Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[floyddl]

Marriott has profit to be made off of supplying the best inventory to points members making their new program successful by word of mouth from those who converted. Marriott has zero financial incentive to make sure that weeks owners get prime exchanges, in fact they have financial disencentives because if weeks owners are happy with their II exchanges they will not pay to convert. If weeks owner's trades are poor and limited they might pay Marriott to become points members. All Marriott sales and all new resorts will be based on points, so Marriott has based the future of their entire timeshares sales division on points being a success, and they don't have any incentive to makes sure weeks owners are happy and get good trades. CEO's and top mgt have their reputations and possibly careers tied to the success of the points program they invented and implemented. All financial and non financial incentives for Marriott favor points over weeks, and they like any company will focus on what is most profitable for the company. Any CEO will also do what is best for their company's bottom line or they will quickly become a "non agent of Marriott" too.

By the way, are we back to this again? Earlier in this thread before the program was launched you used the same quote about statements made by non agents of Marriott after which I said using your own criteria you are either an agent of Marriott, or your postulations and posts are ALSO simply more statements of fact that can't be proven posted by a non agent of Marriott.

Please use the same standards for your posts that you love to place on others rather than the double standard where your posts and theories are correct and others are mistatements made by non agents. You apparently love Marriott, defended them with your "facts" before the program was rolled out, and you are back defending them again. Feel free to defend your employer (my guess by a non agent), but read the posts and realize that you are in the minority. Most here feel that the new program is bad for owners, including many who supported Marriott before the program's details were announced.

It seems to me Marriott could have ensured the new program was a success by offering comparable value for the points required to make a week reservation at your resort. The money to be made here is in the volume of members paying the annual fee. By enticing large numbers of members to joing and pay the initiation fee plus annual fee they could have ensured a good inventory of weeks and maximized the revenue from the start. Instead they have chosen to create an inequity that alienates many owners and they will essentially build the point program from the ground up on future sales. Seems somewhat short sighted to forego revenue and to alienate owners at the same time.

 

[joyzilli]

Well I just enrolled my two EOY in the points program. I have one at Aruba Surf Club 2BR Gold OS that is worth 3075 and honestly we plan to use that one every year so I don't really care about it being enrolled but since it cost the same for me to enroll one or both I figured what the heck.


Just Curious: My "every year" Aruba Surf Club Gold OV is also worth 3075 points. Can this be a mistake that your EOY is worth the same as my EY and the only difference is the OS vs. OV?

According to the points chart - the OS and OV units are given the same value. Something doesn't seem right.

 

[tombo]

It seems to me Marriott could have ensured the new program was a success by offering comparable value for the points required to make a week reservation at your resort. The money to be made here is in the volume of members paying the annual fee. By enticing large numbers of members to joing and pay the initiation fee plus annual fee they could have ensured a good inventory of weeks and maximized the revenue from the start. Instead they have chosen to create an inequity that alienates many owners and they will essentially build the point program from the ground up on future sales. Seems somewhat short sighted to forego revenue and to alienate owners at the same time.

Sure what a simple eqitable way to run the points. My resort/week/season costs 5000 points to reserve, marriott charges points members 5000 points to stay in my week, marriott is going to give me 5000 points when i deposit my week which will let me exchange for any marriott resort each year that costs 5000 points or less.

Of course if they had done that they would n't have built in the points profit cushion they currently enjoy. Marriott is making money on conversions, annual membership fees, points sales and rentals, but that wasn't enough,they had to short almost every owner and not give them what their week is worth when it is deposited internally. they had to get greedy and make money on the exchanges too and make money ($2000) on all points owners resales lining their pockets further while killing resale prices. What a greedy company they have turned out to be.

 

[Slakk]

Just Curious: My "every year" Aruba Surf Club Gold OV is also worth 3075 points. Can this be a mistake that your EOY is worth the same as my EY and the only difference is the OS vs. OV?

I only get my points during my use year not every year like you do.

 

[Slakk]

According to the points chart - the OS and OV units are given the same value. Something doesn't seem right.

