Penn State/Sandusky report is out [merged]

[bogey21]

I ask the question...under what circumstances would it be acceptable to remove football in its entirety from a university? If not now, when? Never?

It would be best for Penn State to shut down the football program voluntarily for 5 years. They could start the process of rebuiding it after 4 years. The team getting their butts kicked and the student and alumni apathy while they are losing and other revenue penalties acessed by the NCAA will make the football program a money loser. They should save the money that will be lost and allocate it to other sports or University endeavors.

I think there are a number of schools that voluntarily shut down their football programs at one time or another. Many have since reinstated them. Most started the process of bringing them back by competing at levels lower than Division I.

George

 

[laurac260]

Also, the wins mean the most to the legacy of Joe Paterno. A legacy that some have argued he was trying to protect. So, justice has been served there.

Balderdash. Every time his legacy is written about, spoken about, etc, there will ALWAYS be that footnote, that asterisk at the end of the stats that will state , "this does not count the wins between 2008 and 2011 where Penn State was stripped of their accounting of those wins due to so and so." (of course this will be stated much more eloquently than I have written). The footnote will be there. Yes, as a reminder that if only, but also to remind people that he really WAS the winningest coach in football.

In other words IMHO I think it's a sorry joke to say that taking away wins amounts to anything. If you take away all the ticket sales, all the money GENERATED during those winning seasons, that would be another manner altogether.

 

[Beefnot]

Reasonable, and unreasonable, people can disagree on what the appropriate punishment should be. We should take consolation that the NCAA did mete out what a large audience did find to be quite severe, and that the Big 10 supported and extended from there.

 

[Ken555]

Reasonable, and unreasonable, people can disagree on what the appropriate punishment should be. We should take consolation that the NCAA did mete out what a large audience did find to be quite severe, and that the Big 10 supported and extended from there.

Not to be too critical, but I think (though I hope I'm wrong) many of those people you believe thought this punishment to be quite severe are the same people who just want this issue to go away quickly so they can get back to business/football as usual. I have difficulty believing long-term effective change will be the eventual result of this decision. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[SueDonJ]

I ask the question...under what circumstances would it be acceptable to remove football in its entirety from a university? If not now, when? Never?

Maybe, possibly, hopefully? - if an atrocious scandal directly involving the players who take the field is unearthed THEN the Death Penalty will at least be on the table? I would hope so, because I really don't understand why it wasn't imposed here. It doesn't make sense to me that Emmert explained away not imposing the Death Penalty by saying that it would affect too many people who were not responsible. I guess he meant not responsible in the way that Sandusky and his enablers were, that not everyone in the program/school/community was in on the conspiracy despite being embroiled in the culture that allowed it to happen? I dunno, it doesn't make any sense because past Death Penalties most surely had that effect - why should Penn State be immune?

I'm sick reading so many things from Penn State supporters that really don't make rational sense to me. That culture is so ingrained in so many people that their statements read like Victim Impact Statements, as though they have no concept of what that culture has borne. How can ANYone think that Penn State didn't deserve at least the penalties handed down today?! Why don't any of these yahoos realize that there are victims in this situation who are much more deserving of sympathy and justice?! IMO, it would not be an injustice for that community to have to find something else to do with their Saturday afternoons. The program/community doesn't deserve a chance to move on to business as usual, meaning games on the field, until/unless more is done to acknowledge and eradicate the cult following. All the NCAA's punishments have done is reinforce the community's resolve to come together as self-described victims. Gah, they're insufferable.

 

[PStreet1]

I'm not a sports fan, so my question may be totally dumb. I don't understand how, years after the fact, victories can be "vacated." Isn't that attempting to re-write history? Penn State did, in fact, win those games; how is it possible to now say they don't count? (I understand that's what they have now said; I just don't understand the logic.)

 

[chalee94]

I'm not a sports fan, so my question may be totally dumb. I don't understand how, years after the fact, victories can be "vacated." Isn't that attempting to re-write history? Penn State did, in fact, win those games; how is it possible to now say they don't count? (I understand that's what they have now said; I just don't understand the logic.)

it's just saying that had jopa and the big dogs exposed sandusky in 1998, there might have been a backlash at the time that made recruiting more difficult and wins tougher to come by. the administration was colluding to lie about the situation and not "playing fair" so all the wins since that point are tainted, and as a result, they are thrown out.

same deal when USC "paid" reggie bush to play for them. without the benefit of the cheating, they might not have won the games...so they are thrown out.

it's not a great punishment but it's appropriate as part of the package, even if it mostly hurts the sports nuts...

 

[SueDonJ]

With every statement the Paterno family releases they reinforce the notion that Joe Paterno was the de facto king of that campus. Their sense of entitlement, their surety that no official position can be determined until/unless a Paterno weighs in and agrees, only serves to prove that somewhere along the way the powers that be at Penn State wrongly granted that entitlement to the king and his successors. Somebody smart should tell them to stop. Just stop.

