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Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

Twinkstarr

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But take Disney as an example - people can vow to only stay Sun-Thurs in that system, and it's is doing just fine. I don't see it as gaming anything.

For every person who only stays Sun-Thurs, there is an equal number of people who can only stay the weekend (probably more, in fact).

EDIT: I didn't see the other two posts regarding the DVC change. That proves my point - the point cost will be balanced as time goes on to make sure all days are used.

DVC has re-balanced points the last 2 yrs. Just about all our DVC trips include both Fri-Sat nights.
Pre-rebalancing I think I may have been the only person staying on my floor over the weekends!

For week long trips the point total either stayed the same or went up a few points. The biggest decrease came in our long weekend trips, I think our usual MLK weekend(Thurs-Mon) trip went down at certain resorts by 20 pts.

Never did the Sun-Thurs deal myself, but where a lot of people got bit were the ones who bought small contracts to get the 11 month window for certain times of the year(Beach Club for October for Epcot Food & Wine festival, VWL for 1st 2 weeks of December).

We purchased a bit of a cushion when we bought both our contracts and work them by banking and borrowing, booking different size of units(2brs or 3brs).

Though I find it interesting that Marriott has put in a mechanism to stop what DVC'ers call "walking a reservation" ie dropping/adding days to get the exact days you want over a really busy season(NYE) and/or for room categories that have really small # of units(Grand Villas at some resorts, AKV concierge level).
 
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brianfox

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DVC has re-balanced points the last 2 yrs. Just Though I find it interesting that Marriott has put in a mechanism to stop what DVC'ers call "walking a reservation" ie dropping/adding days to get the exact days you want over a really busy season(NYE) and/or for room categories that have really small # of units(Grand Villas at some resorts, AKV concierge level).

I'm not really following this one. Can you give a better example? How is Marriott preventing this?
 

rsackett

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Did DVC keep the cost of a total week the same, and just redistribute the daily points? If so, that sounds reasonable.

I do not own DVC. As I understand their system they keep the same number of points for the resort the same and redistribute the points between weeks and days of the week to try to keep demand equal.

Ray
 
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wuv pooh

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Do enrolled weeks owners who want to trade internally have the option of browsing what is available?

Do you have to commit to an internal or external trade? If I deposie a week and request an internal trade can I change my mind and exchange into a non-Marriott?

How do they manage inventory? How would these trades work? Can you trade up in size or season? How is trade power determined?

Or would trading be the same as it has been only without the fee for an exchange into another Marriott?

1. The answer seems to be yes. The Marriott webpage says you can log on and make requests through intervalworld.com and mentions a $10 fee if you talk to a human for external requests.

2. Yes. If you add any external resorts to a request you have to pay II the additonal II trade fee even if you later accept a Marriott. This is like today where you do not get the reduced Marriott internal rate if you include external resorts.

3. That is a big debate and no one seems to have a definitive answer. Supposedly the points and weeks inventory are kept separate, but Marriott seems to have the ability to move inventory between the systems to satisfy requests.

4. Trading internal Marriott WEEKS through II will be exactly the same as today as far as trading power, up grades, etc. What will change is that Marriott is no longer making inventory from its unsold weeks, MR points exchanges, rentals, etc. available in the WEEKS system. Presumably this will mean less inventory for trade in WEEKS and provide fewer options for uptrades. II will be working hard to get owners equivalent trades.

You will experience the change in trade weeks available regardless if you enroll or not. Weeks owners (those who do not enroll) and Enrolled owners will trade in exactly the same manner for WEEKS through II.

If you enroll you will also have an addtional option to trade through points. The value in points that you are given in trade is about 7% less on average than the points required to trade for the same week, so you lose something to gain the flexibility to book partial weeks.

If you convert your enrolled weeks to points they will be removed from the weeks inventory and placed into the points inventory.
 

hipslo

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13 month window in points - how does it work?

Anyone have any thoughts whether this would apply in the same way as it currently does in weeks, across DIFFERENT properties?

