Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[JeffW]

There is no viable lawsuit here (I am an attorney).
You are not forced to buy into the program.
You can keep what you bought - you were never guaranteed any SPECIFIC trade -- only the right to use your unit in the season you bought and the ability to trade into other resorts (WHERE UNITS ARE AVAILABLE)....

I'll admit unfront I'm lazy, not waiting to read the next 20+ pages before asking a question.

Aren't vacation club points systems regulated somehow? I thought in the past (maybe in the 80's), there were big problems, because 'vacation club' systems were selling more occupancy (whether via weeks, points, credits, whatever) then actually existed. I'm not a lawyer, or an accountant, but it seems incredibly simple that whatever 'time' one is selling exactly has to match availability.
Doesn't Marriott have to get licensed in each state it does sales in? Is a state going to okay to okay Marriott saying, "Your week is worth x points if you want to bank it, but x+y if you'd want to exchange into your exact same week?" I know someone said it's basically like a commission on the points exchange, but I'd really like to know the officiial spin from Marriott on how they explain this.

Jeff

 

[Suzy]

Is anyone else not able to reserve a week at their home resort?

I have a silver week at Legend's Edge. It is worth 1,150 pts. I need 1,225 to reserve my same week at Legend's Edge under the new program.

 

[thinze3]

It's really simple

Is anyone else not able to reserve a week at their home resort?

I have a silver week at Legend's Edge. It is worth 1,150 pts. I need 1,225 to reserve my same week at Legend's Edge under the new program.

You don't have to join. You can reserve your week and go to MLE or deposit it with II if you want to. OR if you want to add all the flexibility of the new system, you will have to pay to join and then give up a few of your club points each year.

 

[wuv pooh]

Is anyone else not able to reserve a week at their home resort?

I have a silver week at Legend's Edge. It is worth 1,150 pts. I need 1,225 to reserve my same week at Legend's Edge under the new program.

No. Everyone can reserve a week at their home resort. It appears that most people cannot exchange for the same week into their home resort via the new method.

They are two different things.

 

[pacheco18]

Another concern

I have never been suspicious but

Now that we will have 2 classes of Marriott owners - points owners and the non points owners (3 if you count the resale folks who cannot buy in), will those of us who choose not to convert to points be "punished" by getting less desirable locations when we reserve? Let's not forget that Marriott knows everything about our Marriott ownership is able to honor requests as they see fit.

Can't wait to get the next survey from Marriott with all those questions such as

Marriott really cares about me
I trust Marriott LOLOL

 

[wuv pooh]

Re: Skimming

Some observations on whether Marriott is skimming points or not:

At Manor Club they have reduced the number of Platinum weeks by 3 and increased the number of Silver Weeks.

I can now buy 4 former Platinum weeks for less than my allocation and 32 for more than my allocation. I cannot tell if the total points balance because I do not know the allocation for Gold and Silver.

At Harbour Lake they have reduced the number of Platinum weeks by 2 and increased the number of Gold Weeks.

I can now buy 8 former Gold weeks for less than my allocation and 12 for more. I cannot tell if the total points balance because I do not know the allocation for Platinum and Platinum Plus.


Part of the reallocation is moving former Platinum weeks to lower demand. This will offset some of the reduction, but not clear if it balances. I assume this is the same for each resort.

If anyone can provide the following allocations I can see if it balances:

Manor Club Silver
Manor Club Gold
Harbour Lake Platinum
Harbour Lake Platinum Plus

 

[MountainGal]

I'm just curious as to what will happen to future resales. It sure seems Marriott should have allowed those purchasing on the resale market after June 20 to consider the points program. It's revenue to Marriott and for every week that converts to points, it's a plus for Marriott's point program. In fact, it would be a source of potential buyers of new points to supplement what they already have. Any thoughts on why the June 20 date was set to exclude future resales. Am I missing something?

 

[awb]

marriott's new timeshare points system

I can tell you this is all about Marriott selling more timeshare not about Owners advantages. I will not be converting my ownership to points. Here are a few points everyone needs to consider.

1. When Marriott builds new resorts that they say have more amenities or expensive location to build at. They will most likely charge more points to stay at those resorts which will require owners to purchase more points. Right now if you own a week you just exchange to go there. This will devalue your ownership if you have points.

2. You lose the ability to trade up in size or season like you can do now. In the past I have taken my studio side and traded for a 2 bedroom, and my 1 bedroom side and traded for a 2 bedroom. If you have points those days are gone. When you go to exchange they will tell you how many points it takes to stay there for that week and size unit you want. You will no longer be able to exchange up in size or season.

