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Mid August update (downtime *early* Wednesday night)

HitchHiker71

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Why though, if it produces the wrong number for certain owners? If they standardized it and it produces the wrong result, then they did it wrong.
It's not wrong - it's just different. I suspect this is a change that they simply neglected to announce - but that's just speculation on my part - as it's obvious to me that the benefits are now being calculated separately by retail/resale buckets - and no longer based upon the collective points totals in the account.

EDIT: For instance, if it's possible to display on the benefits summary the calculated number of housekeeping credits on your VIP account, but on the overall dashboard still correctly show (and implement) unlimited HK, then it's certainly possible to correctly show and implement the correct number of HK on the dashboard for a non-VIP.
Per my previous post - my HKs are down net 1 HK using the same math as what was reported from the FB poster. I see the same thing in other words - I just don't care because my developer bucket enjoys grandfathered unlimited HK credits. If Wyndham were to use two different calculations - one for VIPs and another for non-VIPs - that would be discriminatory. Also, for anyone who upgrades to VIP now - there's no such thing as unlimited HK for developer points any longer. So if Wyndham were to make a change to "round up" for non-VIP owners - and not use the exact same calculation method for a VIP owner - that would likely result in claims that the same rules do not apply to the entire ownership base. The same rules have to apply to all accounts - with VIPs receiving any added HK VIP benefits on top of their base entitlements. As Ron recently said on another thread - it is Wyndham's job to ensure a level playing field for all owners - that all owners are playing by the same rules (paraphrasing).

The Benefits Summary and the buckets we see - these are likely exposing the actual back office data for our accounts. That's why the Benefits Summary, at present, shows our actual HK entitlements as opposed to merely saying "unlimited" like the Points Summary currently says. These buckets are what "matters" when making transactions from our accounts, as these are the benefits we're actually entitled to. Personally I hope they do not change the Benefits Summary to simply show "unlimited" as I would actually like to continue to see negative bucket values to help me better understand how much benefit I'm actually getting from my VIP ownership - but that's me. ;)

All that said, it will be interesting to see what reaction we receive from Wyndham on this issue. I suspect they are going to come back and say "that's the way it works now" since they are clearly calculating everything separately via the buckets now using a DeveloperHK + ResaleHK = TotalHK approach for HK credits, as opposed to the old TotalAccountPoints / 70k = TotalHK approach. If that is the response we get - we'll then recommend a "round up" threshold approach in the name of preserving the customer experience - and then see what the response is to that requested enhancement.
 

Eric B

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For the VIPs out there, Do me a favor, look at your benefit summary for when they add the HK to your account are they split up by Developer and Resale or are they all together like mine.
I am a hybrid VIP owner with 127K resale in the even years. My HKs are are split between developer and resale, with the appropriate amount for my VIPG account listed as though it weren't unlimited HKs in the benefits summary page, unlimited VIP HKs in the points summary page, and 1 resale HK in the even years in the benefits summary and points summary pages. I have more resale points in the odd years and the resale HKs show properly there.

.....

The calculation is undoubtedly the same for all accounts. The calculation should be standardized across all accounts by design IMHO. That's obviously what Wyndham is doing - but in the case of non-VIP hybrid owners it appears this wasn't communicated. For example, using my own VIP hybrid account as an example, my total annual points is 1,406,500 points. So using the total amount of points (without VIP unlimited HK benefits), I'd be entitled to a total of 20 HK credits. Under the new system, my resale bucket shows as 9, and my developer bucket shows as 10. So I get one less, because it's calculating based upon the separate buckets. In my case, I don't really care that much because I have unlimited HK credits with my developer points, where I'm likely to use my points within the 60 day discount window and burn up more HK credits as a result.

