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NO Access to trusts pool by enrolled owners (Marriott's response - post #447)

CMF

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Conversation with Marriott

I just had in online chat with a rep. There are two buckets. Blended owners (legacy owners that also buy points) have access to all the inventory.

Charles
 

tombo

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Finding out about all the wrongs Marriott has done to Legacy owners with their points launch is like watching a soap opera.

One day Marriott is charging resale owners more than retail. If it was a soap opera it would be a married person with lipstick on the collar. Signs of bad things to come.

Next the skim is found out about. In the soap opera it could be seeing a spouse in an embrace with another person. When Marriott is asked, oh no we aren't doing that, when asked again we are doing that, when asked again, maybe?

Now Marriott is later caught and grudgingly admits that they will never give legacy converters access to trust inventory. Too bad Legacy owners, take it or leave it. We care about the new purchasers, not our past customers.

This is the final betrayal for many. In the soap opera it would be you catching your spouse in bed with another, and when confronted being told by your spouse, this is how it is , accept it or not. I have moved on.

Some here will actually accept such treachery and say what can I do to make it better? The answer to that question from both Marriott and the uncaring spouse is basically the same. Hop into bed with my new lover at any terms I choose or else I really don't care what you do. My new lover/points customer is all I care about, you are yesterday's news.

I wonder what twists and turns will be in next week's episode?
 
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puckmanfl

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good evening...

CMF...

Are you telling me that if I fork out another $9200 for 1000 purchased pts., my legacy points can now play with the "big boys"???. This actually makes it worse!!! My legacy points are not part of the trust and thus it would be egregious for me to have access to trust inventory, however for $9200 extra all is forgiven and the trust owners really would not mind if I access their inventory!!!

yikes my $85K spent in 2004 isn't good enough!!!

please forgive my sarcasm, I know you are just trying to help....
 

drp392

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I just had in online chat with a rep. There are two buckets. Blended owners (legacy owners that also buy points) have access to all the inventory.

Charles

I really don't know why this is shocking to anyone. This is how they get you to buy trust points if you are a legacy owner. Wall Street, MAR, etc... need I say more.
 

tombo

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I just had in online chat with a rep. There are two buckets. Blended owners (legacy owners that also buy points) have access to all the inventory.

Charles

Isn't that special. If you own 8 weeks purchased retail from Marriott and convert to points, you will never have access to the trust inventory. If you own a bronze every other year week purchased resale and buy some points from Marriott you get access to all inventory. Now everyone should feel free to buy points from Marriott secure in the knowledge that if you buy points directly from them that they will always treat you special in the future since you are their customer, just like they are treating their current customers so special as they roll out points.

After all they have done to current owners, who could ever trust Marriott to treat them right in the future no matter what they promise you now?
 

bogey21

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This is all nuts. If enough you are right in your analysis, I suspect that it will devalue existing Weeks in sold out resorts (unless of course Marriott buys them). I sold my 5 Marriotts (Orlando and Hilton Head) 7 or 8 years ago when I got mad at Marriott for changing their Owner Sales and Owner Rental Programs. If I can buy back one or two of the Weeks I sold for 25 cents on the dollar, I might do it and just use them.

George
 

dougp26364

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This BAD NEWS came from the post related to points presentation at MCV. I don't know how to link that information but thought this needed a new topic title . Puckman discovered that enrolled members would not be able to use their points to get properties owned by the trust. This seemed incredulous to me and beyond the realm of possibilities.

I just called and he was apparently told the truth. Those of us who enrolled and deposited our weeks for points will only see other enrolled members deposits. The unsold weeks will not be available to us. The way we could get into the newer properties is if an owner of those properties deposited a week.

The representative said it had always been that way and that was the way she was trained. She said it wouldn't be fair to let the people who just paid an entry fee have the same access as people buying points. This was after talking to a supervisor. She said it is in the documents.

I still don't know what Marriott will do with unsold properties.

Feel free to merge this with previous post or retitled that post but this topic in a headline of some form.

I have a different take on this.

Just like trust owners will have to have the exchange manager request an exchange through Interval from weeks depotited from legacy owners, Legacy owners will have to also do the same in reverse. Request weeks deposited by the trust manager with Interval to obtain legacy weeks for points owners.

On the surface this looks like a bad deal but, in reality I don't believe anyone is going to notice. It's just how they have to keep inventory seperate rather than co-mingle.
 

SKH

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can not combine trust points with legacy DP points.

