Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[tombo]

From The FAQ Page:


You don't use the Destination Points unless you want to go to another resort. It has nothing to do with booking your resort week according to this FAQ.

I think the reason for the difference in points from what you receive and what Marriott receives to prevent an over glut of bookings for your week. If it requires more points for the Prime Weeks, then people will be less likely to fight for them. Thus, leaving the prime week members that reserved them through their week's program, not the Destinations Points.

Marriott had 2 owners (me and you) deposit two 5000 points weeks into the bank. I get 4500 points from Marriott for my week they will rent to you fr 5000 points. You get 4500 points for your week Marriott rents me for 5000 points. We both have to buy, rent, or borrow points to have enough to rent the respective weeks even though they were equal deposits. Marriott makes 1000 points profit on the two identical weeks we deposited with Marriott.

Marriott took our 2 weeks we own and pay MF's on, then they charged us to convert to points, charged us an annual membership fee, and they make 1000 points on the 2 identical weeks we deposited and swapped as their icing on the cake. Sure it matters when Marriott give owners less points for depositing their weeks than the amount they charge other owners to rent it, even if you still can use your home resort. If Marriott rents my week for 5000 points, they should give me 5000 points for depositing it. It is my week I purchased, pay taxes on, and pay annual MF's to upgrade, maintain, and renovate my week. Anything less given to the owner of the week than the amount Marriott charges to stay there is downright theft!

 

[ArtsieAng]

I think John was thinking with his gut instead of with his head. Given all the data I have seen, it appears that Marriott is indeed shorting owners on their points. This example is the typical one.

Until I see a mass of owners expressing point values that are greater than what it costs to get that same week, I'll just have to conclude that John couldn't be more wrong.

Jim, I think it's the exact opposite. I have not been allocated enough points to reserve ANY week in my season. Others have stated the exact same situation.......I think most that have been given enough point to reserve within their season have only been given enough points to reserve the less desirable weeks.

There seem to be very few exceptions to the above, as far as I can see.

 

[wsrobinson]

I'm just curious as to what will happen to future resales. It sure seems Marriott should have allowed those purchasing on the resale market after June 20 to consider the points program. It's revenue to Marriott and for every week that converts to points, it's a plus for Marriott's point program. In fact, it would be a source of potential buyers of new points to supplement what they already have. Any thoughts on why the June 20 date was set to exclude future resales. Am I missing something?

I was told yesterday that they are "looking into this". I have a week I bought on Saturday and was told it hadnt been addressed yet but would soon. She said the likely outcome was to allow both recent developer and non-developer purchases into the new system.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think John was thinking with his gut instead of with his head. Given all the data I have seen, it appears that Marriott is indeed shorting owners on their points. This example is the typical one.

Until I see a mass of owners expressing point values that are greater than what it costs to get that same week, I'll just have to conclude that John couldn't be more wrong.

I'm more concerned with how this works than with who is wrong or right, and I think that the answer lies in the fact that the usage point charts we're reviewing are for exchange use and not for use at the home resort of the owned weeks. But I don't know the first thing about discovering if that or something else is the explanation.

It would shock me to learn that any timeshare company is allowed to pluck any number of points out of thin air willy-nilly to sell, and does not have to correlate those numbers to the intervals available for use. Presumably Marriott has filed all the necessary disclosures with all the proper licensing agencies - maybe our resident lawyers can find them.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Sure it matters when Marriott give owners less points for depositing their weeks than the amount they charge other owners to rent it, even if you still can use your home resort. If Marriott rents my week for 5000 points, they should give me 5000 points for depositing it. ...

If you substitute "Marriott Reward Points" for "Destination Club Points" in your example above, do you see that this is EXACTLY the same as what's been occurring with the MRP-exchange option in the current system? I'm not saying this as an excuse, just thinking that the same mechanics for it being allowed (legally) in the optional MRP-exchange system may be what allows it in the optional Points system.

 

[tombo]

I am sure that Marriott justifies skimming points as exchange expenses or some other reason. However they try to justify it, no one at any resort can take their skimmed points allocation and book at any resort that has identical values to what it costs to stay in their deposited week. If the week you deposit is valued by Narriott at 5000 points, you will not be given 5000 points annually to use to trade for another 5000 point week at another comparable resort. This not only ends the good ole days of trading up, this is the end of all like for like trades! Under points you can only trade down. How's that for flexibility?

