Marriott points and internal exchange program - the latest info

[Latravel]

"I've never had a Marriott salesperson come out and say that what they were proposing to sell me would in the end have no resale value and essentially be worthless. "

Have you guys been reading the previous posts where SueDon and I have been showing the language in the purchase documents? In those documents, they specifically state that no representation of resale value has been made. I can't be any more clear so yes, i'm serious.

 

[PerryM]

CYA is for Marriott's protection

"I've never had a Marriott salesperson come out and say that what they were proposing to sell me would in the end have no resale value and essentially be worthless. "

Have you guys been reading the previous posts where SueDon and I have been showing the language in the purchase documents? In those documents, they specifically state that no representation of resale value has been made. I can't be any more clear so yes, i'm serious.

That's to cover the concept of the salesrep selling a timeshare as something to flip; that's all.

It's probably on a long list of things that cover the salesreps butt and Marriott - nothing whatsoever to do with warning nor protecting the buyer.

This document means nothing but CYA to Marriott. A simple signature and/or initialing a long list impart no knowledge to that owner. Hell the war of 1812 could be disclaimed in the document and the new owner would blissfully sign it.

 

[SueDonJ]

"I've never had a Marriott salesperson come out and say that what they were proposing to sell me would in the end have no resale value and essentially be worthless. "

Have you guys been reading the previous posts where SueDon and I have been showing the language in the purchase documents? In those documents, they specifically state that no representation of resale value has been made. I can't be any more clear so yes, i'm serious.

Here on TUG it appears that the majority of the posters have had bad experiences, if any at all, with MVCI salespersons, so it seems to make sense that the collective opinion is, "MVCI salespersons are as bad as the rest of the weasels."

But TUG members represent only a small fraction of the MVCI ownership base, and our experiences have been different from the collective, so we understand it's probably more true than not that the majority of MVCI direct-purchasers understand the terms of their purchase. Granted, they may not all have understood them at the time of their purchase, but after it they were able to combine their salesperson's spoken words with the contractual language and are at least satisfied, if not happy as we are, with the terms of their purchase. Otherwise, with the popularity of the internet, wouldn't more of them come here to what is acknowledged to be the most-utilized timeshare message boards, in order to express their dissatisfaction?

In this discussion, also, it's not been acknowledged by all the participants that a change in the internal exchange system will result in a worthless resale value for all MVCI properties. I think some are conveniently ignoring that, instead assuming it is a done deal as Point A and then going on to Point B from there.

 

[SueDonJ]

That's to cover the concept of the salesrep selling a timeshare as something to flip; that's all.

It's probably on a long list of things that cover the salesreps butt and Marriott - nothing whatsoever to do with warning nor protecting the buyer.

This document means nothing but CYA to Marriott. A simple signature and/or initialing a long list impart no knowledge to that owner. Hell the war of 1812 could be disclaimed in the document and the new owner would blissfully sign it.

We carried a Timeshare Resales (or whatever it was titled) magazine in to the presentation and contrasted the information in it with our salesperson's words and the various MVCI literature she offered, and made our informed decision based on all of that. You can continue to think that MVCI makes certain declarations for the sole purpose of CYA, but in our experience it simply isn't true. Our salesperson did her best to make sure we were as informed as we could be, and welcomed all of our questions to that end. Again, I think certain truths are being ignored to shore up certain opinions.

[Edit:] Perry, you're also (conveniently?) ignoring that the value language isn't only on those Quality Assurance Checklists; it's in the actual Contract for Purchase.

 

[m61376]

I haven’t read all of this thread, but I’d thought I’d throw in my 2 cents. I do think Marriott uses this board as a free focus group. When it comes to the TUG BB, the Marriott board is one of the busiest and most active probably on the whole internet with typically over 20 people watching it at any one time. Also, DaveM seems to have several inside contacts at Marriott. So, IMO, it makes sense for Marriott to feed DaveM some information like this to generate a free focus group discussion for them to look at. That being said, here’s my opinion to the Marriott execs who I believe will be reading it.

