Marriott points and internal exchange program - the latest info

[PerryM]

There is a difference between knowing that you will take a loss when you sell your timeshare and not being able to sell your timeshare. Some of us can say that we consider more important the lifestyle value of our purchases, less important the financial value upon reselling (especially as we understand MVCI does not make any guarantee as to that value.) None of us can say with certainty that any and every internal exchange system that MVCI may develop and/or implement will result in every MVCI purchase being worthless.

I think that we all worry about saddling our heirs with unwanted financial burdens, and we all hope that we have been or will be able to make provisions for whatever may occur after we're gone.

I think the next time I sit through a timeshare sales presentation and the salesrep gets to the part "That deed allows you to pass your timeshare to your heirs" I'm going to jump in and say:

"I don't want to presume for a second that our children want to be saddled with a lifetime of maintenance fees - I want to instruct my executor to sell all the timeshares - just how much can I get in cash for the week I'm about to buy?"

Oh I can't wait for the squirming to start - "Oh you will live to be 100", or "The kids will love your timeshare" or "The kids will have to pay taxes on the resale amount - that just diminishes your estate".

Yep, I'm going to spring this on the next salesrep

 

[davidvel]

Yes, you may had initialed something related to that topic at the end of the sale, but that's just another data point showing the pitch was not as up-front as you seem to claim all the time, IMO..

Have you guys been reading the previous posts where SueDon and I have been showing the language in the purchase documents? In those documents, they specifically state that no representation of resale value has been made. I can't be any more clear so yes, i'm serious.

I've been tempted to sit through a sales presentation with a tape recorder running and my cell phone browser open and fact checking taking place in real time. But once you introduce anything into that sales gallery that doesn't belong there the salesreps don't act normal they act like lawyers on TV - CYA.

The issue that others and I have tried to raise is that we believe it is an unfair and unethical trade practice for a sales person to tell you something during a sales pitch that is directly contradicted (and in fact disclaimed) in the ultimate contract they will make you sign. For example I and many others have been shown the II Resort Directory (or online in II) and being told "This is a RED week with II. You can trade this summer week in the desert for a week in Hawaii," among other representations as to trading potential. However, as we know the contract says you acknowledge that no statements were made as to trading potential, and there is no guarantee about the ongoing availability of II or any other trading opportunity. So, the salesperson told you this but you have to falsely “acknowledge” that such statements were NOT made...

People think this is unfair, whether they make misstatements to everyone or not. Anyone who has been involved in sales knows all these tricks. Car salesmen use it, and in almost every area of sales, but his does not make it right. (AND YES, I agree that its what is in the contract that ultimately governs unless you can prove a fraud case.)

A great way to deal with this in any sales transaction is to bring a pad of paper and write down each great "benefit" the sales person touts to you, one line each. Then at the end of the presentation when they say "What will it take to get you into this car today?" Or, “What do I need to do to get you to buy this timeshare today?” you state:

"Before we get into details, please initial each paragraph of the benefits you spent the last 90 minutes telling me about, and write at the bottom: "The buyer will receive each of the above benefits notwithstanding any other term in the contract or other disclosure," and please have your manager sign it. Then we will talk turkey...” After the expletives from the sales person you can pick up your gift.

[Alternative to cut the 90 minutes down to about 15-20: At the beginning of the presentation, show salesperson your notepad and state, “I am taking down what you tell me the benefits are and will ask you and your sales manager to initial them at the end of your presentation, before we discuss purchasing.” Pick up gift.]

 

[SueDonJ]

The issue that others and I have tried to raise is that we believe it is an unfair and unethical trade practice for a sales person to tell you something during a sales pitch that is directly contradicted (and in fact disclaimed) in the ultimate contract they will make you sign. For example I and many others have been shown the II Resort Directory (or online in II) and being told "This is a RED week with II. You can trade this summer week in the desert for a week in Hawaii," among other representations as to trading potential. However, as we know the contract says you acknowledge that no statements were made as to trading potential, and there is no guarantee about the ongoing availability of II or any other trading opportunity. So, the salesperson told you this but you have to falsely “acknowledge” that such statements were NOT made...

People think this is unfair, whether they make misstatements to everyone or not. Anyone who has been involved in sales knows all these tricks. Car salesmen use it, and in almost every area of sales, but his does not make it right. (AND YES, I agree that its what is in the contract that ultimately governs unless you can prove a fraud case.)

