NO Access to trusts pool by enrolled owners (Marriott's response - post #447)

[windje2000]

This is a very interesting trend.

The skim threads were arguments between the owners who were against enrolling and the owners who were for enrolling and the owners on the fence.

This thread it's arguments mostly between the owners who had made up their minds to enroll or already jumped on the bandwagon.

It seems that we all have different breaking points. For some it's skim, for some it's no access to trust pool... and some, who shall remain nameless, will defend Marriott no matter what can of worms opens up.

I'm still pretty speechless and somewhat skeptical about this, but it's a good read. For what it's worth I thought FredM had the best explanation earlier in the day in the other thread.

His post is excellent, but it would seem Fredm may be laboring under the same disputed assumption as the rest of us when he states:

Want the added flexibility and potential fee savings of the new exchange? $695, without surrendering existing functionality.

Fee savings - yes at least in year 1

Flexibility? That 1,000 points won't buy much as a stand alone points interest.

 

[DanCali]

Yep, Fred covered it all without lapsing into hyperbole, attributing anything sinister to Marriott, or implying insults against other TUGgers. It's too bad we can't all speak so plainly or politely.

More importantly, he gave a reasonable explanation why it could indeed be true. My first reaction was "what the _ _ _ _?" but when I read his post it clicked...

 

[hotcoffee]

An owner who bought a floating week deed at MOC Lahaina Tower was assured that he or she would have the right to use that deeded interest to reserve a week out of the total amount of weeks represented by the 99 units times 52 weeks (5,148 weeks). [putting aside, for this discussion, the 13 month / 12 month priority].

If the original deed owners want to remain in the old system, do they still have the right to reserve from the 5,148 weeks they were promised? Or is Marriott placing some of those weeks out of the reach of those who purchased deeded units?

If Marriott is removing some of the available inventory from the original program, then every deed owner is getting shafted.

This sounds more and more like a ponzi scheme.

Those reserving via points can only access the points inventory with only one exception. Those who reserve their week can only access the legacy weeks inventory. The only exception is when a person using points has requested a week at a resort that is unavailable in the points inventory. The Club Manager will then check for the week in II, and if it is there, the Club Manager will provide II with a week that satisfies a need in II.

 

[GregT]

Those reserving via points can only access the points inventory with only one exception. Those who reserve their week can only access the legacy weeks inventory. The only exception is when a person using points has requested a week at a resort that is unavailable in the points inventory. The Club Manager will then check for the week in II, and if it is there, the Club Manager will provide II with a week that satisfies a need in II.

Hotcoffee,

This would certainly make sense, and I hope practice bears this out. It's amazing how much distrust there is of Marriott over this program.

Thanks for info, hopefully official confirmation will be forthcoming.

Best to all,

Greg

 

[MRMarriott]

One Other Idea

One way I try to sort out the true information from the false information is the "commission" test.

That is, if a paid commission executive told me this, would it induce me to buy more points?

It sounds like a sales tactic - the executive creates fear in the owner that if they don't buy points, they won't have access to this large pool of inventory, but if they buy just 1,000, the floodgates open!

I don't think this is the case and won't be positive one way or the other until I see written documentation. I don't see it in my enrollment packet. Does anyone have more proof than the words or a rep?

 

[CMF]

Please excuse the typos.

