Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[ocdb8r]

There is no excess inventory. Nobody said all resorts have to have the same total points. Here is a simple illustrative example:

Say the system has just two resorts: Maui and Aruba. For simplicity, they are all 2R units - no lockoffs. Resorts are the same size. Maui is 1-52 Platinum and Aruba is 51-21 Platinum and 22-50 Gold (I know the weeks are not necessarity accurate and I'm ignoring Platinum Plus). Before any change it was possible for all Aruba Owners to go to Maui if all Maui owners wanted to go to Aruba. 1 week for 1 week.

Now say Platinum gets 200 points and Gold 100 points. The total points given in the system is equal to the points available for trading. there is no excess inventory.... However, Aruba Gold owners now get 5 days in Hawaii while Hawaii owners can go for 10 days to Aruba in Gold season. While Aruba Gold is now relatively more attractive for Hawaii owners, if some people get 10 day trades (for each two Aruba Gold owners who go to Hawaii) not all Hawaii owners can trade there because the weeks will get exhausted. They will have to go to their home resort or trade Aruba Platinum. Also, if Aruba Gold owners dislike their new trading opportunities, they will rent or use their home weeks, in which case nobody trades to Aruba Gold.

In any case, since the total "inventory" in the system is determined by the points available to trade, there is no excess inventory. Excess or lack of inventory may happen if you give an owner in a Gold week 100 points to trade with but say it takes 200 points to trade into his week (or vice versa).

Agreed...but this fails to consider the experience we currently have with II. There is in fact excess inventory in the system from unsold weeks, unused weeks, and trades out of the system. If there is no excess inventory how are some of us able to turn our 2 bedroom lockoff into TWO 2 bedrooms throughout the year in II? Some owners are even able to stretch that to THREE with the provision of AC's.

My point was this: What if a current Platinum owner uses II, splitting a lockoff and receiving an AC. In return lets say they end up with two 2 bedrooms and one studio for their trades. In the future, rather than playing II roulette, they opt for the more guaranteed internal Marriott system that gets them a guaranteed(time and place) reservation. If they go for a Platinum week at another resort they are likely to get a 1-1 trade...if they go for Gold they may be able to stretch their platinum points to 10 or 11 days but I doubt it would be double (I agree that this is all speculation on how the point values would be set up, but I don't see Marriott doing anything drastically different). Therefore, the Marriott system has resulted in less use...creating MORE excess.

Before everyone tears up my example, I agree, I have used the most extreme scenario to demonstrate my point. However, I do think that in general with II, Marriott owners trade equal or up. I don't buy that there are a ton of owners depositing their platinum studios into II in exchange for bronze weeks. Picture even an average user who take the 1 bedroom at their home resort and deposits the studio into II. Many receive a 1 bedroom or better in exchange for their studio. If they choose to use the internal system and are constrained to a more 1-1 basis, there will still be more excess than currently.

 

[kjd]

More proof needed

I'd like to see a little more proof that "the number one complaint of Marriott owners is I.I.". While one can report on any sort of a "phantom survey" I have not heard any anecdotal evidence at any of the owners update meetings that indicate I.I. is a problem. I always make it a point to attend these meetings.

It is doubtful that the sales staff has heard this complaint from many prospective buyers because buyers usually have little or no knowledge of how timeshare exchange systems work. Where is this information coming from?

First and foremost Marriott is a hospitality management company. After an early start at owning a restaurant in Washington D.C. and then morphing into an airline catering business, Marriott is now an international hotelier. While timeshare sales were quoted here to be around 700 million (or whatever) last year, they are not a large segment of Marriott's businesses. They recently cited a loss of timeshare profits in their quarterly report.

Timeshare operations do provide profits to Marriott corp on a fully integrated basis. Everything from the MRP's, VISA credit cards, hotel management, resort association management all drive profits to the bottom line. It's inconceivable to me that a few timeshare sales staff or executives could significantly influence the direction of Marriott's business plan.