If you’re going to make this change to a point based system, be very very careful and make sure it’s done right. Right now Marriott is very well thought of in the TS market and IMO is probably the second best only behind Disney and it’s the best weeks based TS system. If this is done poorly, then the product will see a great devaluation like a great many of the other point based systems. I’m going to use Disney as a comparison since that seems to be the most well thought of points based system. Here are my points that I’d like to get across.

1. Do not create any sort of caste system between owners who purchased through Marriott and resale owners. Doing this will greatly devalue the product for ALL owners because everyone will probably want to sell their TS eventually. If you look at Disney, they make NO differentiation among points owners regarding where they got their points. This in large part is why IMO the Disney points retain the most value from the original price of any TS on the market.

2. Plan on maintaining a very active ROFR system to support the value of your product. Again, Disney does this the best through their very active ROFR system which IMO really maintains the value of their product. Also, by doing this, Disney is able to not have any caste system based on how you acquired your Disney points and they treat all their “owners” the same. Also by doing this it protects your own TS salespeople who won’t then feel compelled to use unscrupulous and nasty sales tactics that have long given the TS industry a bad name. Just check out this thread for an example: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103525 Would you ever think of a Disney salesperson acting like this? Your salespeople may actually encourage people to check out TUG and educate themselves instead of calling us “wackjobs” and just relying on a purely emotional spur of the moment decision to buy. Disney does a heck of a lot of sales over the phone well after the TS sales pitch has taken place. Marriott can greatly enhance their over the phone off-site TS sales by acting like Disney by not creating a caste system and by strongly supporting their product through an active ROFR system. It’s of quite a bit of concern to me that Marriott has suspended their ROFR with the current state of the economy. Disney has not suspended their ROFR system and as such the underlying value of their product has stood up much better through this really bad economy then Marriott’s product has stood up.

3. Be careful on how the yearly MF’s are calculated. Most people, like myself, bought very expensive platinum weeks. We were willing to pay the very high upfront initial price knowing that we would get our beautiful 2 bedroom TS during a very desirable time for only the yearly 700-1K MF’s each year. This especially applies to places like ski resorts where there is clearly a huge difference between a platinum and a bronze week. Bronze week owners pay the same MF which is why their initial cost is usually pretty dirt cheap. They buy in hopes of playing the “trading” game successfully and are quite flexible which are completely different to why most platinum owners buy in. With most, if not all, points based TS systems including Disney, the MF’s are directly tied into the number of points one has. If this happens it’s going to make the weekly MF’s for a premiere 2 bedroom TS during a premiere ski week probably triple or quadruple which is not going to make those owners very happy and it will devalue their weeks by bringing the MF’s a lot closer to the price for just renting the week. This, IMO, is the biggest dilemma a weeks based system has when they want to convert to a points based system. I don’t know the solution to this dilemma, but IMO it’s a huge dilemma which you should not take lightly.

All in all, I really hope you Marriott guys scrap these plans for a points based system. You guys chose to make your system a weeks based system and in actuality it’s IMO the premiere weeks based TS system in the industry. I would not recommend blowing up your system which can have disastrous consequences and really destroy the value of the underlying Marriott product and TS brand. Instead I would focus your energies on enhancing the weeks based system you already have in place to make it better and better.

Again, everything I have stated is strictly my opinion. Enjoy the free focus group reading.

I think your post touches on several important points.

I was away for the last week and just spent an hour catching up on this thread- whew! Some interesting comments have been made. Heidi repeatedly stressed her opinion that Marriott's verbiage states that there is no representation of resale value; in actuality, at least in my reading, it doesn't guarantee any resale value and goes to great lengths to legally insulate themselves from implying that there is any such guarantee. That is a far cry from stating that there is no inherent resale value. In fact, despite the verbiage, salespeople are currently advertising the fact that, in Aruba for example, the government has placed a 30 year moratorium on new timeshares, so that the value of any current purchases will only increase in time since there will be no new ones built and, once the remaining 10% of the Surf Club is sold out, owners can expect the value to increase. So as recently as a few days ago Marriott representatives were accenting the inherent resale value as a sales tool.