Welcome!
Please wait while we contact the next available agent...
You are now speaking with Don P.!
Don P.: Hi! My name is Don P.. How may I help you?
Charles : Hello. I need some clarification on the new points system.
Don P.: Ok
Charles : The question pertains to inventory. Do legacy owners that convert their weeks to points have access to the same inventory as trust owners? Or is the inventory in two separate buckets?
Charles : In other words, do legacy owners only have access to inventory deposited by other legacy owners?
Don P.: I am not familiar with the term legacy owners. Is that referring to current weeks owner that enroll in the points program?
Charles : Correct.
Don P.: If an owner uses point to make a reservation, then this inventory would come out of the enrolled owner's inventory bucket.
Charles : I see. What about trust owners (folks that did not enroll a week and just purchased points) is there inventory limited as well?
Don P.: Their inventory would come from the points owners bucket
Charles : And, what about, for lack of a better term, blended owners? enrolled week owners that purchased points. How is their point account managed?
Don P.: They would have access to both buckets.
Charles : I don't know how to phrase this: individually or jointly? Do you get what I'm trying to explain?
Don P.: Yes, they have access to search for inventory through both buckets, if that is what you are referring to
Charles : So there would be one large bucket instead of two smaller buckets to choose from. Is there a simple way to explain why Marriott decided to put weeks in two buckets?
Don P.: I am not sure what you mean exactly.
Charles : I went to a presentation at OceanWatch and I was not made aware that there were different types of inventories. I am wondering why it is done this way.
Charles : In other words, why aren't points just points.
Don P.: I am not sure why it is done the way it is, it might be due to legal stipulations. I wish I could tell you why they have these differences in inventories.
Charles : OK. Thanks Don. You helped me better understand the system and now know that I need to buy the 1000 point minimum when I enrolled my weeks. I purchased my weeks externally and close on them before the 20th. Are there any deadlines that I should be aware of?
Don P.: I believe that the 800 bonus points have a deadline, which I believe are up until the end of this year, but let me check into that and get back to you on that.

 

[DanCali]

One way I try to sort out the true information from the false information is the "commission" test.

That is, if a paid commission executive told me this, would it induce me to buy more points?

It sounds like a sales tactic - the executive creates fear in the owner that if they don't buy points, they won't have access to this large pool of inventory, but if they buy just 1,000, the floodgates open!

I don't think this is the case and won't be positive one way or the other until I see written documentation. I don't see it in my enrollment packet. Does anyone have more proof than the words or a rep?

This is not the type of fear that would induce buying or enrolling.

The type of fear that induces and enrolling and possibly buying points is: "II inventory will dry up", "80% of our owners already signed up", "get an extra 1300 bonus points if you buy 1000 points, but the offer expires today" etc.

This is the type of fear that would cause you to rescind your enrollment, as has been evidenced by puckmanfl's actions.

 

[dbbk94404]

I just got off the phone with Marriott. If you convert your Legacy weeks for DP points, you will only have access to Legacy inventory. If you buy new points youwill only have access to trust inventory. You will not be able to combine them. So this will make it harder for you to book a vacation.

I believe this not to be true. For a legacy owner that buys into the min. points (1000) purchase for $9,200, you can combined your points and be treated as a trust owner. It's called "reloading" as I've been told. I don't know if this applies to legacy owners who bought resale. So if your week is worth 3000 points EY and you bought the 1000 points EY, you would have 4000 points to exchange with as a Trust member EY. I guess another way of Marriott trying to improve the economy.

 

[JimIg23]