Marriott makes a nice buck from managing timeshare resorts by charging maintenance fees. Does anyone really believe these fees will go down? In this respect I doubt Marriott cares how you acquired your timeshare as long as you pay your annual maintenance fee. I don't believe that Marriott is out to get anyone. More likely it's a few disgruntled sales staff or executives who did not make their sales quotas.

A new exchange system could be in the works. If it becomes a reality I think it will benefit everyone including Marriott. Otherwise, they won't do it. By the way, not everyone who owns DVC is happy.

 

[PerryM]

Warning: Math ahead.....

Exactly my point. A new points system will create people who are better off (likely Platinum is most resorts?) and worse off (likely all owners who do not own Platinum season, and even Platinum season in places like Orlando and possibly Vegas?).

Even if one is better off initially, the fact that so many owners will be worse off than they are now with their trading options should concern us all...

The new resort will hawked as the "Great Equalizer" - where Bronze is just as good as Platinum Plus Holiday - that's why Marriott created this beast.

The salesreps will now have the tool to hawk the doggy weeks that they now are missing. Bronze, Silver, and Gold weeks pay exactly the same MF as Platinum and are critical to the sales effort. Here's how the sales pitch will go:

"Can't afford that $55 grand for a Platinum Plus Holiday week? No problem - simply buy 1 Gold week, deposit them, and borrow points from next year after you wait a year and you can then vacation at the Platinum Plus Holiday level - just sign here.

Any good Points system lets you "Bank" Points forward 1 year and "Borrow" Points from 1 year. Here's an example:

Platinum Plus Holiday week generates 55,000 Points each year.

• 1 Gold week generates 20,000 Points each year.
• Bank this years 20,000 points for usage next year.
• Next year borrow 20,000 points from the year before.

You will have 60,000 Points in your account next year.

You can now reserve a Platinum Plus Holiday week just like the poor schmuck who paid $55,000 and you only paid $20,000.

Am I a great salesrep or what".

Since each owner paid the same FM our Gold member paid 3 times the MF to vacation but that will be lost in sales pitch.

This is why Marriott wants this system so bad...

P.S.

In the above system why on earth would they want my Gold week in that system - they already sold it 15 years ago to someone. $2,500 sounds too low to allow me access to their Platinum weeks.

P.P.S.
The system will be awash in doggy weeks - all the Platinums will be snapped up and the moaning and groaning about doggy weeks will replace "II sucks". Marriott will probably force all members into 3-year contracts because of the bank/borrow capability and by the time you realize that you are fighting for Platinum weeks with EVERY owner its too late folks...

Like I said this is a sales tool for Marriott and you mean nothing to them.

 

[ocdb8r]

Any good Points system lets you "Bank" Points forward 1 year and "Borrow" Points from 1 year.

I disagree. DVC and Worldmark are the only brand name systems that allow this level of flexibility. All the others have extreme restrictions on banking and borrowing, usually limiting them to last minute reservations (within 30 or 60 days of checkin). Both were initially sold with this flexibility specifically in mind so that users who didn't want to vacation at a timeshare every year could buy smaller point packages and bank or borrow to timeshare every 2 or three years.
DVC even retains the right to restrict banking and borrowing in the future...

Perry - you seem convinced Marriott is headed toward a "point package" selling system as opposed to just using point to create internal trading. I don't believe this is the route they will go. I see them following more the Starwood/Hyatt/Hilton route where they are still selling actual weeks that just happen to have a corresponding point value. I don't think the sort of liberal banking and borrowing scheme you describe jives with this setup.

 

[PerryM]

I disagree. DVC and Worldmark are the only brand name systems that allow this level of flexibility. All the others have extreme restrictions on banking and borrowing, usually limiting them to last minute reservations (within 30 or 60 days of checkin). Both were initially sold with this flexibility specifically in mind so that users who didn't want to vacation at a timeshare every year could buy smaller point packages and bank or borrow to timeshare every 2 or three years.
DVC even retains the right to restrict banking and borrowing in the future...