The latest additions to the rumor mill (and I say that because it is clear that it is impossible to filter out fact from fiction in all the rumors being circulated):
-there will be a new points program next year
-weeks will be converted to points
-Premiere properties will get more points and be at the top of the heap
-ALL owners will be treated equally, with no distinction between how their week was purchased (wrt this program; of course, the trade for reward points will remain a distinction)
- it is being touted as a wonderful way to directly book alternate properties. They have not worked out the details and are currently working on how to ensure that owners at specific resorts retain a priority to book weeks at their owned resorts. They will likely retain priority, but everyone may have the same booking period. I pointed out that there would be no way to ensure that owners get priority for their home resort weeks unless they could reserve before other owners could reserve, but that was an area that clearly was still under review/development.
-They clearly want everyone to join this wonderful new program and are even at least thinking about it being a no cost conversion.

After filtering through everything I heard, I think some of Clemson's concerns are some of the biggest- how will any projected changes affect annual MF's? As pointed out, Platinum owners already paid for the privilege via higher up front costs. They will be rewarded with higher point values, but will they also incur much higher MF's? That would be a huge issue. I think that's one of the two biggest hurdles Marriott will have to address.

The other big issue is sort of the flip side of the coin- how not to make Bronze and Silver weeks basically worthless, and not antagonize owners who have manipulated the system a bit to their benefit. Every year, a significant portion of weeks go unused. Deposits into II expire. Other owners have been able to utilize these weeks. Who will reap the benefits of the something like 10% (I forget the exact number) of such underutilized weeks?

They need to incorporate a late trade reduced point system or something similar so as to allow lower value weeks to still grab value out of the system and justify their MF's, and work out a system where Platinum week owners don't see their MF's double or worse.

Personally, I think addressing the distinction between relative value of different resorts and the season owned represents a bigger problem than how the unit was purchased. But, again, that's just my opinion, for what it is (or isn't) worth.

 

[PerryM]

Here on TUG it appears that the majority of the posters have had bad experiences, if any at all, with MVCI salespersons, so it seems to make sense that the collective opinion is, "MVCI salespersons are as bad as the rest of the weasels."

But TUG members represent only a small fraction of the MVCI ownership base, and our experiences have been different from the collective, so we understand it's probably more true than not that the majority of MVCI direct-purchasers understand the terms of their purchase. Granted, they may not all have understood them at the time of their purchase, but after it they were able to combine their salesperson's spoken words with the contractual language and are at least satisfied, if not happy as we are, with the terms of their purchase. Otherwise, with the popularity of the internet, wouldn't more of them come here to what is acknowledged to be the most-utilized timeshare message boards, in order to express their dissatisfaction?

In this discussion, also, it's not been acknowledged by all the participants that a change in the internal exchange system will result in a worthless resale value for all MVCI properties. I think some are conveniently ignoring that, instead assuming it is a done deal as Point A and then going on to Point B from there.

I don't assume that for a second - we TUG members represent a sampling of owners/prospects that march through the sales gallery - why would you assume differently? I've never been asked "Are you now or have you ever been a member of TUG?"

I long ago stopped trying to correct timeshare salesreps - either the flat out lies or the wrong information they spew out while at the sales presentation. As a game I try to keep track of how many minutes it takes for the salesrep to spit out the first lie - about 5 minutes is the average once we are done chit-chatting.

Once the prospect starts signing documents its over - they don't read the documents and they are not lawyers so they take the word of the salesrep for the past 2 hours.

What's on the documents means something to Marriott, what the salesrep said for 120+ minutes is what the new owner remembers.

Of course what was NOT said is even more important - sadly our new owner never heard those topics and will discover all the things left out for many years to come.

 

[PerryM]

We carried a Timeshare Resales (or whatever it was titled) magazine in to the presentation and contrasted the information in it with our salesperson's words and the various MVCI literature she offered, and made our informed decision based on all of that. You can continue to think that MVCI makes certain declarations for the sole purpose of CYA, but in our experience it simply isn't true. Our salesperson did her best to make sure we were as informed as we could be, and welcomed all of our questions to that end. Again, I think certain truths are being ignored to shore up certain opinions.

[Edit:] Perry, you're also (conveniently?) ignoring that the value language isn't only on those Quality Assurance Checklists; it's in the actual Contract for Purchase.

I've been tempted to sit through a sales presentation with a tape recorder running and my cell phone browser open and fact checking taking place in real time.