For example, would it be feasible for a premier plus owner to reserve a couple of days at a low point cost resort 13 months in advance of the first check in day, and then, without any gap in days, make a further reservation at the desired "target" resort for the desired high demand week, thus getting the points owner a jump of a couple of days over other points owners for the prime week at the prime resort, without having to burn the points required to make the reservation at the desired resort?

Or would these sorts of reservations all need to be made at the SAME resort?

I have looked at the legal docs and website descriptions on this issue and can't seem to find any guidance either way.
 

wuv pooh

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Anyone have any thoughts whether this would apply in the same way as it currently does in weeks, across DIFFERENT properties?

For example, would it be feasible for a premier plus owner to reserve a couple of days at a low point cost resort 13 months in advance of the first check in day, and then, without any gap in days, make a further reservation at the desired "target" resort for the desired high demand week, thus getting the points owner a jump of a couple of days over other points owners for the prime week at the prime resort, without having to burn the points required to make the reservation at the desired resort?

Or would these sorts of reservations all need to be made at the SAME resort?

I have looked at the legal docs and website descriptions on this issue and can't seem to find any guidance either way.

I have to change my answer. Premier Plus people can do 1 day at 13 months, so that is a great question. Other members are restricted to 1 day reservations at 10 months. Since points members can call in on Tuesday for reservations I would think they automatically get the jump on weeks owners without having to go to another resort to do it.
 
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Stefa

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3. That is a big debate and no one seems to have a definitive answer. Supposedly the points and weeks inventory are kept separate, but Marriott seems to have the ability to move inventory between the systems to satisfy requests.

Is the weeks inventory that is deposited by enrolled owners kept separate from the inventory deposited by non-enrolled owners?
 

hipslo

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No, no one is allowed to make daily reservations until 10 months. 12 and 13 month reservations have to be made in 7 day increments. If you book 7 days and then cancel individual days your points go into the 'holding' account and can only be used within 60 days and cannot be banked.

That is not correct, premier plus can make daily reservations 13 months in advance.
 

wuv pooh

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That is not correct, premier plus can make daily reservations 13 months in advance.

I see that and changed my answer. That is a HUGE advantage for those guys :( Since points can reserve on Tuesday of the week do they need to go to the trouble of booking another resort?
 

banquopack

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Is the weeks inventory that is deposited by enrolled owners kept separate from the inventory deposited by non-enrolled owners?

No, no matter what system you're in, if you deposit a week they all go in together and the group competes together.
 

hipslo

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I see that and changed my answer. That is a HUGE advantage for those guys :( Since points can reserve on Tuesday of the week do they need to go to the trouble of booking another resort?

I am thinking of a points owner that wants to book a prime week, say, starting on saturday, and they want to get a jump on other points owners, and they dont want to spend "expensive" points at that resort to do so, and perhaps they want to call in BEFORE the preceding tuesday, to really get a good jump - so, can they reserve 5 days (beginning the monday prior to the desired saturday) at a cheapo, off season resort, to get a jump, much more cheaply?
 

floyddl

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I see that and changed my answer. That is a HUGE advantage for those guys :( Since points can reserve on Tuesday of the week do they need to go to the trouble of booking another resort?

That is a huge advantage and will result in a lot of breakage. It will keep a lot of weeks from being booked. Hilton requires a minimum of 3 days to be reserved up until the 60 day window.
 

SueDonJ

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Wasn't there something about Holding Account, points for cancelled/amended reservations being put into a Holding Account, with restrictions for re-booking those points? Not sure but I think I remember something ...
 

hipslo

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Wasn't there something about Holding Account, points for cancelled/amended reservations being put into a Holding Account, with restrictions for re-booking those points? Not sure but I think I remember something ...