I just got off the phone with Marriott. If you convert your Legacy weeks for DP points, you will only have access to Legacy inventory. If you buy new points youwill only have access to trust inventory. You will not be able to combine them. So this will make it harder for you to book a vacation.
 

Cathyb

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Sure sounds like what RCI did years ago

It is simple for Marriott to administer 2 inventories. The computer deposits your week into a legacy pool and you can only access the legacy pool.

Points owners who buy points directly from Marriott can access the trust inventory, and barring someone finding it to be specifically prohibited in writing, I would bet the retail points buyers can access the legacy weeks deposited into points too.

Remember when RCI had 'Weeks owners only' then they introduced points; eventually the Points owners had access to our Weeks inventory but not vice versa. :wall: :wall:
 

drp392

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I just got off the phone with Marriott. If you convert your Legacy weeks for DP points, you will only have access to Legacy inventory. If you buy new points youwill only have access to trust inventory. You will not be able to combine them. So this will make it harder for you to book a vacation.

Hold on, so if I get 5625 points converting my resale weeks then buy 1000 new points, I will only have access to the trust pool with the 1000 and not the 5625? The 5625 will only have access to the legacy pool even after buying new points? Sick. No sale!
 

windje2000

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Hold on, so if I get 5625 points converting my resale weeks then buy 1000 new points, I will only have access to the trust pool with the 1000 and not the 5625? The 5625 will only have access to the legacy pool even after buying new points? Sick. No sale!

There was once a book written about Continental Airlines entitled From Worst to First by Gordon Bethune, the CEO.

The title of the book about Marriott will be From First to Worst.

Marriott is racing for the bottom, and winning.
 

hotcoffee

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I just got off the phone with Marriott. If you convert your Legacy weeks for DP points, you will only have access to Legacy inventory. If you buy new points youwill only have access to trust inventory. You will not be able to combine them. So this will make it harder for you to book a vacation.

I think you might have misunderstood the Marriott rep. Legacy (meaning something left over from the past) inventory refers to the weeks inventory. If you reserve a week at your home resort regardless of whether you are enrolled or are not enrolled, you are accessing legacy inventory at your home resort. Points inventory refers to the inventory available to enrolled members or those who own only points. Anyone accessing legacy inventory does not have access to the points inventory. Those who use points do not have access to legacy inventory (other than weeks deposited into II - and then only if the Club Manager is unable to fulfill a trade request via the points inventory).
 

dougp26364

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I just got off the phone with Marriott. If you convert your Legacy weeks for DP points, you will only have access to Legacy inventory. If you buy new points youwill only have access to trust inventory. You will not be able to combine them. So this will make it harder for you to book a vacation.

Now that's a little twist that could make old owners who bought additional points a little less pleased with their purchase.

Somehow I can't see Marriott, or any large developer, not forseeing the problems this can cause and not have some sort of work-around that smooths out the process.

This is one of those reasons I've recommended exercising caution before moving ahead. If there's no deadline that's pushing you, it may be best to stand on the sidelines to see how all of this works itself out. I still have confidence that it won't be a problem in the end but, I'd still like to see the end result before laying down my cash.

Marriott has done probably the WORST job of rolling out this program and, IMHO, made it considerably more complicated that was necessary fromt the start. They'd have been better off playing follow the leader taking lessons from some of the successful points overlay systems that are all around them.
 

hotcoffee

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. . .
Marriott has done probably the WORST job of rolling out this program and, IMHO, made it considerably more complicated that was necessary fromt the start. They'd have been better off playing follow the leader taking lessons from some of the successful points overlay systems that are all around them.

Marriott's own employees have made the points rollout into perhaps one of the worst new program rollouts in business history. No two reps seem to tell people the same thing. This is unbelievable.

Everyone here is panicking. The documents define the new program, and none of them justify the conclusions posted in this thread.
 

larue

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good afternoon

It's pretty simple folks...

Trust owners can access ANY week in the point inventory. Legacy owners that convert a week to points can access ONLY the inventory that other legacy owners have converted to MR or DC points + units available from delinquencies...

There are some provisions for crossover for legacy point players if and when trust owners hit the legacy points inventory.

This is 10 times worse than the skim. At least the skim was seen upfront and can be viewed as a feeble attempt to charge a fee for short stays, definitive dates and flexibility!! The two sets of inventories for points players are hidden in a well crafted clause about affiliated resorts when describing the exchange company for enrollee's...

