Mid August update (downtime *early* Wednesday night)

[paxsarah]

I was wondering if these steps could work:
1) combine points from resale + developer
2) apply non-VIP HK and RT credits
3) for developer points only, apply additional VIP credits

This wouldn't provide the correct amount for VIP owners. For VIP owners, each bucket is calculated separately and they have two completely separate pools of HK credits, one for developer and one for resale. They can't cross over. It does make sense to calculate them completely separately for VIPs.

For non-VIPs, there is already different logic in how their account is displayed. Further upthread, a resale/retail non-VIP owner shared that he does not have the drop-down to choose between booking with resale or developer points. So there's already logic hiding that capability (a capability that only resale/retail VIPs need). So I don't know why there can't be logic to also calculate the housekeeping and reservation transactions properly for non-VIPs, which is simply to add together all points and then calculate the HK and RT based on the total.

They will need to rewrite the website and directory to account for this change, if it is an intentional change. I'm one of the first to say that Wyndham can make changes at any time, but they do need to be documented and it does seem strange that this particular item has been completely unmentioned by them up to this point.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I Agree .. if they don't combine account types before applying the HK and RT credits they will be adversely affecting a lot of small owners .. more than the 5% VIP they intended to.

With the numbers that low, I would suggest they round up not down. Err on the side of making people happy. Same idea as GC's, except that algorithm lacks consistency today. So perhaps I should say, consistently round up.

 

[VacayKat]

With the numbers that low, I would suggest they round up not down. Err on the side of making people happy. Same idea as GC's, except that algorithm lacks consistency today. So perhaps I should say, consistently round up.

Oh, you know now they will start rounding down for GC too - can’t say things like that out loud, the evil Wyndham gremlins trolling the boards will get crazier ideas than ever!!!!!!

 

[OutSkiing]

With the numbers that low, I would suggest they round up not down. Err on the side of making people happy. Same idea as GC's, except that algorithm lacks consistency today. So perhaps I should say, consistently round up.

Thats a great idea. Actually rounding to the nearest whole number would work without giving away the farm in this example .. 126000 / 70000 = 1.8 which is above 1.5 so rounds up to 2. 84000 / 70000 = 1.2 which is below 1.5 so rounds down to 1. And 2 + 1 still equals 3.

 

[HitchHiker71]

With the numbers that low, I would suggest they round up not down. Err on the side of making people happy. Same idea as GC's, except that algorithm lacks consistency today. So perhaps I should say, consistently round up.

That’s our enhancement request right there. Good thinking. For hybrid non-VIP accounts - if over the 75% threshold toward the next level up - round up to facilitate a better owner experience.


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[VacayKat]

That’s our enhancement request right there. Good thinking. For hybrid non-VIP accounts - if over the 75% threshold toward the next level up - round up to facilitate a better owner experience.


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How about for every hybrid account- all resale points should be treated equivalently.

 

[paxsarah]

Or it’s also possible that if they’re capable of rounding up instead of down, they’re also capable of simply adding resale and retail together for non-VIPs and using that number to calculate housekeeping and RTs. Which would have the added effect of producing the expected value 100% of the time.

 

[55plus]

How about for every hybrid account- all resale points should be treated equivalently.

That would mainly benefit mega renters, which would hurt the majority of owners of the restrictions we're eased.

 

[Eric B]

That’s our enhancement request right there. Good thinking. For hybrid non-VIP accounts - if over the 75% threshold toward the next level up - round up to facilitate a better owner experience.


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An alternative enhancement request that I believe would be fairer to both hybrid VIP and non-VIP accounts would be to include developer points borrowed to resale transactions in the determination of resale HKs/RTs while removing them from the determination of developer HKs/RTs. It would be a bit more complicated to implement because it would result in changes to the allocations during the year and might be more appropriate to implement as a policy-level allowance for Owner Care to deal with on the relatively few affected accounts. The way things are implemented without making that allowance, developer points are essentially stripped of the HKs/RTs that their program fees pay for when combined with resale points. They might figure that out when they try to right out what the program guidelines are in plain English, but really should have thought of it before implementing. (I know, I know, that would benefit the megarenter owners, blah, blah, blah, ... but it's really the only fair way to set things up to give all owners the HKs/RTs they have paid for.)

 

[markb53]

For non-VIPs, there is already different logic in how their account is displayed. Further upthread, a resale/retail non-VIP owner shared that he does not have the drop-down to choose between booking with resale or developer points. So there's already logic hiding that capability (a capability that only resale/retail VIPs need). So I don't know why there can't be logic to also calculate the housekeeping and reservation transactions properly for non-VIPs, which is simply to add together all points and then calculate the HK and RT based on the total.

They will need to rewrite the website and directory to account for this change, if it is an intentional change. I'm one of the first to say that Wyndham can make changes at any time, but they do need to be documented and it does seem strange that this particular item has been completely unmentioned by them up to this point.