A great way to deal with this in any sales transaction is to bring a pad of paper and write down each great "benefit" the sales person touts to you, one line each. Then at the end of the presentation when they say "What will it take to get you into this car today?" Or, “What do I need to do to get you to buy this timeshare today?” you state:

"Before we get into details, please initial each paragraph of the benefits you spent the last 90 minutes telling me about, and write at the bottom: "The buyer will receive each of the above benefits notwithstanding any other term in the contract or other disclosure," and please have your manager sign it. Then we will talk turkey...” After the expletives from the sales person you can pick up your gift.

[Alternative to cut the 90 minutes down to about 15-20: At the beginning of the presentation, show salesperson your notepad and state, “I am taking down what you tell me the benefits are and will ask you and your sales manager to initial them at the end of your presentation, before we discuss purchasing.” Pick up gift.]

Nothing to disagree with here - deceptive sales tactics should not be tolerated by MVCI or purchasers. Those ideas of tape recordings and telling the salesperson that you will be asking them to validate their words are good ideas - and the more folks use them or similar demands, the less deceptive practices any of us would experience.

But at some point, Buyer Beware comes into play. The required rescission period for developer purchases was legislated to protect against the deceptions we're discussing, but the responsibility for reviewing the ownership documents in a timely fashion rests on the purchaser. If you know you have a certain period of time to rescind the contract, doesn't it follow that you know you will be bound to the terms of that contract if you don't rescind?

 

[PerryM]

I know who was the first timeshare salesrep...

The issue that others and I have tried to raise is that we believe it is an unfair and unethical trade practice for a sales person to tell you something during a sales pitch that is directly contradicted (and in fact disclaimed) in the ultimate contract they will make you sign. For example I and many others have been shown the II Resort Directory (or online in II) and being told "This is a RED week with II. You can trade this summer week in the desert for a week in Hawaii," among other representations as to trading potential. However, as we know the contract says you acknowledge that no statements were made as to trading potential, and there is no guarantee about the ongoing availability of II or any other trading opportunity. So, the salesperson told you this but you have to falsely “acknowledge” that such statements were NOT made...

People think this is unfair, whether they make misstatements to everyone or not. Anyone who has been involved in sales knows all these tricks. Car salesmen use it, and in almost every area of sales, but his does not make it right. (AND YES, I agree that its what is in the contract that ultimately governs unless you can prove a fraud case.)

A great way to deal with this in any sales transaction is to bring a pad of paper and write down each great "benefit" the sales person touts to you, one line each. Then at the end of the presentation when they say "What will it take to get you into this car today?" Or, “What do I need to do to get you to buy this timeshare today?” you state:

"Before we get into details, please initial each paragraph of the benefits you spent the last 90 minutes telling me about, and write at the bottom: "The buyer will receive each of the above benefits notwithstanding any other term in the contract or other disclosure," and please have your manager sign it. Then we will talk turkey...” After the expletives from the sales person you can pick up your gift.

[Alternative to cut the 90 minutes down to about 15-20: At the beginning of the presentation, show salesperson your notepad and state, “I am taking down what you tell me the benefits are and will ask you and your sales manager to initial them at the end of your presentation, before we discuss purchasing.” Pick up gift.]

Ahhh, its fun to dream.

We have been "secret shoppers" for Bass Pro Shops twice now for the BlueGreen timeshares sold there. RCI (yes that RCI) has a division where they offer the service to ANY developer. Marriott should use this service and check on what their salesreps are saying.

We had to buy the 3 nite, 2 day package and sign all the paperwork at the store. We were reimbursed by RCI later and paid handsomely to be secret shoppers.

All this bilge can be easily addressed by the developers if they wanted - they want to play Sergeant Schultz of Hogan's Heros:

"I see nothing"

Sergeant Schultz was the first timeshare salesrep....

 

[SueDonJ]

... We have been "secret shoppers" for Bass Pro Shops twice now for the BlueGreen timeshares sold there.

Bass Pro Shops sells TIMESHARES?!?! Geeze, I thought Christmas Tree Shops had the most diverse product offerings out there ...

 

[Dean]

Are you serious? :hysterical:

I've never had a Marriott salesperson come out and say that what they were proposing to sell me would in the end have no resale value and essentially be worthless. I'd dare say that that is a statement nobody has ever heard from a Marriott salesperson because it would be sales suicide for them to say anything like that. When asked directly what the potential resale value would be (I know b/c I've asked this question many times to Marriott salespeople), they spin it and flip the question around to something like, "Consider it an investment in your families future vacations" or "Your buying your future vacations in todays dollars rather than tomorrows dollar" etc etc.

