Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[suenmike32]

As dopey as I may sound....I hope whatever statement that is released by Marriott has a clear definition of what a "legacy week" and a "point's week" is.
My current 4 Marriott's are all "resale deeded" units.
Marriott sales personnel may not like "re-sale buyers", but in reality at some point even the most die-hard "developer purchaser" may very well seek to sell their units. Perhaps they have no heirs, their kids can't afford the MF or any # of reasons. Unfortunately, sales-personnel only focus on the "points perks" when trying to sell.
But realistically, sooner or later...just like death and taxes, many owners will ultimately have to sell (or donate) their units.
Marriott can't buy them all back, (although virtually every salesperson that I've spoken to in a sales presentation will say that they will...they just don't say that it make take years.
Tomorrow or Monday is going to be very interesting.

 

[abdibile]

I would bet that the number will not have a 9 as a last digit.

That is not the Marriott way.

 

[Frisbeeace]

Buy where you want to go (a lesson I learned from TUG) and it won't make a difference what the new program is.

We either go to Ko'Olina or Shadow Ridge and we have the option of trading our two developer units for points if we choose not to go. Works for me. I don't think the new program will interfere with this strategy.

A valid statement among tons of speculations. Most of the other posts have too many "ifs" and "whethers"...

 

[dioxide45]

I would bet that the number will not have a 9 as a last digit.

That is not the Marriott way.

There is a fairly consistent pattern of 9s here.

Occupancy Option Current Fee in U.S. Dollars
Daily Use 29.00*
Lock-Off Use 75.00
Reservation Change 29.00
Split Use 75.00
Split Daily Use Fee 75.00**
Trade For Marriott Rewards Points U.S., CAN, U.S.V.I. 109.00
Trade For Marriott Rewards Points International 129.00

I thought that the trade for points option was only $104, when did that go up by $5?

 

[laurac260]

can someone wake me when we have REAL news?? :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

 

[taffy19]

Speculation until either Sunday or Monday. I've read both days as the release date for the new program.

I heard that the sales people can discuss the new system on Sunday but the email will be sent on Monday. I don't know when they start doing tours.

 

[dioxide45]

I heard that the sales people can discuss the new system on Sunday but the email will be sent on Monday. I don't know when they start doing tours.

Wonder when the new website becomes active?

 

[davidvel]

So up until Thursday the deeded weeks system was the best thing ever and everyone should have been buying to get the best of both worlds. Tomorrow or Monday the old weeks system will be the worst thing ever with every sales guy touting how the points system is best. You can always toss the resale option out there and hear the spew about how that is bad, then throw back at them that just last week you were selling those weeks as the best thing ever and the best of both worlds. They will probably retort with some lie about resales being excluded or something.

Don't forget anyone can buy a resale deed and be governed by the old rules if they choose.

 

[dioxide45]

Don't forget anyone can buy a resale deed and be governed by the old rules if they choose.

Very true, but those old rules don't have to include allowing them the ability to opt in and out of points as has been suggested current legacy owners will be able to do.

 

[davidvel]

In California at least all TS developers have to prepare, submit and distribute (upon request of prospective purchasers) a Public Report ("White Paper.") This document summarizes all of the rights obligations, reservation procedures etc. set forth in the timeshare. I will try to get a copy for Shadow Ridge.

 

[GregT]

Very true, but those old rules don't have to include allowing them the ability to opt in and out of points as has been suggested current legacy owners will be able to do.

I would think that Marriott will allow future resale owners to opt into the points program?

Why wouldn't they? The future owner might pay the $595 up-front and commit to the $169 annual fee? That's the annuity that Marriott really wants, and they won't be interested in protecting their deeds pricing.

And I think they'll start ROFRing the best Platinums (especially the ones with the Deeded weeks that are high TDI)

I think the date of the Deed for floating properties will become important (or at least a factor).

I continue to think there will be two pools of inventory -- legacy deeded weeks and the deeded weeks held by Marriott (even if just for one year due to a legacy point converter). This will prevent the criticism of Marriott that they are gaming the reservation system and create clearly defined inventories of both.

We will see!

all the best,

Greg

 

[dioxide45]

Oh, I think Marriott will allow future resale owners to opt in/out each year also if they pay the upfront fee. I just don't think that is what sales people will tell prospective buyers if they bring up the word "resale".

There are a lot of things Marriott allows resale buyers to do that the sales staff says they don't.

 

[dougp26364]

But it can be written in to the documents that the trust manager must vote based on proxies voted by the owners in that trust. Not sure how that would work with a trust owning many different resorts.

My thought is that the trust will have a board of trustees and owners in the trust will vote for people on that board. The board will then vote on who they want to be on the individual resort boards. This can turn out to be very bad for deeded owners as once the trust gets enough control, they could vote in people to the individual boards who then put up a vote to dissolve the resorts or deeded ownerships. That vote is then put to the owners, and now that the trust has majority ownership, out go the deeded owners and the developer has strong armed their way back in.

Do you think Marriott will give up that much control by allowing trust members to vote? It would be a good thing for owners if they do. If they're like other trusts I'm aware of, that won't be the case. The trust manager will make all decisions as to what's good or bad for the trust.

Dang, I'm starting to sound like Perry with all this negative talk.

 

[dougp26364]

Oh, I think Marriott will allow future resale owners to opt in/out each year also if they pay the upfront fee. I just don't think that is what sales people will tell prospective buyers if they bring up the word "resale".

