Owner Update and HGV Max

[brp]

I don't think they would count toward elite but just the point total for club use unless they are resale from a developer.

That's what I expected. It would have to the case unless they further bucketized things into Retail/Resale...and I don't expect that at all.

Much like, before they separated HGVC and bHC points, anyone who owned a bHC could use all points for bHC reservations. Those were the good old days

Then they made buckets to separate that. But I highly doubt that they'll separate out resale. So, anyone who achieves a proper elite level with retail can add more points via resale and be able to endow them with the elite booking windows.

The "elite counter" would be separate and there retail/resale would matter. At least that's what I expect even after one achieves elite legitimately.

Cheers.

 

[GT75]

The "elite counter" would be separate and there retail/resale would matter. At least that's what I expect even after one achieves elite legitimately.

This is the way that it currently is.

 

[HuskerATL]

So, I asked the rep for clarification on the 10 month Legacy Search Request and he punted. See below:

"Every Preferred Member will be contacted over the next couple of months by the Expert Membership Team to explain the Loyalty Search benefits and how to take advantage of it."

 

[Nowaker]

"Every Preferred Member will be contacted over the next couple of months by the Expert Membership Team to explain the Loyalty Search benefits and how to take advantage of it."

That... That's a great way to put it. Not!

 

[ocdb8r]

Question is: Would those resale points contribute to further elite levels if you were already in, or just add to the balance you had and be included in the privileges of the elite level that you had achieved from retail?

Cheers.

In the past they did NOT contribute to further elite levels. Your "level" was determined solely by your retail/direct purchases, but all other points in your account (if bought resale) had the same benefits of your retail/direct determined elite level.

 

[Smclaugh99]

In the past they did NOT contribute to further elite levels. Your "level" was determined solely by your retail/direct purchases, but all other points in your account (if bought resale) had the same benefits of your retail/direct determined elite level.

Yes - definitely true. But for the Centum tier in HGV Max, the threshold is >100k points. I find it difficult to think there is more than a tiny pool of people who have/will purchase that many retail points. However, the pool of owners who own a hybrid retail/resale portfolio with points >100k seems much larger. Will attempt to find out. But as it stands now, I’m not interested in giving them even $7k more to join HGV Max. The only DRI-owned resorts I’d be interested in are the Embarc (old Club IntraWest) and I’m hoping they get added to the main HGVC portfolio.

Sean

 

[dayooper]

Yes - definitely true. But for the Centum tier in HGV Max, the threshold is >100k points. I find it difficult to think there is more than a tiny pool of people who have/will purchase that many retail points. However, the pool of owners who own a hybrid retail/resale portfolio with points >100k seems much larger. Will attempt to find out. But as it stands now, I’m not interested in giving them even $7k more to join HGV Max. The only DRI-owned results I’d be interested in are the Embarc (old Club IntraWest) and I’m hoping they get added to the main HGVC portfolio.

Sean

They have to be able to sell them something. Without being able to reach the next status level, they have nothing to sell the mega owners. There are people who, if given a goal, will "strive" to reach that mark. That many points (almost double) will keep some people buying and the cash flowing into the HGVC coffers for a long time.

 

[GMan82]

... The only DRI-owned resorts I’d be interested in are the Embarc (old Club IntraWest) and I’m hoping they get added to the main HGVC portfolio.

Sean

Are they actually going to rebrand some DRI resorts into HGVC? I remember the thing about HVC vs HGVC, but if re-branded does that mean we non-Max club members would then get regular access to those at the 9 month mark? They’d take it away from the legacy DRI members?

 

[GT75]

The only DRI-owned results I’d be interested in are the Embarc (old Club IntraWest) and I’m hoping they get added to the main HGVC portfolio.

Same here. I would like something similar to the exchange program we had back in ~2015. I don't see that happening. Now, I know that CI/Embarc has their own booking rules which (IMO) need to be maintained for their owners, and of course HGVC has their own also. But, I would like a fair exchange between the two systems. We have "heard" that these resorts are being rebranded as HGVC, so in my opinion that should be folded into HGVC (w/o any additional purchase on either part). If this will require some type of purchase such as HGV Max then we will know that HGV is only trying to make money from current owners in the process. I really don't have any interest in any of the DRI resorts especially if I need to pay something.

 

[GT75]

Are they actually going to rebrand some DRI resorts into HGVC? I remember the thing about HVC vs HGVC, but if re-branded does that mean we non-Max club members would then get regular access to those at the 9 month mark? They’d take it away from the legacy DRI members?

