Penn State/Sandusky report is out [merged]

[geekette]

U of Penn is NOT a state school, but a PRIVATE university which was founded by Benj Franklin and is part of the Ivy League. It is located in Philadephia - in the university city area next to Drexel University.

I think you ment Penn State...

Can I play What If for a minute, tho? What If PennSt were a state school - would taxpayers be on the hook for damages/settlements once the school money is gone?

just curious. bad crap happens at schools and I had not considered my tax dollars going to such a thing.

 

[ace2000]

Can I play What If for a minute, tho? What If PennSt were a state school - would taxpayers be on the hook for damages/settlements once the school money is gone?

just curious. bad crap happens at schools and I had not considered my tax dollars going to such a thing.

Penn St is a state school. I'm sure they get state funding. So, does that state funding go directly to the lawsuit? No. However, indirectly... yes.

It would be interesting to know what kind of reserves the school has currently.

 

[DeniseM]

Penn State is a public school - the post you referenced was about the University of Penn.

 

[SueDonJ]

Penn St is a state school. I'm sure they get state funding. So, does that state funding go directly to the lawsuit? No. However, indirectly... yes.

It would be interesting to know what kind of reserves the school has currently.

Geekette asked the same thing I was asking. Are you saying that the settlements can/will only be paid out to a cap consisting of whatever funds are in the school's coffers now? Or can/will state funds be used to cover any settlements over and above what's in the school coffers?

 

[Elan]

If this article is to be believed, I was mistaken in my earlier presumption that the victims would be awarded large damages in civil court:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/07/penn-state-faces-5m-in-sex-case-settlements/

 

[DeniseM]

It's all the same - the dollars in the school's reserves are state funds.

Now that you know that the tax payers are paying for this, is your opinion different?

 

[ace2000]

Geekette asked the same thing I was asking. Are you saying that the settlements can/will only be paid out to a cap consisting of whatever funds are in the school's coffers now? Or can/will state funds be used to cover any settlements over and above what's in the school coffers?

No, I am not saying there is any cap. I'm just curious if the school has enough in reserves to easily accommodate the lawsuits.

 

[ace2000]

If this article is to be believed, I was mistaken in my earlier presumption that the victims would be awarded large damages in civil court:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/07/penn-state-faces-5m-in-sex-case-settlements/

Guess it depends on your definition of what the word large means. They're estimating the damages and settlements at $5M for the potential lawsuits.

 

[ace2000]

It's all the same - the dollars in the school's reserves are state funds.

Now that you know that the tax payers are paying for this, is your opinion different?

You can say that to a certain degree. A state school brings in revenue also in tuition and other sources. One could even say that the football attendance will help pay for it all. Who knows how they're going to communicate how they're going to pay for it.

 

[geekette]

It's all the same - the dollars in the school's reserves are state funds.

Now that you know that the tax payers are paying for this, is your opinion different?

Of course not.

Were I a PA resident, I would prefer my tax dollars go to actual victims vs the never-employed, never-married baby momma of 8 looking for food stamps.

 

[SueDonJ]

If this article is to be believed, I was mistaken in my earlier presumption that the victims would be awarded large damages in civil court:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/07/penn-state-faces-5m-in-sex-case-settlements/

I think I disagree with the premise in that article that "a $500,000 settlement for some of these victims is probably substantial.” Perhaps that's a substantial amount for a singular act of child sex abuse, but the mitigating factor here is that a large-scale cover-up was committed by several powerful people in order to protect their program that harbored the pedophile responsible for unknown numbers of criminal acts against multiple victims over a period of years. This situation so closely mirrors the Catholic Church scandal, and hundreds of millions have been awarded in those settlements. There's no reason to think that those settlements won't be the precedence for what's settled against Penn State.

 

[SueDonJ]

It's all the same - the dollars in the school's reserves are state funds.

Now that you know that the tax payers are paying for this, is your opinion different?