They also like to hype that Marriott will sell your week for you if you needed to sell it and they DO say that Marriott's prices are always INCREASING. They neglect to mention the 40% commission and that Marriott will really only take back premium weeks to sell and they won't bother with a bronze or silver week.

The comment was made about purchases and not tours. For purchases this is indeed correct and the buyer signed that this was the case and were given the legal documents verifying the same. That's not to excuse lies but the written and signed documentation will win in every case unless you can prove that other promises were indeed made. Proof is tough since family and friends are usually not reliable witness in such a situation. You need video, something written by the seller, or similar.

One more thing- as Sue and others have pointed out, the majority of direct purchasers aren't "uninformed idiots." Clearly, many of them made an informed decision BUT I do agree that I don't think most were fully informed.

There are a group that are an exception but I think it's fair to say that the majority of direct buyers, likely OVER 90%, are not truly well informed and are often making an impulse buy. If you exclude those that already own timeshares and don't visit TUG or a similar site before or during their cancelation period, that number likely approaches 100%.

 

[SueDonJ]

... There are a group that are an exception but I think it's fair to say that the majority of direct buyers, likely OVER 90%, are not truly well informed and are often making an impulse buy. If you exclude those that already own timeshares and don't visit TUG or a similar site before or during their cancelation period, that number likely approaches 100%.

You're probably correct, but man alive, it floors me that folks will make such a significant purchase without putting in the little bit of effort that it takes to understand exactly what they're buying. You sure are shattering my illusions.

 

[Dean]

Marriott has made it clear, in 3 years of 24/7 pushing the rumor of a Marriott Internal Exchange System, that they welcome a lively debate on their rumor.

Why else would Marriott push the same rumor for 3 years?

We are simply taking our knowledge of other Point systems and making a best effort guess as to what Marriott will do.

We know 5 facts that Marriott has shared with us:

• The new exchange system will hurt resale owners
  
• The new exchange system will be for Marriott only sold weeks
  
• The new exchange system will depress resale prices - don't buy resale
  
• The new exchange system will leave out 3,000 other timeshare resorts so II membership must be used outside of the new system
  
• The new exchange system will be Points oriented and there is great doubt as to the ability to make an exchange versus II

Beyond that Marriott gives us little guidance.

Hey, its Marriott's rumor they know folks will talk....

Marriott has only itself to blame - it can just shut its mouth and stop pushing the rumor.

Perry, as I've already pointed out, you are dramatically exaggerating the rumors and posting your interpretations as facts. It has not been 3 years of 24/7 rumors about this, that is simply incorrect. There are no facts about a new system, only rumors and facts about rumors. To say otherwise is disingenuous at best. We don't know what will happen if anything and we don't know what the affects will be though we can guess depending on given scenarios. I have no problem discussing what we think might happen and what we think the affects will be. NONE of this is fact. And even if we knew the current and exact Marriott plan now it could change or never happen going forward. Unfortunately your misrepresentation lessens the effectiveness of your other opinions.

 

[Dean]

You're probably correct, but man alive, it floors me that folks will make such a significant purchase without putting in the little bit of effort that it takes to understand exactly what they're buying. You sure are shattering my illusions.

Even in todays internet age, impulse purchase (car, timeshare, etc) are still rampant. This is true even for very intelligent and well informed people otherwise. Even when they are informed, some people simply can't bring themselves to buy resale even when getting no benefit retail and paying many thousands more $$$. I give you DVC's SSR as an example.

 

[PerryM]

Rumors say...

Perry, as I've already pointed out, you are dramatically exaggerating the rumors and posting your interpretations as facts. It has not been 3 years of 24/7 rumors about this, that is simply incorrect. There are no facts about a new system, only rumors and facts about rumors. To say otherwise is disingenuous at best. We don't know what will happen if anything and we don't know what the affects will be though we can guess depending on given scenarios. I have no problem discussing what we think might happen and what we think the affects will be. NONE of this is fact. And even if we knew the current and exact Marriott plan now it could change or never happen going forward. Unfortunately your misrepresentation lessens the effectiveness of your other opinions.