.....
It's not much of a difference, but more of a nuisance for me because of the single HK in the even years. This is because I have the ability to PDF those points to either an even or odd year. The nuisance part is that I now have a disincentive to PDF resale points into the even years due to the single HK. It also fundamentally annoys me that if I've used that resale HK on a stay that costs 70K resale points and have the opportunity to borrow some VIP points from my own account to use with the remaining 57K resale points, even if I borrow 13K VIP points or more, despite having paid the program fees on another 70K points and therefore should have another HK to use, I will have to pay an extra fee to buy one. If, on the other hand, they were to credit the 13+K VIP points towards generating another resale HK (and concomitantly removing credit for those points from generating VIP HKs for folks not having unlimited HKs), I would have access to another HK based on what I've paid in program fees. It's really a mischaracterization to call them free HKs, after all - we are paying for them. The same thought process would apply to RTs.

IMHO, the proper implementation for a hybrid VIP owner with unlimited HKs and RTs would have been to grant the usage of paid-for HKs and RTs based on the number of points program fees are being paid for in the account, and have the VIP program cover extra ones. That would probably be viewed as more generous than it should have been, though, so I believe crediting borrowed VIP points towards resale HKs/RTs would be another possibility that would be more equitable since the owner is paying for them already.
 

scootr5

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this enhancement was added last week during the same sprint release that added the Benefits Summary component.
Any idea why some of us still can't see anything on the "Benefits Summary" tab?
 

HitchHiker71

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Any idea why some of us still can't see anything on the "Benefits Summary" tab?
I would call into the dedicated support line and report this issue. This is likely an account specific issue of some kind, and therefore isn't really something I can report back as I would need account specific information to do so - along with a process that can be used to reproduce the issue - and/or a way of identifying the small subset of impacted accounts - and I have neither at this time. :cool:
 

Eric B

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Finally canceled my remaining reservations for this calendar year and tried to PDF the points. The system would have let me PDF the developer points, but was still not working when I tried to PDF either the resale points alone or all the points, which should have been an option. Rather than keep pounding the wall with my head, I called in to the dedicated help line and they did it for me. Apparently the system wasn't working for them properly, either - they had to manually adjust my account to remove both the developer and resale points from the current year and add them to the future year I asked for. They also comped the PDF due to the inconvenience, which was an unexpected plus.

The benefits summary page never really showed the proper allocation of points to the transactions. The top line numbers added up to what I expected after the cancellations, though.
 

VacayKat

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Finally canceled my remaining reservations for this calendar year and tried to PDF the points. The system would have let me PDF the developer points, but was still not working when I tried to PDF either the resale points alone or all the points, which should have been an option. Rather than keep pounding the wall with my head, I called in to the dedicated help line and they did it for me. Apparently the system wasn't working for them properly, either - they had to manually adjust my account to remove both the developer and resale points from the current year and add them to the future year I asked for. They also comped the PDF due to the inconvenience, which was an unexpected plus.

The benefits summary page never really showed the proper allocation of points to the transactions. The top line numbers added up to what I expected after the cancellations, though.
I would keep an eye on it - good possibility when they get it working properly manual overrides could be affected too. Hoping they aren’t.
 

r4rab

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Any idea why a VIP account with Use Year Oct-Sep doesn't show VIP RARP? Am I the only one with this type of use year that doesn't see VIP RARP?
 

paxsarah

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The same rules have to apply to all accounts - with VIPs receiving any added HK VIP benefits on top of their base entitlements.
The problem here is that some hybrid non-VIPs are now receiving less than their base entitlements. Until Wyndham changes the policy in writing, the entitlement is 1 HK per 70,000 points. They are now not receiving it.

and then see what the response is to that requested enhancement.
Rectifying a regression.

This is likely an account specific issue of some kind
Weirdly coincidental that it's also happening to me, and we're both resale-only owners. But I'll take it on myself.
 

paxsarah

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The same rules have to apply to all accounts
The rules are written down in plain English. The programming has to support those rules, not the other way around. The new rules as written for VIPs who own resale points are written for VIPs, not non-VIPs. The only written rule for non-VIPs hasn't changed. So they either need to rewrite the rules if that's what they intended to do, or fix the programming to support the rules.
 

troy12n

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Mine is doing something funky now... it shows "current use year as 10/2018-9/2019 and 0 points on the "Benefits Summary" page.

