Owner Update and HGV Max

[Nowaker]

They require $3 /pt for resale and are further stripping mandatory resales from participating in latest program. MF are much more expensive than HGVC for similar quality.

This matches my findings from this fall when I was researching timeshares.

 

[HuskerATL]

That $7000 number is correct. Here is a screenshot of the reference page from my account.View attachment 50833

Here’s another statement from the reference page about resale.

View attachment 50837

Does this mean if you own resale you can’t be part of HGVMax or does it mean the purchase doesn’t qualify?

To me, it doesn’t matter. We won’t buy from the developer nor will we pay $7000 to join. I’m really disappointed in HGV, but not surprised. The desire to soak owners for even more money is too great. There will be plenty of people who will join and they will make their money, but all of the speculation a year ago was correct, this merger is a negative for many owners.

I sent an email to the sales person about the $7,000, since it wasn't mentioned in our presentation, and here is his response.

"It was a pleasure meeting you guys yesterday and I hope you are enjoying your stay. We don't have to pay that $7k Max fee during this grandfathering period. At this point, I don't know who this fee will apply to or what purchase requirements are needed in the future. The Club has not given us any specific information. However, they did mention that resales do not qualify for any future Max options. We anticipate additional information by the 3rd quarter. I hope this helps!"

 

[WORLD TRAVELER]

I spent time reading the the member guide in depth this evening and it appears that Club Members are being divided into 4 Groups - 1. Members (Resale purchase not through HGVC Authorized Retail/Resale Channels) who purchase an ownership interest after the Max Program announcement, 2. HGV Club Legacy Members (Retail or Resale) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max Program Announcement, 3. HGV Club Max Legacy Members (Retail/Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max announcement and who then purchased a Max Program membership through either upgrading their ownership by adding additional weeks or trading in existing owned weeks to purchase additional points or paid the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the $199 per Interval (Week) Activation Fee in lieu of purchasing and upgraded interest through HGVC, 4. HGV Club Max members who purchase an interest (Retail) after announcement of the Max program through HGVC Authorized Retail Channels.

In the current version of the Club Member Manual, the General Member (not HGVC Legacy, HGV Max Legacy, or HGV Max members) is limited in converting the future Club Points to Hilton Honor points on an Every Other Year basis. There is also mention in the Manual that Open Season usage may be restricted but the exact restriction is not specified like the Hilton Honors conversion is. General Members (and those current HGV Club Legacy Members who didn't purchase through an HGVC Authorized Sales Channel) are also not allowed to join the HGV Club Max program as they did not purchase an Interest directly through HGVC.

Those existing Retail Members (or Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who trade in their weeks and upgrade their points or purchase an additional week of points would not have to pay the $7000 Initiation Fee. Those existing Retail Members (or who purchased Resale through HGVC Authorized Channels) who want to join HGVC Max without upgrading or purchasing additional points, would pay the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the Activation Fee of $199 per existing Interval (week) owned.

Moving forward it will be interesting to see what further restrictions are put in place on 'Resale Purchasers' and how that will affect the Resale Market for HGVC Ownership.

 

[HuskerATL]

Thanks World Traveler for the info. So, for us, we are in the category of owning retail and resale. We traded in our resale properties for a new retail property so we will pay the $199 inventory activation fee and the $281 Max club fee but it will only be the difference between our current club fee and this since they are paid. The $7,000 fee is waived. We needed the retail to even have the option for Max but could trade the resales at the original purchase price value toward a new retail property. That transaction put us in Max and gave us Elite.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I spent time reading the the member guide in depth this evening and it appears that Club Members are being divided into 4 Groups - 1. Members (Resale purchase not through HGVC Authorized Retail/Resale Channels) who purchase an ownership interest after the Max Program announcement, 2. HGV Club Legacy Members (Retail or Resale) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max Program Announcement, 3. HGV Club Max Legacy Members (Retail/Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max announcement and who then purchased a Max Program membership through either upgrading their ownership by adding additional weeks or trading in existing owned weeks to purchase additional points or paid the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the $199 per Interval (Week) Activation Fee in lieu of purchasing and upgraded interest through HGVC, 4. HGV Club Max members who purchase an interest (Retail) after announcement of the Max program through HGVC Authorized Retail Channels.

In the current version of the Club Member Manual, the General Member (not HGVC Legacy, HGV Max Legacy, or HGV Max members) is limited in converting the future Club Points to Hilton Honor points on an Every Other Year basis. There is also mention in the Manual that Open Season usage may be restricted but the exact restriction is not specified like the Hilton Honors conversion is. General Members (and those current HGV Club Legacy Members who didn't purchase through an HGVC Authorized Sales Channel) are also not allowed to join the HGV Club Max program as they did not purchase an Interest directly through HGVC.

