Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[wsrobinson]

After conversion, can you convert the club points to Marriott Hotel Points?

Yes at a conversion rate of 33 to 1.

 

[urple2]

After looking thru 32 pages of posts...it is obvious that mama marriott has us all wacked out!

The bottom line and it won't be ground breaking news is that each of us will have to make a decision based on our own particular situation.

There are some who have a whole lot of money wrapped up in this thing and also maybe have fears of not getting the prime weeks they need for their families vacations.

For me, I got a few grand wrapped up in this and I'm not looking to pump anything more into getting less. In my view, I got my money out of this with some super vacations that I wouldn't have gone to with what they would have cost me.

I look at these timeshares just like a used vehicle... It got me where I needed to get to and must decide whether to pump more money into it, cut it lose or just ride it out till the wheels fall off. I have chosen the latter and maybe it won't be all that bad.

With all the topics discussed, its hard to deny, that where you use to get to with what you had, is gonna cost you more and may not have enough points to where you want to go.

My summit watch, that a studio lock-off portion would get me into aruba... ain't gonna cut it at 2150 points.(at 2150 points I ain't going no where for that matter!)

The discussions have been great and we are lucky as a group to be able to hash this all out but again it will be an individual decision.

Good luck to all!

 

[Frisbeeace]

I don't get this. You lose nothing by joining except for the fee to join which is offset by points.

You save a bundle at $199 each year vs. current fees

You lose money every year in which you take the option to occupy your own resort, trade for MR points (unless you own more than 1 week) or deposit the week with II.

You can quit your annual commitment whenever you want if you hate it.

Are you sure that you can leave the system at any time?

 

[m61376]

They ARE giving out ALL the points they are requiring. But they are spread over ALL owners in that season/group. There is no skimming or non-existent points being asked for. To say they aren't assigning as many points to those periods as they are asking for is an absolutely incorrect statement. It makes it sound somehow underhanded or a value grab when that just isn't the case.

Actually, that is not true at least in some of the resorts. I might understand your point IF Marriott, in fact, average the point requirements for all weeks in a given season, so that you received more points than needed to book some weeks, the same as others cost, and less than some of the weeks.

While I realize you can use your week to book a week at any of the resorts, there are some properties where the point values assigned would not allow an owner to book even a single week in their season if they were booking with points. At the Surf Club, for example, EVERY Plat. week costs more than the point allotment. If I went for 6 days I would barely make it for some weeks, and possibly not even have enough points for others.

That means that I can never trade for anything through the points system that Marriott considers an equivalent property, because I wasn't given a point allotment equivalent to my cost value.

 

[wuv pooh]

You lose money every year in which you take the option to occupy your own resort, trade for MR points (unless you own more than 1 week) or deposit the week with II.

No I don't, and neither will the majority

Lower fee for my current usage pattern:

Current - II - $89
lockoff - $75
2 internal trades - $218
Total = $382

System fee = $165

Are you sure that you can leave the system at any time?

Yes. It is clearly stated in the disclosure document that Marriott or the owner can cancel the contract in every year at their discretion.

 

[scrapngen]

I think the points that were allocated where based on purchase price.

NCV: 3475 points (no where near what they want for a summer week - 4700)

Cost PP to join: 9.2?

3475 * 9.2: $31970

A few thosusand short of what a NCV costs....

Does that math work for any other owner?

Doesn't work where Waiohai fixed 51 week Platinum Plus (obviously purchased at a higher dollar amount from developer) is given the same amount of points as a floating Waiohai Platinum week!!!!! Yes, this is comparing same view to same view.

But the reservation point fee for that 51 week is much higher than any of the float weeks!!

 

[dioxide45]

Again, what is the light? I agree the system sucks, but it is going to be the system going forward. You can join for free/low cost and keep your options open. If you don't join what will happen if II trades dry up? What if Marriott changes the point totals to give people MORE points because they find they made a mistake in the demand? If you opted out will you be able to get back in?

Unless you want to make a statement that Marriott is bad then I don't see the value in closing out your options when no one knows what will happen in the next few years.

I see this a lot in your posts. You seem like a salesman selling on fear. Is that the best way to buy any product? This whole marketing scheme is like a retail TS purchase, buy now or it will be gone tomorrow. We know how that usually works. Call back on 1/1/2011, the same price and offer is on the table.