Yeah I saw that too..I think that is weird

 

[wesley]

Can't get info on MOW and BPT values in points...

I can't seem to get on the MVCI website and find out what our Marriott purchased Gold week is worth, nor our EOY resale purchase of BPT Gold... Anybody know what these are worth. FYI - We have NEVER exchanged in 8 years of ownership - we go to MOW the last week in Aug every year and love it. I can't see any advantage to us joining the new program, since we don't exchange. But I might be willing to invest $600 to leave my options open - I sure am not interested in adding another $1400 to get an EOY at BPT in the mix. Would rather just exchange BPT through Interval... Anybody got a take on our situation??

This is fun!!
See you MOW'ers in SC in Aug...
Wesley

 

[Whirl]

Barony Platinum OS and OF and Monarch GV

I tried to search to see if this was already posted. Saw nothing, so FWIW...

Barony Beach Platinum

Ocean Side - 4200
Ocedan Front -5025

Monarch Platinum

GardenView -2500

 

[floyddl]

If Marriott effectively exchanges with II to get the high demand weeks, do you think they will be able to swap a week for a week or will they have to deposit shoulder weeks with a total point value equal to the high demand weel?

I think interval makes the money on the trade no matter what the week is so it really doesn't matter to them whether the get Platinum Plus week or a shoulder Platinum. Sure, the better inventory they offer members the more likely members are to stick. As long as Marriott controls what gets deposited with II then they are likely to shape it so they get max benefit. I know that Hilton does the same thing with RCI. They don't give RCI premium weeks when owners request a trade and in the end it is harder to get a quality exchange. I could be way off base and Marriott is going to deposit the same week that I own when I make an exchange but it seems unlikely since I don't see where II has any leverage what so ever on Marriott.

 

[GregT]

It seems to me Marriott could have ensured the new program was a success by offering comparable value for the points required to make a week reservation at your resort. The money to be made here is in the volume of members paying the annual fee. By enticing large numbers of members to joing and pay the initiation fee plus annual fee they could have ensured a good inventory of weeks and maximized the revenue from the start. Instead they have chosen to create an inequity that alienates many owners and they will essentially build the point program from the ground up on future sales. Seems somewhat short sighted to forego revenue and to alienate owners at the same time.

This is exactly how I feel.

Marriott would have skimmed 1,575 from the points for each of my weeks -- that's $630 in MF-value that Marriott will pocket if I ever enrolled and redeemed my property for points, for each week.

If someone's week is worth 4,500 points accordingly to Marriott, but Marriott skims 900 points from that week and only gives 3,600 points, that's $360 in hidden profit to Marriott on the exchange.

I'm using MF-value because someone, somewhere will buy points from Marriott to use in this system, and they'll pay $400 for every 1,000 points.

Isn't the up-front of $695 and annual fee of $199 enough? Did they have to skim too?

They must have done a financial calculation and figured out that they're better off skimming from 5% of the existing owners who join then getting direct cash in up-front payments/annual fees if 25% of the existing owners joined. Very callous and damaging to their brand with their formally loyal owners.

My letter to Marriott:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124262

 

[markbernstein]

We have an Oceana Palms 2BR Gold OV, for which we're being offered 2625 points. Even though Oceana Palms doesn't officially have a Silver season, reserving our same unit would be 2000 points for four hot weeks in August/September, 2950 points for any other Gold week. So yeah, it looks at first glance (I haven't brought up a calculator) like 2625 is close to an average for the Gold season. Of course, that's just an intellectual exercise, since this is our home resort. The bigger question is the ability to reserve at other resorts.

At this point, I'm undecided. The negative is that the value isn't as great as I would have liked, and I'm certainly not going to spend over $36K to get the 4000 points we'd need to move up to Premier status.

The positives: Enrolling is relatively low cost and low risk, given that we still have all the options we had before. And the "one annual fee" structure, even with only one unit that doesn't lock off, is pretty close to even. It also gives us some flexibility, with the options for shorter reservations, and the possibility of doing a lockoff-like expansion into two reservations for our one week, if we go with 1BR units for just the two of us and/or choose lower-points alternatives.