Perry - you seem convinced Marriott is headed toward a "point package" selling system as opposed to just using point to create internal trading. I don't believe this is the route they will go. I see them following more the Starwood/Hyatt/Hilton route where they are still selling actual weeks that just happen to have a corresponding point value. I don't think the sort of liberal banking and borrowing scheme you describe jives with this setup.

Well since we are all guessing at this point I consider my guess just as good as anyone else.

Marriott will stop selling weeks and start selling points - sure the actual sale is a week but Points...Points...Points is all they will be hawking - especially if you are a Platinum owner - they need your Platinum week to dangle in front of the Bronze, Silver, and Gold owners.

At least that's what I'd do if I were trying to unload a pile of doggy weeks....

 

[DanCali]

Agreed...but this fails to consider the experience we currently have with II. There is in fact excess inventory in the system from unsold weeks, unused weeks, and trades out of the system. If there is no excess inventory how are some of us able to turn our 2 bedroom lockoff into TWO 2 bedrooms throughout the year in II? Some owners are even able to stretch that to THREE with the provision of AC's.

My point was this: What if a current Platinum owner uses II, splitting a lockoff and receiving an AC. In return lets say they end up with two 2 bedrooms and one studio for their trades. In the future, rather than playing II roulette, they opt for the more guaranteed internal Marriott system that gets them a guaranteed(time and place) reservation. If they go for a Platinum week at another resort they are likely to get a 1-1 trade...if they go for Gold they may be able to stretch their platinum points to 10 or 11 days but I doubt it would be double (I agree that this is all speculation on how the point values would be set up, but I don't see Marriott doing anything drastically different). Therefore, the Marriott system has resulted in less use...creating MORE excess.

I think you underestimate the number of people in II who do deposit 2BR units to secure that 1BR in Hawaii in prime season. There are also people who probably request impossible trades and lose their weeks. On top of that there is also lack of trasparency with II inventory due to developer bulk deposits which happen on occasion.

But speaking of excess inventory and lack of transparency, here is more gossip from the Starwood board.... The way the reservation system works is you can reserve your home resort float period at 12 to 8 months out. Point exchanges happen from 8 months out. Allegedly there is a clause (I haven't seen it) that Starwood can also book units starting from 11 months out based on anticipated hotel point conversions for that year. Yes, it's fair they can book rooms if someone converts to hotel points, but if they do it at 11 months out based on conversions that haven't occured yet what do you think that does to the inventory available for exchanges at 8 months out? Will they reserve low or high demand weeks (and who has the best view into demand)? Possibly the best explanation to why you can't get a July week in Hawaii...

...I'm no Starwood apologist, but as I mentioned before, this is not the case. Despite a very active internal trading system, I am still able to get into Hawaii (both Maui and Kauai) in every month except July.

I'm not sure how Marriott handles hotel point conversions currently but this is just another example how a developer can manipulate a point system in their favor... A new system means new rules and new opportunities for Marriott to introduce these types of hidden ways to benefit it's botton line at owners' expense.

 

[billymach4]

How to turn a doggy week into a horse's @#$
:deadhorse:

 

[ocdb8r]

I think you underestimate the number of people in II who do deposit 2BR units to secure that 1BR in Hawaii in prime season. There are also people who probably request impossible trades and lose their weeks. On top of that there is also lack of trasparency with II inventory due to developer bulk deposits which happen on occasion.

But speaking of excess inventory and lack of transparency, here is more gossip from the Starwood board.... The way the reservation system works is you can reserve your home resort float period at 12 to 8 months out. Point exchanges happen from 8 months out. Allegedly there is a clause (I haven't seen it) that Starwood can also book units starting from 11 months out based on anticipated hotel point conversions for that year. Yes, it's fair they can book rooms if someone converts to hotel points, but if they do it at 11 months out based on conversions that haven't occured yet what do you think that does to the inventory available for exchanges at 8 months out? Will they reserve low or high demand weeks (and who has the best view into demand)? Possibly the best explanation to why you can't get a July week in Hawaii...