When I use the drop down to select "future use year", and show my current UY of 10/2020-9/2021, it shows all points available.

On the "points summary" page, it looks correct.

Anyone else seeing that?
 

VacayKat

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Any idea why a VIP account with Use Year Oct-Sep doesn't show VIP RARP? Am I the only one with this type of use year that doesn't see VIP RARP?
I do not see RARP - my outrigger is still broken too. And they miscoded my accounts - so unlike a lucky resale owner here, I have fewer VIP points than I should have.
I think there are a lot of accounts that were never fully implemented properly and all the ‘updates’ are showing the problems now.
 

troy12n

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Any idea why a VIP account with Use Year Oct-Sep doesn't show VIP RARP? Am I the only one with this type of use year that doesn't see VIP RARP?
My account doesn't show RARP at all and i have the same use year as you
 

Manzana

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One thing I am concerned about is the reservation Transactions that are free until the end of August. Even though they are free and unlimited will Wyndham be keeping track of them and if you use them they will count against. your total. Meaning I will not owe for them but starting September 1rst will I have 0 available and have to pay for everyone I use for non VIP transactions
 

paxsarah

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One thing I am concerned about is the reservation Transactions that are free until the end of August. Even though they are free and unlimited will Wyndham be keeping track of them and if you use them they will count against. your total. Meaning I will not owe for them but starting September 1rst will I have 0 available and have to pay for everyone I use for non VIP transactions
They are only free through the end of August if you've already run out and are in the pay-as-you-go range. That is, if you had free reservation transactions remaining in your account in August, there's no benefit in using them in August. The current special is not that reservations don't require the use of a transaction - it's that if you were already out of free reservation transactions then any you book in August that you would have had to pay for are free. If you get to September 1st with 0 remaining, you'll be paying for any you need for the rest of the year. If you have unlimited for your VIP points for gold and above, unlimited is unlimited.
 

Eric B

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One thing I am concerned about is the reservation Transactions that are free until the end of August. Even though they are free and unlimited will Wyndham be keeping track of them and if you use them they will count against. your total. Meaning I will not owe for them but starting September 1rst will I have 0 available and have to pay for everyone I use for non VIP transactions
What they actually had for the offer in the email I got was that there would be no cost for online reservation transactions through the end of August. There wasn't anything about not using up the reservation transactions in your account during that period, so I believe you are correct that you might not have to pay for them now, but might wind up with none available starting September 1.

They are only free through the end of August if you've already run out and are in the pay-as-you-go range. That is, if you had free reservation transactions remaining in your account in August, there's no benefit in using them in August. The current special is not that reservations don't require the use of a transaction - it's that if you were already out of free reservation transactions then any you book in August that you would have had to pay for are free. If you get to September 1st with 0 remaining, you'll be paying for any you need for the rest of the year. If you have unlimited for your VIP points for gold and above, unlimited is unlimited.
There really isn't any such thing as free reservation transactions in owners' accounts. We all pay for the reservation transactions we are allocated in our accounts as a part of our program fees or as part of the original purchase price that qualified us for VIP benefits. Thinking of them as being free makes it much easier for them to just gloss over the negative potential consequences of separating the developer and resale points in the same accounts and should be avoided.
 

r4rab

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My account doesn't show RARP at all and i have the same use year as you
@HitchHiker71 I think there may be a bug on non-calendar use years wrt VIP RARP. My UY is Oct-Sep and 100% retail. There is no line for VIP RARP even though I am temp VIPP, permanent VIPG (grandfathered).
 

paxsarah

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There really isn't any such thing as free reservation transactions in owners' accounts. We all pay for the reservation transactions we are allocated in our accounts as a part of our program fees or as part of the original purchase price that qualified us for VIP benefits. Thinking of them as being free makes it much easier for them to just gloss over the negative potential consequences of separating the developer and resale points in the same accounts and should be avoided.
Technically true (and I frequently say the same about the "free" RCI account), but sometimes it's easier to use "free" then write a paragraph. ;) Maybe next time I'll say "allotted" (though I still think most people would understand better if I said "free").
 

