Penn State/Sandusky report is out [merged]

[Passepartout]

It is gone. Put into storage. Penn State President Said " It has become a source of division and an obstacle to healing,"

Jim

 

[Talent312]

Now, the million dollar question is should the football team be punished?

I say no. IMHO, it'd be wrong to punish the current crop of players + coaches for something that happened years ago. That said, it's clear that the school had lost institutional control long ago, and a penalty is fothcoming. Perhaps it can be limited to a scholarship reduction.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

The statue came up quite a bit in the previous Paterno thread. It was the right thing to do and they made the right choice.

Now, the million dollar question is should the football team be punished? I feel that with the upcoming lawsuit liability that Penn State will have suffered enough. I know others would like to see the football team destroyed also.

Maybe its just semantics but I think not. Many people, including me, want to see the football PROGRAM punished by the NCAA by being kicked out for two years. The program has already destroyed the team. The team simply cannot play in the environment the program created through its malfeasance. The press reaction andcitizen reaction to continued playby the team would be horrific. When the program is purged and punished a new team can arise from the ashes without the horrible burden of a prior program.

 

[CapriciousC]

While I agree that punishing the current players and coaches for something they had no part in seems unfair, it wouldn't be the first time the NCAA has done it. The USC Trojans were prevented from participating in the NCAA post-season for two years because Reggie Bush may or may not have taken money from an agent in his senior year at the university. I think a similar penalty could send the appropriate message to Penn State without jeopardizing the scholarships of players who may not be able to attend college otherwise.

Edited to add:

Actually, I think this article on ESPN.com about sums it up for me:

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ll-penn-state-nittany-lions-earned-wrath-ncaa

When you look at what the NCAA has done to other teams for infractions involving players accepting improper gifts and compensation, how can they as an organization ignore what was arguably an institutional cover-up that harmed so many children? Ohio State players getting free tattoos is like throwing gum on the sidewalk compared to what the Penn State leadership did.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm glad the statue is gone and I hope that the NCAA announces tomorrow that the football program is also gone. The statue, permanently. The program, for as long as it takes to eradicate the culture that allowed ANYONE in the program, school or community to believe that the successes on the field were more important than besmirching the "good name" of the program. IMO, Penn State Football can no longer make ANY claims to a good name.

It is sad that NCAA sanctions are more likely to punish those involved currently with a program who may not have any connection to those who committed the infractions in the past, as well as those on the periphery whose livelihood may be affected. No doubt this will happen at Penn State the same way it's happened at other schools. As sad as it is, it's the typical process of NCAA sanctions and Penn State should not be shielded from it. But IMO in this case it will also meet the objective of eradicating the culture, because there are still far too many people who are choosing to believe that Joe Paterno and the rest of Jerry Sandusky's enablers were not the problem. Maybe it'll be good for them to have their Saturdays free for doing some thinking about what really went on in their community for all those years.

 

[pedro47]

The statue is down; I pray the President of the University and the NCAA do not punish the football program with the death penalty.

This is a very day for the University.

 

[ace2000]

I'm glad the statue is gone and I hope that the NCAA announces tomorrow that the football program is also gone. The statue, permanently. The program, for as long as it takes to eradicate the culture that allowed ANYONE in the program, school or community to believe that the successes on the field were more important than besmirching the "good name" of the program. IMO, Penn State Football can no longer make ANY claims to a good name.

It is sad that NCAA sanctions are more likely to punish those involved currently with a program who may not have any connection to those who committed the infractions in the past, as well as those on the periphery whose livelihood may be affected. No doubt this will happen at Penn State the same way it's happened at other schools. As sad as it is, it's the typical process of NCAA sanctions and Penn State should not be shielded from it. But IMO in this case it will also meet the objective of eradicating the culture, because there are still far too many people who are choosing to believe that Joe Paterno and the rest of Jerry Sandusky's enablers were not the problem. Maybe it'll be good for them to have their Saturdays free for doing some thinking about what really went on in their community for all those years.

Sue, you've been critical of the current Penn State leadership every step of the way, however in my mind they've handled this situation extremely well. If the football program was dismantled for a couple of years, then is this thing over in your mind, or should the board and/or president do more than that?

 

[ace2000]

Here's what's coming next...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162...ented-penalties-against-penn-state/?tag=stack

CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school. "I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.


.

 

[am1]

Apparently no death penalty.

I think penn state should play their home games in an empty stadium for 2012. Ban on bowls for a few years and reduction in scholarships.

It is good that the statue is down. I wonder if they chose Sunday morning to do it in a hope to avoid riots.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Newscaster said there is a post on the NCAA site that a penalty for the football team will be forthcoming on Monday 9AM.

The multiple internet posts hinted that it would be a severe lost of scholarships and multiple bowl appearances. Will NOT be the "death penalty", even for not 1 year. One analyst stated that the "Death Penalty" might have been preferred by the team and university as the decided (TBA) penalty is more long lasting and severe.

