Penn State/Sandusky report is out [merged]

[Beefnot]

I attended a Catholic university and every priest I met seemed to be a sincere and deeply committed Christian. Unfortunately, the entire church has suffered for the sins of a few.

I suppose it depends on how one defines "few", since the coverups of the rampant abuses across the U.S. goes all the way to the top of the Catholic Church. Penn St. Football is a religion to many, so in their eyes they too may find a way to rationalize and parse and qualify and justify this despicable evil.

 

[PStreet1]

I hate what the Catholic Church has done regarding sexual abuse, but Penn. State is much, much worse. At least, the Church shuttled offending priests off to somewhere else (the problem being that they didn't always ensure that the offenders never got access to children again). Penn. State didn't even do that much. If they couldn't face the criticism Penn State would get, they could have told Sandusky to go quietly or they would make it public. The man would have left. IMO, it would have been Penn State's responsibility to make sure their recomendation wasn't glowing----but they didn't do that.

At a high school I was teaching at, when the new principal learned that a coach was abusing boys, he immediately took action....but he couldn't get any member of the team to press charges. Therefore, the principal had no legal tools to use, so he used various adjustments in schedule/duties/title that he did have access to, and the coach chose to leave. He was, for some reason, not able to obtain another coaching position in spite of his having been one of the most successful high school coaches in the country. I've never asked the principal why that was the case, but I assume the recomendation somehow managed to convey that the coach should not be hired without leaving the school/principal open to charges of libel.

Penn State chose not to act, and for that, they are truly at fault.

 

[SueDonJ]

I suppose it depends on how one defines "few", since the coverups of the rampant abuses across the U.S. goes all the way to the top of the Catholic Church. Penn St. Football is a religion to many, so in their eyes they too may find a way to rationalize and parse and qualify and justify this despicable evil.

At least those of us who feel we were betrayed by our Church and have chosen to leave the Church can still rely on the foundations of our faith to get us through; we haven't lost everything by choosing to not attend Mass or support our local parishes. The betrayal by all those associated with the Penn State football scandal might actually affect those faithful followers on a greater scale - what will they rely on if the program is shut down?

(I don't want to be misunderstood here - IMO the Catholic Church scandal is infinitely more heinous and unforgivable than the Penn State scandal. But that's because one personally affected me to a much greater degree than the other ever could, and I truly cannot comprehend that kind of worship of a sports entity. I think it's still important to recognize the extent to which the Penn State scandal may be affecting those closely connected to it.)

 

[pianodinosaur]

I suppose it depends on how one defines "few", since the coverups of the rampant abuses across the U.S. goes all the way to the top of the Catholic Church. Penn St. Football is a religion to many, so in their eyes they too may find a way to rationalize and parse and qualify and justify this despicable evil.

I was not attempting to minimize or pardon the actions of the Catholic Church. The main point of my epistle was to point out that innocent people often suffer consequences when the guilty are punished. This is sometimes unavoidable. Every citizen of Pennsylvania will be punished once the civil litigation begins. This is necessary if justice is to be served.

 

[ricoba]

I want to make a simple suggestion that we not post about the Catholic Church scandal. While there may or may not be similarities, the Church issue is legal and religious and as such, it's kind of a no-no here.

Just want to keep the thread from being closed.

 

[Beefnot]

Any talk of shutting down Penn St. is a bit extreme. I would not think there would be any serious considerations as such. But an NCAA-imposed death penalty to the football program, that is very intriguing and I would love to see it, provided they have legal cover to do so. Maybe 5 seasons of no games, no scholarships, no nothing for the football program.

 

[zinger1457]

I hate what the Catholic Church has done regarding sexual abuse, but Penn. State is much, much worse. At least, the Church shuttled offending priests off to somewhere else (the problem being that they didn't always ensure that the offenders never got access to children again).

Not defending what the officials at Penn State did but the sexual abuse cases of the Catholic Church number in the 1000's and was swept under the rug for decades. And that's just in the US.

 

[Clemson Fan]

Board of Trustees

IMO, I think the Board of Trustees has actually done a fairly admirable job with this situation. After the grand jury testimony came out last fall, they acted fairly quickly to include firing the president and Paterno. At the time nobody really knew what Paterno's involvement entailed and they came under a lot of fire for firing him. The night he was fired there were riots on the campus and members of the Board of Trustees subsequently received a lot of death threats and they were vilified for firing the beloved Paterno.