No. It's sad and unfair, but the taxpayers are simply more innocent victims of the culture that was embraced and allowed to flourish at Penn State. What's equally sad is that the majority who embraced the culture will probably never place the blame squarely where it belongs*, on the Penn State football program leaders and certain members of the administration.

*Of course Jerry Sandusky is to blame first and foremost. But I'm talking here about what will ultimately be responsible for the difference between a $500K typical settlement and the millions I would expect. If I was on the jury that's what I'd award, anyway.

 

[Elan]

Guess it depends on your definition of what the word large means. They're estimating the damages and settlements at $5M for the potential lawsuits.

$5M is chump change at a school like PSU. I would guess their football coaching staff alone draws that in annual salary.

BTW, PSU took in over $200M in donations in the last fiscal yr:

"In a year marred with controversy and national notoriety, Penn State University alumni and boosters finally have something to smile about.

In fiscal year 2011-2012, the school earned $208.7 million in donations -- the second-highest annual amount in school history -- according to a release from the Development and Alumni Relations division."

 

[ace2000]

$5M is chump change at a school like PSU. I would guess their football coaching staff alone draws that in annual salary.

BTW, PSU took in over $200M in donations in the last fiscal yr:

"In a year marred with controversy and national notoriety, Penn State University alumni and boosters finally have something to smile about.

In fiscal year 2011-2012, the school earned $208.7 million in donations -- the second-highest annual amount in school history -- according to a release from the Development and Alumni Relations division."

Perhaps you're right. What you're not factoring in is the hit on enrollment that the school is going to suffer because of this. That will probably do more financial damage than the lawsuits. Then think about donations also.

Think about how many students choose Penn St just because they have a good football team or the prestige of the school. If this episode impacts the football team and/or the school's prestige, which it will, that will mean far more in lost revenue. It may not be right that students choose a school because of big college sports, but it's reality.

 

[Elan]

I think I disagree with the premise in that article that "a $500,000 settlement for some of these victims is probably substantial.”

I agree. At the time of my earlier post I was assuming that damages would be in the tens, if not hundreds, of millions. We shall see.

It will be very strange if PSU gets away with no sanctions against the football team and less than $10M in damages.

 

[SueDonJ]

Perhaps you're right. What you're not factoring in is the hit on enrollment that the school is going to suffer because of this. That will probably do more financial damage than the lawsuits. Then think about donations also.

Think about how many students choose Penn St just because they have a good football team or the prestige of the school. If this episode impacts the football team and/or the school's prestige, which it will, that will mean far more in lost revenue. It may not be right that students choose a school because of big college sports, but it's reality.

Earlier in the thread (#19) ThreeLittleBirds talked about how difficult it will be for the culture to be overcome. I've been thinking about the generational pull of Penn State, about how many alumni may have been pressured by their families to continue the Penn State tradition, and about how many future college students might be forced to kowtow to such familial pressure despite their own private misgivings.

There are so many different angles to this sordid mess.

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree. At the time of my earlier post I was assuming that damages would be in the tens, if not hundreds, of millions. We shall see.

It will be very strange if PSU gets away with no sanctions against the football team and less than $10M in damages.

Completely agree. I think your original premise will be proven correct.

 

[SueDonJ]

No, I am not saying there is any cap. I'm just curious if the school has enough in reserves to easily accommodate the lawsuits.

Ah, got it. Thanks.

 

[zinger1457]

Perhaps you're right. What you're not factoring in is the hit on enrollment that the school is going to suffer because of this. That will probably do more financial damage than the lawsuits. Then think about donations also.

Think about how many students choose Penn St just because they have a good football team or the prestige of the school. If this episode impacts the football team and/or the school's prestige, which it will, that will mean far more in lost revenue. It may not be right that students choose a school because of big college sports, but it's reality.

There may be some students that will choose another school over Penn State but like most top colleges they will always turn away many more students then they accept, even with this scandal.

 

[Beefnot]

Interesting skimming through the Paterno-worshipping comments in the R.I.P. Paterno thread then skimming through the decidedly more subdued comments here. I hope that after this very through investigation, we will see the fawning over this man who put his football program over the welfare of children dissolve, as well as his formerly larger-than-life legacy.