 

[Kal]

I say no. IMHO, it'd be wrong to punish the current crop of players + coaches for something that happened years ago. That said, it's clear that the school had lost institutional control long ago, and a penalty is fothcoming. Perhaps it can be limited to a scholarship reduction.

It is a common understanding that a football team is a family where every member is bonded to one another. Is it even possible that any one player knew what was going on with an ACTIVE assistant coach? Furthermore, is it even possible that the player did not share the information with his closest "family" buddy? The word had to be out! Accordingly, at least one or more members of the team (and perhaps the majority of the team) would be complicit in the crime if that person(s) is aware of its occurrence and has the ability to report the crime, but fails to do so.

To me, it's just a question of the NCAA death penalty, or very, very severe sanctions. This is far beyond the "lack of institutional control". The institution was deeply involved in the entire crime.

Also, PS recruits blue chip athletes like any other top football factory. Those players will have their choice of other universities where they can provide their services with a full FREE ride. It will be a recruiting frenzy for a hundred universities. The only thing harmed will be status quo and a gazillion $$$ of football wanna-be and alumni contributions. That's the real punishment.

 

[dougp26364]

In order to deter other universitites from doing the same, the punishment will have to be severe. Otherwise, there will be no reason for anyone else to come forward should they find the same thing happening with their employee's within their system. To not punish Penn State severaly sends the message that it might be better to cover it up then to face the bad PR from exposing the situation. The decision by Penn State was to cover it up. The NCAA needs to make it clear that was the wrong decision.

 

[ace2000]

Doug, I disagree with you, but that was very well-stated and is an excellent argument regarding this matter.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sue, you've been critical of the current Penn State leadership every step of the way, however in my mind they've handled this situation extremely well. If the football program was dismantled for a couple of years, then is this thing over in your mind, or should the board and/or president do more than that?

IMO what's been most important is for the Football Program to suffer a drastic punishment. I'd like to see a complete shutdown of the program for AT LEAST two years but would prefer five, which would be long enough for any and every person connected to the program today to be replaced so that there would not be one connection between the old and new teams. Even I'm not irrational enough to believe that a five-year ban will happen, though, if one happens at all.

(Unless there are current players who absolutely no doubt had knowledge of Jerry Sandusky's and his Band Of Merry Men's actions - which I don't believe there are although they may have heard rumors - then if there is a shutdown of the program every player should be allowed to move on from Penn State and become members of other programs. Whatever it costs them or their new schools should be compensated by Penn State.)

As far as the board, I think the current interim president is doing a good job all things considered and from all accounts, he's not caught up in the culture that allowed this situation to develop and fester. I think the other board members are at this point shell-shocked and letting him make the decisons for fear that if they draw attention to themselves, they'll be gone next. I'm okay with him staying on but unfortunately I don't think that will happen. Whether it's his choice or the board's, I think he'll be forced out after most of the clean-up is done because some members of the community will always associate him with acts they didn't want to see happen (such as removing the statue.)

I'd like to see the rest of the board members do what the one did earlier this week, to step down from their positions. But all at once would cause too much disruption to the entire university, so if they agree amongst themselves to stagger their replacements I'd be happy with that. Again, that might be an irrational hope.

If what's being alleged since the Freeh report comes true and the federal authorities determine that there have been, in fact, violations of the Clery Act that began with the Football Program but extend throughout the entire university, all bets are off. The entire university should pay for that with drastic action, beginning with a cleansing of the board and the appointment of an oversight committee with complete control.

 

[SueDonJ]

... I think penn state should play their home games in an empty stadium for 2012. ...

I love this idea. If a shutdown doesn't happen this is the next best thing. I'd extend it beyond one year, though.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I love this idea. If a shutdown doesn't happen this is the next best thing. I'd extend it beyond one year, though.

With NO (TV) REVENUE MONIES --- just a video available 48 hours after the end of the game. So, diehards can see how the game was played. AND all the games, be HOME GAMES - no road trip parties or televised road games back to house parties in Happy Valley.

And if I was a local living there, I would want to change the town's name.

 

[CapriciousC]

(Unless there are current players who absolutely no doubt had knowledge of Jerry Sandusky's and his Band Of Merry Men's actions - which I don't believe there are although they may have heard rumors - then if there is a shutdown of the program every player should be allowed to move on from Penn State and become members of other programs. Whatever it costs them or their new schools should be compensated by Penn State.)

Sue - this is exactly what my husband thinks should happen. He attended USC courtesy of a football scholarship, and while he's grateful for the opportunities it afforded him (he wouldn't have been able to afford tuition there without it), he also feels that at lot of the big "football schools", academics take a back seat to athletics, which bothers him.