They then went out and found the most impeccable person they could find and commissioned him and paid him millions to do an independent investigation. By all accounts they gave Louis Freed complete autonomy and access to everything and everyone. They didn't request a private review of Mr. Freed's report and they learned of its contents at the same time everybody else did. They have been completely transparent in this process. I think they knew this report could be damning and that it would make them very legally vulnerable, but they did the stand up thing (something Paterno failed to do) and they commissioned it anyway.

I believe they've set up some sort of victim fund and I think they've contacted the known victims and have begun discussions about financial compensation. Granted they're probably being proactive regarding civil suits, but it does look like they're taking the course of action to not duel this out in court with the victims. It appears that they really want to do what they can to help out and compensate the victims and they're not fighting the universities culpability.

By all accounts it appears the Board of Trustees was kept in the dark about all of this by the gang of 4 including the President, VP, AD and Paterno who perpetrated the cover up.

They still have work to do by removing the statue and shutting the football program down. If they do that I would really praise them and give them an A+ for how they've handled this situation. As it stands right now, I still would give them a solid B.

I just think they've been unfairly vilified to this point. They've been handed an unimaginable horrible situation and IMO they've dealt with it in a very admirable and stand up way to this point.

 

[Patri]

I just think they've been unfairly vilified to this point. They've been handed an unimaginable horrible situation and IMO they've dealt with it in a very admirable and stand up way to this point.

However, I do think anyone who was on the board when the 1998 and 2001 news was out should step down. Spanier ruled the board with an iron fist, and no one questioned him or acted independently. Being a trustee appears to have been more an elite title to add to a resume. If those men and women didn't have the courage to behave responsibly then, it's too easy to take a stand now, when it is the only course of action to take.

 

[lvhmbh]

In the paper today a lawyer from another college was saying that if Paterno was alive he could be tried for perjury. It was also suggested that his estate could be sued as it is a very wealthy estate.

 

[Mosca]

All we can say for sure at this point is that it is far from over. IMO the report is as damning toward Paterno as it could possibly be, short of finding him participating along with Sandusky. And it is equally damning toward the administrator of Penn State, for following Paterno's lead.

How to punish? That's for others to decide. I'm more concerned with how to keep it from happening again. But the insidious thing about predators is that they use our good and trusting nature to prey on us and our children.

 

[kenie]

I do not believe that the innocent should be punished along with the guilty.
Firing the entire staff of the Penn State football program is certainly appropriate. Perhaps, the entire football program at Penn State should be shut down. However, the current players should not lose their scholarships. If the Penn State football program is shut down, the current players should be allowed to continue their education at Penn State with their scholarships intact. Very few college football players make it to the pros, even at a school like Penn State.

If it wasn't for the football scholarship, many of these "student athletes" wouldn't be anywhere near Penn State, or any other University.
To eliminate the football program and allow the player to remain at Penn State would be pointless as there would be no reason to ignore their academic short-comings.
The only reason "most" of these "students" are there is to make money for the school by playing football...

 

[Beefnot]

If a school's athletic program receives the death penalty, the student athletes are permitted to transfer to other schools without jeopardy to their NCAA eligibility. Students who are good enough to transfer and receive scholarships elsewhere, would.

 

[Mel]

If it wasn't for the football scholarship, many of these "student athletes" wouldn't be anywhere near Penn State, or any other University.
To eliminate the football program and allow the player to remain at Penn State would be pointless as there would be no reason to ignore their academic short-comings.
The only reason "most" of these "students" are there is to make money for the school by playing football...

If a school's athletic program receives the death penalty, the student athletes are permitted to transfer to other schools without jeopardy to their NCAA eligibility. Students who are good enough to transfer and receive scholarships elsewhere, would.

The best of the players would likely transfer, but if the program is dropped before this next season, will the other schools have scholarships available - or will their scholarship money already be committed to their current players? Penn State may have as many as 85 players on scholarship - is there space on the other schools' rosters, with aid, to absorb them this quickly? I suspect the best of the best would be picked up by another school, but some might be stuck. The right thing for Penn to do for them would be to offer a "merit" scholarship to them, but to insist on requirements to keep those scholarships, similar to requirements for regular merit scholarships (in many schools, a full-ride merit scholarship requires the student to maintain a 3.5 GPA. With that kind of requirement, those former football players would either have one free semester to work on transferring somewhere for affordable, or learn to be scholars. Seems like a fair compromise to me. Remember also that their only options for fall semester of 2012 would be community college or someplace with rolling admission that is still accepting applications.