This year, we exchanged our 2009 and 2010 weeks for 1BR at both Maui Ocean Club and Kauai Beach Club in early January. Both of those show as pretty close to even trades by the point charts. For 2011, we want to take the grandkids to Disney World, so we want a 3BR in Orlando in either spring break or summer vacation season. On a points basis, we can't get that in Lakeshore Reserve or Grande Vista, but we can get into Imperial Palms, which would be an acceptable alternative. But for now, I can wait to see if II gets us into Lakeshore, and switch to points and reserve at Imperial Palms later if needed.

Questions: Has anyone heard how long the "Plus Points" offer will last? Right now, the MVCI site is showing an offer of 800 PP. Is that universal? (I also wonder if they'll offer any option to purchase PPs, for those times when you're just a little short of what you need for the reservation you want.)

 

[timeos2]

You used to get the benefit without knowing (and paid too)

Sure what a simple eqitable way to run the points. My resort/week/season costs 5000 points to reserve, marriott charges points members 5000 points to stay in my week, marriott is going to give me 5000 points when i deposit my week which will let me exchange for any marriott resort each year that costs 5000 points or less.

Of course if they had done that they would n't have built in the points profit cushion they currently enjoy. Marriott is making money on conversions, annual membership fees, points sales and rentals, but that wasn't enough,they had to short almost every owner and not give them what their week is worth when it is deposited internally. they had to get greedy and make money on the exchanges too and make money ($2000) on all points owners resales lining their pockets further while killing resale prices. What a greedy company they have turned out to be.

Last time for this one. IF they gave you and every other owner the maximum value week of all weeks in your season - say it was 5000 - where would those points come from? Then you really would have a system with no basis as there are only a few weeks of your season worth 5000 - the rest are 4500 or even 4000 - yet every owner got 5000. It doesn't add up and that's why they didn't/can't do it.

The only other real option was to make those premium weeks the same value as all the others in the season - say 4000. So now all owners get 4000. Seems fair. But those weeks would be more in demand so immediately wise members snatch them up as a bargain. The method of properly distributing inventory - through proper valuation & thus reasonable demand - is gone. You really wouldn't be able to get your own weeks as they would blow out before any others that were properly priced in points.

That's as clear as I can make it and can't beat my head against this wall of misinterpretation anymore. Bottom line - the way a points system works is to spread the value to all then let the members distribute the inventory by using up the points. The process is different than a week for week trade where there are guaranteed winners & losers - points balance out on requests from the users rather than luck of the draw/timing of a flat week fore week exchange model. For every one of the trades you got that you now know had a higher value than your actual week had there was another week owner that had to take the lesser value week & they got the loss you now are claiming as "skim" in points. 'Taint so. End of best effort to explain this part of the system.

 

[ArtsieAng]

timeos2

That's as clear as I can make it and can't beat my head against this wall of misinterpretation anymore. Bottom line - the way a points system works is to spread the value to all then let the members distribute the inventory by using up the points.

OK, so if Marriott gives every 2 bdrm platinum season OV owner 4075 points for their week, and then charges 4125-4650 points for the same exact weeks, how does this fit into your above scenario? I admit, I don't get it.

 

[wuv pooh]

That's as clear as I can make it and can't beat my head against this wall of misinterpretation anymore. Bottom line - the way a points system works is to spread the value to all then let the members distribute the inventory by using up the points. The process is different than a week for week trade where there are guaranteed winners & losers - points balance out on requests from the users rather than luck of the draw/timing of a flat week fore week exchange model. For every one of the trades you got that you now know had a higher value than your actual week had there was another week owner that had to take the lesser value week & they got the loss you now are claiming as "skim" in points. 'Taint so. End of best effort to explain this part of the system.

John, I get this, but is there any reason why the total points do not seem to match? For my Harbour Lake Gold:

There are currently 20 weeks x 1,950 = 39,000 total points

in the new system there are 8 x 1,725 and 12 x 2,225 = 40,400 total points

Shouldn't everyone have received 2,020 points = 40,400/20

If everyone converted they could not exchange the points given for the points required for the season. What happened to those points? Is that a skim or a required cost of flexibility for some reason?