3. When you go to exchange Interval International still needs something to exchange they can't just take air. Under the trust scenario who decides what gets traded because you know Interval Iinternational will still want the property with the best trading value. They are in the business of exchanging they want the best they can get to exchange.

4. Here is a question, if someone trades a week from the traditional weeks system can Interval International give away 3 or 4 days of that week to points owners, or will it be held for weeks owners. Hummm.

5. In the future those of us that have weeks may have more value to our ownership because 1 week is a week anywhere. People will begin to seek out our inventory to buy it which will enhance the value of what we own.

These are just a few things I have thought about in the last 10 minutes, just think about all the issues that will come up in the next few months. We need to see if we can challenge this with Marriott if not then those of us that have weeks need to get the word out that converting to points is not a good idea

 

[Numismatist]

I see the word 'convert' used a lot herein. If one joins the points system and pay the $595 or whatever, what have you 'converted'? You can still keep your week and stay there. I'm not giving up a deeded week by joining?

 

[heathpack]

I have never been suspicious but

Now that we will have 2 classes of Marriott owners - points owners and the non points owners (3 if you count the resale folks who cannot buy in), will those of us who choose not to convert to points be "punished" by getting less desirable locations when we reserve? Let's not forget that Marriott knows everything about our Marriott ownership is able to honor requests as they see fit.

Can't wait to get the next survey from Marriott with all those questions such as

Marriott really cares about me
I trust Marriott LOLOL

Marriott is selling points now, so I have to believe that whenever possible they will give the advantage to points owners.

H

 

[timtax]

II inventory siphoning

You assume that inventory will be available through II at your home resort for the week you need. Marriott will be siphoning off prime II inventory to put into points inventory and depositing shoulder weeks leaving weeks owners fighting for less and less good inventory.

If Marriott effectively exchanges with II to get the high demand weeks, do you think they will be able to swap a week for a week or will they have to deposit shoulder weeks with a total point value equal to the high demand weel?

 

[deedman]

You don't have to join. You can reserve your week and go to MLE or deposit it with II if you want to. OR if you want to add all the flexibility of the new system, you will have to pay to join and then give up a few of your club points each year.

I love how this guy keeps talking about the "flexibility" of the new system. The only flexibility there is is giving them the chance to screw you worse than this initial screw. You sign up, give them your money, get less points than it actually takes to book the same week or season, and THE worst part of all - they have the power to change the points values at any given time. What makes you think if they are screwing people straight out of the gate they won't do this continually, especially if this doomed before it began points system doesn't take off, they will continue to juice current owners year after year in my opinion. The slim amount of people this system actually works for have no guarantee that the values to stay at resorts won't go up and they will be in the same position as everyone else, needing more points that can only be bought retail.

 

[KarenP]

No developer deposits, no MR deposits, no points deposits, and pretty soon there will be very limited Marriott trades available through II.

Won't this make Marriott week deposits into II more valuable? Or am I missing something?

 

[scrapngen]

I see the word 'convert' used a lot herein. If one joins the points system and pay the $595 or whatever, what have you 'converted'? You can still keep your week and stay there. I'm not giving up a deeded week by joining?

Correct. It also looks like you can choose to leave the program. However, once you leave, it will be very cost prohibitive to return.

Yes, you have your deed and can make a yearly decision as to whether to use your weeks as "points" or reserve it at your home resort as a week in your season under the previous rules. (12/13 month reservation windows)

Yes, you can deposit in II.

However, once you join - you are now a member of the club and there are other very specific pieces to the contract that should be evaluated. ie. the previous posts regarding voting rights, and Marriott's rights to change the program in ANY way at ANY time. (subject to state and federal laws about TS)

And, regardless of your decision, reservations and II availability will be affected in some way for everyone. Just as the 13 month rule changed availability for everyone whether or not they were eligible.

Those who say this doesn't change ANYTHING for you if you choose not to join, or if you choose to join but not activate your week into points in a given year (this includes Marriott's FAQ's about new program) are burying their heads in the sand, because from now on, there is a new program that will impact current resorts and usage.

Those who will benefit by joining appear to be a far smaller group than I expected, however. Yet I am sure some of the joiners will not have evaluated as carefully as those following this thread. If I currently owned the equivalent of 13000 points and/or spent more than $200 in misc. fees every year that will now be consolidated I would be very likely to try it out.

**I think everyone loses when the points are skimmed, though. Other points companies don't seem to do that. (Your value at home resort as an average is equal to other's who exchange in - not uniformly 7% or more less: this is especially apparent with fixed weeks as it is easily verified)

 

[jimf41]

I see the word 'convert' used a lot herein. If one joins the points system and pay the $595 or whatever, what have you 'converted'? You can still keep your week and stay there. I'm not giving up a deeded week by joining?

