My mum got sucked into a timeshare that was poorly translated

[ScoopKona]

It is, but these timeshares seem to function as their own entity hoping that people signing don't know the law at all.
From the interaction with my mum, Exploria definitely broke some laws when presenting the sales pitch and the contract.
Florida has laws against this to protect people who get into timeshares for material misinterpretation, which they consider fraudulent activity.
So while timeshares are airtight, they can still be hurt if people know how to tackle this.

My mums situation is unique because she only speaks and reads in Spanish, and FL state law requires a legal translator to be present for any contract, especially if the contract is in English.
Regardless, the notary did not show up until the end with the contract, did not discuss or revise the contract, and provided no translation for my mum, knowing she didn't speak English.

Here's what's going to happen if you try to get the contract voided, rescinded, annulled or similar: nothing.

The CEO of the company probably plays golf with the Florida Real Estate Division. The attorney general isn't going to do anything because he was appointed by the guy who gets campaign contributions from the timeshare company. This sort of thing happened in my home town all the time. Google "Bubba Bust" if you'd like a fun read involving a fire chief/drug dealer named Bum Farto. (My down the street neighbor for years.)

Fight it all you want. I wish you luck. But don't spend any money fighting it because it won't do any good. Many people have tried to fight the timeshare industry in Florida and only a handful got anywhere. And there hasn't been any wholesale overhaul of the system. (And if that was going to happen, it would have happened by now.)

Your two options aren't going to change -- use it and make the best of it; or stop paying and walk away. Anything else is a waste of time, money or both.

 

[easyrider]

It matters because she's not retired.
She's low income, and plans on getting a house in 2 years.
They didn't tell her it was a mortgage, they told her it was a subscription. They didn't present the contract until the end with no legal translator to revise it.
If she doesn't get out of this, I'm stuck with it.

That means that you need to pay on this until your mom secures her mortgage, imo. You can try renting it out in the meantime to recoup some of the costs. After the mortgage is secure stop paying and let it go. This path may lead to collection efforts and a ding on the credit score that might affect other purchases.

Bill

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

Here's what's going to happen if you try to get the contract voided, rescinded, annulled or similar: nothing.

The CEO of the company probably plays golf with the Florida Real Estate Division. The attorney general isn't going to do anything because he was appointed by the guy who gets campaign contributions from the timeshare company. This sort of thing happened in my home town all the time. Google "Bubba Bust" if you'd like a fun read involving a fire chief/drug dealer named Bum Farto. (My down the street neighbor for years.)

Fight it all you want. I wish you luck. But don't spend any money fighting it because it won't do any good. Many people have tried to fight the timeshare industry in Florida and only a handful got anywhere. And there hasn't been any wholesale overhaul of the system. (And if that was going to happen, it would have happened by now.)

Your two options aren't going to change -- use it and make the best of it; or stop paying and walk away. Anything else is a waste of time, money or both.

That may be true, but ignoring that the methods used during this signing are different compared to those who do speak fluent English and are able to read the documents, etc.
Yes, my mum is absolutely incompetent.
A lot of people complaining against Exploria seem to have taken the BBB approach or speaking with personal lawyers, etc.
Misleading and material misinterpretation is considered illegal, and shockingly, a lot of people don't seem to know this.
There are some similar class actions, as I found one regarding a Brazilian couple.

It'll be tough. In no way am I saying this is easy. In no way am I guaranteeing success, and in no way do I doubt that Tom J Morriss is going to expensive dinners with politicians, etc.
What I do know is that there's always someone out there who also works in a similar position who's tired of timeshares and people like Tom J Morriss.

 

[dioxide45]

I don't know what Exploria is exactly, but I would bet it's like Sapphire Resorts or Capital Vacations, where they move into older resorts and then make up some point system to book and sell points in that system.

I highly recommend that you file a complaint with the FL Attorney General. I remember when the now retired FL Attorney General contacted me over some complaints I had about one timeshare company that was changing rules on renting.

Most likely, the resorts in the Exploria system are so-so resorts (I think Summer Bay is in that bunch). Some might be nice, but it's nothing I would ever buy or consider buying into for any price (even free). I hope you will take the time to file a complaint with FL's AG. You can actually do it online.

Exploring has Summer Bay Resort in Orlando.