He was telling me last night that per NCAA rules, if a player who currently has a football scholarship to a given university decides that they want to change schools, they are prohibited from playing at another school for one year. So even if there are kids at Penn State who'd like to switch schools, they'd likely lose their scholarships (because what other school is going to pay for a kid who can't play for a year?) He thinks that the NCAA should waive this rule for Penn State players, and allow the players to transfer schools, if they desire, and still be allowed to play. He also thinks that Penn State should honor their scholarships and pay their tuition and expenses at any new school, although I doubt that would happen.

 

[vacationhopeful]

...He was telling me last night that per NCAA rules, if a player who currently has a football scholarship to a given university decides that they want to change schools, they are prohibited from playing at another school for one year.....

I believe that rule has been waived before for other players when their original college program has been had rulings against them by the NCAA.

 

[Mel]

It is a common understanding that a football team is a family where every member is bonded to one another. Is it even possible that any one player knew what was going on with an ACTIVE assistant coach? Furthermore, is it even possible that the player did not share the information with his closest "family" buddy? The word had to be out! Accordingly, at least one or more members of the team (and perhaps the majority of the team) would be complicit in the crime if that person(s) is aware of its occurrence and has the ability to report the crime, but fails to do so.
To me, it's just a question of the NCAA death penalty, or very, very severe sanctions. This is far beyond the "lack of institutional control". The institution was deeply involved in the entire crime.
Also, PS recruits blue chip athletes like any other top football factory. Those players will have their choice of other universities where they can provide their services with a full FREE ride. It will be a recruiting frenzy for a hundred universities. The only thing harmed will be status quo and a gazillion $$$ of football wanna-be and alumni contributions. That's the real punishment.

This is where some action can be taken by the state. Faculty and staff at colleges and universities are generally not considered mandatory reporters, because their jobs don't place them in a positon of dealing with children as a matter of course. But perhaps the state should update the law to include them. Making them mandatory reporters might not have changed anything, but it would have made the risk to themselves a bit more severe. After the evidence from the Freeh report, it's clear they would have been guilty of more than bad decisions and lying to the grand jury.

From what I have read on other forums, some football players as far back as the 70's considered Sandusky creepy, and avoided being in the locker room alone. It sounds more like gut instincts and rumors than direct knowledge of anything he did. Many may have chosen not to put themselves in a position where they might witness something. I agree if any did see something, they should have done more than warn others to avoid the locker room (and should have wanted those boys as well). But could we expect more of them than of a graduate assistant who was scared to come forward? And for all we know, such a witness may have existed, who did report to one of the men now under indictment, and may have found that nothing was done. In that case, I too would warn my teammates to stay clear of the locker room.

He was telling me last night that per NCAA rules, if a player who currently has a football scholarship to a given university decides that they want to change schools, they are prohibited from playing at another school for one year. So even if there are kids at Penn State who'd like to switch schools, they'd likely lose their scholarships (because what other school is going to pay for a kid who can't play for a year?) He thinks that the NCAA should waive this rule for Penn State players, and allow the players to transfer schools, if they desire, and still be allowed to play. He also thinks that Penn State should honor their scholarships and pay their tuition and expenses at any new school, although I doubt that would happen.

Whena program is shut down, through no fault of the student, they usually get a waiver, and and can play at a new school the following year. I doubt the NCAA would have issue with grantung such waivers if the program is shut down.The question is whether waivers would be granted if the NCAA stops short of the death penalty.

 

[Passepartout]

"Crippling" sanctions on Penn State

Noted recently, Penn State will get multiple year bowl and scholarship sanctions. http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...owl-ban-crippling-scholarship-losses/related/ it could amount to a 'Death Sentence.'

Jim

 

[ronparise]

Noted recently, Penn State will get multiple year bowl and scholarship sanctions. http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...owl-ban-crippling-scholarship-losses/related/ it could amount to a 'Death Sentence.'

Jim

Remember these are just sanctions on the sports business part of Penn State. The various academic departments are still in business and I believe a BS or a BA from Penn State will carry the same weight as before.

 

[Sea Six]

Penn State hasn't exactly been a key player in the bowl games recently. I just hope Sandusky's punishment is greater than Paterno's.

 

[bogey21]

How can the NCAA justify not giving the Death Penalty to Penn State after giving it to SMU. If they don't, I have to assume they believe booster abuse is more serious than multiple rapes. And don't give me that stuff that the Death Penalty will impact the innocent schools in the Big Ten. How about the innocent schools in the Southwest Conference? Did the NCAA worry about them?

George

 

[Ken555]

College sports in their entirety need to be reformed. We hear about progress, and then stuff like Penn State happens. I have absolutely no confidence or trust in the system.

 

[Tia]

How can the NCAA justify not giving the Death Penalty to Penn State after giving it to SMU. If they don't, I have to assume they believe booster abuse is more serious than multiple rapes. And don't give me that stuff that the Death Penalty will impact the innocent schools in the Big Ten. How about the innocent schools in the Southwest Conference? Did the NCAA worry about them?

George

So googled what this was about and found this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...w-for-decades/2012/07/17/gJQA1t5pqW_blog.html