Welcome!
Please wait while we contact the next available agent...
You are now speaking with Don P.!
Don P.: Hi! My name is Don P.. How may I help you?
Charles : Hello. I need some clarification on the new points system.
Don P.: Ok
Charles : The question pertains to inventory. Do legacy owners that convert their weeks to points have access to the same inventory as trust owners? Or is the inventory in two separate buckets?
Charles : In other words, do legacy owners only have access to inventory deposited by other legacy owners?
Don P.: I am not familiar with the term legacy owners. Is that referring to current weeks owner that enroll in the points program?
Charles : Correct.
Don P.: If an owner uses point to make a reservation, then this inventory would come out of the enrolled owner's inventory bucket.
Charles : I see. What about trust owners (folks that did not enroll a week and just purchased points) is there inventory limited as well?
Don P.: Their inventory would come from the points owners bucket
Charles : And, what about, for lack of a better term, blended owners? enrolled week owners that purchased points. How is their point account managed?
Don P.: They would have access to both buckets.
Charles : I don't know how to phrase this: individually or jointly? Do you get what I'm trying to explain?
Don P.: Yes, they have access to search for inventory through both buckets, if that is what you are referring to
Charles : So there would be one large bucket instead of two smaller buckets to choose from. Is there a simple way to explain why Marriott decided to put weeks in two buckets?
Don P.: I am not sure what you mean exactly.
Charles : I went to a presentation at OceanWatch and I was not made aware that there were different types of inventories. I am wondering why it is done this way.
Charles : In other words, why aren't points just points.
Don P.: I am not sure why it is done the way it is, it might be due to legal stipulations. I wish I could tell you why they have these differences in inventories.
Charles : OK. Thanks Don. You helped me better understand the system and now know that I need to buy the 1000 point minimum when I enrolled my weeks. I purchased my weeks externally and close on them before the 20th. Are there any deadlines that I should be aware of?
Don P.: I believe that the 800 bonus points have a deadline, which I believe are up until the end of this year, but let me check into that and get back to you on that.

this is really important. I am going to call and ask tomorrow also. It almost seems silly that Marriott would create all these different "buckets" They are going to have weeks, bucket 1, bucket 2, II requests..... They are going to have raise all their fees 10x to manage all this.....

 

[DanCali]

They are going to have raise all their fees 10x to manage all this.....

Maybe that's why they have the skim factor

 

[JimIg23]

on the phone now with them, they are asking a supervisor......

 

[GregT]

on the phone now with them, they are asking a supervisor......

Can you ask them where my 13.3% went? Maybe it's in the Trust inventory?

Just kidding....

 

[DanCali]

Can you ask them where my 13.3% went? Maybe it's in the Trust inventory?

Just kidding....

13.3% makes it sound a lot better than the 1400 points or so it actually is in your case...

 

[JimIg23]

on the phone now with them, they are asking a supervisor......

She said this 2 bucket thing was not right, all points in the inventory (exchange members and deeds owned by Marriott) are all together and that exchange members have access to all it. I asked her to ask a supervisor, they said the same thing.

I may email MVC also....... Way too many on line chats with Marriott saying differently.

DAVE, if you are reading this, this would be a great question for you knowledgable sources....

 

[hotcoffee]

She said this 2 bucket thing was not right, all points in the inventory (exchange members and deeds owned by Marriott) are all together and that exchange members have access to all it. I asked her to ask a supervisor, they said the same thing.

I may email MVC also....... Way too many on line chats with Marriott saying differently.

DAVE, if you are reading this, this would be a great question for you knowledgable sources....

Maybe some of the confusion comes in because of the definition of what the "buckets" consist of. There are indeed two buckets. But, one bucket contains only weeks inventory. This bucket cannot be touched by people using points (except when exchanged through II). The other bucket contains the points inventory. This bucket cannot be touched by people using weeks (except when a points II exchange results in a trade out of the points inventory).

 

[AMJ]

I spoke with a Marriott Points Specialist today and was told the 2 bucket answer. He stated that legacy owners converting their weeks to destination points can not access the trust pool.

 

[CMF]

I think this is evidence of a bad training program. All the Marriott reps are telling the truth as they know it.

Charles

 

[JimIg23]

Robin C.: Hi! My name is Robin C.. How may I help you?
Jim : Good evening. I have a question. I was told by Marriott that when a deeded weeks owner joins the points system as an exchange member, they have access to all of the point inventory, both other exchange members points and any inventory owned by Marriott, including new resorts in the future. I have heard now this may not true. I have heard that there are two seperate points inventories, one for exchange owners and one for points owners. Do exchange members have accesss to all point inventories, including those points owned by Marriott in the trust or do exchange members only have access to points given to the system by exchange members? Thanks.
Robin C.: One moment.
Jim : ok, thanks
Robin C.: Yes there are 2 inventories. The Trust Owner has access to the Trust,accounts the Weeks have access to the weeks account, BUT if those inventories are not being used then the resort puts them up for usage,
Jim : when you say "weeks" does that means the "points" that exchange members convert to points to use. For example, as an exchange member, if I convert to points and try to use the points, I cannot have access to Marriott owned inventory in the points trust? Could I only use points for inventories deposited by other exchange members?
Robin C.: Excuse me, the weeks owners would be considered the Enrolled owners.