I'm not sure how Marriott handles hotel point conversions currently but this is just another example how a developer can manipulate a point system in their favor... A new system means new rules and new opportunities for Marriott to introduce these types of hidden ways to benefit it's botton line at owners' expense.

First, I totally agree with your last statement. The point system will allow Marriott more control of reservation allocation, and they could very well use that to owners detriment.

Second, I should have clarified. My Starwood trades have all been using II. I wanted to point out that despite Starwood's internal system, I get great trades in II with my Starwood weeks. If I wanted to use the internal system I could get Hawaii, even in July, and better options at Harborside....I prefer to be flexible and snag the "upgrades" in II. The only real no go for internal trades is St. John and I think it's just a result of it being a VERY small resort. Some owners are reporting increases success using the internal system since the new phase opened.

Third, as for you concern about hotel point conversions...this should ALREADY be something Marriott owners have looked at. You already have hotel point conversions in the Marriott system...how is Marriott currently allowed to reserve a unit for rental once an owner converts to hotel points? I don't see how a point system for timeshare exchanges affects this (unless they use it as an opportunity to change the rules for hotel point conversions they already have in place....but if they CAN change this setup, couldn't they do that at ANY time?)

 

[DanCali]

Second, I should have clarified. My Starwood trades have all been using II. I wanted to point out that despite Starwood's internal system, I get great trades in II with my Starwood weeks.

But these uprades are not usually trades you get via an ongoing exchange request... To get these upgrades you need to watch II or the sightings board on a daily basis, an impracticality for most people. Also, since you pick up stuff you "see" it is by definition the least desireable invenory left over after ongoing exchange requests (although the bulk banking of dozens of units n the same day helps you get these upgrades). Also, since Starwood selects the weeks it deposits into II and not the owner, it makes it even more likely they are not "prime" weeks. But if those weeks work for you then you are getting the most out of your ownership. A recent Starwood survey suggested that only 4% of owners plan to use II in the coming year, so this is definitely not the main avenue of exchanging in Starwood.

The nice thing about the current Marriott system is the fact that owners pick up prime weeks and deposit them into II virtually guarantess that prime week exchanges are available. In a point system you don't reserve a week in order to exchange it. As hard a summer NCV exchanges are - they will be even less likely in a point system since those will be booked early by people who want to use them. On the flipside, actual Platinum NCV owners may have an easier time reserving summer weeks, but exchanges will be much harder.

You already have hotel point conversions in the Marriott system...how is Marriott currently allowed to reserve a unit for rental once an owner converts to hotel points? I don't see how a point system for timeshare exchanges affects this (unless they use it as an opportunity to change the rules for hotel point conversions they already have in place....but if they CAN change this setup, couldn't they do that at ANY time?)

I didn't buy from Marriott so I don't have the docs to see how this works. But if it is in the docs they can't change it anytime. On the other hand, a new "cCub" system may have new rules for whoever chooses to join.

 

[ocdb8r]

But these uprades are not usually trades you get via an ongoing exchange request... To get these upgrades you need to watch II or the sightings board on a daily basis, an impracticality for most people. Also, since you pick up stuff you "see" it is by definition the least desireable invenory left over after ongoing exchange requests (although the bulk banking of dozens of units n the same day helps you get these upgrades). Also, since Starwood selects the weeks it deposits into II and not the owner, it makes it even more likely they are not "prime" weeks. But if those weeks work for you then you are getting the most out of your ownership. A recent Starwood survey suggested that only 4% of owners plan to use II in the coming year, so this is definitely not the main avenue of exchanging in Starwood.

Actually, several of these upgrades ARE from ongoing search requests. I admittedly have never understood why, but several times I have gotten a 2 bedroom for an ongoing request that only had to give me a 1 bedroom. Additionally I have often got "upgrades" in the way of season with ongoing requests. I also do regularly check II so sometimes I snag great trades that way, but it's not 100% via "sightings."

Also, I think the fact that I am still relatively successful with such a low percentage of owners using II further proves that II will continue to be a valid outlet for owners even after Marriott institutes its system.

