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Mid August update (downtime *early* Wednesday night)

dgalati

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I have about $1200 in credits split between Delta and JetBlue for a trip I booked for me and my wife in April 2020. I have no idea how i'm going to use them because the Delta points expire in December, and i'm not sure when the JetBlue credits expire. But JetBlue really has limited destination, so im worried that money is sunk at this point.
Did you use points that were returned or is it a credit voucher for you or your wife only?
 

VacayKat

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There is also a virtual session scheduled for Tuesday (8/17) at 6pm EDT to educate owners about the changes.
Do we think they'll have all the problems fixed by then?..... just throwing that out there!
 

Rolltydr

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Do we think they'll have all the problems fixed by then?..... just throwing that out there!
I haven’t really seen that many problems. I think we’re going to be fine.
 

HitchHiker71

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Do we think they'll have all the problems fixed by then?..... just throwing that out there!

No, but the education session isn’t for troubleshooting problems - it is for education. Any/all questions that anyone posts about specific account problems are likely to be given a generic answer to contact the dedicated helpline - as they should be given that’s not the purpose of the planned education session.


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scootr5

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Same here - Chrome and Safari on iPhone, Chrome on Windows (didn’t get around to firing up a second browser on my laptop).

I guess it’s true what the salespeople have said all along - resale really has no benefits (summary)! :ROFLMAO:
yes, I’ve tried multiple browsers/devices/platforms/OSes along with clearing all caches and cookies, and private browsing.
 

happyhopian

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No one has addressed the obvious question to me. Why do this? I know the answer, which is to stop VIP from using resale points to get benefits but do they really think anyone who is VIP will buy additional developer points to replace what they had in resale? If they do then they truly are stupid. More importantly they have finally reduced the value of the resale points to zero which I think makes the value prop on the purchase even harder to accept when making new sales. Disney does a great job of managing and pushing resale value which makes that purchase a great option - the best on the market for value INHM but also the most expensive and limited usage areas.

I've always respected wyndham and will continue to use my point which are about 1.2 million in developer (though the vast majority are from grandfathered transactions) and the resale points. I'm not sure at this point what I'll do with them. I'm listening to others about using them to hold or book out x period where they otherwise can't be used.

Does anyone know:

Can resale points be moved forward and under what time period?

Can resale points be moved to RCI?

Can resale points be rented out through Wyndham?

Can resale points be used for maint fees and at what rate?

Thanks to everyone for your hard work. I appreciate your efforts! At one time I spent a lot of time on this but life moves on doesn't it :)
 

Eric B

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More importantly they have finally reduced the value of the resale points to zero which I think makes the value prop on the purchase even harder to accept when making new sales.

Several folks have posted that they believe there is continued value in resale points, particularly if they are at a low MF resort. It's never really been market value, of course, and does not compare with the costs for developer points. I am definitely keeping my resale points and am considering adding a few in order to get another resale housekeeping credit and optimize my account since they've kind of stranded the resale points with regard to HKs and RTs. You are definitely right about disincentivizing buying developer points - if I were to add any more developer points, it would not address the issue of limited resale HKs due to some resale EOYs I own, I can only solve that by buying a small resale contract. If they realize that and come up with some package way to buy developer and requalify my resale points, which is possible in some other systems (e.g., Vistana and DRI), that might tempt me, but otherwise I won't be interested. Hope you're reading this, Wyndham - there must be a fair percentage of the 4,000 hybrid owners in a similar position.

Can resale points be moved forward and under what time period?

They can, per the original email and the important information provided on the website. They will allow you to PDF your resale points through the end of December 2021. After that it's as usual (first 3 months of your use year, whatever that is).

Can resale points be moved to RCI?

Can resale points be rented out through Wyndham?

Can resale points be used for maint fees and at what rate?

They can be used in RCI; not sure about the rental process, but I believe all it requires is making a reservation and depositing it with Extra Holidays; they can be converted to MFs through the end of December as well, though I don't know the rate or what the quantity limitation is.
 

OutSkiing

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Regarding the allocation of developer vs resale points on existing reservations Wyndham was pretty good to us for 2021. For all our 2021 upcoming reservations they come through as 'resale' although when I look in transaction history some are split between developer and resale. But that used up all our Resale points for 2021 and left us with a slew of Developer points. I presume when we deposit them into next year they will still be developer points which have maximum value. And assuming they still honor our upgrade requests those reservations are as solid as ever.

Then for reservations beginning in 2022 a lot were taken from the Developer bucket because some were clearly made using ARP from a specific developer CWA contract and I think others were made with VIP RARP 11 months out (though that doesn't show up on the benefits history).