There is but I am thinking of a scenario that involves simply "throwing away" those points to ensure the desired prime week reservation. It could potentially work with the right combination of prime week and another undesireable resort in the off season where the point cost to reserve mid week is low enought that it wouldnt really be a big issue, potentially. But only if consecutive reservations at DIFFERENT resorts at 13 months are permitted (as they are currently in weeks).
 

wsrobinson

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I checked the number of points for my unit on Sunday , 6/20/2010 and the number was 2600. Today, when I was preparing to enroll, my point value was listed as 1925. A MVC owner representative told me that all other owners at my resort/season had been awarded 1925 points and that this was the first time they had encountered this problem. Unfortunately, I did not print the 2600 point page.

HAs this happened to anyone else?

Yes, when I first looked I had 5750 then it was revised downward to 4200.
 

janna1

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In the new Marriott point system, can you brower points from other owner? What option you have if you don't have enough points for a resort that you want to go? What option you have if you have extra points left?
 

tombo

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But we see this all so differently! I don't expect any company, including Marriott, to put their emphasis on protecting my individual ownership beyond what they're required if by doing so they will be foregoing an opportunity to enhance their business. If they're giving me what they're contractually obligated to give me, then they're upholding their end of our business relationship. If they offer me a product, the responsibility for making that product's terms&conditions available to me lies with them. If I choose to accept the product, the responsibility for understanding the implications of those t&c's lies with me..

There is a BIG difference between protecting your ownership and specifically trying to devalue what you own to make profits for Marriott at previous purchaser's expense. We have been told that Marriott was coming out with a program that will penalize if not kill resales, well they weren't bluffing, here it is. What they are doing affects you and what you own. You own a resale, whether you purchased direct or resale. The dollar value of your week(s) is what you can get if you sell it, and you will be selling a resale. So Marriott is taking money out o your pocket to line theirs, and that is fine by you. As I asked earlier, what other company do you do business with who employs a similar strategy?

I don't figure that I have to "forgive" anything Marriott does as long as I'm getting USAGE value from my Marriott timeshare, because that's what the contracts DO stipulate, that the value in a Marriott timeshare purchase is in its usage. I knew up front what my costs were and how the purchase should have worked for me as a Weeks owner, and the way I see it, I got the usage that I expected based on the terms of the existing contract, which I knew could be subject to some change..

If Marriott was up front in the sales process and said we sell our weeks for $25,000. but once you buy it we will do everything in our power to make sure that you can't sell what you buy from us for more than $8000 because we don't like competing with resales then everyone would know and be informed buyers. If they said we will implement plans and rules that give weeks purchased from us rights that won't transfer to resale owners, then you purchased with full disclosure. if they emphasized that you will get usage per our contract because we are required by law to do so, but anything else we assured you that you would get in this presentation is null and void because we tell you lies to get you to buy, but the only thing that actually counts is what is on the contract, then you knew and bought anyway. If they said we will do anything in our power to make sure resales have almost no access to exchange inventory and we will do our best to kill resales so that their values are as close to zero as possible, then the majority of buyers would really understand what they are being sold and what the item they are purchasing will be worth after they sign the contract.

You now know that Marriott has this as their goal and yet you don't begrudge their sales tactics at all even though killing resale values kills the value of what you own. How many other buyers would buy if they knew this before signing on the dotted line?

In addition you have no problem doing business with a company who's sales reps assured that you could easily exchange for anywhere at anytime. It doesn't matter what you were told and led to believe because all that matters is the contract, not how the company will bend or break rules and laws to make a sale? The salesmen can lie daily with Marriott's blessings and that is OK as long as marriott honors the contract? You can buy into a weeks exchange program basing your purchase on using the weeks exchange progam, but Marriott can make that worthless by inventing a new points program, and that is acceptable as long as they honor what they are required to do per the contract? We really do see this differently.



Marriott isn't my friend or my doting grandfather who should protect me. They're a service provider. It's that simple to me.

I would prefer to do business with a company that I at least feel like I could I trust rather than one I know from past experience I can't trust. As you said with Marriott you have to read every line of the fine print because you are absolutelly sure that they are trying to get over on you as they have before and will again. That is the same kind of trust you get when you buy from Wastegate, but Marriott acts like they are a reputable timeshare company. Their latest program proves that too was a lie.