 

[catharsis]

Down-Sides of Enrolling (NOTHING to do with point valuations )

Everyone,

Several posters keep repeating - "if I enroll but keep requesting my normal week nothing changes."

This is demonstrably untrue

Please note the following consequences of enrolling.

1. voting rights in your HOA go to Marriott, and cannot contractually be used to vote against marriott or dismiss them as managers (IIRC)

2. By enrolling you grant to Marriott the right to change terms and conditions (i.e the contract) in the future at their sole discretion without recourse to you, the owner.

3. (possible) If you reserve a week in the normal way and then wish to deposit that week with II this deposit is done through Marriott's corporate II membership - has anyone ruled out the possibility of Marriott pulling SVN-style bait-and-swithes on NON-POINTS-USING trust members.

4. If you wish to 'request-first' will it be only possible using your own individual II membership which you will have to pay for in addition to the 'club dues' ?

5. Club Dues (unlike II membership, lock-off fees etc. are NOT optional and are required even if you wish only to use your week (I am not certain on this one, but I'm sure someone else can confirm - I seem to recall seeing somewhere during my initial scan that you could lose membership for not paying club fues)

6. If wishing to do external exchanges with II there are no benefits to being in the club and you pay the normal exchange fee.

7.Just a possibiilty - but is it safe to assume that 'internal' week-based exchanges will be possible using the II corporate account ? - will they not instead say 'use points?' - hence the 'marriott internal preference' may only be available to non-trust-members or members who retain their own II membership?

I think the issue of ceding the voting rights, in particular, should give people significant pause before they rush into anything.

 

[RandR]

My 5750 points for a Plat OS 3BR at SurfWatch gets me during the same weeks of my season a Plat 2BR OS at OceanWatch (good example of a similar area/location newer resort) for anywhere between 3175 and 4725 points depending on which week. The 4725 is the highest-demand July 4th holiday, it's 3175 for the earliest/latest weeks in the season, the remaining weeks in the season require 4175. All of those would give me back points which could be banked for the following year or used in the same year for off-season stays of any number of nights. If I didn't enroll in Points, my 3BR SW deposit wouldn't get me anything more than the 2BR at OceanWatch (which would possibly be a gardenview as an exchanger,) considering that this year the SW week is not eligible for an AC if deposited.

Look Tombo, I posted in another thread that I understand what you mean by "skimming" and I'm not thrilled with it either. But the way I figure, it's offset by the impact that this will have on inventory in the Weeks system.

I also posted throughout those months of speculation that I expected points inflation to occur between resorts, I expected that whatever Marriott did they certainly would not be concerned about resale values and would negatively impact them if they could, I expected that the inventory in II would be negatively impacted at least to the extent that Starwood was able to do so. None of those are a surprise. All of them will exist from this point forward regardless of the system you choose.

What IS a surprise is the relatively low enrollment and annual fees (for direct purchases) even considering that Club Dues will probably increase at the rate of m/f. I LOVE the flexibility of the Points system - it's another thing that I posted repeatedly. I said if it was rolled out as an overlay exchange system offering a marriage of DVC's system with Marriott's resorts then "I'd be over the moon." Well, that's what it's rolled out to be - why wouldn't I be happy? Everything that I like about DVC is here: home resort reservations procedures and m/f (although not for new owners who can only buy Points,) flexibility with more or less than 7 night stays, banking and borrowing, instant reservation confirmations ...

I'm still looking at it, haven't committed yet. There are some contract things that I want to be aware of, and certainly the inconsistencies that seem to be happening with SW's point values need to be fixed. (It isn't that 2- and 3-BR units are supposed to be assigned the same values, btw, it's that the system appears to be incorrectly doing that now. They're aware of the problem and looking into it.) But it simply comes down to, Points might work better for me on a consistent basis than Weeks have in the past or will in the future, especially with the Premier Plus advantage.

What works or doesn't work for you may not be the same for somebody else. I'm not implying that you may not understand things enough to see or not see the advantages/disadvantages in your choice. I sure wish I wasn't reading that implication in your words.

Susan, I think what you hit is called the perfect storm. Every category that would have advantages for the new program, you full into. Not a bad position to be in.

The only caveat is that the home resort preference is only if yo stay in your full 3Bd, not if you want to take a 2bd and have something left over. You won't have to worry as much about getting the good inventory first since you will be the highest level.