I'm stuck (out $695) and will test drive my 4550 pts on 7/26 to see just how bad it really is...The good news is that if I don't see anything in pointr inventory. I can keep my week as a week (as I have not yet converted it). I can then lock off and play in the II account. If they ever contact me about it!!!!

yikes...


I emailed a Marriott Vacation Club Points Specialist with whom I have been working and he says this is not the case. Here is the correspondence:

From me to him:

Hi. As I have previously mentioned, I look at a bulletin board on timeshares fairly frequently. There is a discussion thread over there that is claiming that weeks owners that enroll into the points program do not have full access to resorts in the trust, but only into resorts where other weeks owners have also enrolled and traded their weeks for points. Here is a link to the discussion thread:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126203

Is this correct? I have to say that if it is I am not happy and it would appear to contradict our previous conversations before I enrolled my weeks at Ko Olina.​

His reply to me:

Good afternoon,

I've been reading through the post and it does look like there is a lot of confusion circulating out there. I keep up on TUG myself just to be aware of any issues that might arise so I'm prepared to answer owners questions.

I can assure you that those who enroll in the points program have access to all unsold inventory, any weeks in default, and, most importantly, all inventory provided by owners who Trade for Marriott Reward Points.

To give you the specific numbers:

27% of Inventory each year is kept by owners staying in their home club. This is the ONLY inventory you do not have access to.

43% of Inventory will be those who exchange into Interval or elect points for the year. As an enrolled owner, you have access to both of these pools - exchanged II weeks from owners who don't enroll and Elected Weeks.

21% of Inventory will come from owners who trade for Marriott Rewards Points

9% of Inventory will be all unsold weeks (and delinquent weeks).

This comes to 2,657,000 Nights that will be available in 2011. A total of 73% of the Inventory in the Marriott system is available to points members.

I hope these numbers help. Again, I am happy you chose to come to me with your concerns.​

My reply to him:

People are saying that within the points there is a division between those owners like me who have enrolled their deeded weeks and owners under the new system who purchase points. They are saying that there will be two pools of rooms within the points program and that the only rooms that I will be eligible to trade into using points (including the 800 bonus points for enrolling) will be from other deeded owners like myself who enrolled their weeks and then traded for destination points.

Are they correct or do I have the same access to rooms available in the points system as everyone else in the points system, regardless of how they got there (whether through enrolling their deeded weeks or purchasing points under the new system)?

Thanks​

The agent's final reply:

Good afternoon again,

In the most simple terms, you have access to the same rooms as anyone else. The unsold inventory comes to 9% of all inventory in the points program. Those who elect points with their current week have the same rights to it as brand new owners.​
 

Lawlar

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Soooo Confusing

An owner who bought a floating week deed at MOC Lahaina Tower was assured that he or she would have the right to use that deeded interest to reserve a week out of the total amount of weeks represented by the 99 units times 52 weeks (5,148 weeks). [putting aside, for this discussion, the 13 month / 12 month priority].

If the original deed owners want to remain in the old system, do they still have the right to reserve from the 5,148 weeks they were promised? Or is Marriott placing some of those weeks out of the reach of those who purchased deeded units?

If Marriott is removing some of the available inventory from the original program, then every deed owner is getting shafted.

This sounds more and more like a ponzi scheme.
 
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dougp26364

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Marriott's own employees have made the points rollout into perhaps one of the worst new program rollouts in business history. No two reps seem to tell people the same thing. This is unbelievable.

Everyone here is panicking. The documents define the new program, and none of them justify the conclusions posted in this thread.

That's why I'm not panicing about the new program. There are to many others before it for it not to be a decent program but, Marriott has made some mistakes I wouldn't have thought possible. The biggest is not having ALL of their employee's on the same page. This is probably the result of making the program more complex than it really needed to be.

Again, the sidelines not a bad place to be vs jumping in with both feet before seeing the program in action.

FWIW, I still plan on joining. I just don't see a great amount of risk involved and I still see the potential for significant upside. All these details will get worked out and, most of what has been worried about will end up being nothing to have been worried about in the first place.
 

DanCali

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If this is the case, I am one very unhappy camper!:mad: I had gotten past the skim and was thinking the flexibility was worth it for me. This takes it to a whole new level of dissatisfaction.

This is a very interesting trend.

The skim threads were arguments between the owners who were against enrolling and the owners who were for enrolling and the owners on the fence.

This thread it's arguments mostly between the owners who had made up their minds to enroll or already jumped on the bandwagon.