All I can do is report here what has happened during our last 5 Marriott sales presentations - Marriott's rumor reverberated through 5 different Marriott salesreps who basically said the same thing; Marriott has declared war against their owners who decide to sell their timeshare outside of Marriott's repurchase, resale, and closing services.

Let's not forget that Marriott is the one pushing this rumor and they invite all kinds of rumors in return.

That's what I'm reporting, my rumor to a rumor... facts are missing from all points of view. This is exactly what Marriott wants....

 

[Dean]

All I can do is report here what has happened during our last 5 Marriott sales presentations - Marriott's rumor reverberated through 5 different Marriott salesreps who basically said the same thing; Marriott has declared war against their owners who decide to sell their timeshare outside of Marriott's repurchase, resale, and closing services.

Let's not forget that Marriott is the one pushing this rumor and they invite all kinds of rumors in return.

That's what I'm reporting, my rumor to a rumor... facts are missing from all points of view. This is exactly what Marriott wants....

Reporting what they tell you is fair, reporting what you consistently see others are stating is somewhat risky but fair to a degree. But that is not 3 yrs of 24/7 rumors, that was my point, in part. Marriott is not pushing this rumor. We have an internal source that gave Dave some info and we have salespeople hype that usually means nothing anyway, even with Marriott over the years. Other than reporting what the rumors say, there are essentially no other facts. And any interpretation on a given scenario is not fact either no matter how likely it is to be true in the end.

This may truly end up exactly as you state in every way, we simply don't know. I for one, doubt the worst case scenarios are likely but it may indeed be negative for many of us. And we get to discuss it a few more times over the next couple of years.

Regardless, thanks for not taking my comments too personally, I struggled with the words to say what I wanted but not be any more personal than required to say what I felt I needed to.

 

[SueDonJ]

Even in todays internet age, impulse purchase (car, timeshare, etc) are still rampant. This is true even for very intelligent and well informed people otherwise. Even when they are informed, some people simply can't bring themselves to buy resale even when getting no benefit retail and paying many thousands more $$$. I give you DVC's SSR as an example.

That's one purchase, DVC SSR or OKW even, that I would be comfortable making resale, because there is a ton of inventory and during all the years that I've been reading the disboards, there has never been any slight hint that DVC may eventually try to distinguish between resale and developer.

 

[sdtugger]

Trading System vs. Reservation System

I've done some reading on the Marriott Asia points system (that also includes Hawaii and Las Vegas) and I'm troubled by the potential use of that system for a new Marriott point system.

If I undersand correctly, the Asia system is a trading AND reservation system. Frankly, I'm not sure how that works in Hawaii and Vegas where most of the units are held as week units. But, here is the bottom line for me (Marriott if you are reading please pay close attention): You can play with the trading system all you want. I may not like it, but not much I can do about it. But, do not mess with my reservation rights!! If I (and many others just like me) find that I can't reserve the prime weeks that I could reserve in the past because they've all been taken by some new hybrid points system, there will be trouble. I know I'm dreaming that they are reading this, but it is cathartic . . .

 

[m61376]

You're probably correct, but man alive, it floors me that folks will make such a significant purchase without putting in the little bit of effort that it takes to understand exactly what they're buying. You sure are shattering my illusions.

Think about your own friends, if any of them are owners. Do you consider any of them well informed? I personally know and am also friends with several owners, some multiple week owners, who are all highly educated, professionally successful people. Some of the purchases were vacation impulse buys, some weren't, but not one is truly cognizant of either fully utilizing their purchases or the limitations of the system.

I think the bottom line is that life intervenes. For many of us here, this is a hobby and/or obsession , but most people don't want to bother putting that much thought into vacation planning and thus largely ignore the details of purchasing and ownership. We forget that people here on Tug are not the norm (and maybe not normal either ).

 

[davidvel]

I've done some reading on the Marriott Asia points system (that also includes Hawaii and Las Vegas) and I'm troubled by the potential use of that system for a new Marriott point system.

If I undersand correctly, the Asia system is a trading AND reservation system. Frankly, I'm not sure how that works in Hawaii and Vegas where most of the units are held as week units. But, here is the bottom line for me (Marriott if you are reading please pay close attention): You can play with the trading system all you want. I may not like it, but not much I can do about it. But, do not mess with my reservation rights!! If I (and many others just like me) find that I can't reserve the prime weeks that I could reserve in the past because they've all been taken by some new hybrid points system, there will be trouble. I know I'm dreaming that they are reading this, but it is cathartic . . .

Absolutely a real, known concern about the "new system."