 

[Elan]

Interesting poll regarding Paterno's legacy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=ncf&pollId=142842

 

[ace2000]

Interesting poll regarding Paterno's legacy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=ncf&pollId=142842

I saw an interesting poll taken by the local paper - pennlive.com . Over 60% of them voted to take the statue down. That probably is a good indicator that the statue will be coming down!

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/joe_paternos_statue_at_penn_st.html

 

[ricoba]

So it looks like Paterno was trying to sweeten his retirement deal the same month he testified before the grand jury. This is the AP Story.

Kind of puts a sour taste in my mouth, making me think all he ever did was look out for himself.

 

[vacationhopeful]

The best of the best should just hire good agents. As their current (Penn State) franchise is (in the future is) defunk, they should just scream "FREE AGENT" and collect the NFL money. Afterall, they could get hurt playing for in the college (minor) league system.

And why move to a school where they have to go to class and have a dorm room with a roommate or two? And no special dining hall and menu.:ignore:

 

[Patri]

The best of the best should just hire good agents. As their current (Penn State) franchise is (in the future is) defunk, they should just scream "FREE AGENT" and collect the NFL money. Afterall, they could get hurt playing for in the college (minor) league system.

And why move to a school where they have to go to class and have a dorm room with a roommate or two? And no special dining hall and menu.:ignore:

Aren't we getting a little carried away now, slamming the athletes? Many fine young men and woman play sports in college, graduate, get good jobs and contribute to society. What is wrong with those high school boys who dreamed of playing football for Penn State? (Or any Division I) To make a blanket statement about them is just plain mean.
They are no different than any student who chose PSU for any reason. Even those who are simply academic and make straight 'A's in high school don't always make the Dean's List in college as they adjust to the new life. It's a learning curve for everyone at any college. Some do well (most) and some don't. And at whatever stage they leave in four years, they have grown and do assimilate in a community doing something! I haven't heard that the football players all turn to crime or welfare or anything else horrible. They get jobs, marry, etc.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Aren't we getting a little carried away now,....

Having gone to 3 different colleges to get my undergraduate degree, I may be a little jaded in my answer. There is beaucoup stress and lost credits along with the requirements for your major being "just not the same". Plus, Penn State had the special dorms and dining halls for these guys. And most likely a new roommate and new teammates would await all those who transferred.

IF I was a semester or two short of my degree, I would do the parttime/ spring term route at Penn State vs transferring.

If I was a junior and knew my chances of fame and fortune in the NFL was unlikely, I would just stay and finish my Penn State program.

If I was an inbound Freshman or rising Sophmore, transferring this summer might make sense. Plus, my value ($) to the NFL would still be increasing.

PS When I transferred the first time, the department advisor had me in ALL freshman level courses in my major. I carried rising senior status in credit hours - but in my major, the course work was NOT the same as their program (so they would have your believe). And I have 2 totally different roommates in my dorm inside the first month - one who move to an ethic dorm and the other (and her girlfriend/lover) who hated me.

 

[pedro47]

The legacy of the coach and his football program has been totally destroyed. The icing on the cake will be or the final nail hammer into Paterno coffin will be when Sandusky is convicted in a court of law,

 

[Passepartout]

The legacy of the coach and his football program has been totally destroyed. The icing on the cake will be or the final nail hammer into Paterno coffin will be when Sandusky is convicted in a court of law,

Where have you been? Jerry is in prison and will be for the rest of his life. All that remains (imo) is the outcomes in civil court of victims compensation and just punishment for the football program at Penn State. The damage has been done. Now to rebuild in such a way that is can't happen again.

What we say here in TUG matters little. It's in the hands of the courts.

Jim

 

[Beefnot]

Sandusky has been convicted and is awaiting sentencing.

 

[SueDonJ]

... What we say here in TUG matters little. ...

Jim

Of course that's true. But I think that "public opinion" will matter eventually to those who can and should take decisive actions now that the scope of the travesty has been mostly revealed. I think that there's a rising tide of complete and utter disgust with the arrogance displayed by those in power at Penn State who allowed this travesty to happen, and I think that the university isn't going to be able to recover a great deal of what it lost unless and until they begin listening to the voices who are clamoring for justice for the victims. So while our little discussion on TUG really means nothing in the grand scheme, others like it are taking place all over the country through various communication means and the vast majority of participants now realize the seriousness of this travesty. Every discussion counts, every voice matters.

Silence implies consent.

 

[ace2000]

What we say here in TUG matters little. It's in the hands of the courts.

Jim

I don't think anyone here feels their post on TUG is going to make a big difference in the grand scheme of things. It's just a place to vent and have a conversation.