Please don't call Marriott a service provider, they are as bad as Wastegate. They use lies to sell and then do what they need to in order to not get sued. They have stagnant sales so they invent a new program that you must join or you weeks will not do what you purchased them to do and what you did with them for years. They charge people you sell your week to $2000 to keep a week in points, the same week you already paid $1995 to put into points. They give you 4500 annual points when you deposit yur week, but they charge others 5000 points to stay in the week you deposited making more profit on those who convert.

After thinking about it, I guess in a way Marriott does provide a service. The service Marriott provides is separating their loyal owners from their cash while devaluing their purchase, and doing it all with a smile.
 
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RedDogSD

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What will change is that Marriott is no longer making inventory from its unsold weeks, MR points exchanges, rentals, etc. available in the WEEKS system. Presumably this will mean less inventory for trade in WEEKS and provide fewer options for uptrades. II will be working hard to get owners equivalent trades.

.

No way. I bought this when this was being spread on the board a few days ago, and I finally realized that this is wrong. Marriott cannot create new demand out of thin air. They are not going to have 1 million new points owners overnight AND the point owners that they get are going to try for a lot less prime weeks because they could not afford the 7000 points for a prime week in Maui. So, unlike in the past where every Marriott week owner would try to get the top weeks, now....many of them will try for less exciting weeks because they want to stretch their points.

So, what will Marriott do with the rest of their prime inventory? They will try to rent it. Yeah....and? They have always been trying to rent their prime inventory. They charge too much. THey have to. It would take away from their brand name if they did not charge 3x as much for a 2 bedroom Villa as opposed to a Hotel Room. So, they can try renting until they are blue in the face. They will not get that many takers at those prices.

So, now what? Marriott has exhausted rentals and their points owners, and they still have lots of inventory. Where will it go? The only place that Marriott can drop it where they do not get egg on their face (by renting it cheap) is Interval. So, Interval weeks will still get plenty of inventory for the forseeable future.
 

Numismatist

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No way. I bought this when this was being spread on the board a few days ago, and I finally realized that this is wrong. Marriott cannot create new demand out of thin air. They are not going to have 1 million new points owners overnight AND the point owners that they get are going to try for a lot less prime weeks because they could not afford the 7000 points for a prime week in Maui. So, unlike in the past where every Marriott week owner would try to get the top weeks, now....many of them will try for less exciting weeks because they want to stretch their points.

So, what will Marriott do with the rest of their prime inventory? They will try to rent it. Yeah....and? They have always been trying to rent their prime inventory. They charge too much. THey have to. It would take away from their brand name if they did not charge 3x as much for a 2 bedroom Villa as opposed to a Hotel Room. So, they can try renting until they are blue in the face. They will not get that many takers at those prices.

So, now what? Marriott has exhausted rentals and their points owners, and they still have lots of inventory. Where will it go? The only place that Marriott can drop it where they do not get egg on their face (by renting it cheap) is Interval. So, Interval weeks will still get plenty of inventory for the forseeable future.

I WANT to like this...I really do.
 

wsrobinson

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I actually admire your dedication to principles. Once the smoke clears maybe you will think differently. I do not see it as right or wrong but just different. I was a big loser when DVC left II, I am a big loser under this change because I gamed the system for great trades. However, I also realize that they gravy train does not go on forever. I have earned back the value of my weeks so I have no regrets going forward.

As far as the new system, by my calculations I can realize from 60% to 101% of the value I used to get under the old system. Using straight points for 7 days is always a loser, but using Sun-Thur stays with cash weekend stays that earn MR points can bump me up to over full value depending on the rental rates and my Platinum status. The actual result will depend on whether I can reserve the inventory at 10 months and whether I can get cash reservations. Time will tell, but I have nothing to lose by continuing with the game. Sometime in the near future I am also betting that they create a form of points flexchange that will really open up some interesting opportunities.