I also note that 2 former platinum weeks have been demoted to gold status so that will change things slightly.

 

[floyddl]

Last time for this one. IF they gave you and every other owner the maximum value week of all weeks in your season - say it was 5000 - where would those points come from? Then you really would have a system with no basis as there are only a few weeks of your season worth 5000 - the rest are 4500 or even 4000 - yet every owner got 5000. It doesn't add up and that's why they didn't/can't do it.

The only other real option was to make those premium weeks the same value as all the others in the season - say 4000. So now all owners get 4000. Seems fair. But those weeks would be more in demand so immediately wise members snatch them up as a bargain. The method of properly distributing inventory - through proper valuation & thus reasonable demand - is gone. You really wouldn't be able to get your own weeks as they would blow out before any others that were properly priced in points.

That's as clear as I can make it and can't beat my head against this wall of misinterpretation anymore. Bottom line - the way a points system works is to spread the value to all then let the members distribute the inventory by using up the points. The process is different than a week for week trade where there are guaranteed winners & losers - points balance out on requests from the users rather than luck of the draw/timing of a flat week fore week exchange model. For every one of the trades you got that you now know had a higher value than your actual week had there was another week owner that had to take the lesser value week & they got the loss you now are claiming as "skim" in points. 'Taint so. End of best effort to explain this part of the system.

I own fixed week at a resort with only one fixed week. Yet I am offered 5250 for a week that it takes 5400 to reserve. While I understand your point on spreading the total over a season there is really no good reason to devalue a week that is a season to itself.

 

[tombo]

John in addition to the above examples which show that even fixed week owners aren't getting the points that their week costs (a ripoff with no justifiable explanation), Marriott could have still given all Platinum weeks at XYZ resort the same 5000 point value and made it first come first served. Right now all platinum owners have the access to all weeks that are platinum. Why now make it where ZERO platinum week owners have enough points to reserve the half of the platinum season weeks which are now deemed to be prime weeks?

You are going on averages and marriott isn't looking good using that criteria either. Most points are awarded at below the overall average for the season at most resorts from all who have done the calculations. Points shouldn't make it where Marriott gets top points for exchanging weeks but owners never get enough points to get it next year. No one can afford the prime in season weeks next year if they bank their points.

Give all like weeks/seasons at a resort identical points and charge identical points for the person getting the week as you reward the one who deposited an in season week. Let all who have enough points reserve weeks, days, etc, by who is first on the phone, like it was before and will be again once enough people swap to points. Do not make certain non platinum plus weeks suddenly out of reach of platinum weeks owners who swap to points and expect owners to feel the points allocations are equitable.

 

[SueDonJ]

- They're still having problems with some computers accessing that "Enroll Now" link so I called in to get my points info ... our ownership works out to:
Barony 2BR Gold OF, 3,725 points (4,000 highest exchange in season)
SW 3BR Gold OV, 4,625 (4,950 highest exchange in season)
SW 3BR Plat OS, 5,000 (6,175 highest exchange in season)
(Of course I will get this verified through a working link or in writing before I rely on it. For now it's the basis for my thinking.) ...

The link just worked for me. Interesting that the link gives me a value of 5750 for SW Plat OS 2 BR. BTW 6175 is the point value for a 3 BR Plat OS week. 5000 is the point value for a 2 BR Plat OS week.

My value was from the website while SueDonJ wasn't able to get into the site yet. My number is accurate, I just re-checked it.

I'm sure this is answered later but it looks like they've inadvertently listed 3 BR points for 2 BR weeks. My SW GV unit (ALL 2 BR Platinum listed) is listed 4650, O Vista 6050. ...