 

[Y-ASK]

Well I'm leaning towards signing up. I agree with SueDonJ that the system is not for everyone. In my case I will probably never stay at my home resort again. I've got plenty of other options in Orlando so there's no need for Harbour Lakes, but if I can get to the beach on points every other summer when the kids are out of school (I know a big IF), then it will be worth it to me. Also if the summer weeks don't work out then I should be able to use them during the Fall/Winter months to go play golf in either Williamburg or Myrtle Beach.

Plus the ability to possibly rent/transfer points from another owner may allow me to go every summer at a reasonable cost to me.

Speaking of the golf and the Manor Club, I wonder what happens to all those rounds of golf that some owners get each year after they enroll. I think it's like six rounds...

Y-ASK

 

[SueDonJ]

Well I'm leaning towards signing up. I agree with SueDonJ that the system is not for everyone. In my case I will probably never stay at my home resort again. I've got plenty of other options in Orlando so there's no need for Harbour Lakes, but if I can get to the beach on points every other summer when the kids are out of school (I know a big IF), then it will be worth it to me. Also if the summer weeks don't work out then I should be able to use them during the Fall/Winter months to go play golf in either Williamburg or Myrtle Beach.

Plus the ability to possibly rent/transfer points from another owner may allow me to go every summer at a reasonable cost to me.

Speaking of the golf and the Manor Club, I wonder what happens to all those rounds of golf that some owners get each year after they enroll. I think it's like six rounds...

Y-ASK

But you do understand that if you enroll in Points you CAN reserve your week at your resort the exact same way you could before? Availability may become an issue more than it has been, but you are not limited for home resort use by the amount of points you're allotted for exchanges.

 

[wsrobinson]

It seems to me Marriott could have ensured the new program was a success by offering comparable value for the points required to make a week reservation at your resort. The money to be made here is in the volume of members paying the annual fee. By enticing large numbers of members to joing and pay the initiation fee plus annual fee they could have ensured a good inventory of weeks and maximized the revenue from the start. Instead they have chosen to create an inequity that alienates many owners and they will essentially build the point program from the ground up on future sales. Seems somewhat short sighted to forego revenue and to alienate owners at the same time.

I agree completely with this. I think there would be much less negative sentiment regarding the program.

 

[wsrobinson]

Just occurred to me that if you were to join the points program, you are essentially lowering your resale value - if that ever gets figured out. Right now as a deed owner, you have one week (or more depending on number). Once you're in the "club", your points may or may not be enough for a week at the various resorts. Who would that attract on the resale market. So I would think holding a deed to a week may end up being more to folks liking - at a much cheaper price than buying directly from Marriott. I understand that holding a deeded week may end up not being as "flexible" as it previously was, but my deed is becoming more attractive.

Enrolling in the program doesn't dissolve your deed. Your week remains deeded and you can always opt out of the program if you wish.

 

[wuv pooh]

For a multiple week owner the cost of enrollment might make sense over the long run. Our family owns 10 weeks, so the $199/year "club dues" is much less expensive than locking off, exchanging, etc.

BUT we're not falling for it. Reasons? We bought to use, not to trade..

I don't get this. You lose nothing by joining except for the fee to join which is offset by points.

You save a bundle at $199 each year vs. current fees

You NEVER have to actually use points if you don't want to.

You keep the flexibility to use points in the future if it is to your advantage.

You can quit your annual commitment whenever you want if you hate it.

Why would you turn down the savings and flexibility?

You lose nothing by joining and potentially have great benefits in the future. It is a free option on the future.

 

[wuv pooh]

Thank you for this post as you have made me decide not to enroll in the new system. I saw the light.

Again, what is the light? I agree the system sucks, but it is going to be the system going forward. You can join for free/low cost and keep your options open. If you don't join what will happen if II trades dry up? What if Marriott changes the point totals to give people MORE points because they find they made a mistake in the demand? If you opted out will you be able to get back in?

Unless you want to make a statement that Marriott is bad then I don't see the value in closing out your options when no one knows what will happen in the next few years.

 

[Dean]

Argh. Still can't access through the "Enroll Now" button but today's rep said the same thing - there are issues with Macs that they are working on. THANK YOU to everyone who suggested that I could try another browser. But this is a new laptop that runs lightning-fast and has had no problems other than this one - Marriott stuff has always loaded correctly. As long as they say they're working on it and I can eventually get in, I really prefer to not change anything on my comp now that I finally have figured out how to use it! The rep says IT folks are currently not available while the rollout continues - I should give it two days for tweaks and then I can deal directly with IT if the problems continue.