It seems that we all have different breaking points. For some it's skim, for some it's no access to trust pool... and some, who shall remain nameless, will defend Marriott no matter what can of worms opens up.

I'm still pretty speechless and somewhat skeptical about this, but it's a good read. For what it's worth I thought FredM had the best explanation earlier in the day in the other thread.
 

SueDonJ

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Marriott's own employees have made the points rollout into perhaps one of the worst new program rollouts in business history. No two reps seem to tell people the same thing. This is unbelievable.

Everyone here is panicking. The documents define the new program, and none of them justify the conclusions posted in this thread.

No two timeshare reps ever tell a customer the same thing. Why should this be any different?

I completely agree. Marriott would have been so much better served if they'd designated certain reps as the go-to for all Points questions, and then ordered every other Marriott employee to refer all questions to those designated reps. What a mess this has been made into, all attributable to the misinformation offered by obviously unprepared Marriott reps.
 

mjbaran

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I emailed a Marriott Vacation Club Points Specialist with whom I have been working and he says this is not the case. Here is the correspondence:

From me to him:

Hi. As I have previously mentioned, I look at a bulletin board on timeshares fairly frequently. There is a discussion thread over there that is claiming that weeks owners that enroll into the points program do not have full access to resorts in the trust, but only into resorts where other weeks owners have also enrolled and traded their weeks for points. Here is a link to the discussion thread:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126203

Is this correct? I have to say that if it is I am not happy and it would appear to contradict our previous conversations before I enrolled my weeks at Ko Olina.​

His reply to me:

Good afternoon,

I've been reading through the post and it does look like there is a lot of confusion circulating out there. I keep up on TUG myself just to be aware of any issues that might arise so I'm prepared to answer owners questions.

I can assure you that those who enroll in the points program have access to all unsold inventory, any weeks in default, and, most importantly, all inventory provided by owners who Trade for Marriott Reward Points.

To give you the specific numbers:

27% of Inventory each year is kept by owners staying in their home club. This is the ONLY inventory you do not have access to.

43% of Inventory will be those who exchange into Interval or elect points for the year. As an enrolled owner, you have access to both of these pools - exchanged II weeks from owners who don't enroll and Elected Weeks.

21% of Inventory will come from owners who trade for Marriott Rewards Points

9% of Inventory will be all unsold weeks (and delinquent weeks).

This comes to 2,657,000 Nights that will be available in 2011. A total of 73% of the Inventory in the Marriott system is available to points members.

I hope these numbers help. Again, I am happy you chose to come to me with your concerns.​

My reply to him:

People are saying that within the points there is a division between those owners like me who have enrolled their deeded weeks and owners under the new system who purchase points. They are saying that there will be two pools of rooms within the points program and that the only rooms that I will be eligible to trade into using points (including the 800 bonus points for enrolling) will be from other deeded owners like myself who enrolled their weeks and then traded for destination points.

Are they correct or do I have the same access to rooms available in the points system as everyone else in the points system, regardless of how they got there (whether through enrolling their deeded weeks or purchasing points under the new system)?

Thanks​

The agent's final reply:

Good afternoon again,

In the most simple terms, you have access to the same rooms as anyone else. The unsold inventory comes to 9% of all inventory in the points program. Those who elect points with their current week have the same rights to it as brand new owners.​

Would be nice to know what sections of the Exchange Program documentation support the favorable responses above.
 

hotcoffee

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The information that enrolled owners using points have access to different inventories from those who buy points is false. There are only two inventories: the legacy inventory consisting of weeks, and the points inventory consisting of all the inventory available to points exchangers.

The documents make that clear, and the person I deal with at Marriott has also made that clear.
 

SueDonJ

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This is a very interesting trend.

The skim threads were arguments between the owners who were against enrolling and the owners who were for enrolling and the owners on the fence.

This thread it's arguments mostly between the owners who had made up their minds to enroll or already jumped on the bandwagon.

It seems that we all have different breaking points. For some it's skim, for some it's no access to trust pool... and some, who shall remain nameless, will defend Marriott no matter what can of worms opens up.

I'm still pretty speechless and somewhat skeptical about this, but it's a good read. For what it's worth I thought FredM had the best explanation earlier in the day in the other thread.

Yep, Fred covered it all without lapsing into hyperbole, attributing anything sinister to Marriott, or implying insults against other TUGgers. It's too bad we can't all speak so plainly or politely.
 
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