But once you introduce anything into that sales gallery that doesn't belong there the salesreps don't act normal they act like lawyers on TV - CYA.

 

[SueDonJ]

... -weeks will be converted to points ...- how will any projected changes affect annual MF's?

Isn't there a significant distinction to be made between weeks being converted to points for all aspects of ownership as opposed to only for the internal exchange system?

If the internal exchange system is rolled out as what's been termed here "an overlay," then there could be absolutely no change at all in any other aspect of the ownership terms. MF would not be impacted in that case.

 

[SueDonJ]

... But TUG members represent only a small fraction of the MVCI ownership base, and our experiences have been different from the collective, so we understand it's probably more true than not that the majority of MVCI direct-purchasers understand the terms of their purchase.

I don't assume that for a second - we TUG members represent a sampling of owners/prospects that march through the sales gallery - why would you assume differently?

I meant "we" as Latravel and me; hers was the post I quoted. And I said why I assume it for the majority of MVCI owners:

Otherwise, with the popularity of the internet, wouldn't more of them come here to what is acknowledged to be the most-utilized timeshare message boards, in order to express their dissatisfaction?

 

[m61376]

One more thing- as Sue and others have pointed out, the majority of direct purchasers aren't "uninformed idiots." Clearly, many of them made an informed decision BUT I do agree that I don't think most were fully informed.

I think most direct purchasers are unaware of the resale market, or at least of the price differential. Just this past week I was talking with an owner who felt that buying another week at 25% off was a terrific bargain, despite a paltry offering of incentive points, and made a purchase while on vacation. They were current owners, know the system to some degree, and I would consider them an informed consumer to a certain degree.

They were happy with their purchase and I wouldn't burst their bubble. They were unaware that they could have bought the same unit (which they intend to use, btw) and saved 9 or 10K.

I think they are characteristic of the vast majority of so called informed buyers. I think that few purchasers are fully informed and that most purchases are made either by the uninformed, purchasing while on a vacation and in vacation mode, so to speak, or by happy owners adding to their vacation portfolio.

Just like resale buyers are in the minority, I think there are relatively few retail purchasers who buy direct fully aware of the resale market. Again, I am in no way being disparaging here to those making such decisions- if it works to their benefit and they've enjoyed some fabulous trips, more power to them. I just don't think that even the best and most honest salespeople do a thorough job of educating their buyers. Salespeople are in the market to sell- and even if they don't stretch the truth, they naturally largely advance the pros of ownership without discussing the cons.

 

[m61376]

Isn't there a significant distinction to be made between weeks being converted to points for all aspects of ownership as opposed to only for the internal exchange system?

If the internal exchange system is rolled out as what's been termed here "an overlay," then there could be absolutely no change at all in any other aspect of the ownership terms. MF would not be impacted in that case.

Yes- and it remains to be seen to what extent they do this. IF they enact it like the Asia Pacific points program, then it affects everything. From my recent conversations, my impression was that it is not only going to be an overlay for exchanges, but be utilized while making home resort reservations as well. Whether or not that will impact the MF's or how they are calculated remains to be seen, of course.

 

[PerryM]

One more thing- as Sue and others have pointed out, the majority of direct purchasers aren't "uninformed idiots." Clearly, many of them made an informed decision BUT I do agree that I don't think most were fully informed.

I think most direct purchasers are unaware of the resale market, or at least of the price differential. Just this past week I was talking with an owner who felt that buying another week at 25% off was a terrific bargain, despite a paltry offering of incentive points, and made a purchase while on vacation. They were current owners, know the system to some degree, and I would consider them an informed consumer to a certain degree.

They were happy with their purchase and I wouldn't burst their bubble. They were unaware that they could have bought the same unit (which they intend to use, btw) and saved 9 or 10K.

I think they are characteristic of the vast majority of so called informed buyers. I think that few purchasers are fully informed and that most purchases are made either by the uninformed, purchasing while on a vacation and in vacation mode, so to speak, or by happy owners adding to their vacation portfolio.