They cannot manipulate the system so that they automatically reserve the week you will deposit into their points system, or othewise give any priority ahead of non-participants. . . . If Marriott is not completely transparent here, they (and each resort's HOA) will face litigation.

 

[Dean]

That's one purchase, DVC SSR or OKW even, that I would be comfortable making resale, because there is a ton of inventory and during all the years that I've been reading the disboards, there has never been any slight hint that DVC may eventually try to distinguish between resale and developer.

But how many times have you heard that someone bought retail because they were more comfortable. Or worse, that financing was easy.

If I undersand correctly, the Asia system is a trading AND reservation system. Frankly, I'm not sure how that works in Hawaii and Vegas where most of the units are held as week units. But, here is the bottom line for me (Marriott if you are reading please pay close attention): You can play with the trading system all you want. I may not like it, but not much I can do about it. But, do not mess with my reservation rights!! If I (and many others just like me) find that I can't reserve the prime weeks that I could reserve in the past because they've all been taken by some new hybrid points system, there will be trouble. I know I'm dreaming that they are reading this, but it is cathartic . . .

I won't venture to say for sure how they do it because I am not totally certain. However, there are several ways to approach such a situation to have points be everything. For an all points resort, it's easy, you just decide what the rules will be and how you use the points. For a resort that has both weeks and points, you have several options and decisions. You have to decide how the weeks are proportioned as well as the reservation system. You can essentially convert the weeks that are in points to fixed weeks based on the deed or you can take the total number and spread out over the given season. One of the better ways to allow an all points system to reserve the underlying week is to give a delay from when the weeks reservation system starts until the points system starts, that's problematic for a floating weeks system. If you take your week, you don't get points but you have to take the whole week. Since the weeks and points inventory is held separately, the delay doesn't hurt you as a points or weeks member. However, it is more complicated with a floating weeks system, esp one with a longer season like HI. Now if you don't hold the inventory separately or have a way to separate them that is inherently unfair, that can be a real problem for one side or the other. To me the question of how they will proportion the division of which weeks go to which side is the major issue. Take Grande Ocean for example, it has a 10 week Platinum season. Say 50% of plat owners convert, the most fair way to proportion would be half of the units for each week or as close as they can approximate it. If points got 24-29 & weeks 30-34 that would be an inherently unfair situations, IMO.

 

[m61376]

I've done some reading on the Marriott Asia points system (that also includes Hawaii and Las Vegas) and I'm troubled by the potential use of that system for a new Marriott point system.

If I undersand correctly, the Asia system is a trading AND reservation system. Frankly, I'm not sure how that works in Hawaii and Vegas where most of the units are held as week units. But, here is the bottom line for me (Marriott if you are reading please pay close attention): You can play with the trading system all you want. I may not like it, but not much I can do about it. But, do not mess with my reservation rights!! If I (and many others just like me) find that I can't reserve the prime weeks that I could reserve in the past because they've all been taken by some new hybrid points system, there will be trouble. I know I'm dreaming that they are reading this, but it is cathartic . . .

I also have qualms about that system, which is why I have referenced that thread earlier. I think there stands to be a lot of losers IF a similar system is enacted and, from what I've been told, the system being developed will have preferred resorts which will be higher valued, presumably with higher point values although this was not detailed. What I heard was consistent with the other program at least in rough form. I fear that there will be a lot of very unhappy Platinum owners at very nice but perhaps not what Marriott considers their Category 7 resorts in the MR program and owners of lesser season weeks even more discontented and possibly disenchanted.

That said, from my understanding is that Marriott can only control the portion of weeks in the program, so that, for argument's sake, if 25% of owners convert to points, then 25% of each eligible resort/week/view/size designation would be available for reservations in that program. Marriott cannot commandeer a disproportionate amount of inventory in any program. There may ultimately be more prime week availability under a points reservation system, because Marriott may control which weeks get deposited into II for external exchanges; in Starwood, for example, owners at mandatory resorts get to reserve weeks for use but Starwood decides which weeks and even which resorts to deposit for trading purposes. Thus, for example, there may be more 4th of July weeks available for personal use or for renting but the days of reserving those weeks to maximize trade value may be gone.

Of course, since they control the inventory we also have to rely on their integrity in managing and policing the system, but hopefully that will be a non issue.

 

[JimIg23]

Is there a Marriott site that explains the Asia point system?

