Penn State/Sandusky report is out [merged]

[SueDonJ]

Wow SueDonJ. I abhor child rape just like the next normal person, and I actually do personally want to see paterno's legacy forever destroyed, and I do actually want to see the football program shut down as punishment (not shut down to change the culture, which could be changed without shutting down the program honestly). We probably agree on these things. But you are on a whole different plane, in another dimension, when it comes to what constitutes timely action. You do have lynch mob mentality. We still do not know what will happen, and Penn St. may or may not do what we believe to be the right thing, but what you proposed is not even in the realm of what any rational, deliberate governing body would have done.

We're in agreement, what I think should have happened and should happen in the near future is extreme. It comes from the only similar situation which can be compared, IMO, and from the knowledge that NOT taking extreme actions in a timely manner in that situation resulted in further harm to the victims and the institution. I don't have any other point of reference.

I think I understand the nuances you're talking about, the difference you see between a punitive action and a rehabilitative one, as far as shutting down the football program. But in my mind, eradicating the culture that allowed this situation to happen at Penn State, IS a punishment for that university and some in that community. Over the years they've EMBRACED that culture, came to believe that they were ENTITLED to that culture. Penn State Football DEFINED the culture. So IMO, we're in agreement about the reason to shut down the football program.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Boy I wish we could use the Catholic Church scandal as a reference point to this discussion, but alas.

I honestly don't know why we can't. It's been asked in this thread that we not mention the pedophile priest scandal because we'll risk the thread being shut down. But IMO, it's possible to make comparisons between the two similar situations without the thread devolving into a bitter discussion of religion in general. Actually, IMO it's imperative that we make the comparison - there aren't any others which equal the magnitude of these two.

The overwhelming sentiment following the pedophile priest scandal was, "have we learned anything?" Well, the way the Penn State scandal develops will answer that question.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

Yes, sounds good, protecting the statue vs protecting a child, simple and pithy, plays well to make a cheap jab. But in actuality is much too simplistic. Trying to, as a body of individuals--with strong lobbying forces (points and counterpoints) on both sides of the issue--what to do, when, the implications, how exactly to manage the implications, etc., is an inordinately challenging, complex, and deliberate process. There are probably group conversations, side conversations, negotiations, debates, arguments, fights, you name it, going on up the totem pole, trying to grasp how exactly to handle what to do about the Penn St. pope, effectively.

Boy I wish we could use the Catholic Church scandal as a reference point to this discussion, but alas.

Its not complicated at all. The board of trustees hired free to do a report. The report is out. The report condemns Paterno and the football program from being interested in protecting Sandusky and SHOWING NO CONCERN FOR HIS VICTIMS. THEY DIDNT EVEN ASK FOR THE VICTIMS NAME.

Now is the time to act. Delay is another indication that they care more about Paterno and the football program than the victims.

 

[Beefnot]

I honestly don't know why we can't. It's been asked in this thread that we not mention the pedophile priest scandal because we'll risk the thread being shut down. But IMO, it's possible to make comparisons between the two similar situations without the thread devolving into a bitter discussion of religion in general. Actually, IMO it's imperative that we make the comparison - there aren't any others which equal the magnitude of these two.

The overwhelming sentiment following the pedophile priest scandal was, "have we learned anything?" Well, the way the Penn State scandal develops will answer that question.

Hm. One piece of trivia. After the pedophile scandal was unfolding 10 years ago, and his culpability in numerous coverups was coming to light, was Cardinal Bernard Law, archbishop of Boston, fired or reassigned? And if reassigned, where was he reassigned?

What Penn St has done to date already exceeds our only other similar point of reference.

 

[SueDonJ]

... What Penn St has done to date already exceeds our only other similar point of reference.

Yes it does in some ways. But it's still not enough. As long as the perception remains that Penn State is more concerned with protecting itself than aiding in the healing process of the victims, it's not enough.

 

[ace2000]

Now is the time to act. Delay is another indication that they care more about Paterno and the football program than the victims.

C'mon now... the board at Penn St. still has to give a formal response to Freeh's report. Can we at least wait for that response before calling for immediate action? They are supposed to respond soon.