Those existing Retail Members (or Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who trade in their weeks and upgrade their points or purchase an additional week of points would not have to pay the $7000 Initiation Fee. Those existing Retail Members (or who purchased Resale through HGVC Authorized Channels) who want to join HGVC Max without upgrading or purchasing additional points, would pay the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the Activation Fee of $199 per existing Interval (week) owned.

Moving forward it will be interesting to see what further restrictions are put in place on 'Resale Purchasers' and how that will affect the Resale Market for HGVC Ownership.

Actually there is another category. Owners at an affiliate resort that are not currently HGVC members. What restrictions will be placed on them, in terms of availability, will be interesting.

 

[Almond123]

I own a week at a affiliate and don’t mind going there as it is a floating week. How would they be able to restrict a floating week?

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I own a week at a affiliate and don’t mind going there as it is a floating week. How would they be able to restrict a floating week?

The same way Marriott does for weeks owners. Who gets priority? Does the week owner get "first crack" or does the "trust" get first crack at weeks? If the latter, then the floating week's owner get the leftovers, after the trust get what it wants.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

 

[letsgobobby]

I spent time reading the the member guide in depth this evening and it appears that Club Members are being divided into 4 Groups - 1. Members (Resale purchase not through HGVC Authorized Retail/Resale Channels) who purchase an ownership interest after the Max Program announcement, 2. HGV Club Legacy Members (Retail or Resale) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max Program Announcement, 3. HGV Club Max Legacy Members (Retail/Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max announcement and who then purchased a Max Program membership through either upgrading their ownership by adding additional weeks or trading in existing owned weeks to purchase additional points or paid the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the $199 per Interval (Week) Activation Fee in lieu of purchasing and upgraded interest through HGVC, 4. HGV Club Max members who purchase an interest (Retail) after announcement of the Max program through HGVC Authorized Retail Channels.

In the current version of the Club Member Manual, the General Member (not HGVC Legacy, HGV Max Legacy, or HGV Max members) is limited in converting the future Club Points to Hilton Honor points on an Every Other Year basis. There is also mention in the Manual that Open Season usage may be restricted but the exact restriction is not specified like the Hilton Honors conversion is. General Members (and those current HGV Club Legacy Members who didn't purchase through an HGVC Authorized Sales Channel) are also not allowed to join the HGV Club Max program as they did not purchase an Interest directly through HGVC.

Those existing Retail Members (or Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who trade in their weeks and upgrade their points or purchase an additional week of points would not have to pay the $7000 Initiation Fee. Those existing Retail Members (or who purchased Resale through HGVC Authorized Channels) who want to join HGVC Max without upgrading or purchasing additional points, would pay the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the Activation Fee of $199 per existing Interval (week) owned.

Moving forward it will be interesting to see what further restrictions are put in place on 'Resale Purchasers' and how that will affect the Resale Market for HGVC Ownership.

It sounds like a Legacy member like me will have basically the same program as before. No loss of any real benefits, no access to new DRI resorts. I'm ok with that. Just don't screw up the booking windows too much by giving Max or Elite earlier access to club season. That seriously dilutes the value of my deeds. If that does come to pass and access to my preferred resorts goes down I will definitely dump my trader and just keep our home resort week, where we go every year.

What happens if I buy a bHC property now (after April 4), do I get access to Max as bHC owner? Again, not that I really need it.

 

[NiteMaire]

Just don't screw up the booking windows too much by giving Max or Elite earlier access to club season.

Max is 6 months prior to checkin for both HGVC and DRI owners who join.

 

[brp]

Max is 6 months prior to checkin for both HGVC and DRI owners who join.

So here's a part of this that doesn't make sense to me, and the question has surfaced elsewhere.

Owning HGVC, I have 9 months al all locations (except bHC). Owning DRI gives, I think, something like 13 months. All good.

Now I join max, hypothetically. Would I still get 9 months in all my HGVC locations? Or, if DRI, would I get the 13 there? What if, after joining Max, I buy a DRI property. Do I now get DRI benefits within DRI and still have my 9 months in HGVC? Would all HGVC points (now and future) have 9 months at HGVC; all DRI points have 13 months at DRI. And the only time that 6 months would apply is if I were truly "crossing" points, i.e. I had used all my DRI points and wanted to use some native HGVC points for a DRI location?

Basically, do points carry forward their native program privileges and only resort to 6 months on "crossover?"

I think we don't know definitively. At least I don't.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@brp. Great questions! Plus more DRI buckets to manage beyond the 4 identified within HGV.

Beyond DRI Clubpoints, what happens if you buy a DRI deeded week and you are already enrolled in HGV Max with HGV properties? Can you convert your weeks to points for 6 mo reservations in HGV/combine with HGV? or must you use DEX only to trade?