Argh. Still can't access through the "Enroll Now" button but today's rep said the same thing - there are issues with Macs that they are working on. THANK YOU to everyone who suggested that I could try another browser. But this is a new laptop that runs lightning-fast and has had no problems other than this one - Marriott stuff has always loaded correctly. As long as they say they're working on it and I can eventually get in, I really prefer to not change anything on my comp now that I finally have figured out how to use it! The rep says IT folks are currently not available while the rollout continues - I should give it two days for tweaks and then I can deal directly with IT if the problems continue.

Today's rep gave me a different value for SW 3BR Plat OS - 5,750 as opposed to the 5,000 from yesterday's rep (other values from yesterday are the same.) It looks like what Dean says is correct - SurfWatch 2BR weeks are being given 3BR week values when they access that link. What's interesting is that Don can't access the "Enroll Now" button on our account through his PC browser at work today, so maybe the problem is with SW data and not my Mac? Hmmmmm.

I asked about a rescission period. This rep said that if you commit to enrollment your VISA will be charged and the paperwork (including governing docs) will be sent immediately. If you don't sign and return the contract your VISA will be credited (don't know/remember the time frame?); if you do sign and return the contract you will then have a 4-day right to rescind.

I still won't commit to enrollment until these computer and point inconsistencies are corrected, but this is definitely something that looks like it will work for our ownership ... thanks for helping me figure it out.

 

[timeos2]

It is the average - always higher than the lowest but well under highest value week

OK, so if Marriott gives every 2 bdrm platinum season OV owner 4075 points for their week, and then charges 4125-4650 points for the same exact weeks, how does this fit into your above scenario? I admit, I don't get it.

The 4075 would represent each weeks share of the total pot of points represented by the season/designation of say "Platinum". Within that designation would be a number of weeks - some worth a low of 4125 up to some worth 4650. Based on that the real number assigned to each owner week would actually fall between 4125 and 4650. Probably on the lower end like 4320 as there tend to be more lower value weeks than higher ones in most groupings. The average number obviously cannot be lower than the minimum value of any one week so 4075 isn't a possible assigned value.

Hope that helps.

 

[hipslo]

The 4075 would represent each weeks share of the total pot of points represented by the season/designation of say "Platinum". Within that designation would be a number of weeks - some worth a low of 4125 up to some worth 4650. Based on that the real number assigned to each owner week would actually fall between 4125 and 4650. Probably on the lower end like 4320 as there tend to be more lower value weeks than higher ones in most groupings. The average number obviously cannot be lower than the minimum value of any one week so 4075 isn't a possible assigned value.
Hope that helps.

except that that's exactly what they've done....

 

[tombo]

Today's rep gave me a different value for SW 3BR Plat OS - 5,750 as opposed to the 5,000 from yesterday's rep (other values from yesterday are the same.) It looks like what Dean says is correct - SurfWatch 2BR weeks are being given 3BR week values when they access that link. What's interesting is that Don can't access the "Enroll Now" button on our account through his PC browser at work today, so maybe the problem is with SW data and not my Mac? Hmmmmm.


I still won't commit to enrollment until these computer and point inconsistencies are corrected, but this is definitely something that looks like it will work for our ownership ... thanks for helping me figure it out.

The whole thing you were excited about was getting credit for a 3 bed room unit when you trade rather than 2 bed rooms exchanges like in the past. Are you getting enough to book a 2 bed room similar week/resort and a one bed room week/ resort with your 3 bed room using points? Nope. 5750 points won't even get you a 2 bed room at a lot of resorts.

Now Marriott gives your 3 bed room unit 5750 points (the same number of points as a 2 bed room unit) and it seems like points will work out good for you? How can getting less than enough points than are required for a week stay in a good 2 bed room be an improvement over what you had before? you could trade for almost any 2 bed room unit using your 3 bed room before. Now many 2 bed room units are beyond your purchasing power using your 3 bed room's annual points allocation. Please do tell how this is an improvement as for example what weeks can you trade for now using points that were out of reach before.