 

[tfalk]

As someone who has a kid at Penn State, and as someone who has never followed college football, I just don't see all the anger... A small handful of people were directly responsible for this happening. The board of trustees also should be blamed for their severe lack of oversight, their precise reason for being involved here.

Who exactly are these penalties going to affect? The current students and athletes at the university... the people who had NOTHING to do with this. Who is going to pay the price for this? The students in the form of higher tuition and the taxpayers of Pennsylvania... again, people who had nothing to do with the actions of those responsible. I certainly had nothing to do with this but I am one of the people who are going to be paying for the consequences of something that I had absolutely nothing to do with.

Send the people who had direct responsibility for this to prison. Fire the trustees and those who should have made sure this never happened didn't. Beyond that, you can't change what happened and taking money from students and taxpayers who had nothing to do with this just doesn't seem fair/right to me...

Sorry if that doesn't go along with 'popular' opinion..

 

[ace2000]

As someone who has a kid at Penn State, and as someone who has never followed college football, I just don't see all the anger... A small handful of people were directly responsible for this happening. The board of trustees also should be blamed for their severe lack of oversight, their precise reason for being involved here.

Who exactly are these penalties going to affect? The current students and athletes at the university... the people who had NOTHING to do with this. Who is going to pay the price for this? The students in the form of higher tuition and the taxpayers of Pennsylvania... again, people who had nothing to do with the actions of those responsible. I certainly had nothing to do with this but I am one of the people who are going to be paying for the consequences of something that I had absolutely nothing to do with.

Send the people who had direct responsibility for this to prison. Fire the trustees and those who should have made sure this never happened didn't. Beyond that, you can't change what happened and taking money from students and taxpayers who had nothing to do with this just doesn't seem fair/right to me...

Sorry if that doesn't go along with 'popular' opinion..

Valid points.

However, for example, if a school is sued by a student and wins a judgement then the entire school suffers, as well as current students, as well as the taxpayers. That's how the system works.

 

[geekette]

Frankly, I don't see how vacating all those wins is such a big punishment. So Joe isn't the winningst coach but it really doesn't change who won those games. You can't change history. The thrill from winning the games is gone.

Yeah, I don't get that, either. If there had been unfair advantage in achieving the wins, then, Sure, I understand. Doesn't seem to me that the recruiting brochures would be pushing football wins now anyway. And I can only hope that non-football players don't make college decisions based on football w/l records.

 

[Beefnot]

Not to be too critical, but I think (though I hope I'm wrong) many of those people you believe thought this punishment to be quite severe are the same people who just want this issue to go away quickly so they can get back to business/football as usual. I have difficulty believing long-term effective change will be the eventual result of this decision. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

First. let's just be clear that there has never been a permanent "death penalty". That term refers to suspending a program in its entirety for at least a year. There is no precedent, and possibly no jurisdiction by any body external to the university, for permanently disbanding an athletic program.

Secondly, it seems as if you are looking for a punishment handed down to Penn State to somehow correct larger systemic issues that you find to be corrupt, immoral, and/or unjust. No singular punishment is going to accomplish that. Could it have been even more severe? Sure. Would some have been critical that whatever that more severe punishment was, it wasn't severe enough? Most likely.

Your comment about folks wanting to get back to the business of football is very cynical. Have you considered that, although they may disagree with your own notion of just punishment, many do find it severe because they just think it is severe? I do not particularly care all that much for college football, so I was not invested in the outcome either way.

What is specifically the long-term effective change to which you refer?

 

[Kona Lovers]

I wonder if Bill O'Brien misses the Patriots yet.

 

[geekette]

So when does the investigation of Second Mile occur?? I fear that Sandy was not the only one there that ... shared his interests.

 

[Pat H]

Valid points.

However, for example, if a school is sued by a student and wins a judgement then the entire school suffers, as well as current students, as well as the taxpayers. That's how the system works.

Actually it's the insurance company that loses.

 

[Beefnot]

So when does the investigation of Second Mile occur?? I fear that Sandy was not the only one there that ... shared his interests.

There had been a rumor in 2011 surfaced by the guy who had originally broken the Sandusky story that this thing might be far, far, bigger than just Sandusky. The type of stuff that can cause people to disappear.

 

[ace2000]

Actually it's the insurance company that loses.

Actually, there's a lot of losers out of this ordeal. The insurance company may pay out some, but the school is going to lose a lot of revenue because of this also. At the least, in tickets sales and future donations.

 

[SueDonJ]

I really think the financial penalties imposed by the NCAA and Big Ten aren't going to be anywhere near as damaging as the settlements that come out of the eventual civil court proceedings. It's unfortunate that every corner of the university will be affected financially, but like others have said that's the way the process usually works. There's no reason for Penn State to be shielded or exempt from that process.