I agree that specifics on how it works may change what sort of "prime" weeks make it into II...but I don't see why owners wouldn't be able to continue to reserve prime weeks for deposit into II for either Marriott or external trades. The Starwood approach is unique...and UGLY...but I accept that Marriott could go that route.

 

[winger]

....
II has worked well for most in the past, is there some specific reasons it wouldn't work well in the future?
...

Yes, at least one. As more and more MVCI owners with 'better' weeks (or access to) join the internal system, less and less of these weeks will be deposited into II for exchanges.

 

[sdtugger]

Maui Example

I'm wondering how the new system could work (and whether it works well at Starwood and similar systems under similar facts).

Right now, if you want to reserve a popular week in Maui, you'd better be on the phone and computer at exactly 9 a.m. on the day the weeks are released. Reservations for popular weeks are literally gone within a few minutes of becoming available. This is essentially true for Pres. day week, most of spring break, virtually the entire summer, thanksgiving, and Christmas/new years (essentially the school holiday weeks and a few other key time periods).

How would/could Marriott make a new trading system work for those popular weeks? Under the current system, some owners select the popular weeks to reserve and trade meaning that it is possible to trade into Maui on many of these key weeks. But, there is such a demand for these key weeks, that I seriously wonder if there would be any inventory left at 8 months (for example) even if the former traders are no longer selecting these weeks. In other words, how likely is it that you'd ever see a Christmas week available at 8 months? Under the current system, you can see many such weeks.

If the new system doesn't have the most popular weeks to trade, then it will fail. How will Marriott make this work?

 

[DanCali]

If the new system doesn't have the most popular weeks to trade, then it will fail. How will Marriott make this work?

Bingo - just what I said 3 posts before you.

They can sell it as an upgrade all they want. The realities of such a system are that (i) about half of the owners will be worse off with their trading opportunities and (ii) exchanges will be harder for everyone since prime weeks will get picked up by owners at their home resorts and not by owners looking for a powerhouse week to trade.

I can't possibly see how this would be a better product. And it's folly to make a change like this after you have 400,000+ owners who bought under different rules. They would create 200,000 unhappy owners ovenight...

 

[m61376]

I don't think you can necessarily say it is a bad thing for owners at their home resort to have more opportunity to actually reserve prime weeks in their season, although admittedly non-owners trying to access those weeks will be disappointed and, as you point out, the likelihood is that very few of those prime weeks will be available at 8 months if they were part of a larger season. Plat. Plus weeks will be available when their owners choose to trade. Resorts with excessively long seasons, like NCV, for example, will likely rarely have a summer week available but owners there will likely be happier, since it will be much easier to actually reserve a summer week for use since they can no longer be monopolized by those seeking to enhance their trading power. As a non-owner I can be miffed that I won't be able to make that reservation, but I can see that it is an enhancement for owners.

The bigger issue is that if Marriott creates a system where half of the people are worse off than they were before I think it will be a nightmare. Even for people less than enthusiastic with II, the devil you know is frequently perceived as better than the unknown. I think Marriott has repeatedly delayed this program because of some of the issues we have speculated about and it may be why at least some of the powers that be aren't sure that it will ever become a reality.

 

[ocdb8r]

Bingo - just what I said 3 posts before you.

They can sell it as an upgrade all they want. The realities of such a system are that (i) about half of the owners will be worse off with their trading opportunities and (ii) exchanges will be harder for everyone since prime weeks will get picked up by owners at their home resorts and not by owners looking for a powerhouse week to trade.

I can't possibly see how this would be a better product. And it's folly to make a change like this after you have 400,000+ owners who bought under different rules. They would create 200,000 unhappy owners ovenight...

1) (ii) assumes that owners won't want powerhouse weeks to trade in II (either for other Marriott's or outside the Marriott system), which I believe is false. There will still be owners who want to deposit a tiger trader into II and if there are less owners vying for those weeks in II (because they have opted to use the internal system) we may end up with a BETTER chance at those weeks.

