Marriott points and internal exchange program - the latest info

[Lawlar]

Funny Math

...
Over 400 posts on what? Absolutely nothing. I did get one thing from the discussion. That is that Marriott is trying to retain value of the timeshare so that those who bought from the developer would not feel that their buying their timeshare for $25,000 to $50,000 would not lose it all the next day as a resale buyer purchased it for $5000. That's fine with me to help protect the value. That helps everyone by protecting the value of the product.

I am amused with this concept. It is like the banks not wanting to recognize that the value of their mortgage loans has declined, or homeowners not wanting to recognize that their homes have decreased in value.

The drop in timeshare resale prices tells us exacting how the market values what we purchased. No way to hide that truth.

 

[Lawlar]

Fixed Week - Best Value

I cannot really justify the purchase of a timeshare from Marriott. The value doesn't equal the amount paid.

Nonetheless, I am happy that my emotional, not to smart, decision to purchase a fixed week TS, in a fixed ocean front unit, protects me from any decision Marriott might make to switch to a points system. I will be happy sitting in room 1208, on the fourth week of each year, watching the whales swim by. My deed says I have that right.

Would I pay Marriott thousands more to "upgrade" to their points system. No way.

 

[BocaBum99]

I also can't believe the amount of talk that is going on on this topic and the speculations. I do not even have the time to read all the posts. I read the first and the last page. gee some of us have a lot of time on their hands.

What this tells you without reading any of the posts is that this is an extremely important topic to many owners. It may be a waste of time to go back and read the 450 posts or so. But, it may be worth some of your time to follow the developments going forward since it could effect you rather dramatically in the future.

TUG is here to educate owners and arm them with enough facts and analysis so that they can come to their own decision on what is right for their families. We do need to have these discussions so that we can stamp out bad rumors and help each other figure out what is real, what is likely to happen and what will probably never happen. Then, we will be informed owners. The best kind.

 

[BocaBum99]

Over 400 posts on what? Absolutely nothing. I did get one thing from the discussion. That is that Marriott is trying to retain value of the timeshare so that those who bought from the developer would not feel that their buying their timeshare for $25,000 to $50,000 would not lose it all the next day as a resale buyer purchased it for $5000. That's fine with me to help protect the value. That helps everyone by protecting the value of the product.

Wow, this couldn't be further from the reality. If that is what you learned from this thread. We failed you.

If Marriott takes actions that differentiates the retail product from the resale product and the resale product is only worth $5000, then the value of your ownership drops down to $5000. You don't benefit at all. Only Marriott gets the higher price. That's because when you go to sell, you sell it for $5000. You don't sell it for $25000.

 

[RandR]

I was just on with an Owner Services person asking a few questions and I mentioned the points system to her. She said she heard a rumor but really didn't know anything more except that they are talking about a fee to join. I mentioned TUG, which she hadn't heard of, and told her that the majority of people were extremely unhappy with the prospects of a change to a points based system. She was surprised and seemed sincere.

 

[Dean]

Yes, but unreserved weeks in a point system have no more value than unreserved weeks in the current system. Are you saying that there will be more unreserved weeks under a point system than the current system? Maybe so.

That's true, however, there are other issues of a points system that may push owners of higher demand times into lower demand reservations. It totally depends on the administration of the system and what priorities certain owners and the developer can take advantage of.

A good points system can be a win-win situation, as usual the devil is in the details. If, like many resorts and systems, they get greedy and try to make too much off current owners, then it could be a nightmare for the system and for the current owners, assuming anything actually happens of course. There are systems that have converted from scratch over to a points system, Fairfield comes to mind as does RCI points.

Marriott is going to its best keeping the price low enough to entice ALL owners to join. The company is going to want the recurring revenue of exchanges and is going to want to show that the program works by very simply showing the large amount of owners who join. The developers of this program are not going to take a chance on rolling it out at a price that many owners will see as too high.

Maybe, maybe not. It really depends on their goals going forward. If their goal is maximum profit in any such conversion, the cost may be more significant than many of us would like to see. If it's to get maximum participation to shore up a future system and sales at new resorts, you are probably right. Time will tell what will happen, if anything. My guess is if it does happen that they will be somewhere in between with an initial sale period that is more reasonable. In the interim, we get to beat it to death.

So, how much are you willing to pay? I realize without knowing the exact program details its hard to say, but in general, how many of us would pay 2 or 3 thousand dollars for access to a points program? I cant see myself spending more than a couple hundred $$. Anything more than that and I would probably stay with II and/or look for owner trades.