Correct. Most folks seem to getting lost in the points scenarios. If you want to go somewhere other than where you own then you have to use the point conversions. If you want to use your week at your resort then just call MVCI like always and reserve what you chose.

I own Platinum and Silver weeks at Ocean Pointe. The Plat week does not come with enough points to trade back in to the resort for 11 of the 17 weeks of the former plat season. No problem, I'll call MVCI and reserve my week as I always do.

My Silver week however has an 150 point surplus on the week I normally choose but I can now choose the entire former Gold season if I choose. I normally go in OCT-NOV but if I choose SEP I get an 1150 point surplus. If I choose to stay in an OS instead of an OF I save an additional 1000 points. On this unit I'll use the new point system and come out way ahead.

Seems to be a good deal to me.

 

[wuv pooh]

Won't this make Marriott week deposits into II more valuable? Or am I missing something?

Yes it will, as long as you trade to a Non-Marriott resort. Most people value the Marriott resorts and want to restrict their exchanges to them. Pulling that inventory will lower the opportunities to trade into Marriott resorts via weeks.

 

[thinze3]

I see the word 'convert' used a lot herein. If one joins the points system and pay the $595 or whatever, what have you 'converted'? You can still keep your week and stay there. I'm not giving up a deeded week by joining?

Correct, but hey need your inventory, so they are allowing existing owners to join the new system which will be sold as points only.

 

[tombo]

If Marriott effectively exchanges with II to get the high demand weeks, do you think they will be able to swap a week for a week or will they have to deposit shoulder weeks with a total point value equal to the high demand weel?

Marriott dictates to II what it will do. They might have agreed to 2 shoulder weeks in to take one prime week out, they might have just said a comparable week, but II can't require Marriott to do anything. II needs to keep Marriott inventory in the system for exchange to prevent a lot of II members (Marriott and non Mariott II members) from giving up their memberships. So Marriott explains to II how the new system will work and II has to accept it.

Marriott doesn't need II since Marriott now has it's own internal points exchange system, but II does need access to Marriott inventory. With DVC gone Marriott is II's only 300 pound gorilla.

 

[winger]

Wow! ...

Can we please put a lid on the comments about owners who might join this new system being "crazy" or "stupid" or "ripped-off?" At least for a week maybe while we all figure it out? I know, I know, this thing won't work for everyone. But it will definitely work for some, and it's very aggravating to see that the old TUG mentality of insulting folks who might find value in a Marriott-direct product is already here in this thread not even twenty-four hours after rollout. I'm worried that with so many TUGgers not in favor of the points system, TUG is going to be a place that won't feel very hospitable to the few of us who might be able to make points work. Quite honestly, without TUG I wouldn't have nearly the level of knowledge it takes to make Marriott timeshares work to their best advantage, and I'd hate to be made to feel that I'm no longer welcome here if I choose points. Thanks for at least considering someone else's opinion.

Sue, I second your request and thoughts.

How can one be objective if all there is in the family is negativity??? I get your point.

Actually, I will be evaluating for a few weeks before I decide but I may actually switch due to the fees saved. I normally turn a week into pts and/or exchange through II. In my approx 14+ years of timesharing, we have mainly been exchanging. The same going fwd... So, this new pts system may be the way we go. But one thing granted, the 'tiger trade' concept is definitely hard to see in this new system.

 

[wuv pooh]

I see the word 'convert' used a lot herein. If one joins the points system and pay the $595 or whatever, what have you 'converted'? You can still keep your week and stay there. I'm not giving up a deeded week by joining?

The Marriott word is enroll.

If you choose to enroll you maintain all your current rights, and add the option to access the new Marriott internal trade system by opting to convert to the new points.

If you choose not to enroll you maintain all your current rights, but will not have access to the new Marriott internal trade system.

You can currently enroll for a small fee that is offset by 800 points in the new system.

It is unclear under what terms you will be allowed to enroll in the future if you do not take advantage of the current offer.

 

[joyzilli]

Depositing with II vs. banking points

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtsieAng
If I exchange my home resort week for points one year, and save the points to be able to book 2 weeks at my home resort the following year, (say I wanted to bring my children/friends with me for a week) I would need to pay the higher point value........Not good!

Edited to add: Of course, I would not have enough points to book a week at my home resort the following year, because Marriott shorted me in my point allotment. Sigh!

Why not deposit your week in II then you can use that week to make a reservation the following year at your home resort. You have that option as long as you are a weeks owner. In addition, your exchange fee to do that is included in the new club fee of $165. The point is you don't have to exchange your week for points if it isn't to your advantage to do it.