2) Owners able to trade into these prime weeks at their home resort certainly won't be "worse off"...why shouldn't they get priority for trades at their home resort (I know this would be a "change" but just playing devil's advocate). Getting a prime week also won't be "harder" for owners at their home resort.

3) This is really only a concern at resorts with overly generous Platinum periods. Only Platinum's are going to have enough points to get Platinum weeks at their home resort. At resorts where the seasons are accurately reflected, they are already the only ones who can get prime weeks. If they trade somewhere else, the prime week they were entitled to at their home resort will be made available to SOMEONE to trade into. Granted, Marriott has been "sloppy" in season assignment at some places so there are some issues here.

4) You have no idea how many Marriott owners trying to trade in II end up with unsatisfactory results because they don't have the time to learn the system like we do to have a high probability of a good trade...so your statement that "half of the owners will be worse off with their trading opportunities" may be false.

Don't get me wrong. I have been very happy with the excellent trades my Gold Marriott has provided, but I am not convinced that will stop with a new system. I am also not convinced that the new system will not provide some value, even to me as a Gold owner. Change sucks...but it is as likely provide additional opportunities as it is to foreclose some.

 

[DanCali]

I think Marriott has repeatedly delayed this program because of some of the issues we have speculated about and it may be why at least some of the powers that be aren't sure that it will ever become a reality.

Ok - so who are these "powers that be" you keep referring to???

 

[m61376]

Ok - so who are these "powers that be" you keep referring to???

I am not trying to be cagey. The official I spoke with related that he was instructed by his superiors not to discuss the points program because there are issues with it and it may never happen. That's the extent of what I know. Since it clearly contradicts the assumed "given" that the new program will be rolled out mid year I thought it was worth repeating, for what it may or may not be worth.

 

[ldanna]

There is nothing worst than telling an owner in Maui that when he trades to Orlando, he gets the same 7 nights when he paid $80,000 and the orlando owner paid $25,000. Now his Maui oceanfront might get him 12 days in Orlando. Makes sense ? You guys need to stop overthinking this and they are trying to help. If you bought resale and own a silver week, just continue to use II and you will be fine.

Some things to consider:

*If I own in Orlando I have to use 2 of my weeks to get one week in Maui or just one of my weeks (the whole 2bd) to get half a week in Maiu (it means 2 MF for 1 week plus air tickets for at least 4 to HI). Not a good deal. BTW, lockoff is not an advantage anymore.

*If I own Maui I can exchange my week for 2 weeks in Orlando. Great deal and I will save on air tickets.

*If an Orlando owner doesn't deposit its 2 week, no weeks for the Maui owner.

*Is there a lot of potential buyers for $80k a week and almost $2k MF/year? If not, is this new system improve this market?

Fletch, you could help me with this answer: what are the top seeling weeks on Marriott today? I think that the weeks around $20k are the ones selling during this economic crises and they will always be. According to this new system, will it be easier to sell those week (you will need two weeks to make a real good one)

BTW, no more ACs with Marriott.

 

[dougp26364]

I agree with Fletch. You guys are WAY overthinking this. We own two points systems and they are not evil systems. They just take a little different way of thinking about how to use them. In one system I have two weeks of ownership and the points for both units are combined. I can mix and match those points to fit my particular needs. I can even save this years points to next year if I want one huge blow-out vacation or, borrow points from next year if I want to pay for that fantastic view rather than settle for the view of the parking lot exchangers often get.

Also consider that with points systems, inventory is often controlled by the developer. While the initial kneejerk reaction to this might be to think it's a bad thing, I can get ocean view or ocean front Hawaii weeks MUCH easier with our points programs than I can with a weeks exchange program. The best inventory is kept for system owners. Interval will have a contract that ensures they get specific resorts and weeks and they base the point trade value for Interval exchanges off of that average. In the meantime outside exchangers don't get first crack at the best Marriott weeks. Marriott owners get first shot and probably will get their chances for 3 to 6 months rather than the current 28 days.