Just like resale buyers are in the minority, I think there are relatively few retail purchasers who buy direct fully aware of the resale market. Again, I am in no way being disparaging here to those making such decisions- if it works to their benefit and they've enjoyed some fabulous trips, more power to them. I just don't think that even the best and most honest salespeople do a thorough job of educating their buyers. Salespeople are in the market to sell- and even if they don't stretch the truth, they naturally largely advance the pros of ownership without discussing the cons.

Eventually resale buyers WILL account for more than 50% of all transactions during the year - folks sell timeshares all the time.

Just like timeshares don't work well when real estate prices fall, they stop working as resales get to the point the developer has real competition - especially when the developer has spent decades bashing resales that now cost just 5 cents on the current sales dollar.

There is nothing wrong with the owner of a timeshare wanting to sell their unit and THEY spend the time and money finding a replacement - it costs the developer nothing and keeps the owners paying MFs.

The developer should do what Marriott does do - act as the real estate broker and closing agent. Marriott what the hell are you afraid of? Why the bashing of resales by your owners? Why concoct a scheme that punishes resale owners?

Are you nuts Marriott?

 

[kjd]

Point system paranoia

I having trouble understanding why there is such angst about changing to an unknown point system that is best described as an illusionary fantasy. I certainly don't think that it deserves 28 pages of a thread. It's pure speculation.

No one has presented any concrete details of a point system plan that is to be adopted by Marriott nor is there any firm date for its' adoption. It's been said here many times that there are "rumors" by salespeople and others supposedly in the know.

No other subject seems to bring out this much paranoia. Marriott can do just about whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and that's what we all signed onto whether we bought from Marriott or bought resale. It's like gravity; you have to live with it.

 

[SueDonJ]

Yes- and it remains to be seen to what extent they do this. IF they enact it like the Asia Pacific points program, then it affects everything. From my recent conversations, my impression was that it is not only going to be an overlay for exchanges, but be utilized while making home resort reservations as well. Whether or not that will impact the MF's or how they are calculated remains to be seen, of course.

This is the one area in which I will wholeheartedly agree with Perry. It doesn't [Edit: reflect well on MVCI or its employees or the product] one bit to offer misleading (sometimes totally incorrect) information during a sales presentation, and it doesn't [reflect well] either for certain owners to be privy to speculative incomplete information that is not available to all owners.

Dave has a contact, m here (do you mind if I call you "m?" ) has a contact ... I'll bet we could all make a phone call to our salespersons or advisors and probably 50% of us would be successful in getting our "contacts" to speculate over this. But would any of it be correct? That's the question, and even Dave's and m's contacts haven't put their details or names out in the public eye.

By the way, I'm not calling my salesperson. It's not her job to know what any future changes WILL consist of, no matter what they MAY consist of. True, we asked for speculation during our sales presentation so we could consider the possibilities, but speculation about this one internal exchange system seems to be more harmful than helpful judging by the various responses.

 

[PerryM]

Marriott's rumor

I having trouble understanding why there is such angst about changing to an unknown point system that is best described as an illusionary fantasy. I certainly don't think that it deserves 28 pages of a thread. It's pure speculation.

No one has presented any concrete details of a point system plan that is to be adopted by Marriott nor is there any firm date for its' adoption. It's been said here many times that there are "rumors" by salespeople and others supposedly in the know.

No other subject seems to bring out this much paranoia. Marriott can do just about whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and that's what we all signed onto whether we bought from Marriott or bought resale. It's like gravity; you have to live with it.

Marriott has made it clear, in 3 years of 24/7 pushing the rumor of a Marriott Internal Exchange System, that they welcome a lively debate on their rumor.

Why else would Marriott push the same rumor for 3 years?

We are simply taking our knowledge of other Point systems and making a best effort guess as to what Marriott will do.

We know 5 facts that Marriott has shared with us:

• The new exchange system will hurt resale owners
  
• The new exchange system will be for Marriott only sold weeks
  
• The new exchange system will depress resale prices - don't buy resale
  
• The new exchange system will leave out 3,000 other timeshare resorts so II membership must be used outside of the new system
  
• The new exchange system will be Points oriented and there is great doubt as to the ability to make an exchange versus II

Beyond that Marriott gives us little guidance.

Hey, its Marriott's rumor they know folks will talk....