Today's rep gave me a different value for SW 3BR Plat OS - 5,750 as opposed to the 5,000 from yesterday's rep (other values from yesterday are the same.) It looks like what Dean says is correct - SurfWatch 2BR weeks are being given 3BR week values when they access that link. What's interesting is that Don can't access the "Enroll Now" button on our account through his PC browser at work today, so maybe the problem is with SW data and not my Mac? Hmmmmm.

I asked about a rescission period. This rep said that if you commit to enrollment your VISA will be charged and the paperwork (including governing docs) will be sent immediately. If you don't sign and return the contract your VISA will be credited (don't know/remember the time frame?); if you do sign and return the contract you will then have a 4-day right to rescind.

I still won't commit to enrollment until these computer and point inconsistencies are corrected, but this is definitely something that looks like it will work for our ownership ... thanks for helping me figure it out.

Did you try Firefox? I had no problem there but couldn't get through with Safari.

 

[wsrobinson]

Just got off the phone with a supposed "points specialist", and my head is spinning! She's got me confused beyond belief, and I'm hoping someone will be able to clear things up for me.

The questions I posed to her was: if I enroll in the MVCDestination program, what will the maintenance fees be for my units in the following situations: If I do NOT convert a week to Club points in a given year, will my MFs for that year be like they always have been...whatever is determined by the BOD? If I do convert a week to Club points, what will the MF be based on then?

What I was trying to find out is WHEN or IF the $400/1000pts MF calculation comes into play after you enroll in the program if you are a legacy owner.

I was told that, regardless of whether I convert a week to Club points or not, my MFs will be based on MY "beneficial interest" as compared to the total of all "beneficial interests" in the "pot" (Club). She went on to say, in all likelihood, I will end up with LOWER MFs than in the past.

HUH???? Now, I don't understand that AT ALL!

Has anyone else heard anything remotely like this? Does anyone know what the real answer to my question is? :annoyed: Plan to call back to speak to a different rep, but thought someone out there might be able to help also.

From what I have read/seen your maintenance fees will be based on your deeded weeks. When/if you buy additional points from Marriott, then you will have a maintenance fee associated with your points in addition to the MF associated to your deeded weeks.

 

[jhpetri]

As I read the new rules I am confused about the Marriott Rewards part. It says that if your an external owner and your property is "eligible" for reward points (under the new system) you could get them when you sign up for the points program. Which properties are eligible ? Translation please

 

[Dean]

No more than 50% of any week can be taken more than 12 months in advance. Thus, if there are 150 units at a certain resort, no more than 75 of those units for (as an example) week 47 can be reserved more than 12 months in advance. The remainder will be available at 12 months, although points owners might be clamoring for those weeks at 12 months, too! (Note the "for each Use Period" language in my text that you quoted.)

Dave I think Marriott can change this unilaterally because it's a reservation component.

When there's a 500 pound gorilla in the room, it's best not to ignore it.

I was a HUGE Marriott backer. Now that I've seen the plan.....not so much. What can I say, in one stroke of the pen Marriott moved me from supporting them to supporting Perry. If you've followed Perry and my posts, that's not necessarily and easy thing to do. Perry and I have debated various subjects for a long time. This may be the first time we're on the same page.

I was hoping for a plan more friendly to the masses but it still likely works for me and my situation. Still trying to figure out some specific issues though.

Yes, this is exactly what is happening...

We know there is a spread, the question is why. I speculate that at least part of the spread is due to inefficiencies in a day by day reservations system. Interesting to see what answers we get over the next couple of years form Marriott's direction. One can still reserve what you have already and not suffer the spread, nothing lost that is contractual.

But the price of future flexibility is fairy small.

Exactly, there are positives and negatives but the decreased nickel and dime costs are not to be discounted.

 

[wsrobinson]

As I read the new rules I am confused about the Marriott Rewards part. It says that if your an external owner and your property is "eligible" for reward points (under the new system) you could get them when you sign up for the points program. Which properties are eligible ? Translation please

If the property you own sold weeks with RP as an annual/bi-annual trade option, then you would have the option with the new program.

 

[Frisbeeace]

Marriott had 2 owners (me and you) deposit two 5000 points weeks into the bank. I get 4500 points from Marriott for my week they will rent to you fr 5000 points. You get 4500 points for your week Marriott rents me for 5000 points. We both have to buy, rent, or borrow points to have enough to rent the respective weeks even though they were equal deposits. Marriott makes 1000 points profit on the two identical weeks we deposited with Marriott.