Same question which we will need to wait until the rules with resorts are rolled out. We have already heard that all of the CI/Embarc resorts will be rebranded as HGVC (I don't think that I have that wrong but I have messed up HGV, HGVC, HC and HVC before).

 

[dayooper]

Are they actually going to rebrand some DRI resorts into HGVC? I remember the thing about HVC vs HGVC, but if re-branded does that mean we non-Max club members would then get regular access to those at the 9 month mark? They’d take it away from the legacy DRI members?

DRI members never had access to Embarc. When DRI purchased Embarc, the owners used a clause in their contract to put up a barrier to DRI. DRI legacy owners wouldn't lose anything as they never had access.

Back in October, there was a letter sent to Embarc owners that said their resorts were of HGVC quality and would be branded as such. Who knows if they will be available to Legacy HGVC members or just HGV Max members?

 

[dayooper]

Same question which we will need to wait until the rules with resorts are rolled out. We have already heard that all of the CI/Embarc resorts will be rebranded as HGVC (I don't think that I have that wrong but I have messed up HGV, HGVC, HC and HVC before).

We now have to add HGVM.

 

[edboyd59]

Are they actually going to rebrand some DRI resorts into HGVC? I remember the thing about HVC vs HGVC, but if re-branded does that mean we non-Max club members would then get regular access to those at the 9 month mark? They’d take it away from the legacy DRI members?

Most, if not all, DRI labeling and signage are already being replaced with HGV's version of the same. There are some properties on the lower end of the spectrum that I don't believe have been determined to be up to Hilton standards (no, I don't have those specifics). What they are going to do with those properties is not publicly known at this point, as far as I know. There are a number of properties that have not aged well, and these will be renovated to bring them up to HGV standards before being brought into the fold, as I understand it.

The long end of this is that DRI will no longer exist once the merger process is complete. Everything will be changed over to some form of HGV when all is said and done. The splash screen when the DR site is first opened should provide you with the validation that this is true. Also, any emails that are being sent by DR or its employees used to have [name]@diamondresorts.com as the source, now they all end with @HGV.com. In the minds of corporate, DR already no longer exists.

 

[dano92009]

So we are in Hawaii right now and staying at the Bay Club. We went to the owner's update today because I wanted to hear about the Diamond updates and get discounted tickets for the Luau. A big part of the update was about HGV Max. They said that we don't need to do anything if we don't want to have access to the Diamond properties and the program will stay the same but if you do, then you need to join HGV Max. There are many more properties with that acquisition than just HGVC plus the Diamond properties use less points per stay so you gain nights per year. The cost to join is about $50k and will not be deeded unless you modify your existing ownership in some way then you are automatically in during this grand father period.

We have our Tuscany property that we bought in 2003 from the HGVC and then we have 2 gold Blvd properties that we bought last year via resales for about $6k total. They offered us the original sale price for the resales, which was about $45k as a trade in toward a platinum 2 bedroom at Kahola Suites, which was $70k, so we could pay the difference. This purchase could do three things for us: get us into Max, give us Elite status, and reduce our maintenance a little. He advised us not to trade in the Tuscany since we only paid $15k for it on 2003. If we went that route, then the combined point change would require going into the new preferred points structure and be a lot more expensive versus keeping the Tuscany and just selling the Blvds in the previous point structure.

The interesting thing is the offer of the original price paid for the resale. When I bought them, I didn't even ask about that but now that I see how HGVC is treating them for "upgrades" it is worth getting a cheap resale that had a high original purchase price and using it toward getting into Max. He told me that there is no guarantee that they will take a resale though and that they are going to start devaluing resales and limiting benefits. He also said that the elite benefits are being updated and the ones that he talked about the most are the ability to book 10 months out, no reservation fees for any reservations, and access to other elite only benefits like the King's Land pool of you are at Kahola or Bay Club.

Weird coincidence. We also just got a presentation yesterday from the Bay Club and we have Tuscany too.
Our sales guy said that there was only one path to HGV Max - Buy another deeded property. He pushed a few $13K and $16K properties on us.
He never offered to buy properties back (We also own Tuscany, but Scotland too) even though I told him I wished to consolidate to avoid paying fees in dollars, pounds, and euros each year. Now I'm seeing that there is a "simple" $7K fee to pay without any new purchase. Sales people being inconsistent? Shocked!
Until now, I've never bothered with resale, but maybe it is time to start looking at a few. Does anyone have a favorite site that brokers them?