I wish you well in your decision.

That's an excellent point that seems to get lost in all this. By staying Sun-Thurs, I can stay 9 nights in my same season/view category. Dropping down to GV I can stay 12 nights. If I trade my week, 7 nights max. So, there is some value there.
 

CapriciousC

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You WILL be able to trade for European resorts exactly the same as today if you enroll. Your annual fee will pay for WEEKS trades to Marriott European resorts that are not available in the POINTS program. If you want to go to Europe you will reserve your week, deposit with II, and trade for no additional charge beyond your annual program fee. Since it is not possible to exchange points for the European resorts today all owners will have to use II WEEKS.

But why would I pay a $700 enrollment fee when I can already do everything I want to do through Interval? I'm not saying that the plan is inherently bad, or that it wouldn't be beneficial for some, I'm just disputing the fact that it's advantageous to everyone who is interested in exchanging. Aside from the enrollment fee, the annual fee for the new points program is more than twice what we pay annually for Interval membership.

The way I see it, joining the new program means that I'm paying more money for options that I don't want. I don't want to do shorter vacations, and I don't want to trade my Waiohai week for another US Marriott resort.

We actually go to Orlando five to six times a year, and always stay at Vacation Club resorts, but we just pay out of pocket. In the last nine months we've booked two bedroom units at three different Orlando properties, and we've never paid more than $160 a night (and that was during Thanksgiving week, Christmas week, and Spring Break). We currently have a reservation for a one-bedroom villa at Grande Vista for the last week of July for $110 a night. I'm not going to trade my Waiohai week or roll it to points to use at Grande Vista when they're practically giving rooms away.
 

floyddl

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That's an excellent point that seems to get lost in all this. By staying Sun-Thurs, I can stay 9 nights in my same season/view category. Dropping down to GV I can stay 12 nights. If I trade my week, 7 nights max. So, there is some value there.

That is true and a silver lining that Marriott will almost surely address. I haven't seen it identified on the points chart but I would have to assume that holiday that fall on Sun-Thurs will be valued with a weekend rate. No way that you get a holiday for a base rate.
 

wsrobinson

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That is true and a silver lining that Marriott will almost surely address. I haven't seen it identified on the points chart but I would have to assume that holiday that fall on Sun-Thurs will be valued with a weekend rate. No way that you get a holiday for a base rate.

At this point that is not the case. I just looked at point values surrounding July 4 at Grande Ocean for an OF room. July 2-3 (Sat-Sun) were 1325/night but weekdays were 550. I bet they change this when they figure it out.
 

SueDonJ

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There is a BIG difference between protecting your ownership and specifically trying to devalue what you own to make profits for Marriott at previous purchaser's expense. We have been told for years thatMarriott was coming out with a program that will penalize if not kill resales. You own a resale, whether you purchased direct or resale, the dollar value of what you have now is what you can get if you sell it, and you will be selling a resale. So Marriott is taking money out o your pocket to line theirs, and that is fine by you. As I asked earlier, what other company do you do business with who employs a similar strategy?



If Marriott was up front in the sales process and said we sell our weeks for $25,000. but once you buy it we will do everything in our power to make sure that you can't sell what you buy from us for more than $8000 because we don't like competing with resales then everyone would know and be informed buyers. If they said we will implement plans and rules that give weeks purchased from us rights that won't transfer to resale owners, then you purchased with full disclosure. if they emphasized that you will get usage per our contract because we are required by law to do so, but we will do anything in our power to make sure resales have almost no access to exchange inventory and we will do our best to kill resales so that their values are as close to zero as possible, then the majority of buyers would really understand what they are being sold and what the item they are purchasing will be worth after they sign the contract.

You now know that Marriott has this as their goal and yet you don't begrudge their sales tactics at all even though killing resale values kills the value of what you own. How many other buyers would buy if they knew this before signing on the dotted line?