 

[MountainGal]

Just occurred to me that if you were to join the points program, you are essentially lowering your resale value - if that ever gets figured out. Right now as a deed owner, you have one week (or more depending on number). Once you're in the "club", your points may or may not be enough for a week at the various resorts. Who would that attract on the resale market. So I would think holding a deed to a week may end up being more to folks liking - at a much cheaper price than buying directly from Marriott. I understand that holding a deeded week may end up not being as "flexible" as it previously was, but my deed is becoming more attractive.

 

[tombo]

The average number obviously cannot be lower than the minimum value of any one week so 4075 isn't a possible assigned value.

Really, explain these:

I own fixed week at a resort with only one fixed week. Yet I am offered 5250 for a week that it takes 5400 to reserve. While I understand your point on spreading the total over a season there is really no good reason to devalue a week that is a season to itself.

Is anyone else not able to reserve a week at their home resort?

I have a silver week at Legend's Edge. It is worth 1,150 pts. I need 1,225 to reserve my same week at Legend's Edge under the new program.

The lowest amount of points needed to reserve any 2 bdrm, OV week in platinum season at the Aruba Surf & Ocean Clubs is 4,125 points. It goes from 4,125 - 4,650....Platinum Plus weeks are 6,250 - 6,875.

Marriott is only giving us 4,075 points. We do not have enough points to reserve ANY week in our season.

There were a ton of examples of fixed week wners who don't get as many points as their season costs even though the average for their season is identical to the points because it is a one week season. A couple of owners who don't have enough points to trade for ANY week at their resort, and many other hard to explain away facts, however the thread has been merged or moved and I can't find it. Above are a few of the many examples posting here.

 

[IngridN]

The Marriott word is enroll.

If you choose to enroll you maintain all your current rights, and add the option to access the new Marriott internal trade system by opting to convert to the new points.

If you choose not to enroll you maintain all your current rights, but will not have access to the new Marriott internal trade system.

You can currently enroll for a small fee that is offset by 800 points in the new system.

It is unclear under what terms you will be allowed to enroll in the future if you do not take advantage of the current offer.

This is what makes the most sense for me, HOWEVER, and that's a big if, it's too good to be true, and you know the saying about that. Supposedly, the only upside is the savings by paying a $199 club fee vs. all the a la carte fees. What's the downside...there's got to be one.

Ingrid

 

[Numismatist]

Just occurred to me that if you were to join the points program, you are essentially lowering your resale value - if that ever gets figured out. Right now as a deed owner, you have one week (or more depending on number). Once you're in the "club", your points may or may not be enough for a week at the various resorts. Who would that attract on the resale market. So I would think holding a deed to a week may end up being more to folks liking - at a much cheaper price than buying directly from Marriott. I understand that holding a deeded week may end up not being as "flexible" as it previously was, but my deed is becoming more attractive.

If I join the points program with my deeded week, then I decide to sell my timeshare for good...would I be selling points then or selling my deeded week then?

 

[ArtsieAng]

The 4075 would represent each weeks share of the total pot of points represented by the season/designation of say "Platinum". Within that designation would be a number of weeks - some worth a low of 4125 up to some worth 4650. Based on that the real number assigned to each owner week would actually fall between 4125 and 4650. Probably on the lower end like 4320 as there tend to be more lower value weeks than higher ones in most groupings. The average number obviously cannot be lower than the minimum value of any one week so 4075 isn't a possible assigned value.

Hope that helps.

except that that's exactly what they've done....

Yup.....That's exactly what they've done......According to John, the fair amount of points for each week to have been alloted would have been approx. 4320, not 4075.

 

[DanaTom]

If I join the points program with my deeded week, then I decide to sell my timeshare for good...would I be selling points then or selling my deeded week then?

I just asked that question of a sales rep and she had to get a supervisor. Apparently if you opt in to the points program, when you sell... the points option goes away. I was told this is true for resort purchase or resale purchases on any future resale. They indicated that existing owners have a deeded week and that doesn't go away. The potential new future owner would have to then opt in to the points program... if they are allowed to, and at a price to be determined then. The current conversion price is stated as a "promotion" price.

It will be interesting to see if you buy new (points), are those sellable at a later date? Let's see how the sales reps spin that if they have no future marketability.