I do see deposit of 4 VIP RARP and one transaction RAPR use and even one credit back of a RARP upon reservation cancelation. But the RARPs don't all show up and we're down to 0 remaining of 4.

Overall not much to complain about.
 

OutSkiing

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Same here. My 900K+ resale all show up as developer points in my VIPP account going forward according to the website. I don't know how this could happen being that resale points are coded differently than developer. This is a dream come true for a mega renters. I assume it'll correct itself once they are done and the smoke settles.
Do you mean the actual points that show up on the Points Summary and Benefits Summary pages? What resorts are those contracts for?
 

55plus

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Do you mean the actual points that show up on the Points Summary and Benefits Summary pages? What resorts are those contracts for?
Old Town Alexandria, Glacier Canyon, Waikiki Beach Walk.
 
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OutSkiing

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Old Town Alexandria, Glacier Canyon, Waikiki Beach Walk.
Wow. I’ve heard that some of the early converted affilliate resorts counted like developer points if purchased in the early days but yours seem like core Wyndham resorts. Looks like a happy mistake.
 

55plus

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Wow. I’ve heard that some of the early converted affilliate resorts counted like developer points if purchased in the early days but yours seem like core Wyndham resorts. Looks like a happy mistake.
If my deeds don't correct themselves in a week or so I'll inform Wyndham of the mistake. It would be wrong of me, basically fraud, not to inform them of their error.
 

troy12n

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Did you use points that were returned or is it a credit voucher for you or your wife only?

In my case they were tickets bought with cash (credit card) in 12/2019 for a trip in 4/2020. Cancelled approximately 3/20/20. They were both turned into future flight credits. Not frequent flier points. These credits have an expiration date. Which has been pushed off a couple times, and very may well be again.

The frustrating part is, I made the reservations for both of us, on my account, paid with one of my CC's, and when they issued credits, they issued them to each of us separately, not all back to me. So now if I want to use them, I have to book separately. Both airlines did this.
 

troy12n

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If my deeds don't correct themselves in a week or so I'll inform Wyndham of the mistake. It would be wrong of me, basically fraud, not to inform them of their error.

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe fraud requires a level of intent. You could be blissfully unaware of the error, in fact your points are working like they always have been... how many points are we talking about here?
 

55plus

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A little over 900K points that are resale, but labeled developer included in with my VIPP on the website.
 

paxsarah

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@HitchHiker71 In case you hadn't run across this one on Facebook, this is a concern. An owner owns 210,000 points and should receive (and has received) 2 reservation transactions and 3 housekeeping credits annually. After the update, he now only has 2 housekeeping for any of his upcoming years. Here's the answer he got after calling Wyndham:
I called owner care and have an update. This is due to the fact that I have a 84,000 developer contract and a 126,000 resale contract. They will no longer combine those, even for housekeeping! Therefore I will only receive 1 per contract now! I’m very upset by how they are handling this! You technically give someone something by showing their allowance for this year and the next 2 years, then take it away without warning! I explained that if I was aware of that I would have put more thought into the 2 reservations I’ve already made for next year! I made those with the expectation to have one more free housekeeping credit that was now taken away! Here’s 3 free…Nope here’s a $159 fee instead!

So this is a person that owns developer and resale contracts, is not VIP, and has now had his developer and resale split for purposes of housekeeping which has shorted him one credit per year (due to the round-down). This seems wrong, does it not? There should be no change, because none of his housekeeping credits depend on VIP benefits. He should get housekeeping credits based on his total points, period. In fact, it's actually a penalty for owning some developer because if he simply owned all resale he'd be getting 3 HK per year. Can you put this on your list to follow up with Wyndham?
 

VacayKat

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@HitchHiker71 In case you hadn't run across this one on Facebook, this is a concern. An owner owns 210,000 points and should receive (and has received) 2 reservation transactions and 3 housekeeping credits annually. After the update, he now only has 2 housekeeping for any of his upcoming years. Here's the answer he got after calling Wyndham:


So this is a person that owns developer and resale contracts, is not VIP, and has now had his developer and resale split for purposes of housekeeping which has shorted him one credit per year (due to the round-down). This seems wrong, does it not? There should be no change, because none of his housekeeping credits depend on VIP benefits. He should get housekeeping credits based on his total points, period. In fact, it's actually a penalty for owning some developer because if he simply owned all resale he'd be getting 3 HK per year. Can you put this on your list to follow up with Wyndham?
This will be a case of wyndham saying their hands are tied, the system won’t allow it. And truth be told- this is why the two types of points should never have been combined into one account by Wyndham if they cared about resale points getting perks they do not deserve. And I’m sure others will say - GOOD! That person was getting something they didn’t deserve and has been freeloading. I see it as a way Wyndham has found to make more money.
 

