Open Season Rates no longer a good deal!!

[sluggohill]

I agree that the value of HGVC is good. However, when you buy into a system with a certain benefits package, just as when you take a job with a certain benefits package and management changes the rules you feel cheated. From what I read Hilton is giving some lame excuses for what they are doing that from a customer perspective doesn't cut it. The higher demand resorts and seasons availability during open season just as the higher demand club resorts and seasons availability is reserved quickly. The open season lower demand resorts and lower demand seasons, at times, remain unreserved. That is a fact of the desirability of location just as in real estate values. However, HGVC management raising the open season rates for those highly desired locations is taking away a benefit that members had. They need to reconsider giving some benefit to members for taking away this benefit.

I'm not arguing that owners should be happy - I agree with most of your points. This is a devaluation of a benefit - the 2014 rates were a great deal given the overall quality of the rooms.

I lodged a complaint with Hilton and they responded that the O/S rates are being reset to give a % discount off the market rate for each property. Hilton has clearly looked at rates and decided they can still give a decent discount yet extract more money from HGVC owners.

An organized protest might be effective but I suspect it won't happen because most owners aren't as tuned into all aspects of the value of membership as the people on this board are. They didn't devalue the primary benefit of membership - the point value in the system - it is a change of an ancillary benefit that not all people use.

The only other choice is to evaluate whether the program is worth staying in or sell it off because the value proposition isn't worth it. In my opinion, the value is still pretty good but less so than before because of the change in O/S rates.

I get why people are upset - something bought is now less valuable.

Do I feel cheated? No because the T&C clearly tell you they can do this.

 

[GTLINZ]

They started increasing the open season rates last year - and the latest changes appear to be over the top. It is not much of a benefit anymore, except possibly in off season. It appears that they are making sure they milk every dollar out of peak times. This change reminds me of what they did to our HH points - change to get more when they can get it.

I also have noticed in the last year it is much harder to get availability than it was for me in the past.

As for this helping the MFs, I suspect it does not. I suspect Corporate has a way of funneling the money back to themselves.

I actually was going to get another HGVC unit, but the open season and HH changes last year persuaded me otherwise.

 

[jestme]

As for this helping the MFs, I suspect it does not. I suspect Corporate has a way of funneling the money back to themselves.

I asked last year where the revenue went for Open Season rates. They confirmed the money went directly to HGVC, and NOT to the resort it was spent on. So, the HOA at that resort has additional costs for maid service, laundry, check in desk, heating, cooling, etc. but does not get a dime of the "Open Season" money to offset those costs. I confirmed that with the Statement of Income And Expenses from my resort. There are only two revenue lines. MF's, and interest on the reserve for future expenses.
On the good side, I own in Hawaii, where the "resort is sold out and demand is high", and I expect we will get less of those additional costs for cleaning etc. because of much less use of Open Season at these new ridiculous rates. I fully expect MF's to drop because of that..... :rofl:

 

[Tamaradarann]

Less Open Season Booking, but not less occupancy

I asked last year where the revenue went for Open Season rates. They confirmed the money went directly to HGVC, and NOT to the resort it was spent on. So, the HOA at that resort has additional costs for maid service, laundry, check in desk, heating, cooling, etc. but does not get a dime of the "Open Season" money to offset those costs. I confirmed that with the Statement of Income And Expenses from my resort. There are only two revenue lines. MF's, and interest on the reserve for future expenses.
On the good side, I own in Hawaii, where the "resort is sold out and demand is high", and I expect we will get less of those additional costs for cleaning etc. because of much less use of Open Season at these new ridiculous rates. I fully expect MF's to drop because of that..... :rofl:

I agree with you that because of the high open season rates there will be less utilization of open season booking. However, I don't expect that Hilton will let those rooms stay vacant so that there will be less occupancy. They will rent those units to the general public. Hilton is a big hospitality company. They advertise all over all the time. They have thousands of Hotels and will fill the Hawaii units, which is the main area which they have raised Open Season Rates, with paying customers without regard to HGVC ownership. They are looking to fill their beds with as high a paying customer that they can and they don't regard HGVC owner/members anymore favorably than someone off the street. Your maintenance fees will continue to go up the same percentage that it would have.

 

[GTLINZ]

I asked last year where the revenue went for Open Season rates. They confirmed the money went directly to HGVC, and NOT to the resort it was spent on. So, the HOA at that resort has additional costs for maid service, laundry, check in desk, heating, cooling, etc. but does not get a dime of the "Open Season" money to offset those costs. I confirmed that with the Statement of Income And Expenses from my resort. There are only two revenue lines. MF's, and interest on the reserve for future expenses.