Dan

 

[Nowaker]

He told me that there is no guarantee that they will take a resale though and that they are going to start devaluing resales and limiting benefits.

This is just FOMO to get a sale NOW. Everyone heard about how $x per point is today's price, and next month/quarter/year after some big event, it will be $x * 1.1, so buy now to get the good price, or buy our VIP package to experience the club and secure $x per point price... Yada yada. Or that the only way to join (non-existent! not-promised!) HGV Max it so buy NOW, before April announcement! Yada yada, we already know retail purchases after announcement will qualify you to HGV Max, as well as paying up a one-time $7k fee.

I think their business continuity requires trade-ins as part of selling to existing owners. After all, if an owner is ready to pay HGVC $10k or $20k for something, but does not want to purchase a shitty Studio deed with a terrible MFpp, HGVC must offer a trade-in. Otherwise, HGVC will pass an opportunity to make $10k or $20k, and they never want to pass any opportunity to part you with your money.

Moreover, from a CFO-level point of view, they probably cannot "devalue" old deeds on trade-ins because it would affect their share price. Finance team would not allow to acquire an asset for $10 but put a value of that asset as $15,000 in the balance sheet in the long run. One-time infrequent ROFRs, that's okay, but when it becomes a norm, and there's way way more trade-ins than ROFRs, it would become huge problem. When you acquire 50 deeds for $10 apiece, and you also hold 100 identical unsold deeds that are valued at $15,000 apiece on the balance sheet, you have a big problem, because you have to re-adjust the value for compliance reasons (SEC). Out of a sudden, the value of assets on the balance sheet dips, and so does the share value. Therefore, they must maintain the fiction that their deeds are worth $15,000 apiece for compliance reason. And since their business continuity depends on trade-ins, they cannot devalue said trade-ins.

 

[GMan82]

Another thread mentioned that Sedona would be coming on line for Max soon. On the Hilton hotel website, Sedona summit is mentioned as “Hilton Vacation Club.” I picked a random week in July (16-23 x 7 days) and can get a room for $1280 inclusive of tax. It’s a special rate without the resort fee. How much is the annual MF there? If renting for a week isn’t that much more expensive than the MF, why bother with spending $7k + this supposed $1k per deed to buy into Max, or upgrade a deed for tens of thousands of dollars retail?

 

[Nowaker]

$1280 inclusive of tax

And now that is now branded as HVC, it will qualify as 14x pts on Amex Aspire = 17,920 HH pts.

 

[Vaquero]

I guess I will be waiting until all this works itself out and we can see what a resale can get you. My guess is it will take a few years to consolidate the properties and merge the owners together while penalizing the ones that didn't come over.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

We didn't get 14x at Cabo Azul with Hilton Aspire this spring so we used Chase Sapphire.

 

[PigsDad]

I guess I will be waiting until all this works itself out and we can see what a resale can get you. My guess is it will take a few years to consolidate the properties and merge the owners together while penalizing the ones that didn't come over.

As a fellow resale owner, how do you think we are being penalized? We have access to the same set of resorts vs. before the merger, we have the same booking rules for those resorts, our fees didn't change (except for the normal small increases that always happen). I can't think of really anything that has changed in a significant way.

Kurt

 

[dayooper]

I guess I will be waiting until all this works itself out and we can see what a resale can get you. My guess is it will take a few years to consolidate the properties and merge the owners together while penalizing the ones that didn't come over.

This thread is over 1 year old and we have had many changes in what we know since this. Much of what was told to owners back in April of 2022 has not come to fruition, even removed from the current club rules and guidelines.

One of the more important things we have learned is that Max is NOT a separate division of resorts, it's a platform that allows cross booking between the different divisions (HGVC -bHC included/HVC/Embarc HGVC). There is nothing to merge as the deeds and charters of each division would be very difficult, if not impossible to put in the same group. Obviously this can change and they can do whatever they want.

 

[ernststarhemberg]

Got an HGVMax email. Knew about the guest certificates already, but the annual resort credits and open season credits I wasn't aware of:

....


Since the launch of HGV Max just over a year ago, I’ve been thrilled to see valued Members like you take advantage of its many features and benefits like the ability to book across all properties in the expanded resort network and rental discounts using the HGV Max Rate with Hilton Hotels to vacation in more destinations.