 

[geekette]

There had been a rumor in 2011 surfaced by the guy who had originally broken the Sandusky story that this thing might be far, far, bigger than just Sandusky. The type of stuff that can cause people to disappear.

Yeah, I saw something about the disappearance a few weeks back. It was one of those unsolved mysteries shows and the PSU situation was barely touched on. Kind of, "oh yeah, he was also on the team looking into ..." and that was it. Hard to say exactly what "got him disappeared" as it remains a mystery.

The other, well, I feared something like that.

 

[CapriciousC]

Secondly, it seems as if you are looking for a punishment handed down to Penn State to somehow correct larger systemic issues that you find to be corrupt, immoral, and/or unjust. No singular punishment is going to accomplish that. Could it have been even more severe? Sure. Would some have been critical that whatever that more severe punishment was, it wasn't severe enough? Most likely.

I read a statement from Emmert saying that "For the next several years now, Penn State can focus on the work of rebuilding its athletic culture, not worrying about whether or not it's going to a bowl game." It's my hope that by allowing the program to continue but with significant penalties, the emphasis on sports above all will change over time. There will always be those who will idolize Paterno, sadly, but I think that many eyes have been opened as to the truth of how his program was run and the influence he had over the university. Power corrupts, and so on... Hopefully the severity of the punishment will cause other institutions to realize that if they're faced with a similar situation, sweeping it under the rug will only make things worse in the long run (in addition to being morally reprehensible, but that didn't seem to bother Paterno et al.)

Is it unfair that the current players will likely suffer for something that they had no part in? Yes, but no more unfair than what happened to the players at USC because Reggie Bush took money when he shouldn't have, or what happened to the players at Ohio State because some of them accepted cash and free tattoos.

You know the thing I've never understood about Paterno's legacy, even before the scandal hit? People go on about all he did for Penn State, and yes, he did significantly increase their endowment, but during his time tuition there rose continually to the point that PSU is the most expensive state school in the country. I find it hard to believe that all that money went toward improving academics.

 

[am1]

Any legal opinions on here if former players can sue? Students? And have a chance of winning.

 

[pianodinosaur]

The $60 million penalty will come right out of the tax payers in the State of Pennsylvania. I think the law suits will dwarf the NCAA penalties. So, what is Mr. Paterno's ultimate contribution to Penn State and his supporters?

 

[Ken555]

First. let's just be clear that there has never been a permanent "death penalty". That term refers to suspending a program in its entirety for at least a year. There is no precedent, and possibly no jurisdiction by any body external to the university, for permanently disbanding an athletic program.

Secondly, it seems as if you are looking for a punishment handed down to Penn State to somehow correct larger systemic issues that you find to be corrupt, immoral, and/or unjust. No singular punishment is going to accomplish that. Could it have been even more severe? Sure. Would some have been critical that whatever that more severe punishment was, it wasn't severe enough? Most likely.

Your comment about folks wanting to get back to the business of football is very cynical. Have you considered that, although they may disagree with your own notion of just punishment, many do find it severe because they just think it is severe? I do not particularly care all that much for college football, so I was not invested in the outcome either way.

What is specifically the long-term effective change to which you refer?

You raise good points. And yes, a singular reaction to Penn wouldn't cure the culture but might send a warning to others. I'm not sure even this penalty is sufficient to cause meaningful change. I'm also not invested in college football (and I'm not a proponent of football at all, but that's another story) but I am dismayed at the culture which has developed surrounding the sport. I agree with others here that the civil lawsuits which will eventually follow will no doubt result in larger penalties, and that Penn will not forget this calamity any time soon.

I am sympathetic to those who thru no fault of their own will be penalized for this, yet...that's likely the main motivator for future positive change.

Frankly, I think the entire board of trustees and admin management at Penn should quit or be fired. The kind of leadership which resulted in decades of issues should have no place in our schools. And, it seems this is starting to occur:

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-07-19/us/us_pennsylvania-sandusky-probe_1_penn-state-board-jerry-sandusky-karen-peetz

 

[Tia]

Very suspicious indeed......... including the search re how to destroy a hard drive on home computer. Maybe have watched too much TV but that search could of easily been done by someone illegally entering the house to look for more evidence that might of existed.

There had been a rumor in 2011 surfaced by the guy who had originally broken the Sandusky story that this thing might be far, far, bigger than just Sandusky. The type of stuff that can cause people to disappear.

 

[SunSand]

The NCAA "death penalty" would actually have been a better deal for Penn State. Instead, PSU received a sentence of life without parole. You basically are still alive, but you are much better off dead. For certain, this is the end of the road for PSU football. Since football revenues fund most other non-revenue generating sports, say goodbye to PSU dominance in women's volleyball, etc. The downward spiral will not be fun to see.