troy12n

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@HitchHiker71 I think there may be a bug on non-calendar use years wrt VIP RARP. My UY is Oct-Sep and 100% retail. There is no line for VIP RARP even though I am temp VIPP, permanent VIPG (grandfathered).
I will be honest with you, I don't know if this is something that ever displayed before. My understanding is we have 2 RARP's for VIP use every UY which allows us to book at 11 months, i've never leveraged it, and don't think i've ever actually seen it listed anywhere online
 

markb53

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I am a hybrid VIP owner with 127K resale in the even years. My HKs are are split between developer and resale, with the appropriate amount for my VIPG account listed as though it weren't unlimited HKs in the benefits summary page, unlimited VIP HKs in the points summary page, and 1 resale HK in the even years in the benefits summary and points summary pages. I have more resale points in the odd years and the resale HKs show properly there.
If Wyndham wants to make Hybrid VIP owner and non-VIP owners the same then they should make them the same and break up the accounts for non-VIP Hybrid owners into separate Developer and Resale buckets just like the VIP Hybrid owner. And show the House Keeping in 2 entries for developer and resale. That way it is completely clear what is going on. Otherwise it will appear to some non-VIP Hybrid owners, that they lost a HK for no apparent reason. And by the time they called Owner Care about it they would probably be pretty upset. I think they could avoid much of the upset by being honest instead of underhanded. I think I agree with @paxsarah when she said that Wyndham didn’t think of it at all. So they didn’t advise non VIP owners that the changes might cause some of them to lose HKs. They are trying to keep VIP Hybrid owners happy by offering them some complimentary points due to some potential losses, right. So is seems they do care about the feelings of the VIP Hybrid owners. But not the non-VIP Hybrid owners?
 

r4rab

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I will be honest with you, I don't know if this is something that ever displayed before. My understanding is we have 2 RARP's for VIP use every UY which allows us to book at 11 months, i've never leveraged it, and don't think i've ever actually seen it listed anywhere online
It was never displayed anywhere before but it is something that others are seeing on the new Benefits Summary page. I have not used my RARPs before either, partly because you needed to call in to use them. But with these changes I'm wondering if they will work online. I'm also starting to think I should start using these RARP transactions.
 

Eric B

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But with these changes I'm wondering if they will work online.
They do work online - I booked several for next year without calling in. Not sure if you had to call in before as I hadn't tried earlier.

Edited to add: If you wind up canceling a reservation made with RARP, you do get the RARP back and the allowance on the benefits summary page changes to reflect that.
 

scootr5

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I would call into the dedicated support line and report this issue. This is likely an account specific issue of some kind, and therefore isn't really something I can report back as I would need account specific information to do so - along with a process that can be used to reproduce the issue - and/or a way of identifying the small subset of impacted accounts - and I have neither at this time. :cool:
Understood. Susan in OC has opened a ticket.
 

Cyrus24

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I did my own audit today of reservations after requesting an audit last Friday. I found 3 cases where the reservation shows resale while the underlying transactions show developer. I called back to the dedicated line and shared my findings. The OC took screen shots where she was seeing the exact things I saw. I’m guessing that I’m not the only Hybrid account with the Resale/Developer inconsistency. If I count those 3 reservations as Developer, my resale account balance looks correct.
 

dgalati

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I did my own audit today of reservations after requesting an audit last Friday. I found 3 cases where the reservation shows resale while the underlying transactions show developer. I called back to the dedicated line and shared my findings. The OC took screen shots where she was seeing the exact things I saw. I’m guessing that I’m not the only Hybrid account with the Resale/Developer inconsistency. If I count those 3 reservations as Developer, my resale account balance looks correct.
I wonder how many owners don't catch this discrepancy to Wyndhams favor? I guess if only 50% catch it the other 50% can say shame on themselves for not being more watchful and diligent to the Wyndham math.
 

55plus

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All my resale still show up as developer. I haven't called yet. I'll give them until Friday if it doesn't change.
 
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