 

[ScoopKona]

That may be true, but ignoring that the methods used during this signing are different compared to those who do speak fluent English and are able to read the documents, etc.
Yes, my mum is absolutely incompetent.
A lot of people complaining against Exploria seem to have taken the BBB approach or speaking with personal lawyers, etc.
Misleading and material misinterpretation is considered illegal, and shockingly, a lot of people don't seem to know this.

Again, I wish you luck. But it's 99% likely to be a waste of time. Be absolutely sure it isn't a waste of money on top of being a waste of time. You're about to learn the hard way just how little oversight there is in this business. The Florida Real Estate Division isn't going to pull the license of the salesperson who sold the timeshare. The attorney general isn't going to void the contract. If a class action suit was going to happen, it would have already.

I agree that you have a case that this contract simply isn't valid. Whether it's a strong, actionable case is another matter entirely. Good luck proving an unenforceable contract in Florida, which LOVES this industry. Contractors love timeshares. Landscaping and pool companies love timeshares. The Dept. of Labor loves timeshares. A big chunk of the people who run that state love timeshares. And the contract was written in such a way that almost every contingency has been addressed -- including language barriers.

You're not going to find an attorney who will take your case on contingency. They're all going to want cash up front. And anyone who tells you the case is likely to succeed is selling you a bill of goods. Be very, very wary of anyone telling you what you want to hear -- especially if they want money up front.

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

Again, I wish you luck. But it's 99% likely to be a waste of time. Be absolutely sure it isn't a waste of money on top of being a waste of time. You're about to learn the hard way just how little oversight there is in this business. The Florida Real Estate Division isn't going to pull the license of the salesperson who sold the timeshare. The attorney general isn't going to void the contract. If a class action suit was going to happen, it would have already.

I agree that you have a case that this contract simply isn't valid. Whether it's a strong, actionable case is another matter entirely. Good luck proving an unenforceable contract in Florida, which LOVES this industry. Contractors love timeshares. Landscaping and pool companies love timeshares. The Dept. of Labor loves timeshares. A big chunk of the people who run that state love timeshares. And the contract was written in such a way that almost every contingency has been addressed -- including language barriers.

You're not going to find an attorney who will take your case on contingency. They're all going to want cash up front. And anyone who tells you the case is likely to succeed is selling you a bill of goods. Be very, very wary of anyone telling you what you want to hear -- especially if they want money up front.

I'm reading the contract. It doesn't state that in the event the person doesn't speak the language that their signing is still legitimate.

And yeah, I already told her to avoid lawyers or exit companies and people promising success rates, etc. I fortunately caught it in time before she paid some ahole in Arizona $2k to help her out of it.
When I told her to ignore him, he called her back lol promising success rates. I told her to never hire anyone who promises that crap, especially if they're persistent.

 

[Janann]

- The notary acknowledged that they spoke Spanish and my mum did not speak or read in English
- This was when the contract was finally presented. Again, the sales person did not discuss anything in the contract accurately, and no contract to go over was present during the 3 hours.
- The notary did not have a legal translator present to go over the contract
- The notary did not discuss the contract and simply asked them to sign promising that the contract just had what the sales person discussed

The notary has no legal obligation whatsoever to translate, review the contract, etc. A notary's only purpose is to check ID's, witness handwritten signatures, and then record the ID information to prove that the person who signed the document is who they claim to be.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with all this.

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

The notary has no legal obligation whatsoever to translate, review the contract, etc. A notary's only purpose is to check ID's, witness handwritten signatures, and then record the ID information to prove that the person who signed the document is who they claim to be.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with all this.

Thanks for clarifying.
If it's not the notary's obligation, then whose is it?

 

[Janann]

Thanks for clarifying.
If it's not the notary's obligation, then whose is it?

Its the obligation of the person who is signing the contract. A timeshare is not a government program or anything that someone is entitled to own. If your mother had signed a payment agreement with the IRS, then I would say there is some obligation to accommodate a request for translation or legal advice. But a timeshare purchase is kind of like buying a Corvette -- its completely optional.

 

[Snazzylass]

It matters because she's not retired.
She's low income, and plans on getting a house in 2 years.
They didn't tell her it was a mortgage, they told her it was a subscription. They didn't present the contract until the end with no legal translator to revise it.
If she doesn't get out of this, I'm stuck with it.

Maybe it's not a mortgage. Have you read the contract?
From what you have said so far, your mother's current credit score is 630. Is that correct?
Her friend C gave her credit card. Is that right?
Whose name is on the contract? Just your mom?

Sure, follow through with contacting the FL AG. You also mentioned that you have a family friend in RE? Has that person read the contract?