????

 

[tiel]

Welcome!
Please wait while we contact the next available agent...
You are now speaking with Don P.!
Don P.: Hi! My name is Don P.. How may I help you?
Charles : Hello. I need some clarification on the new points system.
Don P.: Ok
Charles : The question pertains to inventory. Do legacy owners that convert their weeks to points have access to the same inventory as trust owners? Or is the inventory in two separate buckets?
Charles : In other words, do legacy owners only have access to inventory deposited by other legacy owners?
Don P.: I am not familiar with the term legacy owners. Is that referring to current weeks owner that enroll in the points program?
Charles : Correct.
Don P.: If an owner uses point to make a reservation, then this inventory would come out of the enrolled owner's inventory bucket.
Charles : I see. What about trust owners (folks that did not enroll a week and just purchased points) is there inventory limited as well?
Don P.: Their inventory would come from the points owners bucket
Charles : And, what about, for lack of a better term, blended owners? enrolled week owners that purchased points. How is their point account managed?
Don P.: They would have access to both buckets.
Charles : I don't know how to phrase this: individually or jointly? Do you get what I'm trying to explain?
Don P.: Yes, they have access to search for inventory through both buckets, if that is what you are referring to
Charles : So there would be one large bucket instead of two smaller buckets to choose from. Is there a simple way to explain why Marriott decided to put weeks in two buckets?
Don P.: I am not sure what you mean exactly.
Charles : I went to a presentation at OceanWatch and I was not made aware that there were different types of inventories. I am wondering why it is done this way.
Charles : In other words, why aren't points just points.
Don P.: I am not sure why it is done the way it is, it might be due to legal stipulations. I wish I could tell you why they have these differences in inventories.
Charles : OK. Thanks Don. You helped me better understand the system and now know that I need to buy the 1000 point minimum when I enrolled my weeks. I purchased my weeks externally and close on them before the 20th. Are there any deadlines that I should be aware of?
Don P.: I believe that the 800 bonus points have a deadline, which I believe are up until the end of this year, but let me check into that and get back to you on that.

Just got a response from a vacation advisor about the weeks owners access limitations unless points are also purchased: "If you get the 1000 Vacation club points you can use those to book with in the Trust inventory. Keep in mind that you would still not be able to use the points you get from your weeks that you own to use in the trust inventory. Those weeks based Vacation club points would still have to be used in the World Vacation Collection."

Sooo, yet another response a bit different than most of the others we've gotten. Is there anyone with enough influence with Marriott to get their FINAL answer on this issue? It is an improtant issue! We need to know who can have access to what and with what!! Is there anything a weeks owner can do to have FULL ACCESS to ALL inventory besides buying bunches of points (which will have to be managed by the owner, separately, forever)?

This is too too much, if the provided statement above is accurate. :annoyed: :annoyed:

 

[tombo]

I spoke with a Marriott Points Specialist today and was told the 2 bucket answer. He stated that legacy owners converting their weeks to destination points can not access the trust pool.

So the majority of Points specialists agree, Marriott has first class customers who buy points retail from Marriott who get access to all points inventory (including trust weeks and Legacy weeks deposited into points), and then there are the second class Legacy owners who convert and will never be able to access trust inventory.

The documents are so hard to read that this might very well be true, it also might be a lie salesmen are telling, and it might be a misunderstanding, but to not be able to answer a simple question like this with no if's and's or but's is NO WAY for a huge company like Marriott to launch a new program. People should be fired for introducing a system they can't even explain to their own employees.