 

[ace2000]

If this article is to be believed, I was mistaken in my earlier presumption that the victims would be awarded large damages in civil court:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/07/penn-state-faces-5m-in-sex-case-settlements/

Maybe you want to go back to your original estimate... this one says $100M.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf-...ky-victims-cost-joe-paterno-freeh-report.html

 

[Mel]

U of Penn is NOT a state school, but a PRIVATE university which was founded by Benj Franklin and is part of the Ivy League. It is located in Philadephia - in the university city area next to Drexel University.

I think you ment Penn State...

Yes, I did... sorry, was up very early this morning dealing with kids. How long until they go back? 53 days and counting! I'm looking forward to that even more than the next vacation!

 

[pianodinosaur]

I do not believe that the innocent should be punished along with the guilty.

Not all Germans were Nazis. When Hitler ran for election, only 30% of Dachau voted for Hitler. However, all Dachau was held accountable for the atrocities at Dachau. All Germans suffered as a consequence of WW2.

Very few people who worked for Bernie Madoff knew about his massive Ponzi scheme until the market collapse of 2008. However, everyone who worked for Madoff lost their job when his evil deeds were uncovered.

There are numerous other examples that can be cited regarding the cruel and seemingly unfair nature of justice in our world as it has existed. Penn State and all people living in the State of Pennsylvania will suffer as the civil litigation begins. This has tarnised not only Penn State but the entire State of Pensylvania will suffer just as the Catholic Church has suffered. (I attended a Catholic university and every priest I met seemed to be a sincere and deeply committed Christian. Unfortunately, the entire church has suffered for the sins of a few.)

I also attended The University of Chicago. The Monsters Of The Midway have been long gone. The University of Chicago made the decision that varsity athletics such as football detracted from the academic nature of the institution. The University of Chicago remains well endowed and is a fabulous institution for higher education and research.

Firing the entire staff of the Penn State football program is certainly appropriate. Perhaps, the entire football program at Penn State should be shut down. However, the current players should not lose their scholarships. If the Penn State football program is shut down, the current players should be allowed to continue their education at Penn State with their scholarships intact. Very few college football players make it to the pros, even at a school like Penn State.

 

[Patri]

Can someone get inside the heads of the four? I just don't understand how they thought the truth would never come out, unless for some reason they believed Sandusky had stopped. Despite their loyalty to the football program and Penn State as a whole, they all knew boys grew up. They all knew people talk. They all knew computer and phone records are never private, and that paper trails can be followed. They all knew the other three had some knowledge about Sandusky, so most likely other adults did too, which could mean a leak at some point.

It is just unfathomable the four thought the secret was safe if they also knew Sandusky was continuing to prey on children.

 

[SueDonJ]

Can someone get inside the heads of the four? I just don't understand how they thought the truth would never come out, unless for some reason they believed Sandusky had stopped. Despite their loyalty to the football program and Penn State as a whole, they all knew boys grew up. They all knew people talk. They all knew computer and phone records are never private, and that paper trails can be followed. They all knew the other three had some knowledge about Sandusky, so most likely other adults did too, which could mean a leak at some point.

It is just unfathomable the four thought the secret was safe if they also knew Sandusky was continuing to prey on children.

I think in that way they were all as deluded by that culture as anybody. They truly believed that they were important enough that however they chose to deal with Sandusky, they would be protected by their stature in the community. Despite knowing enough to try to cover their tracks, they believed that if/when the story got out there would be an outpouring of sympathy for the position that Sandusky put them in. They knew that the community's success rested on the success of the football program, and they believed that they would be forgiven for misplacing their priorities in order to protect the program and thus, the community.

In some ways they were correct in their thinking - there are still many, many people in that local community as well as nationwide members of similar communities who believe that these four most powerful men at Penn State were victims of circumstance, and that the football program does not deserve the ultimate punishment. It's a powerful thing to overcome, that kind of cancerous culture that festers beyond all reason.