ScoopKona was right. If you do not want the subscription, just stop paying. If you are able to get assistance from the FL AG regarding your concerns about fraud and laws broken, there should be no issue.

Surely you have googled Exploria. There is lots of negative information online about them. Also, it says right on their website that there are income requirements. Did your mom and her friend provide accurate information regarding their income? When they accepted the invitation for the presentation, C likely signed something saying her income was at least $70k per year. Is that accurate?

 

[RX8]

A lot of this doesn’t make sense to me. First of all I am shocked that a 603 credit score with low income was approved for a timeshare. I also understand that she bought this with a friend but where is the friend in all of this? Does this friend want out as well? Can they pay for it solely? Lastly, your mother is low income with a challenged credit score who, as you state, would have to rely on you to house and feed her if she has to pay for 1/2 of this timeshare yet she plans on buying a house in two years?

One option is to pay an attorney a nominal fee to send a letter on your behalf outlining your complaints requesting cancellation of the timeshare.

 

[ScoopKona]

One option is to pay an attorney a nominal fee to send a letter on your behalf outlining your complaints requesting cancellation of the timeshare.

I don't disagree. But this could start OP's mom on the slippery slope that means throwing considerably more money at the problem.

Barring more (and better) information, I'd just rip the band-aid off and wait for the credit demerit to fall off. It doesn't take long. But I also have zero faith in the state of Florida. (Actually, I have ironclad faith that Florida can be counted on to do the wrong thing.)

Florida. The Gunshine State. State motto: "If it's being done right, it isn't being done in Florida."

 

[StaceyM]

My husband does hearings for the Texas Professional Realtors Standards Committee. He said the issues that might be at play in Texas with regards to professional standards for maintaining a real estate license:

Agent
1. Did the licensed agent make it clear to your mother whom he was representing, and that he did not represent your mother?
2. If the agent orally translated the contract, (especially in lieu of giving her the actual existing Spanish version of the contract) there could be issues of "unauthorized practice of law".
3. Definitely file a complaint against the agent's broker for "inadequate supervision".
4. Does the agent or the broker have "Errors and Omissions" or "general liability" insurance?
5. Plus #2 would make any allegations of fraud more likely to stick. Why would he translate if the correct language was available in writing?

Notary:
1. The notary (an employee of the timeshare company?) is not supposed to comment on anything and there's probably a basis for complaining to whomever licenses notaries in Florida.
2. In Texas, all notaries must carry some amount of liability insurance. If she assured an illiterate person of the contents of a contract, it would seem she's liable for something...
3. Additionally, I suspect that the notary would merit some complaint for "unauthorized practice of law" since apparently both you and your mother were under the impression she had attorney-like responsibilities, she represented your interests, and she confirmed the translation.

Here is a page that discusses the qualifications and statues for selling timeshares in Florida:

Timeshare License Requirements

Florida Licensing Regulations: Learn about professions, timeshare, and appeals. Consult top attorneys for expert guidance.

www.jimersonfirm.com

With only $14k at stake, it's questionable whether hiring an attorney would be cost effective. I do think the advice about working through regulatory agencies and the attorney general first is good.

My questions:
1. Does your mother's credit report reflect that they performed a credit check? That might be interesting either way. What is the bank or financial institution issuing the loan?
2. Limits for small claims court in Florida are $8000. Since your mom is apparently on the hook for $7000, I wonder if something can be done there? Is there any TUG history of timeshare contracts being mediated through small claims court in Florida?

 

[abcdefg]

They have a facebook group. It seems like everyone hates them and wants out. Even people who have paid off their mortgages are trying to get out to avoid the fees and they are having trouble giving away the timeshare for free. Do they have an HOA? One idea is to organize and get something passed where every new owner is given documentation on the value of the timeshare along with the historical increase in fees and other complaints. This will put pressure on them to lower fees and it will encourage people to back out before the rescission period. You might want to contact former disgruntled employees on Linkedin. Some of them might be willing to let slip some of their fraudulent tactics. The notary seems to have broken some laws.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0117/0117.html

You could hand out information to people just signing up which might lead them to backing out. If you get at least two other people to back out not only are you a hero and you saved some people from financial ruin but now they are behind by *bleep*ing with you. I think much more than this is possible. I would try to expose them and get media attention. The people who work for these companies are as bad as pedophiles and Nazis and if people knew how bad they are and the financial devastation they cause than they would be appropriately socially ostracized. I am not religious but when I hear about things like this I wish hell did exist because these people deserve to burn in ever lasting hellfire. There could be a discriminatory angle if they were targeting your mother based on her ethnicity and non English speaking status. I would look at criminal charges too. This seems fraudulent. It's a hell Mary but if there is even a 1 in a million chance these *bleep*ers face justice and rot away in jail than it's worth a shot. *bleep* em. Anyways good luck.