 

[Elan]

C'mon now... the board at Penn St. still has to give a formal response to Freeh's report. Can we at least wait for that response before calling for immediate action? They are supposed to respond soon.

I agree. Do we know how often the board is meeting? Do we know what options are being discussed? I would have to presume that everything discussed here is or has been on the table at some point.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

I agree. Do we know how often the board is meeting? Do we know what options are being discussed? I would have to presume that everything discussed here is or has been on the table at some point.

Penn State requested the report and paid for the report. Freeh is highly respected. The report is exhaustive. The report is clear. If they criticize the report they are bigger idiots than I already think they are. There is not much to discuss.

I think John Wayne said " We better get moving. Time is a wasten".

 

[SueDonJ]

C'mon now... the board at Penn St. still has to give a formal response to Freeh's report. Can we at least wait for that response before calling for immediate action? They are supposed to respond soon.

Penn State decides to keep Joe Paterno’s statue while the rest of the world collectively shakes its head (Yahoo Sports)

IMO it would appear more favorably on the trustees if they had immediately removed the statue, the same day that Nike took Joe Paterno's name off their facade, and issued a statement to the effect that their utmost concern is with the victims. They could have said the removal would be temporary at least until such time that they've had an opportunity to debate it. They could even play it the way they did the removal of McQueary from the sidelines while they finished out the season last year - in deference to its "safety" because threats had been lodged.

But regardless, according to that link as of Sunday they've not had a vote regarding the statue, there is some strong support for keeping the statue, and in the most surprising statement of all, they believe that it's still possible to separate Joe Paterno's legacy on the field from off.

"Contrary to various reports, neither the Board of Trustees nor University Administration has taken a vote or made a decision regarding the Joe Paterno statue at Beaver Stadium."

Some trustees went even further, insisting Paterno's statue outside Beaver Stadium in State College, Pa., never should be removed.
"It has to stay up," said another trustee. "We have to let a number of months pass, and we'll address it again. But there is no way, no way. It's just not coming down."

"The statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad that he did."

 

[Elan]

NCAA president Emmert's stance (please read):

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state

 

[ace2000]

Penn State decides to keep Joe Paterno’s statue while the rest of the world collectively shakes its head (Yahoo Sports)

The title of that article is very misleading. I think it's only fair to include their own update... which almost appears to be a retraction of the entire article.

Despite the report, Penn State officials say no decision has been made on the fate of Paterno's statue.

"Contrary to various reports, neither the Board of Trustees nor University Administration has taken a vote or made a decision regarding the Joe Paterno statue at Beaver Stadium."

As I said earlier, let's wait until the response to Freeh's report comes out. It won't be long.

 

[SueDonJ]

NCAA president Emmert's stance (please read):

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state

Thanks for that link, Jim. I'm encouraged that the NCAA does not appear to be in awe of the Paterno Legacy.

 

[Tia]

A systemic problem is right.

NCAA president Emmert's stance (please read):

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state

 

[SueDonJ]

The title of that article is very misleading. I think it's only fair to include their own update... which almost appears to be a retraction of the entire article.

Despite the report, Penn State officials say no decision has been made on the fate of Paterno's statue.

"Contrary to various reports, neither the Board of Trustees nor University Administration has taken a vote or made a decision regarding the Joe Paterno statue at Beaver Stadium."

As I said earlier, let's wait until the response to Freeh's report comes out. It won't be long.

I'm confused. My post included the statement you copied about a vote not being taken yet.

My point is that if they had time to formulate statements and be quoted about why they haven't removed the statue, then they had time to make a decision to remove it on at least a temporary basis. And certain statements in that article leave me dumbfounded, that removal of the statue is not an option for at least a few trustees.

 

[geekette]

I'm certain that had there been a Sandusky statue that it would have disappeared quickly.

I don't think the statue is the most pressing item for the trustees nor do I think it should be. I'm not onboard with it 'sending a message' since it's basically a hunk of rock that represents a football coach. I don't agree that its continued presence shows the U cares more about football than the victims.

Are there victims frequenting the statue? I doubt it, and I doubt they think about it at all.