 

[scrapngen]

I see this a lot in your posts. You seem like a salesman selling on fear. Is that the best way to buy any product? This whole marketing scheme is like a retail TS purchase, buy now or it will be gone tomorrow. We know how that usually works. Call back on 1/1/2011, the same price and offer is on the table.

And if Marriott doesn't like the result by 12/31/10 there might be a better offer and the structure may be changed to entice more owners. Yet those who bought in the first heat will now be locked into whatever they signed, unless they wish to cancel and then try to get back in. But I'll be those new offers will only be for first time buyers into the club......:rofl:

 

[catharsis]

Doesn't work where Waiohai fixed 51 week Platinum Plus (obviously purchased at a higher dollar amount from developer) is given the same amount of points as a floating Waiohai Platinum week!!!!! Yes, this is comparing same view to same view.

But the reservation point fee for that 51 week is much higher than any of the float weeks!!

It does seem a little illogical of Marriott to behave this way - how do they expect to get (scarce fixed-week) inventory from owners such as yourself in order to offer them to other points members at the very high rates you mention?

 

[wuv pooh]

I see this a lot in your posts. You seem like a salesman selling on fear. Is that the best way to buy any product? This whole marketing scheme is like a retail TS purchase, buy now or it will be gone tomorrow. We know how that usually works. Call back on 1/1/2011, the same price and offer is on the table.

Oh Please 90% of the posts on this thread are negative and fear mongering without even the correct facts.

You can do what you want, but if next year or two years from now you have to buy a 1,000 point 'interval' to 'enroll' into the system then you will not be happy.

The point is that no one knows the future. Again, why would you potentially limit your future options when the cost is low and known.

Think of it as Pascals wager. If I am a crank then you lose nothing. If I am not then you potentially exclude yourself from the new system for better or worse.

One thing is clear. The points system is going to be the future. At least in the near term 1-5 years. I am not willing to gamble that it will fail when the ante is so cheap compared to my investment.

 

[Frisbeeace]

No I don't, and neither will the majority

Lower fee for my current usage pattern:

Current - II - $89
lockoff - $75
2 internal trades - $218
Total = $382

System fee = $165
.

Most people have weeks that are weak traders in this system and won't trade them for points even if they join. So, in such case, discard the internal trade cost and you get even if you deposit a lockoff unit but you lose money if your unit does not have the lockoff feature, if you decide to occupy or trade in for MR points. The system is certainly not for most of use but only a minority.

 

[NJDave]

The average number obviously cannot be lower than the minimum value of any one week so 4075 isn't a possible assigned value.

The assigned value for Cypress Harbour Special Season (Plantinum) is lower than the mininmum value of every week in our season.

 

[rsackett]

Again, what is the light? I agree the system sucks, but it is going to be the system going forward. You can join for free/low cost and keep your options open.(For me $1995 is not free/low cost) If you don't join what will happen if II trades dry up? (trade with another company, trade for non-marriott resorts, use my week) What if Marriott changes the point totals to give people MORE points because they find they made a mistake in the demand? (What if Marriott changes the point totals to give people LESS points because they find they made a mistake in the demand?) If you opted out will you be able to get back in? (If you buy in what happens with your voting rights? (Why spend the yearly fees if you plan to use your week at your resort?)
Unless you want to make a statement that Marriott is bad then I don't see the value in closing out your options when no one knows what will happen in the next few years. (Unless you want to make a statement that Marriott is good then I don't see the value in paying out $1995 to buy something of little value NOW when no one knows what will happen in the next few years.)

See my thoughts in RED above.

Ray

 

[wuv pooh]

Most people have weeks that are weak traders in this system and won't trade them for points even if they join. So, in such case, discard the internal trade cost and you get even if you deposit a lockoff unit but you lose money if your unit does not have the lockoff feature, if you decide to occupy or trade in for MR points. The system is certainly not for most of use but only a minority.

You misunderstand the system. You can enroll, reserve your week, deposit it in II, and make a WEEKS trade at no additional charge for internal Marriott exchanges. Just like today only cheaper if you make one trade.

You still have to pay II if you request non-Marriott weeks. Just like today.

Exchange Types: Internal vs. External
There are two types of exchanges, and Interval International is your source for both:

Internal Exchange

What: Exchange your week at your home resort for another week at your home resort that’s in a different season or year. or exchange during your same week, but travel to another Marriott Vacation Club Resort.
Enrolled Owners’ fees for internal exchanges are included in their Club Dues.

 

[winger]

I think the points that were allocated where based on purchase price.