 

[JimC]

If you can not explain a program to your own people, how in the world is anyone else supposed to figure it out?

I emailed MVCI several specific questions regarding the points program several days ago and am still waiting a response. One of the questions dealt with inventories.

 

[CMF]

I really think that now it's the time for Marriott to appoint a thick skinned spokesperson to answer questions on this forum.

Charles

 

[KathyPet]

I asked that same question of the Consumer Advocacy group at Marriott Corp and was assured that all current "legacy owners" would be able to trade for all future new Marriott properties that were sold under the new points system so someone is speaking with the usual Marriott doubletalk.

 

[tombo]

Just got a response from a vacation advisor about the weeks owners access limitations unless points are also purchased: "If you get the 1000 Vacation club points you can use those to book with in the Trust inventory. Keep in mind that you would still not be able to use the points you get from your weeks that you own to use in the trust inventory. Those weeks based Vacation club points would still have to be used in the World Vacation Collection."

:

So legacy weeks converted to points can only be used in the World Vacation Collection which I assume is the weeks pool of inventory deposited for points. Has anyone heard the term World Vacation Collection before?

So possibly one pool is called the World Vacation Collection. Is there a term for the other pool which contains trust weeks?

 

[hotcoffee]

For my final post in this thread. Here again is the applicable section of the Destination Points Disclosure Guide. It is the document that defines the two groups of program members:

IV. Membership in the Program​

1. Trust Members. This paragraph only applies to Trust Members. For so long as the Association governing the Trust Member maintains its Affiliation Agreement with the Exchange Company, such Trust Member will be granted privileges in the Program as a Member, subject to the terms and conditions set forth in this Disclosure Guide. Other than the Affiliation Agreement, there is no Program contract with any Trust Member separate and distinct from the Trust Member’s contract with the Developer for the acquisition of an Interest at an Affiliate Program. Membership in the Program is not an appurtenance to Interests. In order for a Trust Member to enjoy the benefits of Membership in the Program, the Affiliate Program Manager and/or the Association of the Trust Member’s Affiliate Program must have voluntarily entered into and maintain an Affiliation Agreement with Exchange Company. During the term of the Affiliation Agreement, Trust Members will have the right to voluntarily reserve and use the Accommodations that are a part of the Program as described in the Exchange Procedures. If a Trust Member desires to use the Accommodations outside the Trust Member’s Affiliate Program (e.g., outside the Trust Member’s trust) or access Exchange Benefits, from time to time, the Trust Member may voluntarily participate in the Program described in this Disclosure Guide and the Exchange Procedures. There is no guaranty that the renewal of any Affiliation Agreement will occur. Every Affiliation Agreement will have a two year term and may be renewed on a voluntary basis by mutual agreement of the applicable Association and Exchange Company. Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions of the Program as determined by Exchange Company.
2. Exchange Members. This paragraph only applies to Exchange Members. In order to enjoy the benefits of Membership in the Program as a Exchange Member, an owner of an Interest must have voluntarily entered into an Enrollment Agreement with Exchange Company. Membership in the Program is not an appurtenance to Interests. Exchange Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions for Membership in the Program. During the term of the Exchange Member’s Enrollment Agreement with Exchange Company and so long as a Exchange Member remains enrolled in the Program, Exchange Members will have the right to reserve and use the Accommodations and facilities that are a part of the Program in accordance with the Exchange Procedures. If a Exchange Member desires to use the Accommodations outside the Exchange Member’s Affiliate Program or access Exchange Benefits, from time to time, the Exchange Member may voluntarily participate in the Program described in this Disclosure Guide and the Exchange Procedures. There is no guaranty that the renewal of any Enrollment Agreement will occur. Every Enrollment Agreement will have a one year term and may be renewed on a voluntary basis by the Exchange Member. Members must comply with all of the terms and conditions of the Program as determined by Exchange Company.