They better publish an FAQ soon!

 

[brp]

They better publish an FAQ encyclopedia soon!

Fixed that for you

Cheers.

 

[HuskerATL]

So here's a part of this that doesn't make sense to me, and the question has surfaced elsewhere.

Owning HGVC, I have 9 months al all locations (except bHC). Owning DRI gives, I think, something like 13 months. All good.

Now I join max, hypothetically. Would I still get 9 months in all my HGVC locations? Or, if DRI, would I get the 13 there? What if, after joining Max, I buy a DRI property. Do I now get DRI benefits within DRI and still have my 9 months in HGVC? Would all HGVC points (now and future) have 9 months at HGVC; all DRI points have 13 months at DRI. And the only time that 6 months would apply is if I were truly "crossing" points, i.e. I had used all my DRI points and wanted to use some native HGVC points for a DRI location?

Basically, do points carry forward their native program privileges and only resort to 6 months on "crossover?"

I think we don't know definitively. At least I don't.

Cheers.

I sent the salesperson that I have been working with the question about the 9/10 months for clarification and will post his response. When we were going through the Max info in the presentation, he never mentioned the 6 month window and only talked about the 9 month window and then getting the extra month (10 months) when becoming elite.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@HuskerATL Thanks for asking the rep these questions. Did you ever find out if HGV Max inventory is placed in a separate trust from the regular HGV/DRI inventory? i.e. Is this a separate trust inventory system like Marriott Destination Points or Sheraton Flex (i.e. only as good as the people who participate and deposit their ownerships) or is it simply access to existing inventory pools in both HGV and DRI at the respective windows (much better because you have access to all availability in each system).

 

[HuskerATL]

I sent the sales person an email about the 10 month reservation window and his response is below. BTW, the Elite program is being restructured and renamed with more categories. The new name for our category of Elite is Preferred Plus. I don't remember the break points but we have 23,360 points.

"The Loyalty Search Request is due to you being both a Preferred Plus member (Elite)and part of Max. It applies to both Resort types."

 

[HuskerATL]

@HuskerATL Thanks for asking the rep these questions. Did you ever find out if HGV Max inventory is placed in a separate trust from the regular HGV/DRI inventory? i.e. Is this a separate trust inventory system like Marriott Destination Points or Sheraton Flex (i.e. only as good as the people who participate and deposit their ownerships) or is it simply access to existing inventory pools in both HGV and DRI at the respective windows (much better because you have access to all availability in each system).

I will ask but my impression, from what he was telling us, is that it is the latter part of what you wrote. He said there will be a new website and that it will give us access to both inventories. He didn't say a subset of the inventories.

 

[primeg]

How and where do you find a bHC deed?

 

[PigsDad]

I sent the sales person an email about the 10 month reservation window and his response is below. BTW, the Elite program is being restructured and renamed with more categories. The new name for our category of Elite is Preferred Plus. I don't remember the break points but we have 23,360 points.

"The Loyalty Search Request is due to you being both a Preferred Plus member (Elite)and part of Max. It applies to both Resort types."

I saw the new Elite levels that someone posted on FB. They are basically just renaming the existing levels and adding a new top level at that requires 100,000 points. For reference, the existing top level of Elite Premier requires 55,000 points, so that is a huge jump to the new top level.

Kurt

 

[dougp26364]

Huh? MVC invented the 13 month reservation advantage for multiple properties and Elite and they are requiring a $20 - 30k buy in with very expensive DP points. They require $3 /pt for resale and are further stripping mandatory resales from participating in latest program. MF are much more expensive than HGVC for similar quality.

YMMV perhaps if you are already heavily invested and grandfathered it makes sense. For us, we are leaning more toward HGVC bc we are less than 2k old points from elite. Will use HGVC for trading and just use or rent out our Westin week.

Keep in mind we purchased our Marriott deeds many years ago and added DC points using bundle programs that decrease the cost per point drastically. To buy into either program at current rates can be rather expensive. The decision to expand Marriott ownership instead of Hilton was made nearly 20 years ago and before their Destination Club. For us, it has turned out to be the right decision. Hilton is a great product but offers very little in variety of locations and had convoluted rules going from HGVC to bHC and now DRI with the $7,000 buy in and the poor 6 month booking window.

 

[Nowaker]

Repaste from HGVC Owners on FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/HGVCowners/permalink/1023696005231861/ - an email from a salesperson on HGV Max with Elite. Bold is mine on relatively interesting things.