 

[laurac260]

Yes, sounds good, protecting the statue vs protecting a child, simple and pithy, plays well to make a cheap jab. But in actuality is much too simplistic. Trying to, as a body of individuals--with strong lobbying forces (points and counterpoints) on both sides of the issue--what to do, when, the implications, how exactly to manage the implications, etc., is an inordinately challenging, complex, and deliberate process. There are probably group conversations, side conversations, negotiations, debates, arguments, fights, you name it, going on up the totem pole, trying to grasp how exactly to handle what to do about the Penn St. pope, effectively.

Boy I wish we could use the Catholic Church scandal as a reference point to this discussion, but alas.

Beefnot, don't look now, but I think the slogan on the bottom of all your posts is bass ackwards.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Are there victims frequenting the statue? I doubt it, and I doubt they think about it at all.

I'm pretty sure the victims are watching every move the trustees make. And their attorneys are recording it all and watching it repeatedly.

 

[Beefnot]

Beefnot, don't look now, but I think the slogan on the bottom of all your posts is bass ackwards.

You are very correct. I will be changing it shortly.

 

[SueDonJ]

NCAA president Emmert's stance (please read):

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state

I read the article a few more times and watched the video of Mark Emmert delivering sections of his statement, and actually I'm more encouraged than my first reaction. Here's what I think the statement might effectively say to Penn State:

~ The NCAA is in agreement with the "reasonable conclusions" reached in the Freeh report, and has no doubt that while Penn State's situation extended beyond the football program, it is without question a football program-related situation and as such comes under the jurisdiction of the NCAA. Consider this your fair warning. If you do not self-impose a punishment commensurate with the infractions, we will do it for you, and our punishment will exceed any in our association's history. ~

Of course that's what I WANT Emmert's statement to mean, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that it might.

 

[geekette]

I'm pretty sure the victims are watching every move the trustees make. And their attorneys are recording it all and watching it repeatedly.

I doubt it. People move on and try to heal, forget, maybe even try to forgive. Whatever the trustees do or don't do is not going to change much of anything for a vic, so I can't imagine they are following these details nor have much concern as to what happens with the statue. It's quite separate from what happened to the boys, I just can't draw the emotional link from a victim to the statue. Why would they immerse themselves in it?

If someone polls the victims as to what should happen to the statue, that'd be great, go that way, do what they want. But I think the answer would be "who cares?" as it's so trivial in all this.

 

[Elan]

I doubt it. People move on and try to heal, forget, maybe even try to forgive. Whatever the trustees do or don't do is not going to change much of anything for a vic, so I can't imagine they are following these details nor have much concern as to what happens with the statue. It's quite separate from what happened to the boys, I just can't draw the emotional link from a victim to the statue. Why would they immerse themselves in it?

If someone polls the victims as to what should happen to the statue, that'd be great, go that way, do what they want. But I think the answer would be "who cares?" as it's so trivial in all this.

I read a post on another CFB message board that suggested leaving the statue, but adding a plaque detailing Paterno's career, including this last horrid chapter. Let everyone reflect on both the good and the bad. I thought it was a decent idea.

 

[Elan]

From ESPN.com:

"Penn State said it will respond within days to the NCAA's demand for information as the governing body decides whether the university should face penalties -- including a possible shutdown of its storied football program -- in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

Penn State president Rodney Erickson said Tuesday he doesn't want to "jump to conclusions" about possible sanctions after the head of the NCAA declared the so-called death penalty has not been ruled out."

 

[pgnewarkboy]

paterno statue coming down

University is preparing to take statu down today. They say the statue causes pain to victims of child molestation at Penn and elsewhere.

 

[ace2000]

The statue came up quite a bit in the previous Paterno thread. It was the right thing to do and they made the right choice.

Now, the million dollar question is should the football team be punished? I feel that with the upcoming lawsuit liability that Penn State will have suffered enough. I know others would like to see the football team destroyed also.

 

[vacationhopeful]

The local TV news has the construction crew there NOW removing the statue. About 25 guys in white hard hats with a large construction forklift-type mover behind the 6 foot blue tarped fence. It will most likely be gone to storage within the hour. Seen on NBC station.

9AM - Update - Statue is now GONE.