55plus

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What does the directory state concerning this matter?
 

paxsarah

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What does the directory state concerning this matter?
Technically nothing, because the new housekeeping structure was implemented after the latest directory. The website, however, simply says:
Housekeeping credits are awarded annually or biennially with your points at the start of your Use Year. Like your points, they expire at the end of your Use Year. One housekeeping credit is awarded for every 70,000 points you own.
It makes no distinction between developer and resale points.
 

OutSkiing

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This seems wrong, does it not? There should be no change, because none of his housekeeping credits depend on VIP benefits.
I Agree .. if they don't combine account types before applying the HK and RT credits they will be adversely affecting a lot of small owners .. more than the 5% VIP they intended to.
 

HitchHiker71

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@HitchHiker71 In case you hadn't run across this one on Facebook, this is a concern. An owner owns 210,000 points and should receive (and has received) 2 reservation transactions and 3 housekeeping credits annually. After the update, he now only has 2 housekeeping for any of his upcoming years. Here's the answer he got after calling Wyndham:


So this is a person that owns developer and resale contracts, is not VIP, and has now had his developer and resale split for purposes of housekeeping which has shorted him one credit per year (due to the round-down). This seems wrong, does it not? There should be no change, because none of his housekeeping credits depend on VIP benefits. He should get housekeeping credits based on his total points, period. In fact, it's actually a penalty for owning some developer because if he simply owned all resale he'd be getting 3 HK per year. Can you put this on your list to follow up with Wyndham?

If we look at this pragmatically, what we are seeing, for all accounts regardless of VIP status, is that the HK/RT buckets are calculated separately now for retail and resale points. Undoubtedly this will negatively impact smaller non-VIP hybrid accounts more than larger VIP hybrid accounts - as is the case for this particular owner. But Wyndham isn’t going to change the logic used for all accounts - and that is essentially what the ask would be here. At most we can communicate the concern - but our enhancement would essentially be - please return to the old way of calculating the HK/RT by combining the points buckets - and I don’t think that’s going to happen.


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HitchHiker71

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I Agree .. if they don't combine account types before applying the HK and RT credits they will be adversely affecting a lot of small owners .. more than the 5% VIP they intended to.

It’s less than 1% for VIP owners - it’s roughly 5% for the entirety of resale owners.


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OutSkiing

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Guys, I don't think there is a Wyndham script making big decisions about whether an existing reservation is Resale or Developer at all. I think the decision was made months ago by the Wyndham gremlins when we first make a reservation. For reservations made within the 10 month window, Transaction History has always been split in a peculiar way to the human eye. I believe the algorithm uses points from contracts expiring soonest, then if more points are needed for the reservation it goes to the next contract and so on. Since mine all expire in December, it must have used some other criteria to decide what order to burn the points in. We could never see which contracts the points came from, and still cannot see that today. But the 'CRP Migration' script has gone through and labeled whether they were Resale or Developer.

We just happened to cancel a 162,000 point Austin reservation because there is risk of cancelation due to water damage anyway (we're staying longer in San Antonio instead). The reservation was labeled 'resale' but after canceling it put the points back as 115,000 developer and 47,000 resale. I see that is exactly the way the Transaction History shows they were used back when we made the reservation. Still can't tell which developer and resale contracts they came from but as @HitchHiker71 said there is a little more transparency as to what the gremlins are doing.
 

OutSkiing

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But Wyndham isn’t going to change the logic used for all accounts - and that is essentially what the ask would be here.
I was wondering if these steps could work:
1) combine points from resale + developer
2) apply non-VIP HK and RT credits
3) for developer points only, apply additional VIP credits
 

paxsarah

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If we look at this pragmatically, what we are seeing, for all accounts regardless of VIP status, is that the HK/RT buckets are calculated separately now for retail and resale points. Undoubtedly this will negatively impact smaller non-VIP hybrid accounts more than larger VIP hybrid accounts - as is the case for this particular owner. But Wyndham isn’t going to change the logic used for all accounts - and that is essentially what the ask would be here. At most we can communicate the concern - but our enhancement would essentially be - please return to the old way of calculating the HK/RT by combining the points buckets - and I don’t think that’s going to happen.
So Wyndham planned for this to happen, but didn't notify this subset of owners that there was going to be a potentially costly change to their accounts. VIPs were notified in advance and offered complimentary points next use year as compensation, but retail/resale non-VIPs were not notified and not offered any compensation?

Also, how does this comport with the language regarding housekeeping? "Housekeeping credits are awarded annually or biennially with your points at the start of your Use Year. Like your points, they expire at the end of your Use Year. One housekeeping credit is awarded for every 70,000 points you own." When will they be changing the last sentence to reflect this new reality?

All questions for Wyndham.
 
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