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

Maybe it's not a mortgage. Have you read the contract?
From what you have said so far, your mother's current credit score is 630. Is that correct?
Her friend C gave her credit card. Is that right?
Whose name is on the contract? Just your mom?

Sure, follow through with contacting the FL AG. You also mentioned that you have a family friend in RE? Has that person read the contract?

ScoopKona was right. If you do not want the subscription, just stop paying. If you are able to get assistance from the FL AG regarding your concerns about fraud and laws broken, there should be no issue.

Surely you have googled Exploria. There is lots of negative information online about them. Also, it says right on their website that there are income requirements. Did your mom and her friend provide accurate information regarding their income? When they accepted the invitation for the presentation, C likely signed something saying her income was at least $70k per year. Is that accurate?

My mother has a credit score of 603.
She makes less than $3,000 a month.
The contract was signed alongside with her friend, so both of their names are in the contract.
Exloria has asked my mom for her credit information and she's not provided any.

But no, my mom does not make anything close to 70k a year. Her friend recently lost a string of jobs, so I also know that her friend does not make close to $70,000 a year.

Combined they probably make less than $50,000 a year.

And they did not check income, they did not run any credit checks. They didn't run anything as my mom puts it. They simply made her pay & sign contract, while telling her that this is more of a subscription to some kind of Airbnb.

 

[abcdefg]

Cost them business at the very least. Make them regret their actions. Visit the resort and warn others just now signing.fot they back out. Let them know if the mess around that they will find out

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

My husband does hearings for the Texas Professional Realtors Standards Committee. He said the issues that might be at play in Texas with regards to professional standards for maintaining a real estate license:

Agent
1. Did the licensed agent make it clear to your mother whom he was representing, and that he did not represent your mother?
2. If the agent orally translated the contract, (especially in lieu of giving her the actual existing Spanish version of the contract) there could be issues of "unauthorized practice of law".
3. Definitely file a complaint against the agent's broker for "inadequate supervision".
4. Does the agent or the broker have "Errors and Omissions" or "general liability" insurance?
5. Plus #2 would make any allegations of fraud more likely to stick. Why would he translate if the correct language was available in writing?

Notary:
1. The notary (an employee of the timeshare company?) is not supposed to comment on anything and there's probably a basis for complaining to whomever licenses notaries in Florida.
2. In Texas, all notaries must carry some amount of liability insurance. If she assured an illiterate person of the contents of a contract, it would seem she's liable for something...
3. Additionally, I suspect that the notary would merit some complaint for "unauthorized practice of law" since apparently both you and your mother were under the impression she had attorney-like responsibilities, she represented your interests, and she confirmed the translation.

Here is a page that discusses the qualifications and statues for selling timeshares in Florida:

Timeshare License Requirements

Florida Licensing Regulations: Learn about professions, timeshare, and appeals. Consult top attorneys for expert guidance.

www.jimersonfirm.com

With only $14k at stake, it's questionable whether hiring an attorney would be cost effective. I do think the advice about working through regulatory agencies and the attorney general first is good.

My questions:
1. Does your mother's credit report reflect that they performed a credit check? That might be interesting either way. What is the bank or financial institution issuing the loan?
2. Limits for small claims court in Florida are $8000. Since your mom is apparently on the hook for $7000, I wonder if something can be done there? Is there any TUG history of timeshare contracts being mediated through small claims court in Florida?

So I have no personal involvement in this as in I was not signing anything. The people who signed it are my mum and her friend. They did not run any credit check or anything.

But thank you so much for your comment. I'm going to be looking into this as thoroughly as I've been looking into all the laws regarding material misinterpretation, false advertisement, and so many others that seem to have happened during this exchange. Fortunately, there are some laws in Florida that protect people from this kind of interaction. I am also talking to the Florida general attorney as well as the real estate commission and I'm letting them know that we do not blame exploria club as a whole, that this was something performed by the sales person and that the salesperson should be held responsible. That way. We're hoping that they understand that what we want is to get out of the contract so that the salesperson bears the responsibility for using fraudulent methods to receive commission.