Just Some Thoughts:

I own Gold, OV, at Aruba Surf Club and have been allotted 3075 points. If I decide to join the program and bank one yrs. points to allow me to get an additional room the following year at my home resort, it seems that if I downgrade to the Garden View, then I would have enough points. As I see it, if I don't bank the week, and do the trade through II, there is no guarantee anyway that I would get Oceanview (what I currently own) and that, most likely, I would get Garden View (as an exchanger). So in this case it seems to be the same whether banking the points or depositing with II.

Am I correct in thinking this way?

 

[ArtsieAng]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtsieAng
If I exchange my home resort week for points one year, and save the points to be able to book 2 weeks at my home resort the following year, (say I wanted to bring my children/friends with me for a week) I would need to pay the higher point value........Not good!

Edited to add: Of course, I would not have enough points to book a week at my home resort the following year, because Marriott shorted me in my point allotment. Sigh!

Why not deposit your week in II then you can use that week to make a reservation the following year at your home resort. You have that option as long as you are a weeks owner. In addition, your exchange fee to do that is included in the new club fee of $165. The point is you don't have to exchange your week for points if it isn't to your advantage to do it.


Just Some Thoughts:

I own Gold, OV, at Aruba Surf Club and have been allotted 3075 points. If I decide to join the program and bank one yrs. points to allow me to get an additional room the following year at my home resort, it seems that if I downgrade to the Garden View, then I would have enough points. As I see it, if I don't bank the week, and do the trade through II, there is no guarantee anyway that I would get Oceanview (what I currently own) and that, most likely, I would get Garden View (as an exchanger). So in this case it seems to be the same whether banking the points or depositing with II.

Am I correct in thinking this way?

Yes, If you own OF, or OV and are willing to down grade your view, or if you own Platinum Plus, and are willing to downgrade your week, then you would have enough points to book directly with Marriott. Of course, if you are a GV owner, that would not be the case, you would be forced to try and get that week through II........In a way tho, isn't this showing us exactly how the new points system is downgrading what we all currently own?

 

[tombo]

Just Some Thoughts:

I own Gold, OV, at Aruba Surf Club and have been allotted 3075 points. If I decide to join the program and bank one yrs. points to allow me to get an additional room the following year at my home resort, it seems that if I downgrade to the Garden View, then I would have enough points. As I see it, if I don't bank the week, and do the trade through II, there is no guarantee anyway that I would get Oceanview (what I currently own) and that, most likely, I would get Garden View (as an exchanger). So in this case it seems to be the same whether banking the points or depositing with II.

Am I correct in thinking this way?

Sure, you can make it work that way but it isn't an equitable exchange for you. If you give marriott your Oceanview week at Aruba, they should give you enough points to reserve your Oceanview week the following year. This year Marriott will get enough points from someone staying in your week that they can pay you the same number of points back next year. If they give you credit for less points than they receive they are skimming points off fo the top to the detriment of owners.

Marriott never said in the past well if you deposit an Oceanview week this year we will let you exchange for a garden view next year, but not an Oceanview like you deposited. Or if you deposit a platinum week this year you won't be able to exchange it for a platinum week next year unless you pay us more money, agree to stay less than a week, or agree to accept a week in a lesser season. Why is it suddenly OK for them to give you less than what your week costs pointswise when you deposit, but it has become acceptable to charge you full retail when you exchange?

 

[Slakk]

Well I just enrolled my two EOY in the points program. I have one at Aruba Surf Club 2BR Gold OS that is worth 3075 and honestly we plan to use that one every year so I don't really care about it being enrolled but since it cost the same for me to enroll one or both I figured what the heck.

I did confirm St Kitts IS part of this point enrollment and holy smokes my EOY 2 BR Gold OS is worth 4550. We bought it as a trader and I am thrilled with that amount of points in my use year. I can even stay at Aruba Surf Club (our favorite) for a week and have 1000 points left over. For that alone it was a no brainer.

We had looked at a couple of EOY options and I am so glad we bought at St Kitts now.

I guess I am looking at those of us weeks owners as in a better position than the newbie points only, we can have our cake and eat it to. I can stay at my resort in my season, I can trade through II for somewhere else or I can use points.

I cannot imagine spending $20,000 for the value of my EOY. I am definitely signing up for a tour when I get to St Kitts next month. LOL I want to see how they spin points.

 

[PaulN]

I have a Platinum Plus week and was told if I sign into the Destinations program that I would not be guaranteed Presidents week any longer, rather only the points value annually. This seems different that what others have posted.

Additionally, the rep told me there is "no impact to my deed" but she also went on to say that if at some point we sold the unit, we wouldn't be selling our Aruba properties, we would be selling our points value.

This doesn't sound too good to me.