In addition you have no problem doing business with a company who's sales reps assured that you could easily exchange for anywhere at anytime. It doesn't matter what you were told and led to believe because all that matters is the contract, not how the company will bend or break rules and laws to make a sale? The salesmen can lie daily with Marriott's blessings and that is OK as long as marriott honors the contract? You can buy into a weeks exchange program basing your purchase on using the weeks exchange progam, but Marriott can make that worthless by inventing a new points program, and that is acceptable as long as they honor what they are required to do per the contract? We really do see this differently.





I would prefer to do business with a company that I at least feel like I could I trust rather than one I know from past experience I can't trust. As you said with Marriott you have to read every line of the fine print because you are absolutelly sure that they are trying to get over on you as they have before and will again. That is the same kind of trust you get when you buy from Wastegate, but Marriott acts like they are a reputable timeshare company. Their latest program proves that too was a lie.

Please don't call Marriott a service provider, they are as bad as Wastegate. They use lies to sell and then do what they need to in order to not get sued. They have stagnant sales so they invent a new program that you must join or you weeks will not do what you purchased them to d, and wat you did with them for years. They charge people you sellyour week to $2000 money to keep a week in points, the same week you paid $1995 to put into points. They give you 4500 annual points when you deposit yur week, but they charge others 5000 points to stay in the week you deposited making more profit on those who convert.

After thinking about it, I guess in a way Marriott does provide a service. The service Marriott provides is separating their loyal owners from their cash.

I can only go by what our sales rep told us prior to our purchase and since. She has never misrepresented the product to us. The contracts that we received upon purchase and could review during the rescission process supported her statements. Nothing Marriott has done since our purchase has been in violation of the contracts. We specifically asked if changes could be made to our ownership and the answer was, "yes, if the contracts allow for Marriott to make them." We were specifically told that exchanging would probably NOT result in a like-for-like trade because 3BR inventory is that much more limited.

Other people's experiences have been different, I'm well aware of that from all of the posts on TUG where folks are made confused by the misrepresentations made by their sales reps. If I was in their shoes, I would feel the same way they do - that Marriott sold them a product promising one thing and delivering another. I can understand their point of view, but I do not share it!

If the product hasn't been misrepresented to me and I do not feel like others do that Marriott has reneged on their promises, why do you keep insisting that I should feel differently? Everyone's experiences with Marriott are not the same, it stands to reason that everyone's feelings about Marriott will not be the same. It's apparent that I'm in the minority, at least here on TUG, but I'm not alone.

As far as whether to enroll or not in this new thing, we've made the decision to enroll based on the appearance that we will be able to make better use of our timeshares in the new system. There are some fantastic features that I was hoping would be included. And some not so fantastic, granted. I don't like everything about it but I'm satisfied we can make it work. Like everyone else, we will learn as much as possible about it in order to maximize our investment in a "vacation lifestyle." That's all any of us can do.

I guess if it makes you feel better, Tombo, I can apologize to you. I'm sorry that I do not feel insulted by Marriott for things that other MVCI owners may have experienced. I'm sorry that I do not agree with your perception, although I am able to understand it and do appreciate that you've taken so much time to try to explain it clearly for me. And I'm being sincere here, because I know that it's difficult to have to repeatedly justify your position on TUG.

The only thing I have a little bit of difficulty accepting completely from you is your newfound outrage over resale devaluation. EVERY external resale purchaser was aware of the fact that Marriott does not protect, is not legally bound to protect, resale values. It is the reason why resales are favored over developer purchasers 99.9999999999 times out of 100 - the cost savings are said to be too good to pass up. So if by buying on the external resale market you've acknowledged in some fashion that devaluation is inherent in Marriott timeshares, how can you now cry "Foul!" when you see that it can affect you as a seller, too? The bad comes with the good, and it doesn't matter whether Marriott cooks up a new scheme to deliberately sabotage resale value or whether it happens naturally - as long as Marriott doesn't do something illegal to cause it, then we have to live with it.
 
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