I’m the guy from unthread. In my case the numbers add up the same whether they get added up with the contracts combined or separated. My resale contract is 210k EOY which gets exactly 3 HK. If I had 200K EOY I would have gotten 2 for that contract. Which would have brought my total down to 4HK for every even year instead of 5. I have 182K developer and 210 EOY-E resale. So 2 every Odd year and 5 every even year.
The interesting thing is in the email I received announcing the change, there is no mention at all about breaking up my contracts into separate buckets. It only mentions the new benefit summery and how it will make it easier to see how my points are being used. Seems like if they were going to make a change that reduced an owners ability to travel they should have mentions that in the email also. I thought this whole change was about doing something about the mega-renters. I guess that is not the only thing this is about. Even more good reason not to buy any points direct from Wyndham, if you don’t plan to be VIP down the road.

 

[markb53]

For VIP owner you are currently seeing in your account that the HKs are assigned separately, right. I mean if you are VIPG with 126K resale, You will see what ever HK you get for the VIPG account and then you will see the resale account with 1 HK for the 126K resale. I’m I correct on that.
As a non-VIP I don’t see that. My HKs just show as combined. I think if Wyndham wanted to do it this way, they should have broken up all Hybrid accounts not just VIPs and displayed them separated on your account page. With the way they did you you have no idea what happened and you have to call owner care to find out

 

[HitchHiker71]

How about for every hybrid account- all resale points should be treated equivalently.

Isn’t this the case already today? How are they different?


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[paxsarah]

Isn’t this the case already today? How are they different?

This was in response to the suggestion that for non-VIP hybrid accounts that resale HKs be rounded up.

 

[paxsarah]

Honestly, if I had to guess at the source of this problem it's that someone thought it would be easiest to code HKs the same for hybrid VIPs and non-VIPs, and nobody checked or thought of the possibility that it would reduce the number of HKs and/or RTs for some of the non-VIP hybrid accounts because of rounding. That's why Wyndham didn't mention this part of the change in any of its communications so far, that's why the non-VIP hybrid accounts don't allow choosing between resale and developer points for reservations. It was a mistake. But it does need to be fixed. And I'm not sure why we need to make sure that the fix needs to also work for VIP hybrid accounts because it never really will. Leave them alone, fix the non-VIPs.

 

[markb53]

For the VIPs out there, Do me a favor, look at your benefit summary for when they add the HK to your account are they split up by Developer and Resale or are they all together like mine.

 

[VacayKat]

That would mainly benefit mega renters, which would hurt the majority of owners of the restrictions we're eased.

Well i guess then no one should benefit.

If that is really the approach you endorse - please explain to folks like me who would be similarly affected why you believe my resale points should not be treated in the same way? Why do you believe I should be punished while someone else who did not give wyndham bags and bags of cash should profit?

I’m really tired of the rhetoric that all VIP owners should be screwed over to keep megarenters from doing <insert you name it, it’s all been placed at their feet here>. Do you not have any compassion for the people that are NOT these renters who are being harmed?

 

[VacayKat]

For the VIPs out there, Do me a favor, look at your benefit summary for when they add the HK to your account are they split up by Developer and Resale or are they all together like mine.

Well here’s the kicker, I supposedly have unlimited HK, but they added a number (which reflects what i would get if it was mot unlimited) with my points. It is all combined. But broken out in the summary at the top. Actually, looked again - those transactions are no longer in my history. No points added are, so can not confirm or deny they are the same

 

[VacayKat]

Isn’t this the case already today? How are they different?


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I am saying if they round up for nonVIP then they need to round up for VIP. The proposed solution would make them treated unequivalently.

 

[Eric B]

I am saying if they round up for nonVIP then they need to round up for VIP. The proposed solution would make them treated unequivalently.

There's an awful lot to be said in favor of Wyndham deciding what the policy for HKs, RTs, GCs, etc., should be for everyone that pays for them in their program fees, then implementing that policy across the board uniformly with the VIP benefits added on top of that. Doing it any other way wouldn't be equitable and would be a great argument against buying anything more to achieve VIP status - as it is the implementation disadvantages hybrid VIP owners for being hybrid owners and it might not be in Wyndham's self-interest to also disadvantage them on the basis of being VIPs as well.

 

[VacayKat]

There's an awful lot to be said in favor of Wyndham deciding what the policy for HKs, RTs, GCs, etc., should be for everyone that pays for them in their program fees, then implementing that policy across the board uniformly with the VIP benefits added on top of that. Doing it any other way wouldn't be equitable and would be a great argument against buying anything more to achieve VIP status - as it is the implementation disadvantages hybrid VIP owners for being hybrid owners and it might not be in Wyndham's self-interest to also disadvantage them on the basis of being VIPs as well.

Also there is the simple fact that resale points used by a VIP have NONE of their VIP perks attached, so if it harms a smaller owner, it likely does the same harm to a VIP, just seems less offensive because when folks are bigger it appears they have more and charging them the $159 HK fee is more palatable.

Also in the case cited - if resale and developer combine for a nonVIP reservation do the developer points get stripped of their developer rights in the same way VIP do? If so, then the HK situation might be worse than first appears. @HitchHiker71 probably worth adding this to the question list.