We’ve been working diligently to enable many of the planned benefits of the program, starting with the most critical, and promise to keep you updated when new benefits become available to you. Today, I’m excited to announce two new features that are now part of your HGV Max membership:

Complimentary Guest Certificates: Earlier this month, HGVClub Members with HGV Max benefits received an annual allotment of one to six Guest Certificates based on their membership tier.
For example, all HGV Max Members receive one complimentary Guest Certificate while HGV Max Members in the Centum+ tier receive an additional five — so the more you own, the more opportunities you have to share the gift of vacation with others. Check the status of your Guest Certificates here by clicking on My Guest Certificates.
European Resort Access: In addition to existing Hilton Grand Vacations Club properties in Europe, HGVClub Members with HGV Max benefits now have access to 12 more European resorts in England, Scotland, France, Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain including the Canary Islands. And more European properties will be added as we move forward.
Throughout the summer and fall, we’re looking forward to launching additional features as part of your HGV Max benefits such as:

An Upgraded Travel Services Platform: Our enhanced travel platform will incorporate better technology and provide more payment options for Members booking experiences like cruises, airlines, rental cars and guided journeys. Enhanced conversion opportunities for your ClubPoints will increase based on your membership tier, allowing you to stretch your points further and expand your travel options.
Ride-share Transportation Credit: Our upper-tier Premier+ and Centum+ Members will receive an annual rideshare credit for transportation between eligible airports and HGV resorts, offsetting the cost of your rides until the credit amount is fully applied.
$100 Resort Credit: Our Premier+ and Centum+ tier Members will also receive an annual resort credit that can be used toward an eligible folio spend when staying at select HGV resorts.
As we move into winter and spring 2024, we’ll introduce additional benefits like the Loyalty Search Request and Open Season Credit. The Loyalty Search Request will let eligible Members set up an automated availability search for a resort, region, date or number of nights and accommodations. The number of search allotments will increase in the highest membership tiers.

Members in the Preferred through Centum+ tiers will also receive an Open Season Credit ranging from $250 up to $1,000 annually, based on the Member’s tier, for rental reservations within the Open Season window (within 30 days of check-out).

We’ll share details about features as they’re introduced via your Member website and Club Traveler newsletters. In the meantime, you can find a full list of benefits HERE.

We hope you’re as excited as we are about the enhancements coming to HGV Max. We’re always working on expanding our offerings for HGV Max Members, and we’ll continue to work toward adding new benefits and features as the program grows.

As always, we remain ready to help you create memorable vacation experiences at one of our many properties around the world.

Gordon Gurnick
Senior Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer

 

[ernststarhemberg]

The open season credit is interesting. In theory, assuming nothing else about current open season booking changes, a Premier+ would receive a ~$500 (maybe $750?) annual open season credit. Premier+ already gets 30% off open season booking prices.

I will use an example of a six night (Sat - Fri) stay at Elara for open season booking. At Premier+ my open season rate for a 1BR is $525. Assuming Premier+ gets a $500 open season annual credit, one would in theory get that stay for $25 after the credit. If Premier+ gets a $750 annual credit then the stay is $0 out of pocket with another $225 to spare - probably enough for another ~five nights in a studio after the 30% discount.

 

[HuskerATL]

The open season credit is interesting. In theory, assuming nothing else about current open season booking changes, a Premier+ would receive a ~$500 (maybe $750?) annual open season credit. Premier+ already gets 30% off open season booking prices.

I will use an example of a six night (Sat - Fri) stay at Elara for open season booking. At Premier+ my open season rate for a 1BR is $525. Assuming Premier+ gets a $500 open season annual credit, one would in theory get that stay for $25 after the credit. If Premier+ gets a $750 annual credit then the stay is $0 out of pocket with another $225 to spare - probably enough for another ~five nights in a studio after the 30% discount.

I think you would lose the discount once they implement the credit. I doubt you will get both. I think they used the Elite discount as an interim step until the credit system is in place for Max.

 

[ernststarhemberg]

The Lyft credit I remember seeing in the paperwork but as usual there weren't any details, interested to see that come to fruition. For Elara stays we typically Uber/Lyft between the airport and the resort. As the crow flies it's not a long trip, but after factoring in the airport fee, it can easily run $20-25 each way, assuming no surge pricing.

One thing I discovered about Vegas in the warmer months is that rideshare pricing is highly volatile. You can pull up the app and be quoted a price, but even delaying 30 seconds in approving the pickup can cause the price to increase significantly (even double!).