Marriott has only itself to blame - it can just shut its mouth and stop pushing the rumor.

 

[m61376]

Marriott has made it clear, in 3 years of 24/7 pushing the rumor of a Marriott Internal Exchange System, that they welcome a lively debate on their rumor.

Why else would Marriott push the same rumor for 3 years?

We are simply taking our knowledge of other Point systems and making a best effort guess as to what Marriott will do.

We know 5 facts that Marriott has shared with us:

• The new exchange system will hurt resale owners
  
• The new exchange system will be for Marriott only sold weeks
  
• The new exchange system will depress resale prices - don't buy resale
  
• The new exchange system will leave out 3,000 other timeshare resorts so II membership must be used outside of the new system
  
• The new exchange system will be Points oriented and there is great doubt as to the ability to make an exchange versus II

Beyond that Marriott gives us little guidance.

Hey, its Marriott's rumor they know folks will talk....

Marriott has only itself to blame - it can just shut its mouth and stop pushing the rumor.

Perry- only the last two "facts" are actually facts; whether or not Marriott will actively hurt current or future resale owners is fraught with speculation. It is entirely possible (and highly probably according to some sources at least) that the new program will include at least current resale owners, it may include future resale owners as well, in which case it would not likely depress resale prices. If it includes all weeks, regardless of how purchased, and is a positive program, benefiting everyone- benefiting current and future owners with increased flexibility, availability, ease of booking/reserving weeks by directly booking rather than exchanging through II and benefiting Marriott with good will and income from the program, then it could even have a positive effect on resale pricing.

IF it excludes resale owners then I agree it will negatively impact pricing- but that's still a speculative "IF."

 

[PerryM]

I believe...

Perry- only the last two "facts" are actually facts; whether or not Marriott will actively hurt current or future resale owners is fraught with speculation. It is entirely possible (and highly probably according to some sources at least) that the new program will include at least current resale owners, it may include future resale owners as well, in which case it would not likely depress resale prices. If it includes all weeks, regardless of how purchased, and is a positive program, benefiting everyone- benefiting current and future owners with increased flexibility, availability, ease of booking/reserving weeks by directly booking rather than exchanging through II and benefiting Marriott with good will and income from the program, then it could even have a positive effect on resale pricing.

IF it excludes resale owners then I agree it will negatively impact pricing- but that's still a speculative "IF."

My salesrep, at OceanWatch, gave me the above 5 items - he speaks for Marriott.

I believe him.

He acknowledged that when he brought up the rumor it blew up in his face many times - seems that smart Marriott owners own and visit OceanWatch and were irritated by the rumor.

He said that ONLY Marriott sold weeks could belong to the new Marriott Internal Exchange System.

He said that Marriott resale prices would fall - don't by resales now.

Like I said, I believe him.

 

[RandR]

Isn't there a significant distinction to be made between weeks being converted to points for all aspects of ownership as opposed to only for the internal exchange system?

If the internal exchange system is rolled out as what's been termed here "an overlay," then there could be absolutely no change at all in any other aspect of the ownership terms. MF would not be impacted in that case.

Susan, Hilton's program charges MF's based on unit size not points. So the way it works out is that Gold weeks pay less per point for their purchase but more per point for MF's. Something like that would work just fine.

 

[ondeadlin]

Two dominant thoughts after reading this thread:

1. It's way, way too early to be getting as worked up, and as disagreeable with each other, as some posters are. Until there are some hard facts, this is all speculation and noise, and certainly not worth this many pages of debate and argument IMO. We all get worked up on message boards - I'm as guilty as anyone - but if when you look back on it a month later, it's going to seem pretty silly.

2. Any possible Marriott point system, and any uncertainty created by that possibility, just underscores the most important commandment of timesharing - buy where you want to vacation.

Whether is developer or resale, buy where you want to vacation.

If you do that, you'll always have that option, and presumably an option you're happy with.

 

[PerryM]

Two dominant thoughts after reading this thread:

1. It's way, way too early to be getting as worked up, and as disagreeable with each other, as some posters are. Until there are some hard facts, this is all speculation and noise, and certainly not worth this many pages of debate and argument IMO. We all get worked up on message boards - I'm as guilty as anyone - but if when you look back on it a month later, it's going to seem pretty silly.