 

[paxsarah]

Also in the case cited - if resale and developer combine for a nonVIP reservation do the developer points get stripped of their developer rights in the same way VIP do? If so, then the HK situation might be worse than first appears. @HitchHiker71 probably worth adding this to the question list.

There are no developer rights for regular reservations online for Club Wyndham resorts. The difference between developer and resale for non-VIPs is Club Pass (call only), Plus Partners (call only), and RCI nightly stays and Points inventory (handled on the RCI side - I presume turned on at the account level, because I don't think RCI knows what points are coming over in deposits). [EDIT: and Wyndham Rewards conversion - call.] There is nothing in a regular booking that makes a difference whether it is developer or resale - which is exactly why "if resale and developer combine for a nonVIP reservation" isn't even a question - they do, because they are otherwise not separated in any way in a non-VIP account. They just have total points to book with. There's no reason to separate them. The problem is, underneath the HK (and presumably the RT) are being calculated separately on each bucket and added together, which can lead to an owner being shorted an HK depending on the size of each of their contracts. Although on the surface, the HK appear as a single total for the account, as do the points.

 

[VacayKat]

A

There are no developer rights for regular reservations online for Club Wyndham resorts. The difference between developer and resale for non-VIPs is Club Pass (call only), Plus Partners (call only), and RCI nightly stays and Points inventory (handled on the RCI side - I presume turned on at the account level, because I don't think RCI knows what points are coming over in deposits). There is nothing in a regular booking that makes a difference whether it is developer or resale - which is exactly why "if resale and developer combine for a nonVIP reservation" isn't even a question - they do, because they are otherwise not separated in any way in a non-VIP account. They just have total points to book with. There's no reason to separate them. The problem is, underneath the HK (and presumably the RT) are being calculated separately on each bucket and added together, which can lead to an owner being shorted an HK depending on the size of each of their contracts. Although on the surface, the HK appear as a single total for the account, as do the points.

As in, if developer and resale are being combined, resale HK apply NOT developer. Unless you’re saying nonVIP are already being treated differently and they still have one big bucket and aren’t being forced to choose where their points come from for different reservations. If so, that’s special.

 

[HitchHiker71]

For the VIPs out there, Do me a favor, look at your benefit summary for when they add the HK to your account are they split up by Developer and Resale or are they all together like mine.

The developer and resale buckets are separated out now - and benefits are calculated based upon the separate buckets by design. For VIP hybrid owners, you'll see both buckets in the Benefits Summary area as follows:

On the Points Summary page, we currently see what our VIP benefit entitlements, which in my case as a grandfathered VIPG I see Unlimited:

For non-VIP hybrid owners - you won't see the separate buckets in your Benefits Summary area since your booking privileges are the same whether using developer or resale points (same when making reservations). Only VIP owners would see the separate buckets since our reservation privileges are different when using developer points (based upon the VIP tier).

The calculation is undoubtedly the same for all accounts. The calculation should be standardized across all accounts by design IMHO. That's obviously what Wyndham is doing - but in the case of non-VIP hybrid owners it appears this wasn't communicated. For example, using my own VIP hybrid account as an example, my total annual points is 1,406,500 points. So using the total amount of points (without VIP unlimited HK benefits), I'd be entitled to a total of 20 HK credits. Under the new system, my resale bucket shows as 9, and my developer bucket shows as 10. So I get one less, because it's calculating based upon the separate buckets. In my case, I don't really care that much because I have unlimited HK credits with my developer points, where I'm likely to use my points within the 60 day discount window and burn up more HK credits as a result.

We have already escalated this issue via Richelle to Wyndham as of this morning - no response back yet - but I suspect the answer we get back will be something similar to what I've outlined above - that the HKs are being calculated within each bucket separately - whether those buckets can be seen by the account owner or not. We'll keep an eye on this item moving forward and provide updates when appropriate. In the interim - please ensure you call into the dedicated support line to express your grievance - and use the website feedback mechanism to report the same issue. The more negative feedback Wyndham receives - the more likely they are to respond to the reported problem.

 

[paxsarah]

A

As in, if developer and resale are being combined, resale HK apply NOT developer.

In a non-VIP combined account, there are no resale or developer HK available for the owner when booking, because there are no resale or developer points available to the owner when booking. Unless Wyndham puts a policy change in writing like it did for VIPs, this is how HK should be calculated for non-VIP combined owners: "One housekeeping credit is awarded for every 70,000 points you own." Period. There is no reason to calculate them separately because there is no reason (nor ability) to use them separately.

 

[paxsarah]

The calculation should be standardized across all accounts by design IMHO.

Why though, if it produces the wrong number for certain owners? If they standardized it and it produces the wrong result, then they did it wrong.

EDIT: For instance, if it's possible to display on the benefits summary the calculated number of housekeeping credits on your VIP account, but on the overall dashboard still correctly show (and implement) unlimited HK, then it's certainly possible to correctly show and implement the correct number of HK on the dashboard for a non-VIP.