1) One of the obvious benefits is increasing you vacation portfolio from 56 resorts to 150 resorts worldwide. As I mentioned, we are in the process of rebranding and upgrading many of the former Diamond locations to ensure they meet the quality our owners are accustomed to. Rest assured that we will not put our Hilton name on it until it meets or exceed our HGV Resort criteria.

2) "Loyalty Search Requests" As a Centum HGV Max member, you'll be able to request a specific reservation for location, room type and dates and have up to 7 active searches at one time. You can request up to 10 months out. Then at 9 months the owners with the highest status will have first priority for that reservation. Centum owners will be first and Premier Plus will be 2nd.

3) When you decide to go on a cruise, Centum members can now pay for up to 40% of your cruise cost with your points and we will give you .40 cents per point. For example, if a cruise cost was $10,000 for a 7-night cruise. You can use up to 10,000 Club Points at .40 cents a point to take $4,000 off and you would pay the remainder of $6,000. As a Premier Plus owner, you can pay for up to 30% of your cruise at .30 cents per point. My wife and I cruise, and I can tell you that this is HUGE! You're basically getting 30%-40% off by using your points and you don't have to spend that many points!

4) Luxury Homes. Centum and Premier Plus members can access Luxury homes and villas in desirable destinations worldwide. Members can see available homes in real time and use Club Points to secure a reservation online.

5) $700-$1,000 Open Season credit. Every year you'll receive $700 (Premier Plus) or $1,000 (Centum) in credit to reserve HGV Max resorts world-wide.

6) 10% Hilton Honors hotel discount. As a Centum or Premier Plus HGV Max member, you'll have your own portal to reserve a Hilton hotel and you'll always get 10% off the lowest available rate.

7) $250- $350 annual Lyft credit. You'll now receive a $350 credit on the Lyft app every year to take care of your transportation to and from the airport when you travel.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thanks Nowaker. So it sounds like the 10 month priority is only for Centum Elite (100k+) points and Premier plus (???). If that is the case there are not many HGV customers who will reach that level (we will never invest that much - we'd rather buy a wholly owned condo that will appreciate in value and provide tax benefits) so perhaps requalifying for a lower end HGV Elite is not worth it if there is no 10 month priority for that level and little competition.

Do the HGV new points values go 1:1 with Diamond club points? if so it won't go far on Diamond with properties at the 15,000 - 21,500 range for a week in Hawaii.

 

[Nowaker]

So it sounds like the 10 month priority is only for Centum Elite (100k+) points and Premier plus (???)

Yeah, and it's not really a 10 month priority. Rather, it's a 10 month out search request, with an automatic booking happening at 9 months out, if one is available.

This is kinda clever on their part. They're not changing any rules for existing owners, technically! We walkers do book right at midnight 9 months out too, right?! Well, now software on HGVC side will do it for highest HGV Maxers too - but worse. We walkers book an earlier date and walk it forward. Their system will book a select date period only - but if we continue to walk a rez one night at a time before our sought-after period, we still get what we want, ahead of HGV Max with high elite tiers.

In other words, Loyalty Search Requests sounds like a 10 months priority, and can be used as a selling point for retail deeds, but in practise, is probably worthless. Lol.

 

[letsgobobby]

Yeah, and it's not really a 10 month priority. Rather, it's a 10 month out search request, with an automatic booking happening at 9 months out, if one is available.

This is kinda clever on their part. They're not changing any rules for existing owners, technically! We walkers do book right at midnight 9 months out too, right?! Well, now software on HGVC side will do it for highest HGV Maxers too - but worse. We walkers book an earlier date and walk it forward. Their system will book a select date period only - but if we continue to walk a rez one night at a time before our sought-after period, we still get what we want, ahead of HGV Max with high elite tiers.

In other words, Loyalty Search Requests sounds like a 10 months priority, and can be used as a selling point for retail deeds, but in practise, is probably worthless. Lol.

I'm less sanguine. Those automatic ressies will fill immediately when the clock strikes midnight. Us manual bookers will be disadvantaged.

But it also seems true, depending on the final details, that the number of eligible elites will be quite small, so the real impact should be minimal.

 

[Nowaker]

Those automatic ressies will fill immediately when the clock strikes midnight. Us manual bookers will be disadvantaged.

That puts you, a manual clicker, at a disadvantage only if you want to book your target booking, e.g. 12/24-31 the moment when the last day of your booking becomes bookable (within booking period of 274 days, or whatever the number is). You normally don't do that if you want a highly contested date. At the very minimum, you will book 12/24-27 when 12/27 releases, then add days. Or better yet, you will book 12/15-18, and then walk it forward. Therefore, we are not affected at all, because we do not book 12/24-31 when 12/31 becomes bookable. We book earlier, then walk it. No change for us. No advantage for them.

 

[HuskerATL]

A bit more info about what the Preferred+ and Max members get.