2. Any possible Marriott point system, and any uncertainty created by that possibility, just underscores the most important commandment of timesharing - buy where you want to vacation.

Whether is developer or resale, buy where you want to vacation.

If you do that, you'll always have that option, and presumably an option you're happy with.

Silly? - well Marriott will still be pushing the rumor - resales are going to get screwed. They have not stopped for 3 years now - I don't expect them to stop for another 3 years.

This is great advice but Marriott seems to now want to target that very concept - if you need to sell your timeshare they promise reduced resale prices.

 

[SueDonJ]

Susan, Hilton's program charges MF's based on unit size not points. So the way it works out is that Gold weeks pay less per point for their purchase but more per point for MF's. Something like that would work just fine.

DVC, too, charges differing MF's based on your home resort and number of points owned. I'm not saying that MF based on something other than what is currently in effect with MVCI resorts wouldn't work, just that a different exchange system than the one currently in effect wouldn't necessarily mean that MF's would be impacted at all.

 

[hotcoffee]

"That scenerio might well cause some direct purchasers to snicker - until for whatever reason they themselves one day have to sell. Then it ceases to be funny."

Incorrect. People who purchased from Marriott were informed by sales management to NOT expect any resale value. If I sell, I am aware I may not (and probably would not) get my money back.

So, you are equating a disclaimer informing buyers not to expect to get their money back with "NOT expect any resale value"? I think that the intent of the disclaimer is to merely soften the brutal reality that buyers will eventually discover that the timeshare they are buying will probably lose more than 50% of its value as soon as they finish signing the documents. The intent is not to inform them that they are buying something completely worthless (as, in fact, almost is the case for buyers of off-season weeks at seasonal resorts).

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . .
1. It's way, way too early to be getting as worked up, and as disagreeable with each other, as some posters are. Until there are some hard facts, this is all speculation and noise, and certainly not worth this many pages of debate and argument IMO. We all get worked up on message boards - I'm as guilty as anyone - but if when you look back on it a month later, it's going to seem pretty silly.

Overall, I think that this thread, although long, has been very informative and useful. A lot of good information has been posted here. Moreover, there is good reason to feel a little uneasy about what the ramifications will be when this system is finally rolled out (if it is finally rolled out). Its been the Marriott sales staff that has planted the seeds of speculation and/or discontent. Surely they have been doing that with their management's full knowledge. What has been their motive?

2. Any possible Marriott point system, and any uncertainty created by that possibility, just underscores the most important commandment of timesharing - buy where you want to vacation. . . .

It is a good point to make that it makes sense to buy where you want to vacation. Even so, many people value the option of going to a different resort occasionally. It is not surprising that some of them might wonder how all of this is going to impact their abiltiy to continue doing that.

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . The developer bypasses residual value and resales by simply saying "That deed lets you pass down your timeshare to your heirs" (Like saddling them with MFs for the rest of their lives is a great thing for you to do; it is for the developer). . . .

I've read this statement so often. It is used as a good argument to buy a timeshare. Inheriting a timeshare at an old resort with expensive MFs in reality might not appeal to one's heirs - especially if it would be nearly impossible to sell it! Oh, wait a moment: selling is not an important issue (as we have learned on this forum). So, there would be no problem! The heirs would never want to sell it!

 

[SueDonJ]

I've read this statement so often. It is used as a good argument to buy a timeshare. Inheriting a timeshare at an old resort with expensive MFs in reality might not appeal to one's heirs - especially if it would be nearly impossible to sell it! Oh, wait a moment: selling is not an important issue (as we have learned on this forum). So, there would be no problem! The heirs would never want to sell it!

There is a difference between knowing that you will take a loss when you sell your timeshare and not being able to sell your timeshare. Some of us can say that we consider more important the lifestyle value of our purchases, less important the financial value upon reselling (especially as we understand MVCI does not make any guarantee as to that value.) None of us can say with certainty that any and every internal exchange system that MVCI may develop and/or implement will result in every MVCI purchase being worthless.

I think that we all worry about saddling our heirs with unwanted financial burdens, and we all hope that we have been or will be able to make provisions for whatever may occur after we're gone.