There are a lot of things Marriott allows resale buyers to do that the sales staff says they don't.

They could also require that resale buyers purchase at least a few points at developer pricing to convert a resale deed into the points program. I don't see Marriott locking out the potential income resale buyers might now have to bring to the table. Instead I see Marriott giving resale buyers a pathway into full Marriott ownership rights.........for a price.

 

[JimIg23]

did the system start today or does it start Monday?

 

[dioxide45]

did the system start today or does it start Monday?

Rumored to be Sunday or Monday. Not today.

 

[Dean]

So up until Thursday the deeded weeks system was the best thing ever and everyone should have been buying to get the best of both worlds. Tomorrow or Monday the old weeks system will be the worst thing ever with every sales guy touting how the points system is best. You can always toss the resale option out there and hear the spew about how that is bad, then throw back at them that just last week you were selling those weeks as the best thing ever and the best of both worlds. They will probably retort with some lie about resales being excluded or something.

Depends on who you ask. Personally I've said many times I would prefer Marriott with a good points system, lets see if they come out with a good one.

This can be true especially with trust based ownerships if it's written into the contract that the trust manager has lattitude to change the rules as they see fit. Remember, the trust manager votes for the trust. Individual owners don't vote.

I wanted to revisit this post as I failed to make a very important point. The voting rep for the units has a legal fiduciary responsibility to the owners and if they violate that responsibility they are at risk.

It appears to start tomorrow. HH was scheduling tours effective tomorrow.

 

[m61376]

So who is going to be the first Tugger taking the first tour of the morning to get concrete information?

 

[Darlene]

I was on the phone with II. They were trying to get me to deposit my 2011 Marriott week. I said no. I'm waiting to hear more about Marriott's new program. She began spouting out numbers, program fees, conversions fees, she seemed to know quite a bit about what II's role would be. She said you can convert to Marriotts new program for about $7,000, then you can take your points and deposit them with us for exchanges. But then she said it would be best for me to call them, and gave me the number to call for owner services. When I got someone from Marriott owner services on the line, she said I can't tell you anything about that, and I can't tell you when I can tell you about. She said I'm surprised you know anything about it at all. She said as we hung up, just make sure to turn your tv on Monday.
Darlene

 

[Slakk]

I was on the phone with II. They were trying to get me to deposit my 2011 Marriott week. I said no. I'm waiting to hear more about Marriott's new program. She began spouting out numbers, program fees, conversions fees, she seemed to know quite a bit about what II's role would be. She said you can convert to Marriotts new program for about $7,000, then you can take your points and deposit them with us for exchanges. But then she said it would be best for me to call them, and gave me the number to call for owner services. When I got someone from Marriott owner services on the line, she said I can't tell you anything about that, and I can't tell you when I can tell you about. She said I'm surprised you know anything about it at all. She said as we hung up, just make sure to turn your tv on Monday.
Darlene

Hmmm I have been lurking and following this. I actually own at DVC and like the points system just am tired of vacationing at WDW (the reason we have 2 EOY with Marriott). If the price is $7000 then I know I will definitely pass - heck I think that is more than my EOY St Kitts cost me to buy LOL.

We will be in St Kitts in a few weeks and plan to take the tour, I really cannot imagine a price tag at 7K would entice anyone but I guess I will just sit back and see when the details come out.

 

[NJDave]

Since we are speculating here's what I think would make sense using numbers we have heard.

Introductory price - $595 one timeshare; $695 multiple units

After introduction (two months) - $1,495

Smallest point product for sale - $7,000 (I think it would actually be higher though) - allows you to convert existing resale to points as well.

 

[dougp26364]

Since we are speculating here's what I think would make sense using numbers we have heard.

Introductory price - $595 one timeshare; $695 multiple units

After introduction (two months) - $1,495

Smallest point product for sale - $7,000 (I think it would actually be higher though) - allows you to convert existing resale to points as well.

I'm thinking $595 one timeshare, $695 multiple timeshares, $1,495 resale purchased timeshares. But, according to Fletch, $1,495 might be the price for everyone. We can find out for real tomorrow.

 

[wsrobinson]

They are rolling it out tomorrow.

 

[RandR]

Here is what I have learned from these 2000+ posts.

Buy where you want to go (a lesson I learned from TUG) and it won't make a difference what the new program is.

We either go to Ko'Olina or Shadow Ridge and we have the option of trading our two developer units for points if we choose not to go. Works for me. I don't think the new program will interfere with this strategy.

I have said this several times, but I do not agree with this statement. IF Marriott lets points owners try and reserve at the same time as legacy owners and they don't "separate" inventory on a week by week basis, legacy owners will have a higher likelihood of getting shut out of the best weeks. This is because anyone with enough points would now be trying for the weeks instead of just owners of that specific resort in that specific season.

 

[dougp26364]

I have said this several times, but I do not agree with this statement. IF Marriott lets points owners try and reserve at the same time as legacy owners and they don't "separate" inventory on a week by week basis, legacy owners will have a higher likelihood of getting shut out of the best weeks. This is because anyone with enough points would now be trying for the weeks instead of just owners of that specific resort in that specific season.

Despite Perry's unwillingness to see the necessity of seperating inventory, Marriott will seperate inventory. They have no choice. They can not allow points members to reserve every week in a season and not leave any inventory for those that own those deeded weeks. Marriott can only allow points members to reserve what has been deposited into the points account for each resort. Therefore, there WILL be seperate inventory's. This is one thing I am certain of without seeing anything official.