But, this is just all speculation. Speculation using the two systems I already know. While I still take a wait and see stance I am anxious to see what Marriott puts on the table. If I don't like it, I'll just leave things the way they are, keep using my units and makes any exchanges through Interval.

 

[jimf41]

Sales rep at Frenchman's Cove told me during the presentation today that the Points system is definitely coming in June. This contrasts with a Marriott telesales rep a week ago who professed to know nothing about it.

Today's take was interesting. The rep stated that it would be cost ineffective for a resale owner to join. He also stated that there would be different levels within the system. The top level being 6 developer bought platinum weeks. Looking at what I currently own he said I would be in a lower tier. Of course if I bought 2 more plat weeks I would move way up in the system. I only have to the close of business today to fork over $72k to assure my high place in the pecking order.

Any advice?

Never mind I'm going back to the beach with my grandson and probably won't be back in time to tell him I want the deal anyway. I'll try again next year.

 

[AwayWeGo]

$72,000 ? -- You're Kidding, Right ?

Of course if I bought 2 more plat weeks I would move way up in the system. I only have to the close of business today to fork over $72k to assure my high place in the pecking order.

Any advice?

$72,000 ?

For timeshares ?

I would have to be plumb out of my helmet to fork over 72 grand for timeshares.

Shux, around here we think it's nutz to shell out 72 hundred for timeshares.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Swice]

a new thought

After my latest interaction with II, maybe I would rather deal with marriott as much as possible!

 

[PerryM]

YELLING at the top of my lungs guys....

Sales rep at Frenchman's Cove told me during the presentation today that the Points system is definitely coming in June. This contrasts with a Marriott telesales rep a week ago who professed to know nothing about it.

Today's take was interesting. The rep stated that it would be cost ineffective for a resale owner to join. He also stated that there would be different levels within the system. The top level being 6 developer bought platinum weeks. Looking at what I currently own he said I would be in a lower tier. Of course if I bought 2 more plat weeks I would move way up in the system. I only have to the close of business today to fork over $72k to assure my high place in the pecking order.

Any advice?

Never mind I'm going back to the beach with my grandson and probably won't be back in time to tell him I want the deal anyway. I'll try again next year.

I'm in Maui right now and took our sales tour yesterday - Marriott is so desperate that they are offering 20% cash discounts to anyone who has the cash to buy. Don't know about financing - didn't ask.

This means that EVERY person who bought the New Towers at Maui Ocean Club got screwed - they paid 20% too much as they never raised the initial "Pre-construction Pricing".

Marriott has no problems screwing existing owners why become one with them?

My advice to everyone is to NOT BUY A TIMESHARE NOW - not resale and not developer.

Prices will drop even more before real estate recovers.

P.S.

Wonder if Marriott has a price matching policy like most retailers - good luck...

 

[winger]

... newer properties may cost more to build and Marriott may entice purchases with higher point allocations (as seemingly happened with Starwood), older resort owners are still paying ever increasing MF's and it would be a real issue, again in my opinion, if such inequities arose in the future as Marriott hopefully once again expands.

Reminds me of how Marriott has handled the recent (Jan 2009) MRP devaluations from the perspective of timeshare owners who purchased direct in hope of possibly trading their timeshare suites for hotel stays in major cities around the world ...

In your analogy, "newer properties" represents existing or new Marriott hotels.

if we looked far enough down the road, in a few years, alot of us "legacy" owners would turn in our two bedroom timeshare suites and get just enough MRP's for a one night stay in New York (or Paris, or London).

 

[SueDonJ]

After my latest interaction with II, maybe I would rather deal with marriott as much as possible!

Oh, I know I'd rather deal direct with Marriott than with any outside exchange company. That's a no-brainer; we only put in for other Marriott resorts with our exchange requests anyway. (Since DVC left II, I mean - we did have an ongoing request in for DVC at the time.)

But that's about all I'm sure of. The rest will have to wait until/if Marriott unveils the details of whatever new system might be in the works.

As far as newer resorts costing more points for an exchange, isn't that how every points system works? DVC does (at least at the WDW resorts,) I don't know about the others.