 

[hotcoffee]

Originally Posted by Clemson Fan
Are you serious?

"I've never had a Marriott salesperson come out and say that what they were proposing to sell me would in the end have no resale value and essentially be worthless. I'd dare say that that is a statement nobody has ever heard from a Marriott salesperson because it would be sales suicide for them to say anything like that. When asked directly what the potential resale value would be (I know b/c I've asked this question many times to Marriott salespeople), they spin it and flip the question around to something like, "Consider it an investment in your families future vacations" or "Your buying your future vacations in todays dollars rather than tomorrows dollar" etc etc.

They also like to hype that Marriott will sell your week for you if you needed to sell it and they DO say that Marriott's prices are always INCREASING. They neglect to mention the 40% commission and that Marriott will really only take back premium weeks to sell and they won't bother with a bronze or silver week."

The comment was made about purchases and not tours. For purchases this is indeed correct and the buyer signed that this was the case and were given the legal documents verifying the same. . . .

I guess I don't understand your response to the above post. Are you saying that your documents DID say that your timeshare had no resale value and was essentially worthless? The posts in this thread that quote documents only quoted disclaimers warning the buyer to not expect investment potential or any particular resaleability. I did not see anything about a timeshare having no resale value and being essentially worthless.

If Marriott treats resale buyers fairly (both current and future), market forces will determine how much Marriott timeshares are worth resale. And that is the way it should be. If the seller can only get $1 to get someone to take his unit off his hands, then $1 is how much his is worth, regardless of how much he paid for it retail.

 

[PerryM]

Reporting what they tell you is fair, reporting what you consistently see others are stating is somewhat risky but fair to a degree. But that is not 3 yrs of 24/7 rumors, that was my point, in part. Marriott is not pushing this rumor. We have an internal source that gave Dave some info and we have salespeople hype that usually means nothing anyway, even with Marriott over the years. Other than reporting what the rumors say, there are essentially no other facts. And any interpretation on a given scenario is not fact either no matter how likely it is to be true in the end.

This may truly end up exactly as you state in every way, we simply don't know. I for one, doubt the worst case scenarios are likely but it may indeed be negative for many of us. And we get to discuss it a few more times over the next couple of years.

Regardless, thanks for not taking my comments too personally, I struggled with the words to say what I wanted but not be any more personal than required to say what I felt I needed to.

I have stated that what Marriott is doing with their rumor is despicable but the aggressor in any contest sets the rules. Marriott has elected to use their new system as a way to control owners via their own reservations - a drastic departure from their benign resale approach with MRPs.

This new system will completely change the way owners use their Marriott weeks. I've shown that even Marriott bought owners will feel the impact of less inventory in the exchange system since many owners won't convert or can't convert.

I'm assuming Marriott has thought this out and decided a more antagonistic approach to their owner base is in their best interests.

As more and more rumors are released by Marriott this antagonistic outlook will become more evident - that's my guess. We can't change their minds but just warn others that Marriott has given us fair warning of their actions well in advance of release.

My advice to all is to not buy Marriott timeshares until the new system is released - there are way too many possible outcomes to take any kind of risk.

 

[SueDonJ]

Think about your own friends, if any of them are owners. Do you consider any of them well informed? I personally know and am also friends with several owners, some multiple week owners, who are all highly educated, professionally successful people. Some of the purchases were vacation impulse buys, some weren't, but not one is truly cognizant of either fully utilizing their purchases or the limitations of the system.

I think the bottom line is that life intervenes. For many of us here, this is a hobby and/or obsession , but most people don't want to bother putting that much thought into vacation planning and thus largely ignore the details of purchasing and ownership. We forget that people here on Tug are not the norm (and maybe not normal either ).

I know only two other couples who own timeshares, neither of them at an MVCI resort. One owns DVC and knows it inside out - they were the first ones who sent me to the disboards way back when. The other owns whatever is up at Loon Mountain in NH - they've paid their dues faithfully every year but no longer go ("it's not the same as it used to be") and have never tried (I don't think) to exchange. They give their week to their kids, though.

You're correct, I'm sure, that we here at TUG are compulsive about making the absolute best out of our purchases, no matter which way we purchased. Dean and others agree with you that a good number of people make major impulse purchases all the time. Don't know why it shocks me, but it does.

And you're definitely correct that we TUGGERs may not all be normal.

