to Legacy owners, then there will only be 40% of the entire Marriott inventory available for legacy owners day one before they convert the first Legacy owner to points. So instead of having access to 100% of the inventory in my season like I do now, starting June 21'st will I only have access to 40% of the combined inventory of Marriott resorts worldwide? If this is true it won't take a long time to see reduced access to exchange inventory as more and more owners convert, access will become severelly reduced Monday.

Maybe so - but Marriott probably owns less Platinum weeks and more Gold and Silver weeks.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

Does anyone know how to get in contact with your sale agent? I used one over 8 years ago and I know she still works for Marriott as she called the other day but I didn't take her call. Anyways... does Marriott use a specific e-mail format like first.lastname@mvci.com I was going to try and e-mail her to get some details about the new program. I won't be at a Marriott resort for a long time probably not until next year. I rented all of my weeks this year. So, I wonder how we'd find out about the program if we don't visit this year. My 2 other friends that own Marriott have no clue about the new program.

 

[hipslo]

Everyone is worried where Marriott is going to get the week from when a legacy owner onverts to points in a given year. I can't help but wonder where does Marriott currently get the week from for their use when an owner opts to use get Marriott Rewards Points in a given year? Wouldn't it be the same issue?

This is a GREAT question, and one I hadnt thought of before. Anyone know the answer?

 

[LAX Mom]

So, does anyone have them yet ?

It's my day off and I was bored, sorry LOL

Very amusing!

I've followed the other thread some, but haven't been pulled into the speculation. I figure I'll wait until the details are released then evaluate the new program. We need a new computer, but even if we didn't I doubt I'd pay $1,499 to convert to the new program.

 

[taffy19]

And in the end, the points you get are equal to the points you buy -The Beatles

All the over the top proclamations of pending doom, cataclysmic price and ownership rights collapse and then poof - everything is hunky dory and the shine is back on Marriott when in fact nothing has yet been officially offered to anyone. Not likely but it still COULD be the thing will never even exist (I don't actually think that).

What a train wreck THIS thread turned out to be. All along this was a relatively common, points based system rumored to be offered as an option to make Marriott some more money and maybe make owners/buyers happier than they were with the old choices. It ended up so overblown that (hopefully) nothing like it can happen again. Who would ever want to waste the time and effort like this again for an ultimately meaningless exercise in generating far too many web pages of babble, rants and hyperbole. Help! I apologize for my helping it on as it simply became way out of hand.

Take all of the advice, comments and proclamations as worth exactly what you paid for them. They aren't worth even that IMO. Hopefully the facts will be on the table within a few days and finally only those will be in play.

The Beatles' quote may be true but the reason that this thread is so long is that someone started rumors floating around and Marriott didn't put a stop to it until the last few weeks. Most of us are worried how the new system will affect what we currently own as nobody wants to end up with less than we had before in case we do or do not convert.

The new point system may be great but it has to work well with the old system too and that's why we are speculating. I already know that I will get my fixed week/unit back, if I would switch back and forward between the points or Legacy weeks but still wonder what to do.

This long thread will help many to ask the right questions before signing the dotted line and if Marriott reads this by any chance, they can prepare a long list of Q&As so they don't have to answer the same questions over and over again.

I know that most TUGgers love the floating week system and I never did but, in this case, it pays off to own a fixed week and/or unit as it is part of the deed so cannot change. I also hope that Marriott will roll out a system that is friendly towards their current customer base as it will pay off for them in the future. We are their best prospects to buy more points because we like to travel to their new destinations once they start building again.