If that is true, it is sad. That would just drive up the costs for the owners...

 

[jestme]

If that is true, it is sad. That would just drive up the costs for the owners...

Actually, it won't. As I have stated a number of times, the main reason I bought, was Open Season rates as driven in to me again and again during their sales pitch, and I am not alone. I bought in Hawaii because of that.
As that "ancillary benefit" is now totally useless in Hawaii, I will respond as I usually do when respect for me as a customer with ANY company is ignored, or taken for granted. I will respond with my wallet.
I used to spend a BUNCH of money while on vacation at the HHV in Hawaii at their restaurants and bars. They can certainly look that up if they want to. The waiters and waitresses there know me by fist name and remember my, and my wife's drink when I arrive again 11 months later. That undocumented "ancillary benefit" to Hilton has been available to them over the past 10 years, and is certainly at my independent discretion to change. Their cavalier attitude to holding us HGVC owners hostage to the new Hawaii "Open Season" rates, simply to increase profits, has me far more than annoyed. As HGVC owners, we are, by far, the largest corporate customer Blackstone and Hilton have. If they want to take us for granted, reduce the value of our membership, increase our room costs by more than 300% in 13 months,far more than they would dare to try in the hotel open market, (or in any other industry, for any other product, anywhere on the planet for that matter) they will soon learn a long known business lesson. "If you lose the customers you already have, you had better have an excellent business plan to get all new ones, or you won't have any at all." I seriously doubt they have. I no longer think their management is that intelligent.
I'm certain I won't be the only one to penalize them by spending less there. Other members will have to stay a shorter period of time, or have to spend food and drink money elsewhere to stay within their vacation budgets while they are there.
As a business person, this is very confusing to me. As the HHV has always been a "high demand" location, there has been a very limited Open Season rooms available there forever. These increased rates cannot be much of a revenue generator, as the number of available "room nights" cannot be generating that much increased revenue to justify the PR and sales losses. In fact, at the new rates, it may be a net revenue loss to them, as people simply wont book at those prices. I've noticed the Open Season rooms available online for the HHV are all still there, none seem to be gobbled up as they would have been in the past.
HGVC. Financially, is this really worth the loss of membership respect for HVC, and loss of sales pitch potential worldwide?

 

[Tamaradarann]

New Open Season Rates are Variable

Actually, it won't. As I have stated a number of times, the main reason I bought, was Open Season rates as driven in to me again and again during their sales pitch, and I am not alone. I bought in Hawaii because of that.
As that "ancillary benefit" is now totally useless in Hawaii, I will respond as I usually do when respect for me as a customer with ANY company is ignored, or taken for granted. I will respond with my wallet.
I used to spend a BUNCH of money while on vacation at the HHV in Hawaii at their restaurants and bars. They can certainly look that up if they want to. The waiters and waitresses there know me by fist name and remember my, and my wife's drink when I arrive again 11 months later. That undocumented "ancillary benefit" to Hilton has been available to them over the past 10 years, and is certainly at my independent discretion to change. Their cavalier attitude to holding us HGVC owners hostage to the new Hawaii "Open Season" rates, simply to increase profits, has me far more than annoyed. As HGVC owners, we are, by far, the largest corporate customer Blackstone and Hilton have. If they want to take us for granted, reduce the value of our membership, increase our room costs by more than 300% in 13 months,far more than they would dare to try in the hotel open market, (or in any other industry, for any other product, anywhere on the planet for that matter) they will soon learn a long known business lesson. "If you lose the customers you already have, you had better have an excellent business plan to get all new ones, or you won't have any at all." I seriously doubt they have. I no longer think their management is that intelligent.
I'm certain I won't be the only one to penalize them by spending less there. Other members will have to stay a shorter period of time, or have to spend food and drink money elsewhere to stay within their vacation budgets while they are there.
As a business person, this is very confusing to me. As the HHV has always been a "high demand" location, there has been a very limited Open Season rooms available there forever. These increased rates cannot be much of a revenue generator, as the number of available "room nights" cannot be generating that much increased revenue to justify the PR and sales losses. In fact, at the new rates, it may be a net revenue loss to them, as people simply wont book at those prices. I've noticed the Open Season rooms available online for the HHV are all still there, none seem to be gobbled up as they would have been in the past.
HGVC. Financially, is this really worth the loss of membership respect for HVC, and loss of sales pitch potential worldwide?