NCV: 3475 points (no where near what they want for a summer week - 4700)

Cost PP to join: 9.2?

3475 * 9.2: $31970

A few thosusand short of what a NCV costs....

Does that math work for any other owner?

sure works for us, MMC Plat 2375 x 9.2 = 21,850

 

[wuv pooh]

See my thoughts in RED above.

Ray

Agree. If you have to enroll resale weeks then you have a decision to make if the ante is worth the investment you have in the system.

 

[gailo]

12 0r 13 month rule

Right now I have 2 resorts that I use the 13 month rule to reserve. If I go to points (unlikely) I would only be able to reserve 12 months out. Does that apply to use of my home resort if I am a "points" owner or will I still get 13 months out ???

 

[Frisbeeace]

You misunderstand the system. You can enroll, reserve your week, deposit it in II, and make a WEEKS trade at no additional charge for internal Marriott exchanges. Just like today only cheaper if you make one trade.

You still have to pay II if you request non-Marriott weeks. Just like today.

I understand the system but I think that internal Marriott exchanges through Interval won't happen anymore. The most desireable, high value weeks, which were already tough to get through Interval will be most likely turned into points in this new system which gives them more trading power as they deserve. So, I don't expect to get any beach, ski, high season Marriott week through II anymore in exchange for my Orlando Platinum week, of which are thousands around. I believe that owners of weaker trading weeks (the majority of us) will have to rely on external II exchanges from now on. Then, I don't put the internal exchange cost in the equation.

 

[ann824]

I am a little concerned about the fact that if you join you get a new interval number and become part of the corporate account. I just wonder what kind of control they will end up with and will normal deposits be treated differently in the corporate account vs the old interval account we all have. It could be that deposits made with the new numbers will end up in a pool for points owners and deposits made with the old interval accounts will not. Will these deposits have the same value in Interval when exchanging.

 

[tombo]

See my thoughts in RED above.

Ray

Resale buyer here too, and I agree with your points 100%.

I am not paying $1995 to get points that won't allow me to rent a week equal to what I deposit using those wonderful points marriott skims from owners on every deposit. Not paying $1995 just because I can still use my home resort and outside II exchanges after converting (I can do that without paying marriott's extortion). Not paying $1995 and giving up my vote to Marriott's trust. Not paying $1995 and conceding that Marriott can change the points it gives, the points it charges, or any other rule they want to change at any time that they feel like doing so. Not paying $1995 to Marriott after they killed my resale value by requiring a payment of at least $2000 to Marriott from anyone I can find to sell my week to if they want to keep the points rights I already paid $1995 to get. Finally I am definetelly NOT paying $1995 to convert to points because Marriott threatened me with the old "If you don't convert right now, you will never get a chance to do it again, and you will forever be sorry." I have heard that at plenty of sales presentations and so far I haven't been sorry one single time. I feel sure this threat will have the same outcome. In the long run I feel confidant that more people who pay the $1995 to convert will have remorse than those of us who refuse to pay. JMO.

 

[DanCali]

The 4075 would represent each weeks share of the total pot of points represented by the season/designation of say "Platinum". Within that designation would be a number of weeks - some worth a low of 4125 up to some worth 4650. Based on that the real number assigned to each owner week would actually fall between 4125 and 4650. Probably on the lower end like 4320 as there tend to be more lower value weeks than higher ones in most groupings. The average number obviously cannot be lower than the minimum value of any one week so 4075 isn't a possible assigned value.

Hope that helps.

John, you keep repeating this even though many posts point to the obvious fact that value is being skmmed by Marriott. Please read those posts...

Vegas platinum is 1-52... every owner got less than what it takes to book what one of those weeks. NCV Platinum average is 3706 - owners got 3475... The list goes onand on. Saying owners get the average of their season if simply FALSE. Most owners got shortchanged even onthis metric.

 

[Dean]

They have corrected my Surfwatch points as well down to the level I suspected would be the case. Also, check your points calculations carefully if you are looking on the online enrollment options as while it calculates my total correctly which includes an EOY even week, it gives me an extra 500 for 2011 when the EOY is not counted.

 

[NJDave]

Yes at a conversion rate of 33 to 1.

Is 33 to 1 a standard conversion rate to Marriott Reward Points? If so, that could a benefit or a detriment of enrolling.

Our unit would get 110,000 today but only 87,450 using a 33:1 ratio.