Marriott took our 2 weeks we own and pay MF's on, then they charged us to convert to points, charged us an annual membership fee, and they make 1000 points on the 2 identical weeks we deposited and swapped as their icing on the cake. Sure it matters when Marriott give owners less points for depositing their weeks than the amount they charge other owners to rent it, even if you still can use your home resort. If Marriott rents my week for 5000 points, they should give me 5000 points for depositing it. It is my week I purchased, pay taxes on, and pay annual MF's to upgrade, maintain, and renovate my week. Anything less given to the owner of the week than the amount Marriott charges to stay there is downright theft!

Heeelloooo!! This has been happening with the trade-for-points option for years and the spread increases with each devaluation. I get 110,000 Marriott Rewards points for each of my weeks but it takes 180,000 to book at them. The points you get are fixed forever but the amount of points required to redeem a stay goes up periodically. That's how greedy Marriott makes profits with our properties without compensating us accordingly. I bet, we can expect the same with the new system.

 

[taffy19]

Again, what is the light? I agree the system sucks, but it is going to be the system going forward. You can join for free/low cost and keep your options open. If you don't join what will happen if II trades dry up? What if Marriott changes the point totals to give people MORE points because they find they made a mistake in the demand? If you opted out will you be able to get back in?

Unless you want to make a statement that Marriott is bad then I don't see the value in closing out your options when no one knows what will happen in the next few years.

The points I lose are a hidden cost because I have to pay them again if I have to buy back what I had before to get an equivalent week at another resort.

Also, once you enroll, you are in the trust. What happens to your voting rights, etc.? What stops the Marriott from making more changes in the future that make us lose more value or will cost more? What about re-sale values of points?

On top of that we hardly ever exchange and there are other ways to do it.

 

[Y-ASK]

But you do understand that if you enroll in Points you CAN reserve your week at your resort the exact same way you could before? Availability may become an issue more than it has been, but you are not limited for home resort use by the amount of points you're allotted for exchanges.

Yep! I'm pretty comfortable with the procedures and the way the system works. Hopefully I'll be able to find ways to make it even better for my family as time passes...

Y-ASK

And I fully understand the loss of points or skimming as some have called it and I can accept that. The only issue I may have is if I continuely get turned down year after year for the weeks that I really want to use. If that happens I'll just offer up my deed for sale. Maybe someone will want to take advantage of the fact that is is already enrolled and they should be able to pay the additional enrollment fee to transfer it over so they will be able to use it for points as well.

 

[hipslo]

Again, what is the light? I agree the system sucks, but it is going to be the system going forward. You can join for free/low cost and keep your options open. If you don't join what will happen if II trades dry up? What if Marriott changes the point totals to give people MORE points because they find they made a mistake in the demand? If you opted out will you be able to get back in?

Unless you want to make a statement that Marriott is bad then I don't see the value in closing out your options when no one knows what will happen in the next few years.

I am reluctantly beginning to reach the same conclusion. I may enroll even though I have no current intention to ever use points, and do not like the new system. As the owner of 5 weeks, all purchased resale, the ability to pay $400 per week to have all of my weeks become "developer" weeks seems like it may be good insurance, if nothing else.

 

[JimIg23]

I think the points that were allocated where based on purchase price.

NCV: 3475 points (no where near what they want for a summer week - 4700)

Cost PP to join: 9.2?

3475 * 9.2: $31970

A few thosusand short of what a NCV costs....

Does that math work for any other owner?

 

[wsrobinson]

But you do understand that if you enroll in Points you CAN reserve your week at your resort the exact same way you could before? Availability may become an issue more than it has been, but you are not limited for home resort use by the amount of points you're allotted for exchanges.

Sue,

I just tried Firefox on my Mac and that appears to be the problem. Safari just won't allow the "enroll now" button. Also, they updated my point values to 4200 for SurfWatch 2 BD Plat OS. Good luck!

 

[myip]

I am reluctantly beginning to reach the same conclusion. I may enroll even though I have no current intention to ever use points, and do not like the new system. As the owner of 5 weeks, all purchased resale, the ability to pay $400 per week to have all of my weeks become "developer" weeks seems like it may be good insurance, if nothing else.

After conversion, can you convert the club points to Marriott Hotel Points?

 

[wsrobinson]

I think the points that were allocated where based on purchase price.

NCV: 3475 points (no where near what they want for a summer week - 4700)

Cost PP to join: 9.2?

3475 * 9.2: $31970

A few thousand short of what a NCV costs....

Does that math work for any other owner?

In my case, no it comes to $38,640 (unless that's current pricing which may be the case. I also thought the MRP calculation was interesting 4200 * 33 = 138600 (which is really close to the 135K I can currently redeem it for). Are these coincidences???