While the new open season rates give the same ranges for all the resorts it seems that with about 10 days of January visable at this time only the Hawaiian resorts have been raised. The other resorts, at least in early January, are at the bottom of the range which is the old rates. The rates at the Hawaiian resorts have all been raised but not the same amount. It seems that Oahu has been raised to the max, while the Waikoloa resorts have been raised somewhere between Oahu and the rest of the HGVC resorts. I, like many of the HGVC owners, value the Hawaiian resorts more than other resorts so the raise does effect my vacation interests more than if other resorts were raised. My understanding is that the open season rates will be raised at other HGVC resorts at times when they feel that the demand is great so availability is slim, i.e. Orlando when the kids are out of school in Orlando.

From an owner perspective this is not as bad as their raising all the resorts to the max all the time, however, it does reduce our owner benefits significantly.

 

[chriskre]

I just posted a comment on their FB page and they redirected me to the thread that apparently wasn't deleted after all.
This is what is on there so far.

I guess they don't care what we think.
For these new prices I'd much rather stay at a Marriott with an AC from II.
Glad I only own a biennial.

I'll still use it as intended initially for Marco island, but they won't be seeing me much in Orlando anymore and I go there sometimes every month.
It was nice while it lasted but slumming it at Marriott won't be so bad.



Nina Jo-Ring‎Hilton Grand Vacations
December 6 at 11:56am · Honolulu, HI ·
Hello! I posted something last night and it is strangely gone. I asked why the Open Season rates are up 100%. I tried for 2 nights in a 2 bedroom Premier and it was over $900 Jan.1-3, 2015!

Like · · Share
2 people like this.

Hilton Grand Vacations Let us find out for you! Stay tuned.
Like · Reply · December 6 at 7:24pm

Phyllis Burt Yes, please let us know why HGVC has decided to significantly increase Open Season rates. Open Season Rates was suppose to be an owner benefit.

FOR EXAMPLE...See More
Phyllis Burt's photo.
Like · Reply · December 7 at 11:40pm

Eb Brodie Yes, please justify the ridiculous increases in open season rates, other than having to drive up revenues due to the recent Hilton IPO.
Like · Reply · December 8 at 2:03am

Mark Hill I agree. To all here, the HGVC twitter handle is @HiltonGrandVac. I suggest you tweet this at them.
Like · Reply · December 8 at 7:47am

Hilton Grand Vacations We thank you for your communication, and trust that the following update serves to bring further clarity to this topic:

As the vacation ownership inventory at our properties reaches a sold out status, the Open Season availability for units respectively diminishes. Open Season Rental rates remain flexible based on location, season, day of the week and demand. Beginning in 2015, some nightly rates remain similar to those of the previous year, and some increased rates are based on the location, season or day of the week that are historically in higher demand by our Club Members.

The intention of this update was to offer these accommodations during the 30 day booking window at a percentage-off of what can be found on Hilton.com, which primarily offers the inventory that HGV Owners actually give back to the Club in exchange for other benefits or Partner Perks such as cruises, RV rentals, houseboats, etc. Previous rates were not reflective of the specific marketplace: for example, a 1-bedroom in Orlando does not equate to the same as a 1-bedroom in Honolulu. These recent updates to the Open Season rates chart remedy such discrepancies.

We will continue to monitor the markets in which we operate HGV resorts, and offer seasonally adjusted Open Season rates in an effort to provide the most desirable offers to our Owners. While we understand this recent change may initially be frustrating, we apologize that our notification did not reach you before the Open Season window opened for January 1.
Like · Reply · December 8 at 4:15pm

Eb Brodie What a crock!! It's about the $$$ pure and simple.

Just looked up the changes...here is an example

HGVC Hawaii
3 nights, Sat Dec 27- Tue Dec 30
Bay Club $460
Kohala Suites $460
Kings Land $535

4 nights, Sat Dec 27- Wed Dec 31
Bay Club $605
Kohala Suites $605
Kings Land $705
==============

3 nights, Sat Jan 3 - Tue Jan 6
Bay Club $800
Kohala Suites $N/A
Kings Land $900

4 nights, Sat Jan 3 - Wed Jan 7
Bay Club $1,060
Kohala Suites $N/A
Kings Land $1,180

This is completely unacceptable and out right theft!
Like · Reply · 1 · December 11 at 2:25am

 

[alwysonvac]

While the new open season rates give the same ranges for all the resorts it seems that with about 10 days of January visable at this time only the Hawaiian resorts have been raised. The other resorts, at least in early January, are at the bottom of the range which is the old rates. The rates at the Hawaiian resorts have all been raised but not the same amount. It seems that Oahu has been raised to the max, while the Waikoloa resorts have been raised somewhere between Oahu and the rest of the HGVC resorts. I, like many of the HGVC owners, value the Hawaiian resorts more than other resorts so the raise does effect my vacation interests more than if other resorts were raised. My understanding is that the open season rates will be raised at other HGVC resorts at times when they feel that the demand is great so availability is slim, i.e. Orlando when the kids are out of school in Orlando.