 

[abcdefg]

Do they have an HOA? If they won't let her out than organize with all the other pissed off owners and pass some rules that all new members will be handed educational information about the resorts. This way they will back out before the rescission period.

 

[abcdefg]

Contact ex disgruntled employees on LinkedIn. One of them may be willing to let slip some of their fraudulent tactics

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

A lot of this doesn’t make sense to me. First of all I am shocked that a 603 credit score with low income was approved for a timeshare. I also understand that she bought this with a friend but where is the friend in all of this? Does this friend want out as well? Can they pay for it solely? Lastly, your mother is low income with a challenged credit score who, as you state, would have to rely on you to house and feed her if she has to pay for 1/2 of this timeshare yet she plans on buying a house in two years?

One option is to pay an attorney a nominal fee to send a letter on your behalf outlining your complaints requesting cancellation of the timeshare.

That is what I'm looking into. So far. I've contacted the Florida general attorney and the real estate commission and inform them of the fraudulence that seems to have taken place when it came to the sales person. We want them to know that we're not challenging the company entirely, we are basically stating that the sales person committed fraudulent activity to win some form of commission, That way they can review this without thinking. Oh my god, it's a massive hit and they're trying to class action. If they realize that this was performed under very predatory and misleading advances, as well as using material misinterpretation, then our hope is that they'll cancel the contract and fire the salesperson.
That way no one has to go to court.

But in regards to my mum's credit score. Yeah, it is 603. Her friend also undoubtedly has a little credit score, because she's also practically unemployed. They both signed on it. They did not perform a credit check from what my mum tells me.

They make less than $70,000 combined, which is apparently how much you have to make to qualify for this contract?
Combine they make less than $50,000 a year.

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

I don't disagree. But this could start OP's mom on the slippery slope that means throwing considerably more money at the problem.

Barring more (and better) information, I'd just rip the band-aid off and wait for the credit demerit to fall off. It doesn't take long. But I also have zero faith in the state of Florida. (Actually, I have ironclad faith that Florida can be counted on to do the wrong thing.)

Florida. The Gunshine State. State motto: "If it's being done right, it isn't being done in Florida."

Probably the truest comment. I used to live in Miami, Florida when I was a kid. Definitely not a place where law is practiced with good faith.

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

Maybe it's not a mortgage. Have you read the contract?
From what you have said so far, your mother's current credit score is 630. Is that correct?
Her friend C gave her credit card. Is that right?
Whose name is on the contract? Just your mom?

Sure, follow through with contacting the FL AG. You also mentioned that you have a family friend in RE? Has that person read the contract?

ScoopKona was right. If you do not want the subscription, just stop paying. If you are able to get assistance from the FL AG regarding your concerns about fraud and laws broken, there should be no issue.

Surely you have googled Exploria. There is lots of negative information online about them. Also, it says right on their website that there are income requirements. Did your mom and her friend provide accurate information regarding their income? When they accepted the invitation for the presentation, C likely signed something saying her income was at least $70k per year. Is that accurate?

Also forgot to add, I did read the contract. It does state that it is a mortgage, it does state that it's a loan.
Her friend gave the information that they were asking for including her credit information after they had signed. So probably I would say a month after they signed?
No credit score runs were made. And I don't even think that they asked for their actual monthly or annual income. Because if 70k is where it should sit then there's absolutely no way that they could have qualified.

 

[abcdefg]

A notary public may not take the acknowledgment of a person who does not speak or understand the English language, unless the nature and effect of the instrument to be notarized is translated into a language which the person does understand. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0117/0117.html

 

[silentg]

Summer Bay is an Exploria Resort in Clermont, FL. We had a timeshare there ( actually our son’s) we bought it from him when he was divorced. It was a floating every other year timeshare . It was paid in full when we sold it, for maintenance fee and closing cost. Do you know what kind of contract your mother and C were sold? There are different kinds of timeshares there, some are stand alone houses, condos, and point based timeshares.
I’m not too much help with this, but I didn’t like dealing with this timeshare resort.
One other thing, don’t blame the whole state of Florida for the Exploria Resort. We have lived in Florida for 36 years and feel it’s a great place to live and vacation.
Good Luck In getting this resolved.
Silentg

 

[RX8]

If there is a loan then a credit report was pulled. If a credit report was pulled then a credit application was filed out. If the sales rep fudged the income on the application to help it qualify for the loan then that is a crime. What income did your mom and friend put down on their respective applications?