Without specifics I don't think there's any way to answer that question. If I make lots of assumptions it could be as few as nothing or as high as $20K for all of my weeks. Totally depends on what I'm potentially getting in return, what type of priorities I might or might not have in doing so and what I'm giving up. Since ALL of my weeks are Platinum and 6 of the 8 are very high demand locations, it would take some mix of goodies to get me onboard even at a low price. However, a system that I can use to my advantage to almost guarantee reservations at far more high demand resorts would definitely get my attention. The problem is that for every winner that is created in the new system, there is a potential loser. So get ready to have the "it's not fair" discussion a few times if this actually comes about.

 

[Clark]

Yaaaaaawwwwnn.

 

[Zac495]

Yaaaaaawwwwnn.

Not sure why Clark is bored, but his website WORKS and it's a way to deal with this nonsense. Clark - I'd like you to elaborate on your yawn -but I am here to say that ownertrade is the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[billymach4]

Not sure why Clark is bored, but his website WORKS and it's a way to deal with this nonsense. Clark - I'd like you to elaborate on your yawn -but I am here to say that ownertrade is the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know why Clark is bored. This topic has been sliced and diced, dissected and cross sectioned, post mortem, recreated, died, resurrected, inflated like some sort of messiah.

Don't take this the wrong way, but as has been mentioned before. This is still a rumor. Plain and simple. Some of the great experts here have done Marriott a great favor. Boca already has a business plan for Marriott. Boca should send Marriott a consultant fee of $500,000.

We have people calling Vacation Consultants about this. Let's get real here. Dave M. is Marriott's puppet. They know how much respect Dave M. garners in this forum. It would be so easy to get someone on the inside to feed a tip to Dave. Dave took the bait left the chum here and we Tug sharks tore this thing up.

Marriott's executive office is sitting back laughing at this whole scene. What a comic frenzy this has caused. Heck even PerryM came back to pay his 2 cents and then some.

My theory is that Marriott started this to distract all of the attention that the AOC ripoff thread garners.


:deadhorse:

 

[chris5]

Anyone have any images or cartoons of chickens running around with no heads?

 

[m61376]

e have people calling Vacation Consultants about this. Let's get real here. Dave M. is Marriott's puppet. They know how much respect Dave M. garners in this forum. It would be so easy to get someone on the inside to feed a tip to Dave. Dave took the bait left the chum here and we Tug sharks tore this thing up.

It's not fair to take advantage of Dave while he's away. He's been an honest and tremendous resource to a lot of people here and I don't think the criticism is in any way warranted.

This is a program that is definitely being worked on, with the expectation that it will be released to coincide with the next property release.

If you don't feel the debate, analysis and what not is worthwhile, then you can simply ignore the thread. However, I think it is a great way not only to speculate on what Marriott might offer, but to learn about the possible parameters of a points program, gain insight into how others operate, and start to think about how to personally evaluate whatever program they do offer, if and when it is released.

I do think that there is a good chance that if/when they release the program there will be a "pre-construction special" of sorts- a window in which the sign-on fee is markedly reduced just to get the ball rolling and to be able to advertise "in just x number of weeks we've already had y members joining," or something similar to that. Personally, I think it would be helpful to gain an understanding so I can evaluate any possible future program.

 

[IuLiKa]

Mr. Bocabum99,

I am an owner and I also recognize the importance of this topic.. No offense, but the reason I did not read all the 400 posts, is because the significance of this topic got lost!

Some have too much time on their hands... to speculate, and Marriott will do whatever will make business sense for them, doesn't matter what we say here.

 

[PerryM]

Recap so far...

Mr. Bocabum99,

I am an owner and I also recognize the importance of this topic.. No offense, but the reason I did not read all the 400 posts, is because the significance of this topic got lost!

Some have too much time on their hands... to speculate, and Marriott will do whatever will make business sense for them, doesn't matter what we say here.

Let's recap those 460 posts:

• We Marriott owners have a perfectly good way to exchange our weeks with each other right now - the 24-day "Marriott Only" window in II
  
• Marriott has decided to get into the timeshare exchange business and take the profit that used to be reserved for II
  
• Marriott is releasing the rumor of an impending system through their agents at sales presentations
  
• Marriott controls that rumor and the few "facts" lead one to the conclusion that a caste system is to be imposed upon the owners at their very own resorts - those that bought from Marriott and blood sucking scum who bought resale
  
• The new exchange system is to be 100% Points oriented and not the existing week exchange system
  
• Many timeshare developers already have such an exchange system and many of us are aware of the pros and cons and have shared them
  
• Release date has slipped 2-3 years from the first Marriott sponsored rumor
  
• Resales, which is the main target of the new system, will be impacted to some degree
  
• It isn't going to be free and WILL cost more than using II to use and the benefits are not included in the rumor.