From an owner perspective this is not as bad as their raising all the resorts to the max all the time, however, it does reduce our owner benefits significantly.

Keep up the fight !!
Don't be deceived by this initial rollout. HGVC normally starts off slow then they'll steadily start to increase prices.

OPEN SEASON CHANGES OVER THE YEARS
- Changed Open Season to Cash only (2 night minimum)
- Changed Open Season to accommodate increases for weekends vs weekdays
- Changed Open Season to accommodate increases for the various seasons (first they only had Platinum broken out and Silver/Gold together - see 2012 chart below)
- Now Changed Open Season to accommodate increase for ranges within season and by resort

HERE'S THE 2012 CHART

They are based on room size, category and season. Here is the current nightly rate chart for 2012:

Kurt

 

[jestme]

Sounds like at any time you would want to go, they will raise the prices. Isn't that what the timeshare seasons were already there for? Now, they will probably raise rates for events as well, (like Daytona 500, CES in Vegas, Honolulu marathon, etc.)
I've noticed almost all of the January Oahu inventory is still there. No one seems to be using any days that I've seen. I think they may have way overreached with pricing this time.
I've also received HHV hotel specials via email this week, starting at $179. Including a $50 per stay voucher for restaurants and bars, with an hour earlier check in, an hour later check in, maid service daily, and HHonors points, not only for the room, but for meals and drinks as well. Maybe the hotel side of the business in Oahu has better management than HGVC and they understand we may be looking for another option. With my current feelings about Hilton, I will probably look elsewhere anyhow.

 

[PigsDad]

While the new open season rates give the same ranges for all the resorts it seems that with about 10 days of January visable at this time only the Hawaiian resorts have been raised.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that is true. I just checked for a std 2BR Mon/Tue (2 night) at Valdoro in January, the price came up at $502. Not a holiday week or anything. The range per night for a std 2BR during Plat season is $145-$290, so it looks like they are pricing that toward the top end of the range.

Kurt

 

[WORLD TRAVELER]

Equity Management Ownership of Hilton

These steep rate increases are what to expect when Hilton is no longer owned by the Hilton family but instead stockholders and an equity management company mainly concerned with making as much money as possible for the stockholders regardless how it affects timeshare owners and HHonors members on the hotel side.

 

[PigsDad]

These steep rate increases are what to expect when Hilton is no longer owned by the Hilton family but instead stockholders and an equity management company mainly concerned with making as much money as possible for the stockholders regardless how it affects timeshare owners and HHonors members on the hotel side.

HGVC hasn't been owned by the Hilton family for years, if ever.

Kurt

 

[Tamaradarann]

Good Find, Valdoro in January high open season $ also

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that is true. I just checked for a std 2BR Mon/Tue (2 night) at Valdoro in January, the price came up at $502. Not a holiday week or anything. The range per night for a std 2BR during Plat season is $145-$290, so it looks like they are pricing that toward the top end of the range.

Kurt

Wow, that is a good find. I didn't look at that resort since I don't have any interest in going there, particularly in January. That makes me feel better to know that they are at least raising some of the prices on accommodations that I don't want.

 

[Tamaradarann]

If Open Season isn't booked, they will sell to public

Sounds like at any time you would want to go, they will raise the prices. Isn't that what the timeshare seasons were already there for? Now, they will probably raise rates for events as well, (like Daytona 500, CES in Vegas, Honolulu marathon, etc.)
I've noticed almost all of the January Oahu inventory is still there. No one seems to be using any days that I've seen. I think they may have way overreached with pricing this time.
I've also received HHV hotel specials via email this week, starting at $179. Including a $50 per stay voucher for restaurants and bars, with an hour earlier check in, an hour later check in, maid service daily, and HHonors points, not only for the room, but for meals and drinks as well. Maybe the hotel side of the business in Oahu has better management than HGVC and they understand we may be looking for another option. With my current feelings about Hilton, I will probably look elsewhere anyhow.

If Open Season nights are not booked Hilton will sell the nights to the general public at rates a little higher than open season rates.