 

[SueDonJ]

I also have qualms about that system, which is why I have referenced that thread earlier. I think there stands to be a lot of losers IF a similar system is enacted and, from what I've been told, the system being developed will have preferred resorts which will be higher valued, presumably with higher point values although this was not detailed. What I heard was consistent with the other program at least in rough form. I fear that there will be a lot of very unhappy Platinum owners at very nice but perhaps not what Marriott considers their Category 7 resorts in the MR program and owners of lesser season weeks even more discontented and possibly disenchanted.

That said, from my understanding is that Marriott can only control the portion of weeks in the program, so that, for argument's sake, if 25% of owners convert to points, then 25% of each eligible resort/week/view/size designation would be available for reservations in that program. Marriott cannot commandeer a disproportionate amount of inventory in any program. There may ultimately be more prime week availability under a points reservation system, because Marriott may control which weeks get deposited into II for external exchanges; in Starwood, for example, owners at mandatory resorts get to reserve weeks for use but Starwood decides which weeks and even which resorts to deposit for trading purposes. Thus, for example, there may be more 4th of July weeks available for personal use or for renting but the days of reserving those weeks to maximize trade value may be gone.

Of course, since they control the inventory we also have to rely on their integrity in managing and policing the system, but hopefully that will be a non issue.

All of this is why I much prefer the "overlay" point-based internal exchange system with absolutely no impact on usage or fees at your purchased resort. In any given year that you don't choose to exchange, any exchange program should have no impact on what you purchased.

 

[SueDonJ]

But how many times have you heard that someone bought retail because they were more comfortable. Or worse, that financing was easy...

Well, if people who bought for those reasons were completely informed about their purchase, then I don't have a problem with them finding those reasons to be valid. I don't want my reasons questioned, why should I object to others?

DVC, I think, has more brand-loyalty purchasers than any other. Granted, DVC is a good product and the company protects its value better than any other timeshare company. But some DVC purists will pay more for the exact same product if it means that they're buying direct from Disney. (And that's true for the smallest items such as tee shirts that might be sold bootleg at a flea market, all the way up to their big-ticket SSR points.)

 

[PerryM]

Much much more.....

All of this is why I much prefer the "overlay" point-based internal exchange system with absolutely no impact on usage or fees at your purchased resort. In any given year that you don't choose to exchange, any exchange program should have no impact on what you purchased.

I wouldn't make that assumption at all.

The new exchange system can easily be a combo reservation/exchange system - you do both at the same time. The rumor is not clear about this but that's how I would design a new system for Marriott owners who bought from Marriott.

Within each season (Platinum for example) there are some weeks that are far more desirable than others - who get's those weeks? Marriott has a tremendous advantage over us mortal owners - they can write their new program to take advantage of VIP status.

I don't assume for a second that Marriott is just going to introduce an exchange & reservation system but an entire spectrum of VIP benefits. One of those benefits could easily be the pre-placement of reservations for a highly desirable week.

Lets say Marriott follows Wyndham and introduces an exchange system and VIP system that go hand-in-hand. The more points you deposit/buy the more VIP benefits you get. Let's say that Marriott offers pre-placement of high demand weeks 13 weeks out. You, as a Diamond level VIP member, get 14 months to pre-book your reservations - that means you can deposit your weeks 14 months in advance too. (No actual reservations take place 14 months out - just pre-placement of reservations which will be executed 30 days later)

Now 13 months out and at 8:00 am CST the new exchange & reservation system dumps 20,000 booking orders which are processed seconds before a mortal human can enter the first reservation - all inventory snatched up by Marriott. Nothing violated in any way here folks.

Anything that takes 3 years to program is going to be very complex and do a lot more than just handle reservation swaps between owners.

That's why its taking 3 years - a brand new set of software programs and sales programs are going to be implemented not just an exchange system.

P.S.
Once Marriott creates a caste system, the possibilities are limitless as to how they treat each caste. Each time they do, resale prices will reflect the supply of weeks overpowering the demand for weeks and an implosion of resale prices results. Marriott will benefit with the ROFR and will then implement even more castes. This is exactly what Wyndham did and resales are 5 cents on the sales dollar.

 

[SueDonJ]

I wouldn't make that assumption at all.

The new exchange system can easily be a combo reservation/exchange system - you do both at the same time...

But Perry, I'm not making any assumptions, only saying that the "overlay" system which would not impact usage or fees at the resorts where I purchased, is the system I would prefer to see implemented. That's assuming a new one is to be implemented, which isn't definite. Yet.