Hope this helps....


That's it I believe - start to set money aside that you would use for your family but will now go to Marriott - and for what?

P.S.

Comments in this chat room are designed for fellow Marriott owners - Marriott could care less what happens here or on any chat room.

And if any of us were in Dave's shoes, we would do the same thing - tell us what Marriott said; I do it all the time (salesreps comments). What; the alternative is to not share what an employee of Marriott said?

Many of us here have profited from the chit-chat that goes on here - that's why we chit-chat.

 

[KathyPet]

Comments about Dave are totally unfair and unwarranted. Dave's contributions to this board cannot be underestimated.!

 

[ricki999]

[Some have too much time on their hands... to speculate, and Marriott will do whatever will make business sense for them, doesn't matter what we say here./QUOTE]

I too believe that Marriott will do what makes business sense to them regardless of what is posted here. I'd bet that most "speculating" on this topic would also agree.

I value the speculators having "too much time on their hands", as I plan to make an educated guess on what to do with my Marriott weeks based in part upon some of their speculation. In the end, I will do what makes best sense for me.

 

[billymach4]

It's not fair to take advantage of Dave while he's away. He's been an honest and tremendous resource to a lot of people here and I don't think the criticism is in any way warranted.
QUOTE]



My intention was not to take advantage or to critisize Dave in any way. As I said Marriott knows how much respect Dave has in this Forum.

I do think that someone inside at Marriott is taking advantage of Dave and the Goodwill he brings to this Forum.

Marriott got a very valuble analysis and a Focus Group result here. For zero $$$$. They are going to turn around and ask us to pay.

 

[AceValenta]

I booked and exchange last night and spoke to the II representative at the Marriott desk and was informed that II and Marriott just renewed their contract 2 years ago and there is no intention of II and Marriott breaking the contract.

They also informed me that they are in the process of joining the two systems together so that Marriott Reps can make appointments and deposits through the II system and vice/versa. This way, you only have to call one line.

I asked them about the points system rumor. I was informed me that it purely a rumor and that is all it is, nothing more. The costs of developing a program, purchasing servers, training people, paying salaries and benefits far out weigh the benefits of the points program. The person went onto discuss server loads and how Marriott's system is able to handle a roll out of a program of this magnitude. I was also informed me that there hasn't been any information on their end that this is going to happen and reassured it was rumor.

I left the conversation satisfied after talking to the rep in length (30 minutes) about the rumor and feel that it is pure speculation.

I guess we will find out next March or April.

 

[Dean]

I booked and exchange last night and spoke to the II representative at the Marriott desk and was informed that II and Marriott just renewed their contract 2 years ago and there is no intention of II and Marriott breaking the contract.

They also informed me that they are in the process of joining the two systems together so that Marriott Reps can make appointments and deposits through the II system and vice/versa. This way, you only have to call one line.

I asked them about the points system rumor. I was informed me that it purely a rumor and that is all it is, nothing more. The costs of developing a program, purchasing servers, training people, paying salaries and benefits far out weigh the benefits of the points program. The person went onto discuss server loads and how Marriott's system is able to handle a roll out of a program of this magnitude. I was also informed me that there hasn't been any information on their end that this is going to happen and reassured it was rumor.

I left the conversation satisfied after talking to the rep in length (30 minutes) about the rumor and feel that it is pure speculation.

I guess we will find out next March or April.

I doubt Marriott would tell II much until they had their plans finalized and I doubt the upper management at II would tell the rank and file much until they were ready so I don't think this info would give any support in any way. I would assume that the contract would be for around 5 years give or take and that would be about right for a transition if any changes were in the works. It's likely that IF Marriott makes any changes that the Marriott internal preference with II will either go away or be significantly reduced such as Starwood's 3 day preference.

IMO, the only real reason for Marriott to do this is because they feel they can sell new resorts easier, faster and for a higher price than they currently can do. Any conversion profit would be minimal and gravy, IMO.

 

[dioxide45]

I booked and exchange last night and spoke to the II representative at the Marriott desk and was informed that II and Marriott just renewed their contract 2 years ago and there is no intention of II and Marriott breaking the contract.

They also informed me that they are in the process of joining the two systems together so that Marriott Reps can make appointments and deposits through the II system and vice/versa. This way, you only have to call one line.

I asked them about the points system rumor. I was informed me that it purely a rumor and that is all it is, nothing more. The costs of developing a program, purchasing servers, training people, paying salaries and benefits far out weigh the benefits of the points program. The person went onto discuss server loads and how Marriott's system is able to handle a roll out of a program of this magnitude. I was also informed me that there hasn't been any information on their end that this is going to happen and reassured it was rumor.