 

[Talent312]

HGVC hasn't been owned by the Hilton family for years, if ever.

There was a bit of an overlap... HGVC was founded in 1992.
Baron Hilton retired as CEO in February 1996.
Blackstone paid him ~$1 billion for his 20+ million shares in 2007.

 

[buzglyd]

From a business perspective, it's easy to see why HGVC did this.

In the past, you could get a week during Open Season in many cases for less than the maintenance fee (especially in Hawaii).

This move makes points more valuable than cash. HGVC sells points. Owners will need more points to reserve the high end units.

I own 7000 points at WBR purchased resale. The HGVC makes nothing on that deal. I've never stayed at WBR. I've used cash to stay at KL in the higher point premier units.

I'm not thrilled about this either but I can understand the move. Perhaps the bright side is it will make our weeks more valuable in the resale market with points now becoming more valuable than cash.

 

[Jason245]

From a business perspective, it's easy to see why HGVC did this.

In the past, you could get a week during Open Season in many cases for less than the maintenance fee (especially in Hawaii).

This move makes points more valuable than cash. HGVC sells points. Owners will need more points to reserve the high end units.

I own 7000 points at WBR purchased resale. The HGVC makes nothing on that deal. I've never stayed at WBR. I've used cash to stay at KL in the higher point premier units.

I'm not thrilled about this either but I can understand the move. Perhaps the bright side is it will make our weeks more valuable in the resale market with points now becoming more valuable than cash.

For someone who bought retail, open season is still a great deal. For resale buyers, not as much of a deal depending on your planned frequency of use..

 

[PigsDad]

For someone who bought retail, open season is still a great deal. For resale buyers, not as much of a deal depending on your planned frequency of use..

How does the amount you paid for the timeshare in the first place make one bit of difference in determining if Open Season is a deal or not? Retail and resale buyers have the exact same access to Open Season. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, IMO.

Kurt

 

[Jason245]

How does the amount you paid for the timeshare in the first place make one bit of difference in determining if Open Season is a deal or not? Retail and resale buyers have the exact same access to Open Season. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, IMO.

Kurt

Well.. If you are a retail buyer who will only buy retail, it might still make financial sense to spend $170 a night for a one bedroom for an extra 7 nights a year ($1190) then spending ~$25k + $800 a year in maintenance fees for 3500 points. (Rental is ~$400/year more than MF, but it would take over 60 years of doing this for breakeven)

A resale buyer would probably get that 3500 points package for $1 and would be in a loss position year number 1 of using open season vs buying more points.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

From a business perspective, it's easy to see why HGVC did this.

This move makes points more valuable than cash. HGVC sells points. Owners will need more points to reserve the high end units.

I'm not thrilled about this either but I can understand the move. Perhaps the bright side is it will make our weeks more valuable in the resale market with points now becoming more valuable than cash.

I think that may be the exact effect they are going for. Between the changes to open season, and new higher point requirements for the fancier rooms, the typical 5000 point package will only go so far.

This is a loss of benefits, but personally it will only have a limited impact, as the short booking window was challenging for me...

 

[Blues]

I'm not thrilled about this either but I can understand the move. Perhaps the bright side is it will make our weeks more valuable in the resale market with points now becoming more valuable than cash.

This makes no sense to me. We've had an ownership benefit removed - for the 2nd time, counting HHonors. How can removing a benefit possibly result in a higher market value?

-Bob

 

[presley]

This makes no sense to me. We've had an ownership benefit removed - for the 2nd time, counting HHonors. How can removing a benefit possibly result in a higher market value?

-Bob

It makes sense from a business perspective. HGVC only cares about sales. Once you buy, they need you to keep buying. They do not care if you already bought. That doesn't help them at all.

 

[buzglyd]

Two maintenance fees (and the points that come with it) are now cheaper than one maintenance fee and an Open Season vacation.

Except for Oahu, the 30 day window worked fine for me. I booked the 2br at Kingsland in October for my wedding knowing that there would be plenty of space available.

I used a ton of Open Season in 2013 and 2014. I probably won't going forward. To me, it was a great way to try out a property I hadn't been to before without committing my points.

 

[Jason245]

Two maintenance fees (and the points that come with it) are now cheaper than one maintenance fee and an Open Season vacation.

Except for Oahu, the 30 day window worked fine for me. I booked the 2br at Kingsland in October for my wedding knowing that there would be plenty of space available.

I used a ton of Open Season in 2013 and 2014. I probably won't going forward. To me, it was a great way to try out a property I hadn't been to before without committing my points.

That depends on the price you pay for the points.