I left the conversation satisfied after talking to the rep in length (30 minutes) about the rumor and feel that it is pure speculation.

I guess we will find out next March or April.

I wouldn't be suprised and it has been said in the past that II will fulfill this new program. I highly doubt Marriott will invest in the technology and staff when it already exists at II. II will get a portion of any fees generated for fulfillment of the program.

 

[Dean]

I wouldn't be suprised and it has been said in the past that II will fulfill this new program. I highly doubt Marriott will invest in the technology and staff when it already exists at II. II will get a portion of any fees generated for fulfillment of the program.

Maybe, does II have an operating points software that would accommodate this possibility. I'm not aware they do though they should have a ton of data of overall demand on a weeks basis. Marriott likely has a lot more data on nightly demand and value from their hotel side than would II. I also bet that Marriott has access to a lot of II's data contractually as well.

 

[short]

short stay exchanges

Maybe, does II have an operating points software that would accommodate this possibility. I'm not aware they do though they should have a ton of data of overall demand on a weeks basis. Marriott likely has a lot more data on nightly demand and value from their hotel side than would II. I also bet that Marriott has access to a lot of II's data contractually as well.

II now has the short stay exchanges and the Marriott properties seem to dominate. This could be a practice round for Marriott points. Slap a Marriott priority on it, add 7 plus days stays and there you go.

Every time I have gone to a presentation or gotten a survey, my dominate comment has been that until Marriott make their product as flexible as HGVC(ie nightly stays, changing unit size etc) that I have no interest in buying developer Marriott.

Short

PS. Not that I would buy developer anyway but thats my story to them.

 

[Dean]

II now has the short stay exchanges and the Marriott properties seem to dominate. This could be a practice round for Marriott points. Slap a Marriott priority on it, add 7 plus days stays and there you go.

Every time I have gone to a presentation or gotten a survey, my dominate comment has been that until Marriott make their product as flexible as HGVC(ie nightly stays, changing unit size etc) that I have no interest in buying developer Marriott.

Short

PS. Not that I would buy developer anyway but thats my story to them.

It's nothing near the same. However, the short stay option was spearheaded by DVC prior to their departure which does have a lot of points experience down to single day reservations.

 

[NJDave]

Then charge all future resales to join (which they must because everyone is trading in the system), but also include the option to trade points. If fact, make the buy in substatial. Then, resale values get closer to direct (resale cost plus sign up fee), because people would not be shying away from them. They would be treated like Marriot direct buyers. For every resale, Marriott could take a large "vig" for every purchase without doing a thing, no overhead on resales, just cash. Resales in my opinion stay high in value, and Marriott would not discourage the resale market as much because they are getting a commision for every resale forever. Everyone's happy

This is similar to what Hilton does for affilated non-HGVC built resorts but the fee to join is modest and is not mandatory. Even though resale owners are treated the same, the prices are much lower in the resale market.

 

[ecwinch]

And if any of us were in Dave's shoes, we would do the same thing - tell us what Marriott said; I do it all the time (salesreps comments). What; the alternative is to not share what an employee of Marriott said?

Many of us here have profited from the chit-chat that goes on here - that's why we chit-chat.

Is this a confirmed sighting of Perry defending another TUG member? And a moderator at that.

If so I need to go look for some unicorns.

Seriously though - being a late comer to this thread, I appreciate the recap. I never thought a thread based on speculation about a system yet to be released would garner so many posts.

Edit: I now see what is going on. This thread has become a magnet with every owner that has a MVCI axe to grind. It should be renamed the MVCI complaint mash-up thread with pts commentary by PerryM and BocaBum (and others). Interesting stuff, to some degree it is like those year in review shows.

 

[lovearuba]

purpose of the thread

Is this a confirmed sighting of Perry defending another TUG member? And a moderator at that.

If so I need to go look for some unicorns.

Seriously though - being a late comer to this thread, I appreciate the recap. I never thought a thread based on speculation about a system yet to be released would garner so many posts.

Edit: I now see what is going on. This thread has become a magnet with every owner that has a MVCI axe to grind. It should be renamed the MVCI complaint mash-up thread with pts commentary by PerryM and BocaBum (and others). Interesting stuff, to some degree it is like those year in review shows.

I think the thread did just what it was intended to do. Dave got some information probably from a reliable source. He posted it for his friend and got some input. In hindsight it should have probably been posted by Marriott through their forum. I thought it was interesting reading and yes those of us who feel Marriott was not and is not honest with us did once again show our dissatisfaction. I do hope Marriott does not charge higher price for folks that bought resale, that is just wrong so maybe they will see how this went over.